On what proof do you base this statement on? If you are going to blather then you have to back it up with actual proof.
Students who walked out. That will be one of your lifetime mistakes.
- Thread starter pikehead
- Start date
Watch a recent video with Sister Joan Chittister. She explains much better than I or anyone else here could.
No, I want you to explain with actual facts. You brought it up now you back it up.
Duck,
While I am a Catholic , was born into that religion, and follow that religion, I also believe that all
Religion is based upon logic. Even Athiest have a conscience ( a sense of Good and evil, right and wrong ).
If I see a horrendous crime , I am repulsed , as a human being, of the evil in such an act. if I see a person
Perform an act of kindness , I am attracted to the goodness of that act.
Thus, Logic tells me that both good and evil do exist.
I see order in everything that I study and see in nature. The beauty and complexity lead me to logically
Conclude that there is a Supreme Being. Creator with an Orderly mind that humanity can only begin To see.
I am by no means a scientist, but I am fascinated by the study of my major in economics, and as an off shoot of that my investments into biotechnology, Gene therapy, etc. The human body and mind are
A wonderful and very complex orderly creation that the worlds greatest minds are barely scratching the
Surfaces.
Everywhere in Creation there is logic and order which has led human beings from the beginning of
time to logically conclude that there is a Creator and a Supreme Being !
good exists and it is Order. evil Exist and it is disorder !
In short , I believe that all logic leads to some type of religion.
In any case that is where my logic leads me.
While I am a Catholic , was born into that religion, and follow that religion, I also believe that all
Religion is based upon logic. Even Athiest have a conscience ( a sense of Good and evil, right and wrong ).
If I see a horrendous crime , I am repulsed , as a human being, of the evil in such an act. if I see a person
Perform an act of kindness , I am attracted to the goodness of that act.
Thus, Logic tells me that both good and evil do exist.
I see order in everything that I study and see in nature. The beauty and complexity lead me to logically
Conclude that there is a Supreme Being. Creator with an Orderly mind that humanity can only begin To see.
I am by no means a scientist, but I am fascinated by the study of my major in economics, and as an off shoot of that my investments into biotechnology, Gene therapy, etc. The human body and mind are
A wonderful and very complex orderly creation that the worlds greatest minds are barely scratching the
Surfaces.
Everywhere in Creation there is logic and order which has led human beings from the beginning of
time to logically conclude that there is a Creator and a Supreme Being !
good exists and it is Order. evil Exist and it is disorder !
In short , I believe that all logic leads to some type of religion.
In any case that is where my logic leads me.
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I don't understand the logic of your post. If you are saying that Jesus believed in God and your proof is that he allowed himself to be tortured and killed for his cause, I can understand that. The whole mythology surrounding Jesus' birth, death, and resurrection lack logic and common sense.
Toby, I appreciate you have faith and I respect that. You are incorrect, however, when you say that Christianity is based on historical fact. You also seem to confuse the concept of faith and atheism. I don't doubt that many, if not most, people believe in a god of some sort. The fact that so many people believe in a god doesn't make the existence of a god any more or less likely. God either exists or it doesn't. Neither faith nor disbelief change that fact.
There is no scientific proof that God exists but, on the other hand, there is no scientific proof that God doesn't exist. I prefer to stick with the fact that, without any proof of God's existence, that God is just a fictional creation of man to explain the inexplicable and to provide comfort for what we can't know.
Duck,
I explained to you why Logic tells me that there is a Supreme Being who created the Universe. There
Are a few indisputable facts: The World, Universe, and life exist. The question is why and how ?
Even if there were no organized religions, The sense of everything that I see around me, tells me that
There is both a " Master Plan " and a "Master Planner" ! There is far too much order in the Universe to think that it just happened haphazardly ?
As far as the " Mythology " of The events in the life and death of Christ, He did live and was ,at the
Least, a historical person, not a myth. The New Testament is a historical account of the events in the Life of Christ.
Why would all the Apostles lie about the events that they describe as eye witnesses ? Why would they Give up everything they had to follow Jesus ? And why would they suffer persecution and give up their own lives for a Myth ?
Moreover, it was not only Mathew,Mark, Luke, and John, but also the many followers who where also witnesses to the events in the Life of Jesus who were willing to suffer persecution and death for not only their faith in Jesus, but also the events and miracles that they saw with their own eyes.
So in my humble opinion, I think that the life and resurrection of Jesus is based upon a history Written by eye witnesses to those events.
Of course, since none of us were eye witnesses, I accept the New Testament on Faith that the accounts are accurate. It is obvious that you do not ?
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RGC, I respect your faith but I need more than a "sense" that there is a Master Plan and/or Master Planner. The New Testament is not, in fact, a historical account of the events of his life. It was written anywhere from 100 to 300 years after his death and was subsequently modified through the ages. The best historians of the age were primarily Roman and Greek historians. They reference Jesus but there is no mention of any miracles or that he was anything special in that age.
I recommend a great book called Zealot by Reza Aslan. He takes a very deep and academic at life back in Jesus' time and discusses the number of claimed messiahs that were roaming the desert seeking followers. It doesn't completely answer why so many have accepted Jesus as the "true" messiah but it really is a good read.
Duck ,
1. You asked me for logic, and I have given you examples of why my logic leads me to a Supreme Being. You have not given any logical reasons about how the world and life on it came into existence .
2. From my research on the Gospels , they were published from 40 AD to 70 AD.
While the best historians of the age were Greek and Roman historians, the Apostles and earlier Christians Knew and were close to Jesus, while the Greeks and Roman historians were not.
RGC, I have no proof that there is no supreme being, just as I have no proof that there aren't little green people running around on Mars or that there are or are not multiple universes. It is difficult, if not impossible, for science to disprove something. I have no idea how or why the universe came into existence. That is well past my level of intellectual competence.
As to logic, here is my problem. I have studied religion, and Christianity in particular, to be familiar with its inconsistencies and illogic. I don't like sharing that with true believers who I like and respect. There is no benefit to come of such discussions. You find comfort in your faith and I am happy for you for that. If I were successful in causing you to question your faith, that would not benefit either of us as I wish you no ill will. Let's just say that you are I are both comfortable with our beliefs and that we wish one another well.
Can an atheist have such a cause? A sincere question, not a smart ass reponse. After all, with no belief in any higher power or of any thing beyond this life, then this is all there is. What would an athiest believe in to extent of such sacrifice?
Duck:
The book of Daniel is full of the kind of 'logic' you are seeking. I posted here, some may recall, the mathmatics of Daniels prediction as to Jesus's entrence into Jerusalem. There are many such 'facts', that one can make argument for or against or believe/not believe. I know enough not to debate/argue with non believers. But just to let you know, there is such info.
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
