I love how everybody talks negatively about Notre Dame, and why would anybody wanna play here. Well by the looks of it right now these players seem to believe in Kelly and company. I have heard positive reactions to Kelly staying. If ND finishes in the top 10 of recruiting I really wanna see the negative remarks from everybody. A bunch of people who have never played college ball in their lives wanna talk that game. Because guess what this class is going to finish strong and next year's class looks made of steel. Trust the process. You can look at the recruits twitter accounts if you would like because they Wanna play for Kelly. Knock on wood of course that this class finishes in the top 10
Recruiting
- Thread starter Dropkickirish
- Start date
I would love to agree and cheer on your post, but I suspect that the rankings haven't been updated since losing 2 commits.
Combine that with all of the highly coveted recruits that haven't committed yet (and aren't considering ND), and we will be pushed out of the top 10 in recruiting this year.
Combine that with all of the highly coveted recruits that haven't committed yet (and aren't considering ND), and we will be pushed out of the top 10 in recruiting this year.
There's a reason you rarely see current and future players talk negatively about a head coach.
ESPN had something on where they had recruiting rankings recently -- ND dropped from #6 to #10 with the recent de-commitment. And yes, there are a lot of big names still to announce, so, unless ND pulls a rabbit out of the hat, will probably finish in the 12 - 16 range
Often times people speak to soon. Let's hope this is not one of those instances.
The Rivals rankings update pretty much instantaneously, as soon as the guy is taken off the commitment list.
"The Rivals rankings update pretty much instantaneously, as soon as the guy is taken off the commitment list."
They also update immediately when a kid commits to ND, he usually drops thirty spots in the national rankings, and when he de-commits he jumps thirty.
They also update immediately when a kid commits to ND, he usually drops thirty spots in the national rankings, and when he de-commits he jumps thirty.
What process.... ? He's a lousy head coach and his record proves that...
weis had 3 top 10 classes and a # 2 in his last 4 years. That didn't make him any better as a coach. kelly was the beneficiary of weis' recruiting success.
Rivals recruiting rankings ND ’06-‘15
2006 ND 8
2007 ND 8
2008 ND 21
2009 ND 2
2010 ND 14
2011 ND 10
2012 ND 20
2013 ND 3
2014 ND 11
2015 ND 11
2016 ND 12
A few points to consider:
1. During the BK era, NDs best recruits are offensive linemen who typically commit earlier in the cycle. ND always gets a nice early bump but by signing day when much of the top 100 commit -- ND inevitably gets pushed down into the early/mid teens
2. cgvr posted a good breakdown of recruiting results the last 10+ years .. but also worth noting is that not only is BK recruiting lesser talent than Weis did, he's also getting hit way harder by roster attrition/defections/academic issues/suspensions/etc. to his best recruits. If you remove the prospects ND has lost due to arrests/suspensions/etc. -- NDs class rankings on average would likely be much closer to 20s than mid-teens.
3. Kelly's recruiting classes are very one-handed ... he recruits well at OL, TE, & QB with gaping holes on the defensive side of the ball.
1. During the BK era, NDs best recruits are offensive linemen who typically commit earlier in the cycle. ND always gets a nice early bump but by signing day when much of the top 100 commit -- ND inevitably gets pushed down into the early/mid teens
2. cgvr posted a good breakdown of recruiting results the last 10+ years .. but also worth noting is that not only is BK recruiting lesser talent than Weis did, he's also getting hit way harder by roster attrition/defections/academic issues/suspensions/etc. to his best recruits. If you remove the prospects ND has lost due to arrests/suspensions/etc. -- NDs class rankings on average would likely be much closer to 20s than mid-teens.
3. Kelly's recruiting classes are very one-handed ... he recruits well at OL, TE, & QB with gaping holes on the defensive side of the ball.
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That's why this DC hire is so important. Diaco was a good recruiter, Van Gorder was a disinterested recruiter. And it showed in the results.
Yup. Kelly's job will depend on his next hire. By the way I read the SB Trip article today about the D and can we all agree that Gilmore, like BVG, should be gone? We need a run defense and the guy's record both at ND and before has been abysmal.
We need a smart defensive mind to bring attitude and ideas to this d...
We need a smart defensive mind to bring attitude and ideas to this d...
The TE U reputation is taking a hit.
Playing "hybrid" Alize Jones in the slot or at WR is not the answer....
One thing I'll say is that if ND can still have a recruiting class that ranks in the top 15 this year after a 4 - 8 campaign and a fan base that for the most part does not llike it's coach.
Just imagine how good recruiting could be with a new coach who can win on the field at a higher threshold than BK.
There is a lot of hope IMO for a future coach at ND. CW and BK have proven you can recruit to ND - now they just need a coach like a David Shaw who give his team an identity and win and finish in the top 10 on a regular basis..
If that happens ND will soar past STANFORD on the field. I believe ND has a great chance to obtain a great coach next go round because of the fact is - you can still recruit good enough talent to win big at ND.
Just imagine how good recruiting could be with a new coach who can win on the field at a higher threshold than BK.
There is a lot of hope IMO for a future coach at ND. CW and BK have proven you can recruit to ND - now they just need a coach like a David Shaw who give his team an identity and win and finish in the top 10 on a regular basis..
If that happens ND will soar past STANFORD on the field. I believe ND has a great chance to obtain a great coach next go round because of the fact is - you can still recruit good enough talent to win big at ND.
Yep, the DC hire is critical, and I'll be sick if Kelly makes an inside promotion like Elston. I desperately want him to hire from outside and give that hire the flexibility for filling all his position coaches, which would likely mean Gilmore would be gone.
Well said. There were no David Shaw's on the coaching landscape this year, unfortunately. I have the feeling that Kelly is coaching for his 'professional life' this year. If he fails again (9/8 wins of less) he will be gone and I don't see any suitors for his services. If he has a 2012-like year (and like 2012 we have 18 returning starters, and if Kizer McG Nel come back 11 on offense!) he will look to jump to the NFL or elsewhere... JMO
If we went 11-1 next year and Kelly used that as impetus to move to his next job, that would be fine by me.
LOL .. can SOMEONE explain to me IN WHAT WORLD is class rankings in the ~15th range PROOF that ND can "still recruit" ??
ARE PEOPLE NUMBER BLIND?? ONLY 4 TEAMS MAKE THE PLAYOFFS!!!
God i am so sick and tired of this fan base accepting the current level of POOR recruiting at Notre Dame. It's atrocious. ND is one of the wealthiest, most rich tradition, most filled to capacity stadiums -- at the highest average prices, and STILL ---WITH ALL OF THE LOSING-- one of the best brands in american sports.
IN ORDER FOR ND TO WIN *ENOUGH *FOOTBALL GAMES TO COMPETE FOR NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS ON A CONSISTENT BASIS ... THERE NEEDS TO BE A DRAMATIC & DRASTIC IMPROVEMENT TO THEIR RECRUITING EFFORTS!!
RECRUITING IS TERRIBLE AT ND UNDER BK AND THERE ARE LITTLE TO NO SIGNS OF IMPROVEMENT!!!!
ARE PEOPLE NUMBER BLIND?? ONLY 4 TEAMS MAKE THE PLAYOFFS!!!
God i am so sick and tired of this fan base accepting the current level of POOR recruiting at Notre Dame. It's atrocious. ND is one of the wealthiest, most rich tradition, most filled to capacity stadiums -- at the highest average prices, and STILL ---WITH ALL OF THE LOSING-- one of the best brands in american sports.
IN ORDER FOR ND TO WIN *ENOUGH *FOOTBALL GAMES TO COMPETE FOR NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS ON A CONSISTENT BASIS ... THERE NEEDS TO BE A DRAMATIC & DRASTIC IMPROVEMENT TO THEIR RECRUITING EFFORTS!!
RECRUITING IS TERRIBLE AT ND UNDER BK AND THERE ARE LITTLE TO NO SIGNS OF IMPROVEMENT!!!!
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Then explain how a team like Michigan State does it year in and year out (with the exception of this year)? I have never seen them in the top 5-7, yet, they are always a very well coached, fundamentally sound team?
Are you suggesting that, of 129 FBS schools, only the top four recruiting classes qualify as "recruiting well", and everyone else is recruiting terribly?
AGAIN THIS IS CALLED THE EXCEPTION NOT THE RULE: FOR EVERY ONE OFF EXAMPLE OF A TEAM YOU CAN GIVE ME THAT DRASTICALLY OUT PERFORMS THEIR RECRUITING RESULTS I CAN GIVE YOU DOZENS MORE EXAMPLES OF PROGRAMS THAT PERFORM TO THE LEVEL OF THEIR RECRUITING RESULTS.
ALSO .. FOR ALL OF DANTANIOS SUCCESS AT MSU IN RECENT YEARS ... WHAT HAS MSU ACTUALLY WON WORTHY OF NOTRE DAME?? NO NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS .. AND A BLOW OUT LOSS SIMILAR TO NDS 2012 VS ALABAMA IN THE PLAYOFF. THAT'S IT.
Cheeseball, did u even understand what I was trying to.convey ?
Weis showed / proved that he could bring very good talent - talent that Ty could not bring in or was too lazy to put the effort in.
Problem was that CW was not a good.coach and he could not get ND playing at a high level consistently where the recruiting then takes another leap forward to even better classes.
BK has been the same as CW - has shown flashes of being able to recruit at a decent level. But he has not won at a good enough consistent level where the recruiting can really gain some momentum to also leap to higher consistently good rankings. And BK has also had the off the field issues i.e. including known instances where he has looked elsewhere for work - all things that are negatives when it.comes to really locking down 5 and 4 star talent.
My point is that the next coach hopefully will be even a better coach than BK - a guy who can win consistently on the field - a guy who then can parlay a solid program into those top 5 or 7 recruiting classes on a regular basis.
The good news is that a new solid potential coach will also realize that their is hope for ND - very good hope to be able to recruit at even higher levels than BK and CW.
The great news for ND is that a great coach who has true competitive bones in his body will want the challenge of truly resurrecting the Greatness of the Golden Dome !
Deep down that coach will know that it can be done !
DID YOU NOT READ THE ENTIRE POST ?? THERE'S A REASON I MENTIONED ND WEALTH/PRESTIGE/BRAND POWER ... ND SHOULD HAVE ALL OF THE RESOURCES/NOTORIETY/PRESTIGE/WEALTH ETC. TO COMPETE WITH ANYBODY IN THE COUNTRY FOR THE BEST TALENT IN THE COUNTRY.
NOBODY TALKS ABOUT NOTRE DAME'S LACK OF RECRUITING SUCCESS THOUGH -- IN FACT, WHEN THE SUBJECT COMES UP ... THE CONSENSUS AMONGST THE FANBASE -- EVEN THOUGH IT GOES AGAINST ALL EVIDENCE -- IS THAT 'RECRUITING IS FINE/OK/GOOD' .. SMH!!
IN WHAT WORLD IS TALENT SOME AFTER THOUGHT AND NOT *ALMOST* EVERYTHING WHEN IT COMES TO DETERMINING THE INEVITABLE FATE OF A TEAM!?!? ONLY IN NOTRE DAME FANS' DELUSIONAL WORLD.
What is the common denominator between all of these programs you've listed besides them being 2nd/3rd tier programs who haven't won a single national championship this century?
What Weis showed was that the right coach, who could make a compelling presentation to a recruit and most importantly, motivated recruits to come to ND not because of the school - but because of him, the coach, could bring in 5* talent. Coach 4 & 8 can't do that. In fact he may be one of the worst closers with Willingham. Need a complete culture change here before the program can go forward. Until then we are going to suffer. And don't delude yourself by thinking all these top college FB coaches can't wait to come and work for Kelly. Not happening. Where has Kelly been hiding himself these days? Waldo find him yet?
Weiss defensive recruiting was a myth - the 06 and 07 classes cost him his job. Look at the defense in 06 - ouch! 07 was almost as bad, saved by Brian Smith who was a ND legacy that was committed elsewhere until ND offered him a scholarship very late in the process. The 08 class was solid, but could not make up for the failure of the previous two years.
I have said it before on here - there are only a handful of DL recruits that are true 4 and 5 stars - most do not qualify for ND. The bulk of them go to Bama, OSU, Clemson. That leaves a bunch of teams fighting for the rest (and they usually end up in the SEC). I love ND, but most of the impact DL do not want to take an extra math or language their senior year of HS, so you are further thinning the herd. SO, like the other 21 teams in the top 25 you better have a DC that can coach these kids up. In addition to the schools listed above BC, Wake Forrest, and Temple have put pretty good D out there with far less talent than ND. (Did anyone watch the Temple vs Navy game?!?!?) It can be done at ND, you just need to recruit hard and coach your ass off.
I have said it before on here - there are only a handful of DL recruits that are true 4 and 5 stars - most do not qualify for ND. The bulk of them go to Bama, OSU, Clemson. That leaves a bunch of teams fighting for the rest (and they usually end up in the SEC). I love ND, but most of the impact DL do not want to take an extra math or language their senior year of HS, so you are further thinning the herd. SO, like the other 21 teams in the top 25 you better have a DC that can coach these kids up. In addition to the schools listed above BC, Wake Forrest, and Temple have put pretty good D out there with far less talent than ND. (Did anyone watch the Temple vs Navy game?!?!?) It can be done at ND, you just need to recruit hard and coach your ass off.
"there are only a handful of DL recruits that are true 4 and 5 stars, most do not qualify for ND"
The biggest roadblock for ND. It is not that Kelly and staff (or past coaches) do not seek these guys out (the legit 4-5 star DL prospects), but, as Kelly said, ND shops down a different aisle.
This is very true and take into account also South Bend isn't a destination location either. When kids come here it's not for the extra college experience, it is what it is. A tremendous academic institution with a high level football program with a great history.
Academically DL is far and away the most difficult recruiting position. Any coach will tell you that. That's why there are so many JUCO DLs on FBS teams. Most were guys who couldn't cut it academically coming out of high school.
That's why I think we just need to accept the fact that we have to play a 3-4, where you need 7 serviceable DLs instead of the 10 you need if you play 4-3.
I am with you, but the 3-4 does require a 325 NT to eat up blocks, other than Nix I cannot remember when the last time we had one of those.
That's why you need a coach who players will come here to play for, rather then coming to a team or a school. Players aren't coming here for Kelly, they have other reasons they're coming here. Need a terrific coach they want to be coached by and they want to play for.
Ok, TX, your job is to scour the country and find two big fat guys who have some reasonable level of brains. Sounds simple, no?
A good staff can always train some offensive linemen to play on the D-Line. 2 years in the system should be enough to get them up to speed.
Chaseball recruiting rankings would beg to differ! The players on our team with offers from the top 2 schools from each conference. Do not suddenly get to Notre Dame and those offers mean he could'nt compete at the highest level?
By your logic only Bama Fsu Clemson Osu...
Recruit at an elite level. Sadly i can watch Wisconsin and know without a shadow of a doubt coaching plays a major role in said talent!
I think of Max had he gone to $c. Perhaps his career would have mirrored Sua Cravens?
Same type of traits in high school.
By your logic only Bama Fsu Clemson Osu...
Recruit at an elite level. Sadly i can watch Wisconsin and know without a shadow of a doubt coaching plays a major role in said talent!
I think of Max had he gone to $c. Perhaps his career would have mirrored Sua Cravens?
Same type of traits in high school.
