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Serious Political Question

I linked you to a view of Parliament from alongside the University of Ottawa's campus (where Gael and I went to school) overlooking the Rideau Canal. You'll see all the people skating on it.

The second link is basically the same picture, in the fall, as the leaves begin to change.
 
Taxation is certainly a massive difference. I've said it numerous times. Americans don't really want high quality, universal health care, high quality, federally funded education, and strong social programs... The way we know this is that they don't want to pay anywhere near the taxation we pay to enjoy those federal programs.

Absolutely nothing wrong with that. You can't have your cake and eat it too. As Canadians, for example, we may universally enjoy better, more affordable, healthcare, education, infrastructure, social programs, etc, etc, but we sure do feel it on our paychecks... Because most Canadians were born into that system, however, we're good with it because it's what we know. The same way the majority of Americans tend to prefer inferior social programs if it means more more money in their individual pocket and more perceived freedom to use their money to pursue their individual goals.

The Individual vs the Collective. It has long been the single greatest differentiator between American democracy and the style of democracy practiced by many other first world democratic nations. It's a staple of your unique identity.

To each, their own.

Ontario ,
I partly agree and Party disagree with you. Americans do indeed want top quality health care and education, but there are different solutions to attaining those results.
Please correct me if I am wrong, but I think that Canada and the other countries that have more socialistic system have a more homongenious populating that The USA ?
We not only have large minorities living in poverty in our inner cities, but also millions of illegal
Aliens who flood our emmergency hospitals for all types of free medical care. LBJ's Great. society
Poured billions of dollars into the inner cities for welfare, education, child support, infrastructure,
And housing. Did pouring money into those communities really help ? People are still poor and the Black
Family has been destroyed. Crime, gangs, grugs, and murders continue to rise.
Creating Jobs, I believe , would have been a much better solution ?
From my knowledge of the German Universal health care system, it has been deteriorating as more and more people, first from the East when the wall came down and now with the large influx of Muslim immigrants flooding into Western Europe. I believe that Doctors' fees and hospital charges are capped
And waiting time to see specialist or get needed operations are quite long ?
Before Obama Care our health insurance system was employment based. Once you had
Employment , Health Insurance became part of your compensation package. Once retired, you were
Placed into Medicare and in some cases your employer insurance became part of your private pension,
And became your secondary coverage, if not you had to purchase private secondary insurance.
Poor people were all covered by their individual states Medicaid.
While I think Obama destroyed a relatively good system. I agree with him that all people with
Pre Exisisting conditions had to be covered. I thing that this could and should have been done by the Federal Government ( Here is definately one Federal Program that I would agree with ) through perhaps
Increased funding for State Medicaid ?
I also think that both Doctors and Hospitals are gauging the system with outrageous charges,
Unnecessary visits and procedures? Every doctor that I go to insists on seeking me every three months,
And when I am really sick, I can never get to see my doctor because they are cashing in on the three
Month visit racket.
I think that this 3 month thing has to stop as well as unnecessary procedures and testing ?
 
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There is nothing more annoying than Canadians telling us how we should live or what we're doing wrong.
 
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Ontario ,
I partly agree and Party disagree with you. Americans do indeed want top quality health care and education, but there are different solutions to attaining those results.
Please correct me if I am wrong, but I think that Canada and the other countries that have more socialistic system have a more harmongenious populating that The USA ?
We not only have large minorities living in poverty in our inner cities, but also millions of illegal
Aliens who flood our immergency hospitals for all types of free medical care. LBJ's Great. society
Poured billions of dollars into the inner cities for welfare, education, child support, infrastructure,
And housing. Did pouring money into those communities really help ? People are still poor and the Black
Family has been destroyed. Crime, gangs, grugs, and murders continue to rise.
Creating Jobs, I believe , would have been a much better solution ?
From my knowledge of the German Universal health care system, it has been deteriorating as more and more people, first from the East when the wall came down and now with the large influx of Muslim immigrants flooding into Western Europe. I believe that Doctors' fees and hospital charges are capped
And waiting time to see specialist or get needed operations are quite long ?
Before Obama Care our health insurance system was employment based. Once you had
Employment , Health Insurance became part of your compensation package. Once retired, you were
Placed into Medicare and in some cases your employer insurance became part of your private pension,
And became your secondary coverage, if not you had to purchase private secondary insurance.
Poor people were all covered by their individual states Medicaid.
While I think Obama destroyed a relatively good system. I agree with him that all people with
Pre Exisisting conditions had to be covered. I thing that this could and should have been done by the Federal Government ( Here is definately one Federal Program that I would agree with ) through perhaps
Increased funding for State Medicaid ?
I also think that both Doctors and Hospitals are gauging the system with outrageous charges,
Unnecessary visits and procedures? Every doctor that I go to insists on seeking me every three months,
And when I am really sick, I can never get to see my doctor because they are cashing in on the three
Month visit racket.
I think that this 3 month thing has to stop as well as unnecessary procedures and testing ?
Years ago when we talked about pre-existing conditions, it was in the context of moving from job to job, and switching from one insurance carrier to another. You wanted to make sure people didn't lose coverage that they already had in making that change, lest people felt held hostage in their job by their insurance coverage. The definition or emphasis has changed today, with people who are uninsured moving into an insurance plan, and immediately getting coverage for whatever health issue they may be bringing with them. That's a totally different story, especially if people have the right to be uninsured if they choose.
 
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There is nothing more annoying than Canadians telling us how we should live or what we're doing wrong.

I haven't seen a single Canadian telling you how you should live. Pointing out political differences between two countries is not lecturing, it's simply socializing.

Exporting American democracy through "big stick" Politics (parking an aircraft carrier off somebody's Coast and telling them how to proceed politically) is an American practice, not a Canadian one.
 
Years ago when we talked about pre-existing conditions, it was in the context of moving from job to job, and switching from one insurance carrier to another. You wanted to make sure people didn't lose coverage that they already had in making that change, lest people felt held hostage in their job by their insurance coverage. The definition or emphasis has changed today, with people who are uninsured moving into an insurance plan, and immediately getting coverage for whatever health issue they may be bringing with them. That's a totally different story, especially if people have the right to be uninsured if they choose.

Good point !
 
Most of your posts are more annoying than that. So there's one thing.
I thought his post was very valid and I am pretty sure that there are a more than a few who agree with his thoughts on this subject.
 
Ontario ,
I partly agree and Party disagree with you. Americans do indeed want top quality health care and education, but there are different solutions to attaining those results.
Please correct me if I am wrong, but I think that Canada and the other countries that have more socialistic system have a more harmongenious populating that The USA ?
We not only have large minorities living in poverty in our inner cities, but also millions of illegal
Aliens who flood our immergency hospitals for all types of free medical care. LBJ's Great. society
Poured billions of dollars into the inner cities for welfare, education, child support, infrastructure,
And housing. Did pouring money into those communities really help ? People are still poor and the Black
Family has been destroyed. Crime, gangs, grugs, and murders continue to rise.
Creating Jobs, I believe , would have been a much better solution ?
From my knowledge of the German Universal health care system, it has been deteriorating as more and more people, first from the East when the wall came down and now with the large influx of Muslim immigrants flooding into Western Europe. I believe that Doctors' fees and hospital charges are capped
And waiting time to see specialist or get needed operations are quite long ?
Before Obama Care our health insurance system was employment based. Once you had
Employment , Health Insurance became part of your compensation package. Once retired, you were
Placed into Medicare and in some cases your employer insurance became part of your private pension,
And became your secondary coverage, if not you had to purchase private secondary insurance.
Poor people were all covered by their individual states Medicaid.
While I think Obama destroyed a relatively good system. I agree with him that all people with
Pre Exisisting conditions had to be covered. I thing that this could and should have been done by the Federal Government ( Here is definately one Federal Program that I would agree with ) through perhaps
Increased funding for State Medicaid ?
I also think that both Doctors and Hospitals are gauging the system with outrageous charges,
Unnecessary visits and procedures? Every doctor that I go to insists on seeking me every three months,
And when I am really sick, I can never get to see my doctor because they are cashing in on the three
Month visit racket.
I think that this 3 month thing has to stop as well as unnecessary procedures and testing ?

Rgc,

You make some great points and I agree with many of them entirely.

Something that is important to note is the following... You'll never hear me say "America should do it like Canada does"... Because that's nonsense and not achievable, IMO, given our divergence in that paths we've taken as nations.

I've written at length about why I don't think Canada's Healthcare system would work in the United States due to the unfathomable expense associated with providing truly universal coverage to all Americans, including those with pre-existing conditions. That's especially true at this time with the baby-boomer generation placing an enormous burden on the Healthcare system for the foreseeable future...

You can't go from a country that has poor social systems (a huge part of the inner city problem) to a couple try with strong social systems. It takes generations and, literally, the death of generations and a new mindset, to override the system in place.

Canada took one path. USA took another. Both countries are seeing the benefits and the pitfalls of the directions we have chosen for the past couple hundred years.
 
Rgc,

You make some great points and I agree with many of them entirely.

Something that is important to note is the following... You'll never hear me say "America should do it like Canada does"... Because that's nonsense and not achievable, IMO, given our divergence in that paths we've taken as nations.

I've written at length about why I don't think Canada's Healthcare system would work in the United States due to the unfathomable expense associated with providing truly universal coverage to all Americans, including those with pre-existing conditions. That's especially true at this time with the baby-boomer generation placing an enormous burden on the Healthcare system for the foreseeable future...

You can't go from a country that has poor social systems (a huge part of the inner city problem) to a couple try with strong social systems. It takes generations and, literally, the death of generations and a new mindset, to override the system in place.

Canada took one path. USA took another. Both countries are seeing the benefits and the pitfalls of the directions we have chosen for the past couple hundred years.
Americans won't have the patience for rationed Health Care.
 
Has to be annoying losing all those Hockey games too!

In fairness, the US has be killing us lately at both the World Juniors and on the Women's side of things. Man, y'all are developing some damn good players. Hell, Auston Matthews killed it in his rookie campaign for my Leafs! I could care less that he's American. We're loving him like he's one of ours :)
 
Americans won't have the patience for rationed Health Care.

True... Nor should they be forced too. That's a beautiful facet of democracy... Although, I'm not sure I necessarily agree with the choice of the word "rationed". I get the point you were making though, so there is no point in being "that guy"... I'll simply say that no Canadian waiting for any type of urgent or necessary medical care waits any longer than an American would. But you are correct. There is a waiting list in Canada for elective procedures. No system is close to perfect.
 
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True... Nor should they be forced too. That's a beautiful facet of democracy... Although, I'm not sure I necessarily agree with the choice of the word "rationed". I get the point you were making though, so there is no point in being "that guy"... I'll simply say that no Canadian waiting for any type of urgent or necessary medical care waits any longer than an American would. But you are correct. There is a waiting list in Canada for elective procedures. No system is close to perfect.
I listened to CBC radio when I was at my summer place in BC and people were calling in complaining about having to wait two years for knee surgery etc. My best friend growing up is now teaching medicine at Queens as well as a very senior position in Ontario family health .... he spilled the beans after raiding my Bermuda wine cellar....the picture he painted was rather dire.
 
I don't agree that is the "primary role" of the federal government. I believe the primary role of any government is to provide for the general welfare. We certainly don't need a military 5X the size of any other nation to defend against Mexico and Canada.

Also, this is a big country. EVERYONE pays for something with their taxes that is "against their moral beliefs". I.E., welcome to the club.

Explain " General Welfare " and why do the Feds do it better than the States and Local Communiities ?
" Everyone pays with taxes that are against their moral beliefs "
So very true ! That is why , we should have less taxes and less Federal interference in our lives.
Very little danger of Mexico or Canada attacking us, but if Russia, China, North Korea, or
Iran drops a nuke on us, that is a real danger and a growing possibility ! Peace through Strength !
 
Explain " General Welfare " and why do the Feds do it better than the States and Local Communiities ?
" Everyone pays with taxes that are against their moral beliefs "
So very true ! That is why , we should have less taxes and less Federal interference in our lives.
Very little danger of Mexico or Canada attacking us, but if Russia, China, North Korea, or
Iran drops a nuke on us, that is a real danger and a growing possibility ! Peace through Strength !

General welfare is whatever government the people want. Pollution control, transportation, etc. Take education: the feds would do it better IMO because if we want a meritocracy (which almost everyone agree we should have), then every child should have access to (as much as possible) the same good public schooling. The way it is now, the rich get great public schools and the poor get terrible public schools.

If you want to opt out of things that offend your moral beliefs (say Planned Parenthood), then it is only fair that you allow others to opt out of supporting the military. So, the system we have where we don't get to pick and choose probably makes the most sense.

And while there always is a danger of some foreign power starting a war with us, there is no reason to need such a HUGE frigging military. Really, the amount of money we spend compared to the rest of the world is ridiculous. That excess money (about $300 billion/year) would be better put to use paying off our debt &/or rebuilding our infrastructure.
 
I listened to CBC radio when I was at my summer place in BC and people were calling in complaining about having to wait two years for knee surgery etc. My best friend growing up is now teaching medicine at Queens as well as a very senior position in Ontario family health .... he spilled the beans after raiding my Bermuda wine cellar....the picture he painted was rather dire.

Two years seems extensive, but I'm sure it's happened. I know two family members that recently had knees replaced in Ontario. In both instances the wait was 5-6 months.

In both instances, they were offered the opportunity to have it done privately, much sooner, and declined so as not to pay.

Again, that's an elective procedure. My point is that Canadians live longer than Americans on average and although there are other contributing factors to that number outside of quality of healthcare, you'd expect that a country whose citizens pay sizably more for their healthcare would have much better quality of lives and that would extend to them living longer, which is not the case.
 
General welfare is whatever government the people want. Pollution control, transportation, etc. Take education: the feds would do it better IMO because if we want a meritocracy (which almost everyone agree we should have), then every child should have access to (as much as possible) the same good public schooling. The way it is now, the rich get great public schools and the poor get terrible public schools.

If you want to opt out of things that offend your moral beliefs (say Planned Parenthood), then it is only fair that you allow others to opt out of supporting the military. So, the system we have where we don't get to pick and choose probably makes the most sense.

And while there always is a danger of some foreign power starting a war with us, there is no reason to need such a HUGE frigging military. Really, the amount of money we spend compared to the rest of the world is ridiculous. That excess money (about $300 billion/year) would be better put to use paying off our debt &/or rebuilding our infrastructure.

You take Hamilton's position ( Liberal ) , which gives the Federal Government absolute and unlimited power to do anything and everything they want under the General Welfare Clause. I take the position of Madison and Jefferson on the GeneralWelfare ( Conservative ) . The founding fathers did not want a big powerful Federal Government, that is why they fought against their Mother country and were very reluctant to join the Union. I too value my freedom too much and resent living under an all powerful Federal Government.
The Constitution clearly states that the Federal Government shall provide for the National Defense,
No where does it State any obligation to provide for Planned Parenthood, unless of course, you include it in your General Welfare argument ?
As far as " A hugh frigging army, Don't even try to tell me what it is like to fight when you are undermanned and facing an enemy that greatly outnumbers you. If you think that our military is too big,
Tell that to the guys fighting for us now in troubled spots around the world !
Perhaps, you faced that situation ? If not, I hope that you never have to ?
 
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RGC, I really would like to see America split into two countries. It would cut down on all the political discourse and the Country different. Open borders for the last thirty years coupled with the immigration act in 1965 has changed America for good.
 
RGC, I really would like to see America split into two countries. It would cut down on all the political discourse and the Country different. Open borders for the last thirty years coupled with the immigration act in 1965 has changed America for good.

Harlem,
That thought is certainly very tempting ! My hope is that President Trump can get all his programs
Through Congress and get the economy moving. If he does that , we may break the Blue Wall in a lot of the
Mid Western States. If Trump succeeds, we may very well win our country back?
My one great fear is that time is running out on both North Korea and Iran getting long range
rockets and nuclear weapons. I think that have we two choices either wishful thinking or full scale War !
I watched Condi Rice on Fox last night and she was not very hopeful that we would be able
To negotiate with North Korea ?
On a more pleasant note, How about our Yankees ?
 
Harlem,
That thought is certainly very tempting ! My hope is that President Trump can get all his programs
Through Congress and get the economy moving. If he does that , we may break the Blue Wall in a lot of the
Mid Western States. If Trump succeeds, we may very well win our country back?
My one great fear is that time is running out on both North Korea and Iran getting long range
rockets and nuclear weapons. I think that have we two choices either wishful thinking or full scale War !
I watched Condi Rice on Fox last night and she was not very hopeful that we would be able
To negotiate with North Korea ?
On a more pleasant note, How about our Yankees ?

Your Yankees have been impressive. The backend of that bullpen is just awesome to watch do their thing and Judge has been a spectacle... Worst of all, as the Bronx Bombers have returned to form, my beloved Jays have fallen off. Not only did we lose a pair of All Stars in Encarnacion (whose agent screwed him) and Saunders, but Donaldson and Tulowitski have been out for a month and our two best pitchers, Sanchez and Happy are friggen hurt... Man it's been a rough start.
 
Harlem,
That thought is certainly very tempting ! My hope is that President Trump can get all his programs
Through Congress and get the economy moving. If he does that , we may break the Blue Wall in a lot of the
Mid Western States. If Trump succeeds, we may very well win our country back?
My one great fear is that time is running out on both North Korea and Iran getting long range
rockets and nuclear weapons. I think that have we two choices either wishful thinking or full scale War !
I watched Condi Rice on Fox last night and she was not very hopeful that we would be able
To negotiate with North Korea ?
On a more pleasant note, How about our Yankees ?
I think Kim would rather have his country reduced to rubble than to be seen by his people as capitulating to the US. We are not dealing with a pragmatic rational person.
 
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I think Kim would rather have his country reduced to rubble than to be seen by his people as capitulating to the US. We are not dealing with a pragmatic rational person.

Agree 100 %. I don't think that we can knock out their their rockets without a major attack by them on Seoul
Which will lead to a land war. Such a war in those rugged mountains and hills will be long ,tough, and Very bloody !
 
Your Yankees have been impressive. The backend of that bullpen is just awesome to watch do their thing and Judge has been a spectacle... Worst of all, as the Bronx Bombers have returned to form, my beloved Jays have fallen off. Not only did we lose a pair of All Stars in Encarnacion (whose agent screwed him) and Saunders, but Donaldson and Tulowitski have been out for a month and our two best pitchers, Sanchez and Happy are friggen hurt... Man it's been a rough start.

Ontario,
I really like how my Yanks are looking like the old " Murderous Row " ! I hope that they can keep it up,
But the season has a long way to go !
 
There is no doubt that adopting a universal healthcare system will be difficult, regardless of whether we model it after Canada, the UK, Australia, or any other First World nation. That fact that it will be difficult does not meant that we shouldn't attempt it. Obamacare wasn't the answer and neither will Trumpcare be the answer. The first thing to do is decide, as a nation, whether or not we want universal healthcare. If so, we can then figure out how to structure it and pay for it. If not, then we need to figure out what sort of healthcare system we do want.
 
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There is no doubt that adopting a universal healthcare system will be difficult, regardless of whether we model it after Canada, the UK, Australia, or any other First World nation. That fact that it will be difficult does not meant that we shouldn't attempt it. Obamacare wasn't the answer and neither will Trumpcare be the answer. The first thing to do is decide, as a nation, whether or not we want universal healthcare. If so, we can then figure out how to structure it and pay for it. If not, then we need to figure out what sort of healthcare system we do want.

Hopefully,
The Senate can build on what the House sent them and together they can come up with
A plan that is right for all of us ? It would also be nice if we can get bi partisan support on a really
Good healt care system ?
 
Good healt care system ?

If you want to know why fixing "health care" is so difficult you need only read this article.

From Akron to Youngstown and Canton to Cleveland, as in cities and towns across the country, workers who once walked out of factories at the end of each shift now stream out of hospitals.

While manufacturing employment has fallen nearly 40 percent in northeastern Ohio since 2000, the number of health care jobs in the region has jumped more than 30 percent over the same period. In Akron, the onetime rubber capital of the world, only one of the city’s 10 largest employers still makes tires. Three are hospitals.

If these were doctors and nurses that might be understandable. But they're not.

They're nearly all paper-pushers who contribute exactly zero to actual consumer care.

Doctors-and-administrators.jpg


The problem is that all of these people draw salaries and thus drive up the cost of medical care by ridiculous amounts. In fact last month some 20,000 people were added to the "health care" employment rolls and nearly all of them will never provide one second of actual care to an actual person -- but every one of them has and will massively drive up your health care costs. In fact if the average "administrator" in that group makes $40,000 in the last month alone a whopping $800 million per year before their health insurance and employment tax cost was added to your medical bills and yet not one single person got one minute of additional actual care out of that expense.

Next month there will be another $800 million added on which you will be forced to pay.

The next, and at least as-large problem is found in the continual bleating of hospitals and similar that "Medicare doesn't pay what X costs" as their justification to gouge private parties. But this claim is false; if you look at many of the so-called "non-profits" you can find myriad examples of this being a flat-out lie, and nowhere is it easier to find than in the hospitals' lab sections.

Direct operating costs are usually about 10% of the revenue amounts!

In other words the hospitals are making 1,000% profit in their labs, net-net including all expenses, on balance. That is, Medicare and Medicaid, when you look at the actual operating cost of these labs, is paying a price that approximates cost plus a bit. And oh by the way that's what the law governing Medicare and Medicaid requires. If private parties paid 10% more that would be a rational profit margin.

1,000% more is a******job.

This is why alleged "non-profit" hospital administrators frequently get seven-figure salaries even when they're associated with a university system where the head of said school makes 1/5th to 1/10th as much.

No competitive business can maintain 1,000% net profit margins in any segment of their business for any length of time at all, because as soon as someone figures out that you're making that sort of profit they come in and open a competing business. It will happen every time, simply because the new entrant can undercut the other guy by half on price and still make 500%! There will be dozens of new business entrants within days.

The only way to keep that from happening is to do anti-competitive things, such as conspire with others to fix prices or form "networks" that forcibly lock out competitors.

All of those acts are illegal under law that has stood for more than 100 years yet both State and Federal governments refuse to enforce said laws.

We can solve the "Health Insurance" problem in a literal day by enforcing those laws against everyone in that sector of the economy. But if we do so then the 1,000% profit margins collapse by at least 90% in an afternoon and along with the screwing on the billing end goes a lot of jobs. Health care collapses as a share of the economy from over 19% today back to about 3-4% and this is recognized as the mother and father of all recessions -- because it will be.

That recession won't last long though because with the amount of money that now remains in consumer pockets instead of being stolen through extortionate "health insurance" schemes America becomes the most-competitive place to run a business in the Western World. We would see an enormous influx of firms to the United States beginning within days and it would not be long at all before all of the jobs displaced would be recovered and then some.

If you want an example of what this would look like from the economic point of view have a look at 1920-21.

They scare you with knowingly false claims that you'd have no doctors, nurses or hospitals, and thus would die. This is trivially seen to be a bald-faced lie when one simply looks at the growth of administrators .vs. physicians in medical practice -- the latter actually diagnose and treat persons, the former do not and if nearly all of them disappeared tomorrow there would not be any impact on the number of physicians and nurses -- and thus there would be zero impact on the ability to deliver medical services either.

If you get the force, fraud and extortion out of the medical system at all levels from pharmaceuticals to hospitals to the local imaging center and testing company you'd find that most of those administrators would lose their jobs -- under a competitive market they would produce far less in value than they cost.

Indeed, you only need to look at the quarterly filings for virtually any public company that operates in a competitive market and you will find that SG&A (that's sales, general and administrative expenses) typically runs about 10% of revenue and most of that is G&A. Businesses in a competitive market can't spend more because if they do someone will come in, compete with said firm and destroy it by undercutting their prices.

Really competitive business (e.g. Amazon) have G&A costs of ~2% of revenue! That's how they hammer their competition and how you get better prices -- they keep their costs down.

Now look at any of the health care public firms. Aetna, for example. Their G&A is 23% of revenue, and the only reason they get away with it is that they are protected from competition. In other words they blow 2 and a half times what a business in a competitive market does, and 10 times what Amazon does on administration as a percentage of revenue without fear -- because they can without having their head cut off by a competitor. And oh, by the way, there's plenty of creative accounting too; health-related firms have every reason to understate their actual G&A expense lest the pitchforks and torches come out.

We will never get health care under control nor will it ever be affordable until and unless the underlying issue -- cost -- is addressed. Cost is only addressed through market forces, and that means enforcing the law by hammering every single anti-competitive agreement and practice that these companies engage in.

If we do that the cost of medical care will drop like a stone -- 80 to 90%. There will no longer be a "pre-existing condition" problem because for virtually every situation you will be able to pay cash. For the few where people literally cannot because even when the $90,000 annual cost of treatment is $500 (as is the case for many MS patient drugs if you buy them outside the United States) our "social safety net" can afford $500 -- but not the $90,000 tab today that escalates at 10% or more a year. In the case of people with Type II diabetes the cost of treatment for most of them would drop to an actual zero were they to stop eating carbohydrates other than green vegetables. That sounds like a hard sell given how many people like pasta and pizza unless you explain to the 250 (or 400!) lb diabetic that if they do this not only do they spend zero on meds in addition all their extra weight will come off without being hungry or exercising to death and they won't have a heart attack, stroke or destroy their hips by trying to carry an extra 100+ lbs around either.

What will said Type II diabetic choose if the options are (1) pay for testing strips and medication out of his pocket (albeit at a much lower cost than today) while eating pizza or (2) pay zero for testing strips and drugs because you no longer need either but don't eat pizza? The obvious choice is to eat the steak, forego the pizza and as a result drop both the medication and the extra 100+ lbs while keeping the money you used to spend on meds and testing supplies in your pocket.
 
True... Nor should they be forced too. That's a beautiful facet of democracy... Although, I'm not sure I necessarily agree with the choice of the word "rationed". I get the point you were making though, so there is no point in being "that guy"... I'll simply say that no Canadian waiting for any type of urgent or necessary medical care waits any longer than an American would. But you are correct. There is a waiting list in Canada for elective procedures. No system is close to perfect.

A common argument against single payer is that "you have to wait six months for critical heart surgery!!!". Which just isn't true. And people can always pay for care outside of the system if they so choose. The amount of money we could save for the same care is significant.
 
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It is not clear that we are represented by rational people.
I trust that we would never use nuclear weapons unless LEGITIMATELY threatened or fired upon with the same. I would not trust Kim to have the same approach.
 
I trust that we would never use nuclear weapons unless LEGITIMATELY threatened or fired upon with the same. I would not trust Kim to have the same approach.

I tend to agree, but irrational saber-rattling may be just as dangerous to induce a response from Kim especially when all should wonder about his sanity level. I am not convinced threats are the correct approach against him.
 
If you want to know why fixing "health care" is so difficult you need only read this article.

From Akron to Youngstown and Canton to Cleveland, as in cities and towns across the country, workers who once walked out of factories at the end of each shift now stream out of hospitals.

While manufacturing employment has fallen nearly 40 percent in northeastern Ohio since 2000, the number of health care jobs in the region has jumped more than 30 percent over the same period. In Akron, the onetime rubber capital of the world, only one of the city’s 10 largest employers still makes tires. Three are hospitals.

If these were doctors and nurses that might be understandable. But they're not.

They're nearly all paper-pushers who contribute exactly zero to actual consumer care.

BGI,
Thanks for the info .
 
I tend to agree, but irrational saber-rattling may be just as dangerous to induce a response from Kim especially when all should wonder about his sanity level. I am not convinced threats are the correct approach against him.

Assuming that Kim will be " Induced to respond " , What should we do to be sure that Kim never
has more ability to respond than he already has now ? it seems that he can now do great damage to both
South Korea and Japan right now !
Do we stand idlely by while he develops the ability to actually hit us ?
That is what we did in the 1930' s when Chamberlain negotiated with Hitler for " Peace in our Time."
By wishful thinking and not taking out Hitler earlier, millions upon millions of lives were lost.
We may be seeing history repeat itself ?
 
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Assuming that Kim will be " Induced to respond " , What should we do to be sure that Kim never
has more ability to respond than he already has now ? it seems that he can now do great damage to both
South Korea and Japan right now !
Do we stand idlely by while he develops the ability to actually hit us ?
That is what we did in the 1930' s when Chamberlain negotiated with Hitler for " Peace in our Time."
By wishful thinking and not taking out Hitler earlier, millions upon millions of lives were lost.
We may be seeing history repeat itself ?

RGC, I mean this statement as respect. Ralph, Have you ever seen so much upheaval, vitriol, and political discourse like the last 15 years? Were things ever this bad in your younger years? In my humble opinion, things have really gotten bad since George W until today. How can anything get done in DC without nuclear option or executive orders? I honestly see no end in sight.
 
RGC, I mean this statement as respect. Ralph, Have you ever seen so much upheaval, vitriol, and political discourse like the last 15 years? Were things ever this bad in your younger years? In my humble opinion, things have really gotten bad since George W until today. How can anything get done in DC without nuclear option or executive orders? I honestly see no end in sight.

Harlem,
Things were never this bad. When I grew up in the 1930's we were taught love of country. We loved the freedom and opportunity that this country gave us. We did not feel that we were entitled to anything
That we did not earn.
We admired the rich and successful and had no envy at all. Rather they were our role models.
World War Two came along and we were all united ,rich and poor, Democrats and Republicans. We were
Going to beat any and all enemies.
Korea came along and we "All" served. I had enlisted just before the war started, but those that did not enlist were for the most part drafted.
America began to decline with the 1960's Sol Alinski Radicals, Draft Doggers, and Radical
University Professors. While our Soldiers were dying and bleeding, The Radicals were burning flags
And undermining our fighting men.
Everything went downhill from there, and the 1960's radicals and there disciples controll
The Democratic Party, the mews media, Hollywood, and the whole educational system from Elementary
Schools up through all forms of higher education.
Religion, the constitution, and our moral values are constantly being attacked from the Radical
Left.
In Short, This is not the country that I grew up in, and there has never been so much hate and division as I see today.
Far too many people feel that they are "Entitled " to everything and the Government must
Confiscate the money from the productive members of society to give it to the non productive.
We are on a death spiral as a nation ! Very Sad !
 
I haven't seen a single Canadian telling you how you should live. Pointing out political differences between two countries is not lecturing, it's simply socializing.

Exporting American democracy through "big stick" Politics (parking an aircraft carrier off somebody's Coast and telling them how to proceed politically) is an American practice, not a Canadian one.
Only because the Great White North doesn't have an aircraft carrier and is safely protected under the US umbrella. But be careful because when that NK fat boy fires off his nuke his aim might be a little off and hit Vancouver instead of Seattle.
 
Explain " General Welfare " and why do the Feds do it better than the States and Local Communiities ?
" Everyone pays with taxes that are against their moral beliefs "
So very true ! That is why , we should have less taxes and less Federal interference in our lives.
Very little danger of Mexico or Canada attacking us, but if Russia, China, North Korea, or
Iran drops a nuke on us, that is a real danger and a growing possibility ! Peace through Strength !

Who is this General Welfare you speak of ? Did you serve under his command ?:)

*** I have great respect for you rgc7.. My Grandfather was a Marine. My Dad was a Marine.RIP ! I am the last Marine in my family. I have always been in awe of Korean War Marines. BadA$$ !! Unbelievable brave under unbelievable harsh conditions and vastly outnumbered. You are a Hero ! I am just finishing up a book about Chesty Puller and his time in North Korea. Frozen Chosin ! Unreal ! Hell on Earth ! Semper Fi ! Hundred times over !
 
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I trust that we would never use nuclear weapons unless LEGITIMATELY threatened or fired upon with the same. I would not trust Kim to have the same approach.

Not sure I can trust Kim, nor can I trust Trump. Both seem to be too irrational and trigger happy.

One reason the USA and Soviet Russia never came to blows was that both had leaders and advisors who were smart enough to realize that in a nuclear war both would be reduced to rubble and neither side would win (something neither wanted). The threat was enough to prevent both sides from starting something.
 
I haven't seen a single Canadian telling you how you should live. Pointing out political differences between two countries is not lecturing, it's simply socializing.

Exporting American democracy through "big stick" Politics (parking an aircraft carrier off somebody's Coast and telling them how to proceed politically) is an American practice, not a Canadian one.

How should we proceed in Nkorea ? dropping those missles in syria right or wrong. or doing nothing on going does that help?
 
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