There’s Ohio State, North Carolina and Syracuse, so

[88ND]

Brian Kelly amassing the longest winning streak in CFB against unranked competition was scoffed at by many here as not being noteworthy.

It was.

Not when his record against top 10 opponents is pathetic and he's winless...yes winless in every major bowl he's coached in no matter his employer.

Helton won a major bowl for Christ sake..
Franklin won a major bowl..

BK...winless in every major bowl and a ridiculously pathetic record against top 10 teams.

Sorry but I can't rally around doing a bare minimum as a job performance

 

[Irishjohn68]

Please provide proof that they attended mass Saturday prior to each game.

It’s funny how you ask for proof of things yet when you are asked to proof something you refuse and make a big stink out of things. Anyway here’s your sign.​

Moving experience​

Former Notre Dame linebacker Wes Pritchett, like so many other products of a program so steeped in nostalgia, was delighted to see Freeman turn back the clock.

“I didn’t realize that they had gotten rid of that,” said Pritchett, one of the stars of the 1988 national championship team. “That was one of the traditions we had when I was at Notre Dame that I thought was pretty special. It was always something that I just associated with game day. I think it’s fantastic they’re bringing it back.”


“The basilica is easy,” he said. “It was getting everybody in the little dorm chapels that was a lot more challenging.”

Going directly from a place of reflection to a field of violence wasn’t a problem for Pritchett.

“That was like part of my burn as I started to psych myself up,” he said. “It would start with church, and I would get God’s blessing. And then on the walk from wherever we had church to the stadium, I would start building myself up to get fired up to play at our best.”

 

[Notre Dame du Lac]

Thank You Irish Beer.

I forgot to add your candy ass to that list

 

[DieHard_Irish]

This guy is off his rocker. Funny, the only 3 posters that took issue with mass are Savvy, Pat, and NIN. All openly liberal lunatics.

Liberal? Please don't further exasperate the ridiculousness of this whole thread by introducing politics into it. Going to mass or not going to mass has nothing to do with being conservative or liberal

 

[Patrirish]

It’s funny how you ask for proof of things yet when you are asked to proof something you refuse and make a big stink out of things. Anyway here’s your sign.​

Moving experience​

Former Notre Dame linebacker Wes Pritchett, like so many other products of a program so steeped in nostalgia, was delighted to see Freeman turn back the clock.

“I didn’t realize that they had gotten rid of that,” said Pritchett, one of the stars of the 1988 national championship team. “That was one of the traditions we had when I was at Notre Dame that I thought was pretty special. It was always something that I just associated with game day. I think it’s fantastic they’re bringing it back.”


“The basilica is easy,” he said. “It was getting everybody in the little dorm chapels that was a lot more challenging.”

Going directly from a place of reflection to a field of violence wasn’t a problem for Pritchett.

“That was like part of my burn as I started to psych myself up,” he said. “It would start with church, and I would get God’s blessing. And then on the walk from wherever we had church to the stadium, I would start building myself up to get fired up to play at our best.”

I provided proof to every statement that I made and NDinNJ CONFIRMED and VERIFIED that proof for every one of my statements.

You must have been self medicating when NDinNJ confirmed/verified every one of my statements.

Are you and the others 100 % positive that attending Mass previously wasn’t on a Friday night before the Saturday game ?

 

[Patrirish]

Not when his record against top 10 opponents is pathetic and he's winless...yes winless in every major bowl he's coached in no matter his employer.

Helton won a major bowl for Christ sake..
Franklin won a major bowl..

BK...winless in every major bowl and a ridiculously pathetic record against top 10 teams.

Sorry but I can't rally around doing a bare minimum as a job performance

So you think that Kelly did nothing to improve the program he inherited ?

How did the pre-Kelly program fare in the regular season and in bowl games

 

[NDinNJ]

Please provide proof that they attended mass Saturday prior to each game.

“I didn’t realize that they had gotten rid of that,” said Pritchett, one of the stars of the 1988 national championship team. “That was one of the traditions we had when I was at Notre Dame that I thought was pretty special. It was always something that I just associated with game day. I think it’s fantastic they’re bringing it back.”

'Calm before the storm' — Marcus Freeman brings back pregame Mass for Notre Dame football

Promoted in December to replace Brian Kelly, Freeman wasted little time in reaching back into the program’s past.

www.ndinsider.com

 

[NDinNJ]

I provided proof to every statement that I made and NDinNJ CONFIRMED and VERIFIED that proof for every one of my statements.

You must have been self medicating when NDinNJ confirmed/verified every one of my statements.

Are you and the others 100 % positive that attending Mass previously wasn’t on a Friday night before the Saturday game ?

This is true. Pat showed me proof of everything he stated on here. He and I may disagree about certain things, but I still consider him a friend.

 

[Irishjohn68]

I provided proof to every statement that I made and NDinNJ CONFIRMED and VERIFIED that proof for every one of my statements.

You must have been self medicating when NDinNJ confirmed/verified every one of my statements.

Are you and the others 100 % positive that attending Mass previously wasn’t on a Friday night before the Saturday game ?

Nope. It was always Sat morning before the game. Saw it many many times. My Dad said the team would attend mass before games back in the 1950’s when he was a student. So yes.
And settle down.

 

[Irishjohn68]

This is true. Pat showed me proof of everything he stated on here. He and I may disagree about certain things, but I still consider him a friend.

Ok good to hear.

 

[Patrirish]

Nope. It was always Sat morning before the game. Saw it many many times. My Dad said the team would attend mass before games back in the 1950’s when he was a student. So yes.
And settle down.

I believe that Holtz himself stated that the team went to mass on the Friday night before the game..

I could be wrong but I don’t believe the team attended mass on Saturday prior to games from 1960-1964.

Were the non-Catholic players mandated to attend mass ?

 

[Patrirish]

This is true. Pat showed me proof of everything he stated on here. He and I may disagree about certain things, but I still consider him a friend.

We need to hold a Jersey lunch or dinner in the next few weeks

 

[NDinNJ]

We need to hold a Jersey lunch or dinner in the next few weeks

Maybe for the USC-ND game 😁

 

[Irishjohn68]

I believe that Holtz himself stated that the team went to mass on the Friday night before the game..

I could be wrong but I don’t believe the team attended mass on Saturday prior to games from 1960-1964.

Were the non-Catholic players mandated to attend mass ?

Back in my Dads day (1956 class) most of the team were Catholic, not all, and he recalled them going to mass the day of f the game. He just passed away so I can’t ask him now.
However in the 1980’s I remember the team always before home games at least, they went to mass Sat morning before games. Gerry Faust and Lou Holtz teams did so. During the Davie/Willingham/Weis years they did also because as a usher I would help out during mass Sat morning.

 

[tbonesays]

Back in my Dads day (1956 class) most of the team were Catholic, not all, and he recalled them going to mass the day of f the game. He just passed away so I can’t ask him now.
However in the 1980’s I remember the team always before home games at least, they went to mass Sat morning before games. Gerry Faust and Lou Holtz teams did so. During the Davie/Willingham/Weis years they did also because as a usher I would help out during mass Sat morning.

At one time all Notre Dame students went to mass every day. Knute Rockne was the sheriff for any of his players caught skipping out.

Is that why he struggled with Army or did the Cadets have the same duty?

 

[Irishjohn68]

At one time all Notre Dame students went to mass every day. Knute Rockne was the sheriff for any of his players caught skipping out.

Is that why he struggled with Army or did the Cadets have the same duty?

From what I know, the Army Cadets had 25 year old men who had already served our country playing football against our 18-21 year old kids. That’s what made winning games against Army that much more special.

 

[88ND]

So you think that Kelly did nothing to improve the program he inherited ?

How did the pre-Kelly program fare in the regular season and in bowl games

Hard to quantify...
Did he do better than Weis, Willingham, Davie?
By what measure?
He definitely did not recruit as well as Weis...

His schedules were certainly more fortuitous...don't you think?
CW had to deal with USC being the benchmark in all of CFB at the time...plus the tough usual suspects of the midwest...
9-3
10-3
3-9
7-6
6-6
CW's Fiesta Bowl game against OSU was definitely more competitive than any major bowl BK coached in.
CW had a top 5 win in his first year....played USC ...coulda, shoulda, woulda beat them...the push happened...


CW did go 3-9...but...

BK went 4-8


He was definitely better than Willingham...

Better than Davie?

possibly...

But..

All three had much tougher schedules than BK especially Davie/CW

Moreover if it wasn't for all that egg on face of CW's contract Brian Kelly does not survive 4-8 season. No way.

He wasn't light years from Charlie Weis...the program he inherited...

BK got an extended stay due to CW...had softer schedules...

Does CW have better records playing BK's schedules? I most certainly think so.

In the end I don't give a shit about them. Old news.

MF is who I care about at present.

 

[88ND]

From what I know, the Army Cadets had 25 year old men who had already served our country playing football against our 18-21 year old kids. That’s what made winning games against Army that much more special.

Not really...

Army and Navy were tough. Very!

Back then most young men had some god damn pride in serving the country.

It was the proper thing to do.

Instead of going to some powerful football school only caring about a stupid Sunday pipe dream that most never realize....
Top talent served the country.

 

[Irishjohn68]

Not really...

Army and Navy were tough. Very!

Back then most young men had some god damn pride in serving the country.

It was the proper thing to do.

Instead of going to some powerful football school only caring about a stupid Sunday pipe dream that most never realize....
Top talent served the country.

So you are agreeing with me?

 

[Irishjohn68]

Weis couldn’t coach himself out of a wet paper bag. How can you say Weis out recruited BK? When you only recruit one side of the ball, offense that’s not good recruiting at all.

Fat Chuck had a USC problem but Fat Chuck also didn’t have a Saban or Dabo problem like BK had.

Fat Chuck left a GD mess for BK were MF walked into a full cupboard.

 

[Golson5]

Weis couldn’t coach himself out of a wet paper bag. How can you say Weis out recruited BK? When you only recruit one side of the ball, offense that’s not good recruiting at all.

Fat Chuck had a USC problem but Fat Chuck also didn’t have a Saban or Dabo problem like BK had.

Fat Chuck left a GD mess for BK were MF walked into a full cupboard.

He left a culture mess but he left BK a lot of talent

 

[88ND]

So you are agreeing with me?

I'm agreeing that the academies were extremely powerful football teams. Not because of an age example you give but rather patriotism if you will.
A top player in high-school WANTED to serve his country rather than chase some pipe dream of playing professionally that for most never gets realized. That was nonsense back then. They wanted to serve. Army and Navy had no trouble getting top talent.

 

[Patrirish]

Hard to quantify...
Did he do better than Weis, Willingham, Davie?
By what measure?
He definitely did not recruit as well as Weis...

His schedules were certainly more fortuitous...don't you think?
CW had to deal with USC being the benchmark in all of CFB at the time...plus the tough usual suspects of the midwest...
9-3
10-3
3-9
7-6
6-6
CW's Fiesta Bowl game against OSU was definitely more competitive than any major bowl BK coached in.
CW had a top 5 win in his first year....played USC ...coulda, shoulda, woulda beat them...the push happened...


CW did go 3-9...but...

BK went 4-8


He was definitely better than Willingham...

Better than Davie?

possibly...

But..

All three had much tougher schedules than BK especially Davie/CW

Moreover if it wasn't for all that egg on face of CW's contract Brian Kelly does not survive 4-8 season. No way.

He wasn't light years from Charlie Weis...the program he inherited...

BK got an extended stay due to CW...had softer schedules...

Does CW have better records playing BK's schedules? I most certainly think so.

In the end I don't give a shit about them. Old news.

MF is who I care about at present.

Better is defined rather succinctly….. by your Won-Loss record.

You and the others can stop the “schedule” B.S. because Kelly’s schedule was set in stone years before he arrived.

Kelly’s mission was to play the teams on a schedule that he didn’t set, and to win those games. He accomplished that mission exceptionally well.

At some point, although it pains you, you have to give the Devil his due !

Get over it, Kelly resurrected and elevated Notre Dame’s football program to lofty heights !

 

[Golson5]

Better is defined rather succinctly….. by your Won-Loss record.

You and the others can stop the “schedule” B.S. because Kelly’s schedule was set in stone years before he arrived.

Kelly’s mission was to play the teams on a schedule that he didn’t set, and to win those games. He accomplished that mission exceptionally well.

At some point, although it pains you, you have to give the Devil his due !

Get over it, Kelly resurrected and elevated Notre Dame’s football program to lofty heights !

Win/loss isn't the end all be all because in college who you play effects that so much.

If a mountain west school goes 12 and 0 and we go 10 and 2 with our schedule, which is more impressive? Which team is better. We are. We play the much tougher schedule

So schedule does matter

Kelly did bring our program back to high respectability and a sustained program. He should get credit for that

 

[88ND]

Weis couldn’t coach himself out of a wet paper bag. How can you say Weis out recruited BK? When you only recruit one side of the ball, offense that’s not good recruiting at all.

Fat Chuck had a USC problem but Fat Chuck also didn’t have a Saban or Dabo problem like BK had.

Fat Chuck left a GD mess for BK were MF walked into a full cupboard.

You sound like a spoiled child with the name calling and it appears you've got some personal vendetta against CW.
"How can you say Weis out recruited BK? When you only recruit one side of the ball, offense that’s not good recruiting at all."
Approximately 80 percent of the starters on the 2012 team were CW players. The major components ON DEFENSE were CW players.
You're just too short sighted and being childish to see that Weis recognized he needed to get better on defense thus recruiting it better. You're forgetting CW wasn't afforded as many chances to right the ship like Brian Kelly did. Does CW continue adding top players on defense that would've made the 2012 unit and beyond even better? We don't know that because he wasn't afforded countless do-overs like BK.
"Fat Chuck had a USC problem but Fat Chuck also didn’t have a Saban or Dabo problem like BK had."
By your metric then..CW had a Pete Carroll problem (yearly)...BK only faced Saban once until the weird Covid year for a whopping total of twice in 12 years. BK faced Dabo twice in the regular season and then twice in the post season.
CW had Caroll yearly and Jim Tressel once and Les Miles once. (The running high version of Miles)
"Fat Chuck left a GD mess for BK were MF walked into a full cupboard."
That's inaccurate and very overstated. CW left BK some very good material especially on defense.
BK, however, left MF a mess alright
Tommy Rees is bad....a QB situation that is average at best and border line poor for an upper echelon program...
How many elite perimeter players did he leave Freeman? You know...the area we lack in yearly that was NEVER addressed by BK. How about all those top defensive linemen he left Freeman? Let me know when you find them.
He did leave him a great Tight End so there's that. (TE always recruits well here)

In no way am I suggesting CW was a great coach but BK can thank CW's bloated buyout for his extended stay...especially after 38 drop backs in a hurricane with shin high water en` route to a 4-8 season.
It's also no coincidence his average record started improving after taking on the yearly 5/6 acc opponents. (2016 aside)

 

[88ND]

Better is defined rather succinctly….. by your Won-Loss record.

You and the others can stop the “schedule” B.S. because Kelly’s schedule was set in stone years before he arrived.

Kelly’s mission was to play the teams on a schedule that he didn’t set, and to win those games. He accomplished that mission exceptionally well.

At some point, although it pains you, you have to give the Devil his due !

Get over it, Kelly resurrected and elevated Notre Dame’s football program to lofty heights !

BK got a couple mulligans because we were on the hook for 900 billion dollars owed to Charlie Weis after his dismissal.

Nobody here said BK made his schedule. He played the schedule he had to play but make no mistake the prior three coaches routinely had tougher schedules.

That said let's not overstate the resurrection by your messiah.
He went 12-1 with most CW players starting...

The BK record
8-5
8-5
12-1
9-4
8-5
10-3
4-8
10-3
12-1
10-2
11-1

Now what do we see here?

Pretty much an 8-4 average record BEFORE the ACC commitment....

Pretty much a 10-2 record AFTER the ACC commitment.

Zero major bowl wins...
Zero playoff wins...
Zero competitive play in either
A 4-8 season
A Brian Van Gorder hiring which might be the worst hire in the history of the program.


Let's not overstate Brian Kelly's tenure

 

[tbonesays]

BK got a couple mulligans because we were on the hook for 900 billion dollars owed to Charlie Weis after his dismissal.

Nobody here said BK made his schedule. He played the schedule he had to play but make no mistake the prior three coaches routinely had tougher schedules.

That said let's not overstate the resurrection by your messiah.
He went 12-1 with most CW players starting...

The BK record
8-5
8-5
12-1
9-4
8-5
10-3
4-8
10-3
12-1
10-2
11-1

Now what do we see here?

Pretty much an 8-4 average record BEFORE the ACC commitment....

Pretty much a 10-2 record AFTER the ACC commitment.

Zero major bowl wins...
Zero playoff wins...
Zero competitive play in either
A 4-8 season
A Brian Van Gorder hiring which might be the worst hire in the history of the program.


Let's not overstate Brian Kelly's tenure

It's a simple as this. LSU could have hired Weis at any time in the last 10 years.

 

[NDinNJ]

You sound like a spoiled child with the name calling and it appears you've got some personal vendetta against CW.
"How can you say Weis out recruited BK? When you only recruit one side of the ball, offense that’s not good recruiting at all."
Approximately 80 percent of the starters on the 2012 team were CW players. The major components ON DEFENSE were CW players.
You're just too short sighted and being childish to see that Weis recognized he needed to get better on defense thus recruiting it better. You're forgetting CW wasn't afforded as many chances to right the ship like Brian Kelly did. Does CW continue adding top players on defense that would've made the 2012 unit and beyond even better? We don't know that because he wasn't afforded countless do-overs like BK.
"Fat Chuck had a USC problem but Fat Chuck also didn’t have a Saban or Dabo problem like BK had."
By your metric then..CW had a Pete Carroll problem (yearly)...BK only faced Saban once until the weird Covid year for a whopping total of twice in 12 years. BK faced Dabo twice in the regular season and then twice in the post season.
CW had Caroll yearly and Jim Tressel once and Les Miles once. (The running high version of Miles)
"Fat Chuck left a GD mess for BK were MF walked into a full cupboard."
That's inaccurate and very overstated. CW left BK some very good material especially on defense.
BK, however, left MF a mess alright
Tommy Rees is bad....a QB situation that is average at best and border line poor for an upper echelon program...
How many elite perimeter players did he leave Freeman? You know...the area we lack in yearly that was NEVER addressed by BK. How about all those top defensive linemen he left Freeman? Let me know when you find them.
He did leave him a great Tight End so there's that. (TE always recruits well here)

In no way am I suggesting CW was a great coach but BK can thank CW's bloated buyout for his extended stay...especially after 38 drop backs in a hurricane with shin high water en` route to a 4-8 season.
It's also no coincidence his average record started improving after taking on the yearly 5/6 acc opponents. (2016 aside)

You forgot to add, that 3-9 season was due to TW leaving the cupboard on the OL and DL completely bare. I remember watching Clausen literally scrambling for his life!

I looked it up, they gave up 58 sacks that year, 24 through the first 4 games. OUCH!!

 

[Patrirish]

BK got a couple mulligans because we were on the hook for 900 billion dollars owed to Charlie Weis after his dismissal.

Nobody here said BK made his schedule. He played the schedule he had to play but make no mistake the prior three coaches routinely had tougher schedules.

That said let's not overstate the resurrection by your messiah.
He went 12-1 with most CW players starting...

The BK record
8-5
8-5
12-1
9-4
8-5
10-3
4-8
10-3
12-1
11-2. 10-2
11-1

Now what do we see here?

Pretty much an 8-4 average record BEFORE the ACC commitment....

Pretty much a 10-2 record AFTER the ACC commitment.

Zero major bowl wins...
Zero playoff wins...
Zero competitive play in either
A 4-8 season
A Brian Van Gorder hiring which might be the worst hire in the history of the program.


Let's not overstate Brian Kelly's tenure

There we’re no mulligans, ND had more than ample funds to pay CW 6.6 million when he was fired.

Notre Dame’s endowmnent in 2009 was 5.52 BILLION and the operating revenue was
$ 808,000,000 so $ 6,600,000 was a drop in the bucket.

You left off a year when Kelly went 11-2, so I added it above.

What we see is the winningest coach in Notre Dame history, a coach who went 54- 9 in his last five years.

How was ND doing for the dozen years before Kelly arrived ?

i‘m no Kelly fan but I am objective, whereas you aren't, all you want to do is denigrate an excellent record.

Get over it !

 

[Patrirish]

Win/loss isn't the end all be all because in college who you play effects that so much.

If a mountain west school goes 12 and 0 and we go 10 and 2 with our schedule, which is more impressive? Which team is better. We are. We play the much tougher schedule

So schedule does matter

Kelly did bring our program back to high respectability and a sustained program. He should get credit for that

WINNING IS THE ONLY METRIC BY WHICH A COACH IS JUDGED ON THE FIELD OF PLAY.

We may despise the manner and timing with regard to Kelly’s departure from ND, but denigrating his record, given what he took over and what he built is sheer folly.

But, he’s moved on and it’s time for everyone on this site to move on !

 

[Golson5]

WINNING IS THE ONLY METRIC BY WHICH A COACH IS JUDGED ON THE FIELD OF PLAY.

We may despise the manner and timing with regard to Kelly’s departure from ND, but denigrating his record, given what he took over and what he built is sheer folly.

But, he’s moved on and it’s time for everyone on this site to move on !

Winning against a weak schedule isnt as impressive as winning against a tough schedule

 

[NDinNJ]

There we’re no mulligans, ND had more than ample funds to pay CW 6.6 million when he was fired.

Notre Dame’s endowmnent in 2009 was 5.52 BILLION and the operating revenue was
$ 808,000,000 so $ 6,600,000 was a drop in the bucket.

You left off a year when Kelly went 11-2, so I added it above.

What we see is the winningest coach in Notre Dame history, a coach who went 54- 9 in his last five years.

How was ND doing for the dozen years before Kelly arrived ?

i‘m no Kelly fan but I am objective, whereas you aren't, all you want to do is denigrate an excellent record.

Get over it !

He had a solid 5 year regular season run, but let's be honest, the schedule was very favorable, he was no better than CW prior to that run, and Jack stepped in and helped him with hiring assistants after the 2016 debacle.

Yes he's the winningest coach at ND, but he is also the coach with the most losses at ND. So he'll be remembered for both, and for not winning a championship.,

 

[Patrirish]

Winning against a weak schedule isnt as impressive as winning against a tough schedule

The schedule was set years before Kelly arrived at ND and Kelly could only play the teams on his schedule.

STOP WHINING ABOUT THE SCHEDULE !

 

[Golson5]

The schedule was set years before Kelly arrived at ND and Kelly could only play the teams on his schedule.

STOP WHINING ABOUT THE SCHEDULE !

I'm not whining nor am I blaming Kelly

Just stating a fact.

 

[Patrirish]

He had a solid 5 year regular season run, but let's be honest, the schedule was very favorable, he was no better than CW prior to that run, and Jack stepped in and helped him with hiring assistants after the 2016 debacle.

Yes he's the winningest coach at ND, but he is also the coach with the most losses at ND. So he'll be remembered for both, and for not winning a championship.,

Nobody has won a championship in 34 years, but Kelly came close twice, that’s undeniable

 

[Patrirish]

going to mass does NOT explain losing to Marshall.

What does ?

 

[Golson5]

Nobody has won a championship in 34 years, but Kelly came close twice, that’s undeniable

Not close. But closer than anyone since 93

 

[Patrirish]

Not close. But closer than anyone since 93

When you play in the final game that will determine the NC, that’s as close as you can get

 

[Golson5]

When you play in the final game that will determine the NC, that’s as close as you can get

No. When you get absolutely destroyed in the game and after the first series everyone knew we didnt have a prayer....that is not close

You can play in a close competitive game, thats actually as close as you can get

 

[NDinNJ]

Nobody has won a championship in 34 years, but Kelly came close twice, that’s undeniable

No one remembers close.