Running Backs

[FriedmanIP]

not a fact because you state it. no one is questioning either players ability. the "fact" is that ohio st was much deeper on the defensive line than at running back and had they lost bosa the impact would have been much less had they lost elliott. citing one game to support your claim is silly. i can play that game. when urban refused to give the ball to elliot against msu they lost the game. both players were great in college and are both great in the nfl. disparaging elliott because you perceive his position to be unimportant is foolish and silly and yet another futile attempt by you to insist you are right in every single discussion. you are incapable of an educated, balanced respectful discussion of anything.

Elliott was still available for that game, and yet he wasn't able to impact it.....largely because of the position he plays.

I'm sorry that you're just wrong, but you ware.
Getting upset about being wrong so often won't help you.

 

[mbd11]

Since Wimbush would be a good RB if he was a RB, I'd recommend using some new wrinkles involving 2 QBs, with both Book and Wimbush on the field. Wimbush could carry it sometimes out of those sets.

 

[FriedmanIP]

idiotic statement. no position is "unimportant" . to believe so reinforces the fact that you possess little if any football knowledge.

Relative to the other positions on the field, yes they are.

If any position is "more important" than any other position, there must be position(s) that are therefore the least important.

When making a relative comparison, the least important position is relatively unimportant.

In this case, RB is one of those positions.

 

[bizzybecknd]

If Georgia had average running backs the game wouldn't have been close. Freshman qb remember that.

Georgia had better backs rushed 45 times and averaged 3.0 yards a carry for a total of 133 yards compared to Bama rushing 39 times and averaging 4.7 yards per carry and 184 yards.

 

[echowaker]

I agree with you on this statement. I don't think a great RB is as important in a spread & shred if you have a QB who can read the keys efficiently. You just need some burners. I think talented RB's are more important for power. This is why Alabama takes the top 5 five star RB's. At an elite level clearly having a great RB even if the offense does not require it is still beneficial. Here is a good example. How many great RB's have come out of Oregon since Jonathan Stewart? Oregon ran amok with blazers but not individuals who could read a play like an Emmitt Smith. They could not even do one cut reads. Because in the spread & shred the QB is making the decision. That is the important thing as being a RB is not just about being fast, making people miss, or running them over. The best like Elliot are patient enough to read the blocks and find the hole. In spread & shred I can be dumber than a Michigan homer. I just have to run to the spot if the QB hands me the ball.

Elliott was still available for that game, and yet he wasn't able to impact it.....largely because of the position he plays.

I'm sorry that you're just wrong, but you ware.
Getting upset about being wrong so often won't help you.

No Einstein he didn't impact the game because they didn't give him the ball. Meyer got torched for it.

 

[echowaker]

Relative to the other positions on the field, yes they are.

If any position is "more important" than any other position, there must be position(s) that are therefore the least important.

When making a relative comparison, the least important position is relatively unimportant.

In this case, RB is one of those positions.

You clearly don't understand the game.

 

[echowaker]

Elliott was still available for that game, and yet he wasn't able to impact it.....largely because of the position he plays.

I'm sorry that you're just wrong, but you ware.
Getting upset about being wrong so often won't help you.

I ve been on this board since 2003 and you are easily the least knowledgeable poster on here since I joined and that's saying something. Time to take advantage of the ignore option. You're not worth the time.

 

[zonairish]

he pissed off another one

 

[Get Nasty]

i've been in education and coaching my entire professional life. its not absolute. some kids just aren't interested for whatever reason. if williams can't see the pot at the end of the rainbow (NFL) not sure what you expect any coach to do. it seems like few here puts ANY burden of responsibility on williams for the current situation.

I agree you won’t get 100% from every player but when you’ve recruited the position so bad and possibly don’t get buy in from your best player that’s not good.

 

[hfhmilkman]

My god, you get dumber with every single post.

In 2016, Ohio State was a Top10 Rushing Offense with ~250 yards/game and 5.5 yards/carry....while making the playoffs.

That's like claiming ND struggled to run the ball in 2017.

Just unbelievable amounts of stupidity from you.

And what happened against Clemson. Thanks for proving my point. In 2016 OSU had a QB and an H back who ran for almost as many yards as the Webber. This worked against weaker teams that did not have a superior defense. It failed against Clemson because Webber could not read a play or make yards after contact. Don't look at stats or you will conclude Navy is the power house running team in all of college football.

 

[hfhmilkman]

A quick comment on NFL's value of RB's. The running game is incredibly important. The reason why the value of individual RB's has gone down is long term value. If you are a crummy team, when you draft example a Barkley 2nd, his value is as high as it will be. The NFL is such a brutal game many RB's are washed up by 28. Yet a QB can easily play deep into his 30ties. Teams are discovering they need multiple RB's which is brutal on us FF types. If you are going to have two, three, or in the case of the Eagles four options, spending a high pick on an individual who might participate in only 30 snaps is not a good value.

Being able to threaten a run action is still an extremely valuable activity. There are very few successful NFL teams that were exclusively pass. My Lions are a perfect example of what happens if you are unable to run. Another good example is the adjustment that the Saints made. They realized that Brees throwing the ball for 5000 yards a year was not working. Now they have great balance. Seahawks offense went into the toilet as soon as they could not run and Atlanta finally became a threat when they discovered a running game.

 

[chitown sot]

The game was over after it was 14-0. The Irish clawed to make it competitive. I never thought we would win especially after smith went down and out also the offense eventually moved the ball but never with consistency. We were not as good on D and we were to inconsistent on O that game.

Another one of BK's finest coached games.

 

[echowaker]

A quick comment on NFL's value of RB's. The running game is incredibly important. The reason why the value of individual RB's has gone down is long term value. If you are a crummy team, when you draft example a Barkley 2nd, his value is as high as it will be. The NFL is such a brutal game many RB's are washed up by 28. Yet a QB can easily play deep into his 30ties. Teams are discovering they need multiple RB's which is brutal on us FF types. If you are going to have two, three, or in the case of the Eagles four options, spending a high pick on an individual who might participate in only 30 snaps is not a good value.

Being able to threaten a run action is still an extremely valuable activity. There are very few successful NFL teams that were exclusively pass. My Lions are a perfect example of what happens if you are unable to run. Another good example is the adjustment that the Saints made. They realized that Brees throwing the ball for 5000 yards a year was not working. Now they have great balance. Seahawks offense went into the toilet as soon as they could not run and Atlanta finally became a threat when they discovered a running game.

excellent post.

 

[echowaker]

Another one of BK's finest coached games.

another well thought out post. you obviously didn't watch the game.

 

[hfhmilkman]

excellent post.

To extend this to college the Michigan boards have talked about why Harbaugh has stockpiled so many RB's. Prior to Kareem Walker transferring I think they had 9. To attack the defense using a hybrid at WLB, O coordinators need multiple threats. In the old days the swiss army knife might have tailback and fullback or in spread it was thunder and lightening. But if you have half a dozen different options from super scat back to massive blocking back who can still catch, you have more options. This is just an extension to what teams are doing at receiver & TE. If you just have one or two TE's, you are limited to their strengths and weakness's. If you have four or five you have a bewildering array of combinations if you have 4-5 RB's, 4 TE's and 5-6 receivers in the rotation. Not possible in the NFL with the smaller roster. You do not have to make your play calling more complicated. You just have a tendency to call the plays to those players strengths and good luck on college on defense attempting to read what the play will be just on personal. The key is diversity and using diversity to take the initiative away from the defense. Maybe no single RB is as important as he used to be. But the RB position is still just as important.

 

[echowaker]

To extend this to college the Michigan boards have talked about why Harbaugh has stockpiled so many RB's. Prior to Kareem Walker transferring I think they had 9. To attack the defense using a hybrid at WLB, O coordinators need multiple threats. In the old days the swiss army knife might have tailback and fullback or in spread it was thunder and lightening. But if you have half a dozen different options from super scat back to massive blocking back who can still catch, you have more options. This is just an extension to what teams are doing at receiver & TE. If you just have one or two TE's, you are limited to their strengths and weakness's. If you have four or five you have a bewildering array of combinations if you have 4-5 RB's, 4 TE's and 5-6 receivers in the rotation. Not possible in the NFL with the smaller roster. You do not have to make your play calling more complicated. You just have a tendency to call the plays to those players strengths and good luck on college on defense attempting to read what the play will be just on personal. The key is diversity and using diversity to take the initiative away from the defense. Maybe no single RB is as important as he used to be. But the RB position is still just as important.

Yep.i've been calling plays for two decades. it is all about identifying and maximizing matchup advantages. the ability to run many different plays from specific personnel packages and formations is huge. if you're predictable in what you do you best have vastly superior personnel to be successful on a consistent basis.

 

[chitown sot]

another well thought out post. you obviously didn't watch the game.

Big Game = BK loss

 

[NDAFArly]

Big Game = BK loss

Can you define big game? Because ND has won a lot of “big games” Under BK.

 

[Pennick4]

I am enjoying the hell out of this thread.
Can't we all get along?

 

[VTND]

I do not understand why everyone is so down on Tony Jones Jr? Personally I think he is the more well rounded back than Williams and can shoulder more of a workload.

 

[hfhmilkman]

I do not understand why everyone is so down on Tony Jones Jr? Personally I think he is the more well rounded back than Williams and can shoulder more of a workload.

I would argue that in a spread it is more important for a RB to be versatile then do one thing well if I do not have a swiss army knife of RB's. The entire point of the spread & shred is your QB is your dynamic runner. If you want a dynamic run, give it to Wimbush in a designed run. Its more important for that RB to know how to block & catch then run. The QB reading the keys will put Tony Jones in a position to succeed.

 

[Buguit]

I ve been on this board since 2003 and you are easily the least knowledgeable poster on here since I joined and that's saying something. Time to take advantage of the ignore option. You're not worth the time.

Oh .. you've been on this board since 2003 ... ??? ..... you must know everything .... what a rationale .... LOL!

 

[chitown sot]

Oh .. you've been on this board since 2003 ... ??? ..... you must know everything .... what a rationale .... LOL!

Oh he thinks he knows everything, just ask him. OL blockhead of msu

 

[echowaker]

Oh he thinks he knows everything, just ask him. OL blockhead of msu

says the board speed bag.... oh, sorry that's a boxing analogy. forgot that your are not very knowledgeable about anything.

 

[Buguit]

says the board speed bag.... oh, sorry that's a boxing analogy. forgot that your are not very knowledgeable about anything.

This is 99% of his responses .... meathead .... DUH!

 

[Buguit]

Oh he thinks he knows everything, just ask him. OL blockhead of msu

When I see a thread that is 4 pages long I can pretty much count on it being a pissing contest with him .... standard

 

[cavanaugh208]

When I see a thread that is 4 pages long I can pretty much count on it being a pissing contest with him .... standard

Hey LIAR...I recall a post of yours about a year ago: "I never come on this site and call anyone out. I only come here to defend myself from someone looking to pick a fight." yet..here you are calling echo out. He is really in your head. And as far as "pissing" contests, how many threads do you post on where numerous posters aren't calling you an asshole. Not many, because you are a true POS,an arrogant, ignorant moron. Echo has forgotten more about football than you will ever know. Shows how stupid you really are. Not that the majority on this board don't already know that.

 

[echowaker]

Hey LIAR...I recall a post of yours about a year ago: "I never come on this site and call anyone out. I only come here to defend myself from someone looking to pick a fight." yet..here you are calling echo out. He is really in your head. And as far as "pissing" contests, how many threads do you post on where numerous posters aren't calling you an asshole. Not many, because you are a true POS,an arrogant, ignorant moron. Echo has forgotten more about football than you will ever know. Shows how stupid you really are. Not that the majority on this board don't already know that.

i put him on ignore a long time ago. he's certainly not worth my time. " stupid is as stupid does Mrs. Blue " he's a part of that small group that hates kelly, brey, swarbick the administration etc. he doesn't know why he hates them though because he's woefully uninformed on the workings of athletics at the major college level. he chooses to be impotent on the subject.

 

[Buguit]

Hey LIAR...I recall a post of yours about a year ago: "I never come on this site and call anyone out. I only come here to defend myself from someone looking to pick a fight." yet..here you are calling echo out. He is really in your head. And as far as "pissing" contests, how many threads do you post on where numerous posters aren't calling you an asshole. Not many, because you are a true POS,an arrogant, ignorant moron. Echo has forgotten more about football than you will ever know. Shows how stupid you really are. Not that the majority on this board don't already know that.

Those guys have been following me around FOREVER ... and all they do is argue without EVER making lucid point ... lucid .... look it up ...LOL!

Oh yeah .... he's in my head .... every time I look here he's arguing with somebody else ... I don't always respond to every dumb thing he says but sometimes it's sooo stupid

Look at all that swearing ... tsk tsk tsk .... who is in your head angry dumb guy? ... Been out out of the country lately ... and it's Friday! ... guess you'll be going to the strip club tonight ......LOL!

 

[Buguit]

i put him on ignore a long time ago. he's certainly not worth my time. " stupid is as stupid does Mrs. Blue " he's a part of that small group that hates kelly, brey, swarbick the administration etc. he doesn't know why he hates them though because he's woefully uninformed on the workings of athletics at the major college level. he chooses to be impotent on the subject.

Your comprehension skills are elementary at best ... I explained it so many time and not only can you not understand anything ...or not remember anything .... worse ... you remember everything wrong

I would love Brey as an assistant ... which is what he is and always will be .... Swarbick is good as a lawyer ... well ... maybe I hate him ... he represents most things despicable ... Love his association with the Gymnastics scandal .... money and connections can truly get you overlooked .. And the fact that Kelly is an idiot coach sometimes is not good if you're an ND fan

Maybe you should give us all your resume again ... starting with how many times you've posted ... that will impress everyone and conclusively make you correct .... LOL!

Every fan base has it's idiots and clueless homers .... the clown show represents that in spades

 

[cavanaugh208]

Your comprehension skills are elementary at best ... I explained it so many time and not only can you not understand anything ...or not remember anything .... worse ... you remember everything wrong

I would love Brey as an assistant ... which is what he is and always will be .... Swarbick is good as a lawyer ... well ... maybe I hate him ... he represents most things despicable ... Love his association with the Gymnastics scandal .... money and connections can truly get you overlooked .. And the fact that Kelly is an idiot coach sometimes is not good if you're an ND fan

Maybe you should give us all your resume again ... starting with how many times you've posted ... that will impress everyone and conclusively make you correct .... LOL!

Every fan base has it's idiots and clueless homers .... the clown show represents that in spades

OMG, you can't be that stupid. Hey moron, look at the first line of his statement. HE HAS YOU ON IGNORE! That means he doesn't see your response. Yea right, Echo isn't in your head to much is he. He owns your ass. Answering a guy who is ignoring you!!!! LMAO. I bet you are sitting in your basement banging on the keyboard shouting, "If I hit the keys hard enough he will hear me!" You are correct, every fan base has its idiots. No one would know better than you. And you get pissed when people call you a jackass. What a loon. Go get some help.

 

[Buguit]

OMG, you can't be that stupid. Hey moron, look at the first line of his statement. HE HAS YOU ON IGNORE! That means he doesn't see your response. Yea right, Echo isn't in your head to much is he. He owns your ass. Answering a guy who is ignoring you!!!! LMAO. I bet you are sitting in your basement banging on the keyboard shouting, "If I hit the keys hard enough he will hear me!" You are correct, every fan base has its idiots. No one would know better than you. And you get pissed when people call you a jackass. What a loon. Go get some help.

Stupid?? ... How ironic you would think that him directly responding to my posts to other posters is ignoring me .... not surprised though .... LOL!

Stay classy

 

[Zorich 88]

Can you define big game? Because ND has won a lot of “big games” Under BK.

Beating michigan week one as of right now, is a BIG game. If michigan ends up having a 4-5 loss season then the win is not as big.

The only big game Kelly has won is at Norman. Sooners ended the season 10-3 but really not a landmark season. Still a good win for BK. Outside of that BK has more BIG loses than BIG wins.

 

[NDAFArly]

Beating michigan week one as of right now, is a BIG game. If michigan ends up having a 4-5 loss season then the win is not as big.

The only big game Kelly has won is at Norman. Sooners ended the season 10-3 but really not a landmark season. Still a good win for BK. Outside of that BK has more BIG loses than BIG wins.

So you aren’t saying a big game is how big it was at the time, but how good the team was at the end of the season? So beating an undefeated Michigan (‘12 & ‘14) team isn’t big, if they finish with 3-4 losses, regardless if it was a big game going into it? We have to wait until after the season to decide if it was a big game? That makes no sense?
But if so:

MSU on the road that who was a 10 win team?
Beating a 13-1 Rose Bowl champ MSU, giving them their only loss?
Beating 11 win USC?
Beating 10 win Stanford team?
Beating USC in LA to finish 12-0?

 

[cavanaugh208]

Stupid?? ... How ironic you would think that him directly responding to my posts to other posters is ignoring me .... not surprised though .... LOL!

Stay classy

DIRECTLY RESPONDING TO MY POSTS TO OTHER POSTERS! Ok, moron. Show me one post where he is directly responding to one of your posts. Please, show us? You cn't because it doesn't exist. You are an idiot...and a liar.

 

[NDAFArly]

DIRECTLY RESPONDING TO MY POSTS TO OTHER POSTERS! Ok, moron. Show me one post where he is directly responding to one of your posts. Please, show us? You cn't because it doesn't exist. You are an idiot...and a liar.

Who you talking to? I have so many people on ignore I can’t see about 75% of this thread?

 

[cavanaugh208]

Who you talking to? I have so many people on ignore I can’t see about 75% of this thread?

LOL! The doucheBUG!! You have him on ignore as well. In fact, I think you set a website record. You put him on ignore in 24 hrs!! It was on the Big ten thread. You are a smart man. I would guess the over/under is 100 people who have that asshat on ignore.

 

[Zorich 88]

So you aren’t saying a big game is how big it was at the time, but how good the team was at the end of the season? So beating an undefeated Michigan (‘12 & ‘14) team isn’t big, if they finish with 3-4 losses, regardless if it was a big game going into it? We have to wait until after the season to decide if it was a big game? That makes no sense?
But if so:

MSU on the road that who was a 10 win team?
Beating a 13-1 Rose Bowl champ MSU, giving them their only loss?
Beating 11 win USC?
Beating 10 win Stanford team?
Beating USC in LA to finish 12-0?

Big games Kelly lost:
1. BCS Championship
2. FSU 2014
3. Clemson 2015
4. Stanford 2015
5. OSU bowl game 2015
6. Georgia 2017
7. Miami 2017
8. Stanford 2017

These are the big games/program changing games that Kelly lost. These games were games that if ND won they could be a program changer. The games you listed did nothing but add a win to the record. Meaning, if ND beats Clemson or FSU, it could have been them playing for a championship. 2012 Stanford and SC were not top elite teams like FSU or Clemson. At least win half of these games and ND would have a much better national outlook.

 

[NDAFArly]

Big games Kelly lost:
1. BCS Championship
2. FSU 2014
3. Clemson 2015
4. Stanford 2015
5. OSU bowl game 2015
6. Georgia 2017
7. Miami 2017
8. Stanford 2017

These are the big games/program changing games that Kelly lost. These games were games that if ND won they could be a program changer. The games you listed did nothing but add a win to the record. Meaning, if ND beats Clemson or FSU, it could have been them playing for a championship. 2012 Stanford and SC were not top elite teams like FSU or Clemson. At least win half of these games and ND would have a much better national outlook.

ND beat FSU.
If you are judging a coach fairly by how he performed, ND beat FSU in 2014.

 

[echowaker]

Big games Kelly lost:
1. BCS Championship
2. FSU 2014
3. Clemson 2015
4. Stanford 2015
5. OSU bowl game 2015
6. Georgia 2017
7. Miami 2017
8. Stanford 2017

These are the big games/program changing games that Kelly lost. These games were games that if ND won they could be a program changer. The games you listed did nothing but add a win to the record. Meaning, if ND beats Clemson or FSU, it could have been them playing for a championship. 2012 Stanford and SC were not top elite teams like FSU or Clemson. At least win half of these games and ND would have a much better national outlook.

Did kelly lose them or did notre dame lose them ?