Students To Walk Out During Commencement
- Thread starter irish4life888
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No, the point is that it doesn't mean you love your country any less simply because you choose not act like the fine people in that picture... This is the Colin Kaepernick situation. People overreacting to the extreme because a guy took a knee, rather than standing and it doesn't fit their narrative or agenda... Death threats over taking a knee.
Making a fool of yourself, obscene gestures, being loud and obnoxious and bothersome during the national anthem. That's disrespectful, the same way it would be if you did those things while somebody was talking in front of a group and you were purposely interrupting. Taking a knee is simply, a respectful way of raising awareness to something you're passionate about... A right fought for by men and women who serve your country, voluntarily.
In the same sense, should somebody choose not to participate in an event that promotes LGBTQ rights because they don't believe in them, great. Choosing not to participate in support is your right and is your way of respectful protest.You shouldn't ever be badgered for your lack of support. That said, as soon as you start openly disrespecting those people, just like in the first example, you cross the line.
Would think there would be guidelines for groups that want to protest on any campus just not ND.
They have conservative crap pounded into their heads as well.
In all my years of teaching I have never seen or heard of a student being forced to say the Pledge of Allegiance.
Kaepernick deserves all the middle fingers and obscene gestures that he had coming his way. What do you think, football fans are highly educated somber think tank society club pillars of society? They are the hard working steel workers, miners, mechanics,tradesmen, and waitress of the nation. They do all the heavy lifting. The coward expresses himself by taking a knee and fans are expressing themselves in response. Not supporting the LGBT community or whatever they call themselves is not an option because it is forced down our gullets 24/7 through TV, movies, Hollywood, the music industry, sitcoms, cartoons, comic strips, and the media. There is no escaping it. First it was civil unions. That would make them happy. Then, a short time later it was marriage. That would make them happy. Then, a short time after that it was men pretending to be women using the ladies bathroom. Then, the Bruce Jenner embarrassment was forced on us with this Manning weirdo soon to be chosen "Person of the Year" and probably hosting the ESPYs someday. You want tolerance? Find one single pro-life, traditional marriage, pro law enforcement democrat who would be allowed to speak at their circus aka convention.
Well, then that would mean times have changed. It certainly wasn't voluntary when I was a tot.
So, a person peacefully exercising his Constitutional right to protest deserves that kind of scorn? This is an example of conservative snowflakes getting their knickers in a knot.
Who do I think football fans are? I don't pretend to know every football fan or their profession, but I can tell you this. You'd be hard pressed to find a bigger football fan than I am... Here is my background. I was raised in a half military / half civilian, middle class, conservative family. I did my undergraduate degree at a well respected university and my Masters degree at one of the finest schools in North America. I paid my own way after getting a partial football scholarship by working as many as 60 hours per week as a line cook in a restaurant and tutoring history students on the side, while that taking a full course load. That's how we afforded it and made it work. I went on to be a high school teacher and football coach, before accepting a position as a recruiting coordinator with the school I played at and supplemented my income on the weekends by laboring for my brother who is a stone mason. At 29 I turned down the opportunity to climb the coaching profession and handed in my whistle in exchange for a tough career as an officer and medic in my nation's military. I took a pay cut to do it. I spend a good amount of time in the dirt. We work pretty damn hard most days and I have been twice deployed... What group does this football fan fit into? Because I watched Colin and said "Interesting. That's not what I would do in that situation, but good for him. Now lets get to the game..."
Death threats? Really?
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It is not like a permit is required to provide for Freedom of Expression. There may be a requirement for off-campus groups to be allowed space on campus, but students presumed to have reasons to be there. Would not need any such permit.
I don't want tolerance. I find tolerance hilarious. It basically means you'll allow something you are vehemently against for the sake of keeping the peace. Tolerance is just asking for a build up towards a blowup.
What I want is for you to stop being butt hurt by everything and anything you don't agree with. Who cares if the media forces things down your throat? Are you such a small person that you can't simply ignore the facets of media that you disagree with and focus on those that you do?
There is a great stand up act that asks this question... What happens when you are offended? Nothing. You're just offended for a while, it subsides, and you go back to to your own life.
And people are ignoring the fact that those students are the reason the schools exists. They PAY the University. That's how the school survives, because students pay a shit load of money to attend. If those students want to walk out on the degree they spent 4 years and hundreds of thousands of dollars earning, who friggen cares!?!!
Yep. I'm offended that just about every part of my life is infiltrated and affected by social warriors...from word police to climate "experts". If they would just back off, shut the hell up, and live their lives as they see fit without being an identity, then that would probably be acceptable. But, nope. Not only do I have to tolerate and accept, but I have to do it with a smile. I hope you have this same lecture for the lefties because if you do, they would declare you an enemy of their cause.
Really? So, students just show up at a spot of their choosing and protest? Think the campus police would at least want a heads up.
So far the total walking out is like 75. All for freedom of speech as long as it doesn't infringe on the rights of those not protesting. They paid tuition too.
Paul Browne aka DR Truth as he is known in his former profession. ( NYPD Spokesman) Ewing, What's your opinion. Can you be a Catholic in good standing by being pro choice?
Gotta go to small ones like St Leo's in Floriduh. I got a lot of respect for Marist College in upstate NY. They renounced being a Catholic school. At least they were upfront and said we are better suited being a regular private school. Unfortunately, The Catholic faith is really dwindling in America as a whole. I know here in NYC schools and Churches are closing at a rapid rate. At the end of the day, is college even worth it anymore? Go to school to learn a trade or a vocation.
I'm sure they would. The thing you're missing though is that I'm not directing this to you as someone on the "right". I'm directing it toward you, the individual and "them" the individuals... If we as a society weren't so collectively ****ing soft as to be offended everytime somebody exercised a protected right in a manner we disagreed with, we wouldn't have anywhere close to the societal divisonot we have today... Are gay men knocking on your door trying to kiss you? Are gun enthusiasts knocking on your door pointing a gun at you forcing you to own one?.. That's what forcing something down someone's throat looks like. But television is forcing things upon you? Change the channel man. Turn your TV off and go outside. The world is still a pretty cool place... I'm not tring to tell you how to live, I simply don't buy the argument that you live in a world where you can no longer be yourself because anything and everything is being forced upon you by evil leftists... I'd say the same thing to a leftist saying the same things about those know the right.
As for your arguments against science. That one is tough. Science is a constantly evolving animal. The extents to which scientists can be right or wrong is substantial given that they operate with theory and set out to prove said theory. By the nature of the profession, they'll often spend a lifetime being wrong, in the pursuit of the truth... To those who ignore the merits of science all together, I say this. It's your choice. But I hope you don't drive your car to work everyday, because science created that car. I hope you don't go see a doctor when you're sick, because his or her answers to your problems are deeply 100% scientific. In fact, I encourage those people to no longer post on this message board, because the device you're using to do so is an invention of science.
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Is the pledge of allegiance now "conservative crap"? Wow.They have conservative crap pounded into their heads as well.
You're not sure how everything is being forced upon "us"? Apparently, you know nothing about appeals, court shopping, the ninth circuit, and over ruling the will of the voters. Your thought process is not based on reality. If it was all that easy we probably would never have had a civil war. No prayer in public schools, abortion, zero discipline in schools,safe spaces, violent lefty protests that results in property damage, campus destroying free speech, grown men using ladies bathrooms because they feel it that particular day, illegal immigrants, unchecked immigrants, a media that are first class liars who are supposed to be protecting our interests, judges who go way beyond their job description and make law instead of interpreting and enforcing it. And you think none of this affects everyday life? You think we should look the other way and pretend none of this affects the nation? Come on. People who do that are the same who watch reality shows, get their news from night talk shows and may or may not know who our last 3 presidents were or may or may not know where Canada is at on a map.
Everyone's life experience is different. If all experiences were the same, how boring would that be?
I just can't believe there isn't some sort of notification/approval about a protest on any campus.
And these also aren't realities in your great country?
1. Continued ethnic racism.
2. Mass shootings and illegal gun violence.
3. A immigrant population which continually identifies less and less with Christianity.
4. Work in regions of the country for far less than a liveable wage.
5. Higher rates of spousal and domestic abuse than just about anywhere else civilized?
6. Groups such as the KKK continuing to push agendas of hate.
7. Politicians who are bought a day paid for by a select few billionaires that essentially choose the direction of the nation.
I could go onforever. But this is my point. You clearly have an agenda (your own prerogative) and it seems to be to blame "the other side" for all the issues in society. Where is the look in the mirror and the discussion about the plethora of issues that "your side" could work on?.. What I loved about my relationship with Christianity as I grew up was that Jesus was a leader. He led by example first and foremost. He was compassionate, kind and giving, but most of all, he was forgiving and was the ultimate example of being the bigger person. He didn't point the finger at others wrong doings then stoop to their level for the sake of retribution. He was above that... It's truly sad that most people can't follow that example, especially when we're talking issues that simply require both sides to work together free of the blame game.
Years ago, I saw an interview with Fr. Hesburgh where he talked about giving commencement addresses. He said he talked about the relationship between commitment, competence, and compassion. He said a lot of smart stuff. But the thing that stuck out at me was that he stressed that compassion without competence is pretty much meaningless.
And to an extent, the competency issue is what disappoints me a bit about this particular protest Having the Vice President speaking at Notre Dame is a double whammy for drawing the attention of a national media audience. Its a tremendous opportunity if you are prepared deliver a coherent message coupled with a call to action. From what I've seen, its a well articulated and coherent message that fails to go beyond "marginalization" that's lacking. I'm not marginalizing the idea of marginalization, and I think there's a narrative that could be articulated. But what appears to me to be a poorly articulated message thus far has handed the opportunity to control the protest narrative to various media outlets that have varying agendas, who in turn are reporting about a protest by students with varying agendas.
Experiences vary, but one thing I learned early at ND was that if you want to take the moral high ground, you better be damn well prepared to defend it. Personally, I disagree with Pence on a lot of issues. But I agree with Notre Dame's decision to award him with an honorary degree in recognition of his commitment to live a public life with moral conviction. I think Pence has enough self respect to handle the fact that students are protesting his policies. I think, and hope, that he'll be prepared to respond to whatever happens without taking it personally. I I think he can do it without conceding any moral high ground, especially since protesters don't seem to be doing a competent job of claiming it.
So it seems to me that the consensus here is that people think these students ought to find some other time or place to stage their protest where it won't bother anyone. I just wish they would do a better job of saying whatever it is they have to say. I can't remember how many time I've heard our football players talk to the media and think "Wow, we're doing a great job with these kids." Regardless of whether I agree, I hope I can think the same thing when those who protest end up in front of the camera.
And to an extent, the competency issue is what disappoints me a bit about this particular protest Having the Vice President speaking at Notre Dame is a double whammy for drawing the attention of a national media audience. Its a tremendous opportunity if you are prepared deliver a coherent message coupled with a call to action. From what I've seen, its a well articulated and coherent message that fails to go beyond "marginalization" that's lacking. I'm not marginalizing the idea of marginalization, and I think there's a narrative that could be articulated. But what appears to me to be a poorly articulated message thus far has handed the opportunity to control the protest narrative to various media outlets that have varying agendas, who in turn are reporting about a protest by students with varying agendas.
Experiences vary, but one thing I learned early at ND was that if you want to take the moral high ground, you better be damn well prepared to defend it. Personally, I disagree with Pence on a lot of issues. But I agree with Notre Dame's decision to award him with an honorary degree in recognition of his commitment to live a public life with moral conviction. I think Pence has enough self respect to handle the fact that students are protesting his policies. I think, and hope, that he'll be prepared to respond to whatever happens without taking it personally. I I think he can do it without conceding any moral high ground, especially since protesters don't seem to be doing a competent job of claiming it.
So it seems to me that the consensus here is that people think these students ought to find some other time or place to stage their protest where it won't bother anyone. I just wish they would do a better job of saying whatever it is they have to say. I can't remember how many time I've heard our football players talk to the media and think "Wow, we're doing a great job with these kids." Regardless of whether I agree, I hope I can think the same thing when those who protest end up in front of the camera.
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Both sides work together? Where? On Mars? Tell me where the KKK has any kind of influence in America. Tell me where ethnic racism exists in this country and exactly how it is being used to keep anyone down. You don't know what I do for the good of humanity yet you have presumed that I be the one to look in the mirror. You have just judged me by not following the same standard that you have tried to set upon me. WWJD? I'm pretty sure he would not be thrilled with His Father's creation of traditional marriage being used as a punching bag and I'm sure He weeps with every aborted child and I would boldly presume that He would not be all too happy with Islamic terrorists and their brutal persecution of just about everyone and I would think that He is saddened watching His Father's name disappear with every court decision. Being a Christian does not mean you lay down, say nothing and do nothing, to protect the moral and spiritual values that were created from the very beginning. This past Easter Sunday, our pastor had an armed officer patrol outside the entrances of our church. That's the world the left created in this country and are in complete denial about it. Come, spend some time in Gary, Indiana or Chicago west side or perhaps in Humboldt Park then talk to me about this Klan threat to everyone that you seem to believe is affecting America. Where the heck are you getting your news from? BTW: you are a good guy and I would tailgate with you anytime. This is a discussion, not a yelling match.
Bodizephax
I've posted how many times?
I was just pointing out that conservatives are not the only ones who love our country and salute our flag. I see many U.S flags on liberal front porches. Especially during July 4th our events like 911.
My son wouldn't identify himself as a liberal, but he's strong pro-life Democrat with an excellent moral compass and an active duty Marine. He loves his country and is not afraid to remind his friends back home that he's sacrificing some of his personal freedom so that they can exercise theirs. He is of the absurd opinion that the freedom to express our differences make us stronger than many other countries and that we can handle a little disagreement.
Of course the Democrats will take advantage of every opening they get from Trump. And he is giving them a tsunami of self inflicted wounds. They are like kids in a candy shop, overwhelmed with the choices of issues. But my point is Trump's true vulnerability is his own Republican party not the Democrats. The Republican leadership in Congress will not keep quiet for long if he keeps making the same dumb mistakes over and over. Trump should fear the possibility that the Republican leaders will assert their majority power to elevate Pence if they think Trump is vulnerable. Pence is more like them and more likely to stay on message. In parliamentary governments, it is called a vote of no confidence.
Bodizephax
I've posted how many times?
Awesome. I am sure your son will do great and I pray that he will stay safe! You must be proud !. Semper Fi !
I met interesting people from all over the country and the World while I was in the Marines. We would argue about things all the time. At my first duty station I got into a real good fist with my room mate. We had to stand tall before the Sgnt Major the next day after we got stitched up at the Naval medical clinic. I also had to have surgery on my broken nose--I got hit by a lucky left hook. Anyway, the Sgnt Major chewed us out and wrote us up and had us shake hands. After that my room mate and I went out to the club and got drunk together-- We became good friends.
Sorry for rambling.. I could talk Marine corps storys all day ! And not all violent ! Especially while stationed at Kaneohe Bay !
Not sure how that's relevant to the topic - not do I think that's necessarily an "opinion" question.
My recent experiences with the Catholic Church indicate that being a Catholic " in good standing " is directly related to the amount put in the envelope each week.
It does some seem that way with certain parishes. Cardinal Dolan has this Al Smith dinner with the biggest pro abortion folks on the dais. All for ca$h but then will pen letters in the Catholic New York publication about voting pro life candidates. Ewing, spoken like a true politician. I'll always be a ND fan but definitely not my pop's or grandpa's school anymore.
I'm not trying to speak like a politician at all. Whether a Catholic can be pro-choice and in good standing is not an opinion question but a factual question. Go ask your bishop.
no, it really is not a 'factual' question. You just keep asking it or stating it, because you don't like the answer.
Our God, is not the God of confusion. God said what God meant, and God meant what he said.
You won't get a different answer by repeating the question, or rephrasing the question.
(btw: it is not a Catholic issue, but a pre/post Christian instruction.)
And what the heck is 'in good standing?' with who?
For your last two questions - don't ask me. I didn't ask the "good standing" question.
The Church determines who is in good standing and who isn't. It's not an opinion thing. You either are or you aren't. If the answer is no, then I accept that.
Actually there were a number of students who boycotted graduation when Obama was the speaker. They held a separate graduation ceremony over by the Grotto with Rev. Wilson Miscamble as the speaker.
IIO, I'm an American who worked for a Canadian company with headquarters in Toronto. Had many Canadian employees, and to a person they were smart, talented, exceptionally well educated, and great employees in every respect. I have great fondness for Canada and Canadians, but you have some of the same problems you list as realities in our "great country", as though they are unique to us. Canadian racism towards your aboriginal population is well documented, as is your history of racism towards Chinese. It can be argued that Your Sons of Canada are more active and impactful than our KKK. Your growing immigrant population is likewise identifying less and less with Christianity. I would argue that money is in fact a major problem and undue influence in our political system, but to suggest a few billionaires control the direction of our country is overly simplistic, and Trump's election over the Clinton Machine clearly is at odds with your assertion. Not suggesting Canada is not a great Country and a great success in nearly every metric that defines success, but simply pointing out that some of the problems you cite are not unique to America, albeit on a totally different scale. America is terribly divided at this time, but history suggests that one side will overplay its hand and lose its appeal, and a leader will emerge who will unite all but the fringe on either side. Not unlike Canada electing a conservative agenda in the nineties as the population revolted against tax rates and a growing welfare State, and evolving to the election of young Trudeau this last time around. We are incredibly fortunate to have Canada as a neighbor and ally, and I believe you think the same of us, problems and differences aside.
However, the largest immigrant group here is Latin Americans, and they're overwhelmingly Christian. There are also a lot of Christians among African and Asian immigrants.
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