Riley Out Rest of Spring

[Golson5]

You’re a liar, that’s not what I said. You said they were LOADED with talent and I said they had limited talent.

Stop lying in an effort to support your false narrative !

Here’s the roster for 2010, the one that BK inherited

You said it was LOADED with talent

Start with the QB and identify all the talent for us, especially on defense.

Player	Class	Pos	Summar
Player	Class	Pos	Summary
Over 20 players on that roster went on to play in the NFL with multiple 1st rd picks and 2 HOFers
Dayne Crist*	JR	QB	174 Cmp, 294 Att, 2033 Yds, 15 TD
Tommy Rees	FR	QB	100 Cmp, 164 Att, 1106 Yds, 12 TD
Luke Massa	FR	QB
Nate Montana	JR	QB	9 Cmp, 18 Att, 116 Yds, 0 TD
Armando Allen*	SR	RB	107 Att, 514 Yds, 4.8 Avg
Patrick Coughlin	SR	RB
Cierre Wood	SO	RB	119 Att, 603 Yds, 5.1 Avg
Robert Hughes	SR	RB	68 Att, 300 Yds, 4.4 Avg
Jonas Gray	JR	RB	20 Att, 100 Yds, 5.0 Avg
Theo Riddick*	SO	WR	40 Rec, 414 Yds, 10.4 Avg
Michael Floyd*	JR	WR	79 Rec, 1025 Yds, 13.0 Avg
T.J. Jones*	FR	WR	23 Rec, 306 Yds, 13.3 Avg
T.J. Jones*	FR	WR	23 Rec, 306 Yds, 13.3 Avg
John Goodman	JR	WR	15 Rec, 146 Yds, 9.7 Avg
Barry Gallup Jr.	SR	WR
Daniel Smith	FR	WR
Robby Toma	SO	WR	14 Rec, 187 Yds, 13.4 Avg
Duval Kamara	SR	WR	11 Rec, 112 Yds, 10.2 Avg
Bennett Jackson	FR	WR
Austin Collinsworth	FR	WR
Tyler Eifert*	SO	TE	27 Rec, 352 Yds, 13.0 Avg
Kyle Rudolph	JR	TE	28 Rec, 328 Yds, 11.7 Avg
Mike Ragone	SR	TE	3 Rec, 32 Yds, 10.7 Avg
Bobby Burger	SR	TE
Braxston Cave*	JR	OL
Zack Martin*	SO	OL
Taylor Dever*		OL
Trevor Robinson*		OL
Chris Stewart*		OL
Jordan Cowart	SO	OL
Matt Romine		OL
David Ruffer	SR	K
Nick Tausch	SO	K
Ethan Johnson*	JR	DL
Kapron Lewis-Moore*	JR	DL
Kerry Neal*	SR	DL
Ian Williams*	SR	DL
Sean Cwynar	JR	DL
Emeka Nwankwo	SR	DL
Kona Schwenke	FR	DL
Tyler Stockton	SO	DL
Hafis Williams	JR	DL
Carlo Calabrese*	SO	LB
Manti Te'o*	SO	LB
Darius Fleming*	JR	LB
Steve Filer	JR	LB
Dan Fox	SO	LB
Anthony McDonald	JR	LB
David Posluszny	JR	LB
Prince Shembo	FR	LB
Brian Smith	SR	LB
Gary Gray*	SR	DB
Zeke Motta*	SO	DB
Harrison Smith*	SR	DB
Darrin Walls*	SR	DB
Michael Garcia	SR	DB
Dan McCarthy	JR	DB
Chris Salvi	SR	DB
Lo Wood	FR	DB

Over 20 players on that team went on to pkay in the NFl. With multiple 1st rders and 2 HOFers

That is a loaded roster that 95% of schools would have wanted

Dont believe me. Like you said I know nothing

Just listen to the NFL. They drafted those guys and pkayed them in the NFL.

Tell them the roster wasnt loaded

 

[Patrirish]

Over 20 players on that team went on to pkay in the NFl. With multiple 1st rders and 2 HOFers

That is a loaded roster that 95% of schools would have wanted

Dont believe me. Like you said I know nothing

Just listen to the NFL. They drafted those guys and pkayed them in the NFL.

Tell them the roster wasnt loaded>.

You’re beyond dumb.

What players did when they were three and four years removed from 2010 is irrelevant

Look at the starters in 2010 and tell me how that team was loaded with talent, it wasn’t

According to you, at the critical position they had mediocre to poor quarterbacks
And they were significantly lacking on the defensive side of the ball

Teams that are loaded with talent don’t go 6-6, but you wouldn’t know that

 

[Golson5]

You’re beyond dumb.

What players did when they were three and four years removed from 2010 is irrelevant

Look at the starters in 2010 and tell me how that team was loaded with talent, it wasn’t

According to you, at the critical position they had mediocre to poor quarterbacks
And they were significantly lacking on the defensive side of the ball

Teams that are loaded with talent don’t go 6-6, but you wouldn’t know that

Team had over 20 players that were on NFL rosters

I'm not saying they were LOADED with talent m the NFL did

Talk to the NFL

And yes teams with poor coaching and a bad culture do go 7 and 6

Out 2016 team is a great example of that. Did you forget that team?

 

[Patrirish]

Team had over 20 players that were on NFL rosters

I'm not saying they were LOADED with talent m the NFL did

Talk to the NFL

And yes teams with poor coaching and a bad culture do go 7 and 6

Out 2016 team is a great example of that. Did you forget that team?

The 2009 team went 6-6, that tells you all you need to know about the level of talent

The 2010 team has to be judged by the starting roster and the performance of the players in 2010, and not by the performance of players in subsequent years.

The NFL drafts in 2012, 2013 and 2014 are irrelevant in terms of the level of play by the team in 2010

 

[Golson5]

The 2009 team went 6-6, that tells you all you need to know about the level of talent

The 2010 team has to be judged by the starting roster and the performance of the players in 2010, and not by the performance of players in subsequent years.

The NFL drafts in 2012, 2013 and 2014 are irrelevant in terms of the level of play by the team in 2010

What was discussed before you butted in was the talent on the roster that BK inherited

He was handed a team loaded with talent but poorly coached and had a bad culture

The NFL told us the amount of talent the team had, not be. Take it up with them. I only report the facts

 

[Patrirish]

What was discussed before you butted in was the talent on the roster that BK inherited

He was handed a team loaded with talent but poorly coached and had a bad culture

The NFL told us the amount of talent the team had, not be. Take it up with them. I only report the facts

The 2010 roster in combination with the 2010 depth chart proves you wrong.

Only 1 player was drafted from the 2010 team by the NFL in the 2011 draft

In the 2012 draft only 3 players on the 2010 team played in the NFL

 

[tbonesays]

2010 Stanford had Andrew Luck as their QB and went 12-1. Their only loss was to Oregon who lost by 3 points to 14-0 Auburn in the championship. I’d take Stanford. Its kind of crazy to think that they might have two titles by now had Harbaugh stayed.

I wasn’t thinking about Okie State in 2021. That does change the math a bit. I still really with they hadn’t lost that game (don’t we all).

Good point, I forgot that Stanford's peaked at the time. We can put them as even money against either of the Ohio State teams.

With Okla St we would have credited Freeman with a win so we should also fault him for the loss.

Kelly never, ever solved the quarterback problem at Notre Dame. It was solved for him at LSU when he arrived. (I'll go as far as to say he created the quarterback problem at ND and lived with it). MF recognizes the deficit that has existed...and he is closing the gap under center. This year will be interesting since Riley is going to be late to the party. But, likewise, the defense is closing the gap too. Freeman has this team within striking distance. This should be a no excuses year.

I don't know if it is a "problem" to be 'solved.' Rather Kelly insisted on a QB centric offense that only works when the QB makes the correct read of the defense followed by a good throw that the WR catches. Not really optimal for ND I think unless we want to have a smaller number of really good seasons where all the ducks line up.

Nonetheless, Kelly-Rees-Denbrock, we may never break out of that philosophy.

What was discussed before you butted in was the talent on the roster that BK inherited

He was handed a team loaded with talent but poorly coached and had a bad culture

The NFL told us the amount of talent the team had, not be. Take it up with them. I only report the facts

Kelly got a lot of talent sans balance. The 2009 roster was much better and BK could have made a lot more sausage out of Clausen to Tate.

 

[john0gaunt]

🍿🍿🍿🍿🍿🍿🍿

 

[Golson5]

The 2010 roster in combination with the 2010 depth chart proves you wrong.

Only 1 player was drafted from the 2010 team by the NFL in the 2011 draft

In the 2012 draft only 3 players on the 2010 team played in the NFL

THE NFL HAS SPOKEN

IT'S OVER THEY MADE THEIR DECISION ALREADY

 

[Patrirish]

THE NFL HAS SPOKEN

IT'S OVER THEY MADE THEIR DECISION ALREADY

Yes, they did, but you didn’t understand what they said.

They only drafted one (1) player from the 2010 team in the 2011 NFL draft and only three players drafted from the 2010 team in the 2012 NFL draft played in the NFL.

Those are the facts, just 4 players from the 2010 team in the two following NFL drafts, played in the NFL.

I guess that’s your definition of “loaded”

 

[Golson5]

Yes, they did, but you didn’t understand what they said.

They only drafted one (1) player from the 2010 team in the 2011 NFL draft and only three players drafted from the 2010 team in the 2012 NFL draft played in the NFL.

Those are the facts, just 4 players from the 2010 team in the two following NFL drafts, played in the NFL.

I guess that’s your definition of “loaded”

My definition of inheriting a loaded roster is being given the talent of over 20 NFL players including multiple 1st rounders and 2 HOFers

The NFL has spoken. There's nothing more we could say. It has already been answered. There's nothing to talk about. They answered the question years ago

 

[Patrirish]

Good point, I forgot that Stanford's peaked at the time. We can put them as even money against either of the Ohio State teams.

With Okla St we would have credited Freeman with a win so we should also fault him for the loss.

I don't know if it is a "problem" to be 'solved.' Rather Kelly insisted on a QB centric offense that only works when the QB makes the correct read of the defense followed by a good throw that the WR catches. Not really optimal for ND I think unless we want to have a smaller number of really good seasons where all the ducks line up.

Nonetheless, Kelly-Rees-Denbrock, we may never break out of that philosophy.

Kelly got a lot of talent sans balance. The 2009 roster was much better and BK could have made a lot more sausage out of Clausen to Tate.

Kelly wasn’t at ND in 2009, 2010 was his first year.

I don’t know that Kelly perceived that he didn’t solve what some perceived to be a QB problem.

Kelly’s offense wasn’t a prototype Pro-style offense, thus he wasn’t looking for pure passer types.

Perhaps the only one to come to ND was Kizer, who rode the bench until an injury made him a starter.

If you are a pure passer type QB, why would you want to come to ND and play for Kelly’s offense

 

[Patrirish]

My definition of inheriting a loaded roster is being given the talent of over 20 NFL players including multiple 1st rounders and 2 HOFers

The NFL has spoken. There's nothing more we could say. It has already been answered. There's nothing to talk about. They answered the question years ago

Your numbers like your thinking are flawed

1 player in the 2011 draft and 3 players in the 2012 draft.
But don’t take my word for it, look it up.

1 player in the 2011 draft and 3 players in the 2012 draft.

 

[Golson5]

Your numbers like your thinking are flawed

1 player in the 2011 draft and 3 players in the 2012 draft.
But don’t take my word for it, look it up.

1 player in the 2011 draft and 3 players in the 2012 draft.

The NFL has spoken. It is over. They decided that over 20 players that BK inherited were NFL worthy.

i didn't say it. They did. Go talk to your owner friends and the Commissioner.

 

[mbd11]

The NFL has spoken. It is over. They decided that over 20 players that BK inherited were NFL worthy.

i didn't say it. They did. Go talk to your owner friends and the Commissioner.

Weis was a good recruiter. Recruiting wasn't the problem with him.

 

[Patrirish]

The NFL has spoken. It is over. They decided that over 20 players that BK inherited were NFL worthy.

i didn't say it. They did. Go talk to your owner friends and the Commissioner.

Nice try, in trying to change the subject.
That’s a tactic that you often use when you’re losing an argument, so I’m used to it
Since you seem to have forgotten the issue, it was about the team that BK inherited in 2010, and not the players in subsequent years.

Only one player from the 2010 team was drafted by the NFL in 2011

And only three players from the 2010 team who were drafted in 2012, played in the NFL.

That’s an irrefutable fact !
Go look it up.

But I’m sure that you’ll keep lying to yourself and everyone else by trying to convince everybody that your position, which isn’t born out by the facts, is representative of the 2010 team.

Since you brought it up, I had dinner with the president of an NFL team last Tuesday night and I’m playing golf with an NFL owner next week. I don’t know the commissioner, but I would certainly like to have dinner and/or play golf with him. Maybe this summer.

 

[Golson5]

Nice try, in trying to change the subject.
That’s a tactic that you often use when you’re losing an argument, so I’m used to it
Since you seem to have forgotten the issue, it was about the team that BK inherited in 2010, and not the players in subsequent years.

Only one player from the 2010 team was drafted by the NFL in 2011

And only three players from the 2010 team who were drafted in 2012, played in the NFL.

That’s an irrefutable fact !
Go look it up.

But I’m sure that you’ll keep lying to yourself and everyone else by trying to convince everybody that your position, which isn’t born out by the facts, is representative of the 2010 team.

Since you brought it up, I had dinner with the president of an NFL team last Tuesday night and I’m playing golf with an NFL owner next week. I don’t know the commissioner, but I would certainly like to have dinner and/or play golf with him. Maybe this summer.

BK inherited a loaded roster. One that had over 20 players play in the NFL. Including multiple 1st rounders and 2 HOFers

Dont listen to me. The NFL spoke on the issue. It's final. The proof is in the NFL history books

i know thats hard for you to deal with.

facts are facts

 

[Drinking The Green Koolaid]

Here is a compilation of ND players who were drafted in the NFL:

List of Notre Dame Fighting Irish in the NFL draft - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I don't have a dog in this fight, but after looking at the list it seems to me BK was given a roster filled with some pretty good players. Maybe not great talent, but certainly some good players and a few really good ones, such as Zack Martin and Harrison Smith. (I assume those are the two HOF players that Golson refers to.) Maybe Weis was unable to coach them up properly, but that doesn't mean BK inherited a team bereft of talent. Certainly it was a better roster than Weis inherited from Willingham.

 

[Patrirish]

BK inherited a loaded roster. One that had over 20 players play in the NFL. Including multiple 1st rounders and 2 HOFers

Dont listen to me. The NFL spoke on the issue. It's final. The proof is in the NFL history books

i know thats hard for you to deal with.

facts are facts

The NFL didn’t speak, they whispered, only1 player in the 2011 draft and only 3 players in the 2012 draft.

Evidently you’re not aware of the difference between being drafted and not being drafted, and signing as an undrafted free agent, proving once again how little you know about football

 

[Golson5]

The NFL didn’t speak, they whispered, only1 player in the 2011 draft and only 3 players in the 2012 draft.

Evidently you’re not aware of the difference between being drafted and not being drafted, and signing as an undrafted free agent, proving once again how little you know about football

Over 20 players in the NFL that he inherited

NFL has spoken. It's in evidence. It's over

 

[tbonesays]

Over 20 players in the NFL that he inherited

NFL has spoken. It's in evidence. It's over

IF the future NFL players were all young when Kelly started in 2010 then he really did not have a great advantage. I have read that the hapless 2007 team had plenty of NFL, if only brand new OL boys could play like NFL draftees.

 

[Patrirish]

Over 20 players in the NFL that he inherited

NFL has spoken. It's in evidence. It's over

Then why didn’t every one of them start in 2010 ?

Answer: Because they weren’t that good in 2010.

Only 1 player on the 2010 team drafted in 2011 and only 3 players on the 2010 team drafted in 2012 played in the NFL

You know nothing about football

 

[Golson5]

Then why didn’t every one of them start in 2010 ?

Answer: Because they weren’t that good in 2010.

Only 1 player on the 2010 team drafted in 2011 and only 3 players on the 2010 team drafted in 2012 played in the NFL

You know nothing about football

TALK to the NFL. They have spoken. It's over

 

[NDinNJ]

TALK to the NFL. They have spoken. It's over

You're the dumbest poster in this forum. Pat's correct, and what you aren't understanding here was Weis' last recruiting class was very good, but that class didn't make an impact in 2010 or even 2011, hence BK's record those first two years.

 

[Golson5]

You're the dumbest poster in this forum. Pat's correct, and what you aren't understanding here was Weis' last recruiting class was very good, but that class didn't make an impact in 2010 or even 2011, hence BK's record those first two years.

Dont tell me BK didnt inherit a talented team. That BS and you know it. Weis recruited very well. That team had over 20 players play in the NFl including multiple 1 st rounders and 2 HOFers.

He went 16 and 10 his first 2 years. That team was way more talented than that. Anyone who says different is lying to themselves to protect BK. If he couldn't find a role for those talented players that's on him

Guys on that 2010 team who were upperclassmen by the way who went on to play in the NFL on a roster

Michael Floyd
Kyle Rudoplh
Jonas Gray
Robert Hughes
Armando Allen

Harrison Smith
Kapron Lewis Moore
IAN Williams
Darius Fleming
Brian Smith
Darrin Walls
Robert Blanton

Thats 12 guys who were upperclassmen on that 2010 team that made a NFL roster

So dont tell me there wasnt talent on that team. You are full of shit. And thats not including some stud underclassmen like Zach Martin Manti and Eifert

 

[john0gaunt]

I’m sending love balloons.

 

[Patrirish]

TALK to the NFL. They have spoken. It's over

Correct, and only 4 players from the 2010 team were drafted in two years following the 2010 season, who played in the NFL. ONLY 4 players in two years following the 2010 season

Alabama had 12 players drafted in 2011 and 2012

ND had 4 who played after being drafted in 2011 and 2012.

Those are the facts that you just won’t except.

Get over it, you know nothing about football

 

[sjb75]

What a waste of time.

 

[NDinNJ]

Dont tell me BK didnt inherit a talented team. That BS and you know it. Weis recruited very well. That team had over 20 players play in the NFl including multiple 1 st rounders and 2 HOFers.

He went 16 and 10 his first 2 years. That team was way more talented than that. Anyone who says different is lying to themselves to protect BK. If he couldn't find a role for those talented players that's on him

Guys on that 2010 team who were upperclassmen by the way who went on to play in the NFL on a roster

Michael Floyd
Kyle Rudoplh
Jonas Gray
Robert Hughes
Armando Allen

Harrison Smith
Kapron Lewis Moore
IAN Williams
Darius Fleming
Brian Smith
Darrin Walls
Robert Blanton

Thats 12 guys who were upperclassmen on that 2010 team that made a NFL roster

So dont tell me there wasnt talent on that team. You are full of shit. And thats not including some stud underclassmen like Zach Martin Manti and Eifert

1 player was drafted in the 2011 NFL draft:
Kyle Rudolph

4 players were drafted in the 2012 NFL draft:
Michael Floyd
Harrison Smith
Robert Blanton
Darius Fleming

6 players were drafted in the 2013 NFL draft:
Tyler Eifert
Manti T'eo
Jamoris Slaughter
Theo Riddick
Kapron Lewis-Moore
Zeke Motta

A total of 11 players drafted in those first 3 years BK took over the program. 3 of which were 1st round picks.

Compare that to Alabama during that same 3 year period:
22 players drafted, 11 of those 22 were 1st round picks. That's a loaded roster.


Look at Holtz first three years vs his next three years.

1st three years 13 players drafted.
Next three years 24 players drafted.
You can see the upgrade in talent after Lou got to South Bend.

 

[Golson5]

1 player was drafted in the 2011 NFL draft:
Kyle Rudolph

4 players were drafted in the 2012 NFL draft:
Michael Floyd
Harrison Smith
Robert Blanton
Darius Fleming

6 players were drafted in the 2013 NFL draft:
Tyler Eifert
Manti T'eo
Jamoris Slaughter
Theo Riddick
Kapron Lewis-Moore
Zeke Motta

A total of 11 players drafted in those first 3 years BK took over the program. 3 of which were 1st round picks.

Compare that to Alabama during that same 3 year period:
22 players drafted, 11 of those 22 were 1st round picks. That's a loaded roster.


Look at Holtz first three years vs his next three years.

1st three years 13 players drafted.
Next three years 24 players drafted.
You can see the upgrade in talent after Lou got to South Bend.

1. Show me anywhere where I said we had more, the same or comparable talent to Alabama? I'll wait forever because you wont find it.
Thats not anything close to what I said or what I was talking about.

Nice try though

Like I said, BK inherited a very talented team. Proof being 12 upperclassmen making nfl rosters and over 20 players from that team pkaying in the NFL

Including multiple 1st rounders and 2 HOFers.

Why you are talking about Holtz or Alabama is beyond me. Very odd thing to bring up and has zero to do with the points being argued

I'll say it again for those that cant read: BK inherited a very talented roster from Weis with a lot of talent.

much better than the 16 and 10 record

 

[NDinNJ]

1. Show me anywhere where I said we had more, the same or comparable talent to Alabama? I'll wait forever because you wont find it.
Thats not anything close to what I said or what I was talking about.

Nice try though

Like I said, BK inherited a very talented team. Proof being 12 upperclassmen making nfl rosters and over 20 players from that team pkaying in the NFL

Including multiple 1st rounders and 2 HOFers.

Why you are talking about Holtz or Alabama is beyond me. Very odd thing to bring up and has zero to do with the points being argued

I'll say it again for those that cant read: BK inherited a very talented roster from Weis with a lot of talent.

much better than the 16 and 10 record

Ok smart a$$. You are saying that BK inherited a loaded roster. A loaded roster is what Alabama had during that same 3 year period. BK was handed an above average roster, but far from a loaded roster as you presume.

If you want to really dive into it, BK left Freeman a more talented roster. BK's last 3 seasons had 20 players drafted by the NFL. So by your logic, the program has taken a step back under Freeman.

 

[Patrirish]

ND in NJ,

Golson5 can’t admit that he’s wrong.

Golson5 can’t admit that the 2010 team had “future” performing talent and not contemporaneous performing talent in 2010.

Golson5 never answered the question, why didn’t all the players he named start on the 2010 team.

The answer is because in 2010 they weren’t better performers than the starters.

That they eould eventually “develop” into better players isn’t the issue

BK had to play the hand and the players he was dealt in 2010, he couldn’t player players from 2012 and 2013 in 2010.

You have to understand that people who aren’t very intelligent cling to their narrative even after facts to the contrary are produced, it’s called “stubborn stupid”

He’s just too dumb to understand that

 

[NDinNJ]

ND in NJ,

Golson5 can’t admit that he’s wrong.

Golson5 can’t admit that the 2010 team had “future” performing talent and not contemporaneous performing talent in 2010.

Golson5 never answered the question, why didn’t all the players he named start on the 2010 team.

The answer is because in 2010 they weren’t better performers than the starters.

That they eould eventually “develop” into better players isn’t the issue

BK had to play the hand and the players he was dealt in 2010, he couldn’t player players from 2012 and 2013 in 2010.

You have to understand that people who aren’t very intelligent cling to their narrative even after facts to the contrary are produced, it’s called “stubborn stupid”

He’s just too dumb to understand that

Exactly!!