Put it this way if everyone were as sensitive about your BS ramblings as you are about my comment snowflake, you would be on here talking to yourself. Some how I think you'd like that just as much.
Recruiting momentum looking good but Freeman still has LOTS to prove
- Thread starter chaseball
- Start date
Charlie Weis didn't turn out to be a great HC, but poking fun of his weight problem isn't particularly funny. Be better than that.
Getting back to the topic. Yes freeman had some proving to do as a coach BUT we as fans need to give him some runway to make mistakes.
1. He's shown on the admin side he has the chops moreso then a career head football coach that just got paid 100 mil to leave.
2. He's selling Notre Dame as an elite opportunity on par or above the Alabama's, Georgia's, and Ohio st's of the world. Something that hasn't been done institutionally since holtz.
3. He has an AMAZING staff. His support system is elite.
1. He's shown on the admin side he has the chops moreso then a career head football coach that just got paid 100 mil to leave.
2. He's selling Notre Dame as an elite opportunity on par or above the Alabama's, Georgia's, and Ohio st's of the world. Something that hasn't been done institutionally since holtz.
3. He has an AMAZING staff. His support system is elite.
Agree. CW was an excellent OC. He did bring in some excellent talent, just go look at what ended up in the pro's. He was a failure as a HC and his record showed.
Like Bob, Jerry and Ty. It did not matter who you had on the field, they were just not very good at the HC role.
BK was, Lou was better. MF.....TBD
For sure. I think MFs biggest advantage isn’t even his recruiting. I think it’s his lack of ego. While Saban has a lot of confidence in himself, he doesn’t feel insecure when he hires OCs and DCs that are better than himself. MF seems the same. He’s not afraid to ask other coaches for advice. Freeman has reached out to former coaches like Lou. He’s not afraid to hire former head coaches or go out and get guys that can recruit even better than he can. He’s not afraid to bring back Alum or bring in guys from Ohio State that we’re better players than he was. That’s very integral to building a big program. Set the ego aside. Bring in the best people. While you have to ply the role of head coach well, the assistant coaches are the developers of talent. If you recruit at the highest level and hire elite assistant coaches, I don’t really see how that can possibly go wrong. MF is certainly making all the right moves. Time will tell of there are some unforeseen issues within the program. I can’t did the holes.
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Great recruiters tend to be horrible strategists. Add that to how DCs are the worst a clock management.
Frankly, it wasn’t clear to me if he was lacking as a DC, or whether we just didn’t have the kind of talent and speed needed to excel in his defense. I think both were at play. Golden will prove to be a great hire, and Freeman will excel as a HC. 10-2 would be a really good season for this team with this schedule, and even 9-3 would not disappoint me; but I think talk of being a competitive playoff team or NC in 23-24 is very likely.
Don't complicate the simple. The bottom line is this: Will ND coached by Freeman win the vast majority of its football games or not? The second half meltdown in the bowl game put a big ? in my mind, which I have shared. Looking forward to the new season, and we. will see what happens.
I agree. The reason we are forgetting that is because he currently has the #1 recruiting class. If he starts losing games and/or recruits bail, MF will lose his luster immediately.
The reason we are forgetting it because it was irrelevant. He didn't have his coaches. He didn't have normal prep time. His 2 best players didn't play. He didn't have his DC. It wasn't his team
His two best players didn’t play is not an excuse. They chose not to play for him or their teammates. That’s the new way. Everyone deals with it. Won’t change. He was flat out out coached by a guy with a team of half as talented dudes. You only close that gap and win by being a far superior coach. Gundy is likely a better coach than Kelly and Freeman. He wins with less.
Freeman is a great recruiter. I don't think MF was a great DC at all (he himself admitted Golden is better than he was). The reason I think he could be a good head coach is because he's not afraid to bring in the best assistant coaches and recruiters, he has a good presence for that head coaching role, he apparently impressed everyone on staff enough that they knew he was the next head coach, has a strong work ethic, and does and says all the right things. He's not an ego maniac. He seems willing to do what it takes to make ND great, even if it means putting his needs second. That's what a head coach, teacher, leader, CEO needs to do. Manage, not micro manage. Bring in the best around you to makeup for what you don't do well. Ego is the enemy. MF is a good "leader". That's what HC requires. I'd rather he be HC than DC. I was unhappy with his defense. IF he recruits a top 5 class every year and hires the best assistants in the country, he could compete for a title. That's essentially the only shot we have. We will still get out recruited by Bama, TAMU, Georgia, possibly USC, LSU, and Ohio State every year. 4-6 finish consistently is a big improvement from BK. A massive portion of the ND fan base actually thinks and expects us to finish #1. That is simply NOT possible. Bama and Georgia have surged recently and the largest portion of the top 5 has not committed yet. We will need to out recruit at least one or two of USC, Ohio State, LSU and Georgia every year to do as well as we did in the 2022 class. We will not out recruit Bama or TAMU . MF is the best chance to get consistent top talent.
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Win or loss, that game was irrelevant to what MF is or isn't as a coach. Wasnt his team, wasn't his staff. That game showed nothing about what to expect this season with him as coach
The only thing this game revealed to me was that Elston, as much as I liked him as a position coach, is not a defensive coordinator.
Disagree. We never inserted Buchner when the offense stalled the entire second half. That was on the current coaches. The defense was deplorable in the second half (coached all year by MF), but the offense failed to score a single point in the second half until there was less than 2 minutes in the game. Rees coached a horrible second half. All we did was punt and let them score while TB sat and watched.
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I think it's a bit of a mixed bag from the bowl game:
I was a little disappointed that MF wasn't a little more prepared but I could definitely see the difference in a head coach with 30+ years experience (BK), and a new HC coaching his first game (MF).
There was an odd decision to take a knee to end the first half when NDs pass offense was unstoppable and they had about a minute left and all their TOs.
I also thought Buchner sitting the entire 2nd half while Coan struggled to move the ball was also a head scratcher (but who knows, maybe it was disciplinary or some other hidden reason involved?).
But anybody that thinks that that one game gives us any window into the future of MFs head coaching career is sorely mistaken. There is almost zero that can be gleaned from that one game.
I was a little disappointed that MF wasn't a little more prepared but I could definitely see the difference in a head coach with 30+ years experience (BK), and a new HC coaching his first game (MF).
There was an odd decision to take a knee to end the first half when NDs pass offense was unstoppable and they had about a minute left and all their TOs.
I also thought Buchner sitting the entire 2nd half while Coan struggled to move the ball was also a head scratcher (but who knows, maybe it was disciplinary or some other hidden reason involved?).
But anybody that thinks that that one game gives us any window into the future of MFs head coaching career is sorely mistaken. There is almost zero that can be gleaned from that one game.
Really? The offensive coordinator is irrelevant to a head football coach? You are the first I’ve ever heard say such a thing.
Chase…I agree. My head was damn sore from all the scratching I did during the second half of that game. But, the Reality is that Freeman had been living in an incredible 24/7 public bubble with all sorts of obligations and distractions while coaching his first game, all the while leading a team that had A million reasons to be distracted as well. I think his hire of Golden reveals he learned a lot from this experience.
That game was irrelevant to who MF is as a head coach yes
Our offense put up more points than the great Lincoln Riley and Caleb Williams. And that was with an inferior OL and WR coach we have now
The DC in that game is no longer here
Agree, but there were a few things that happened in the game that happened all season and were not changed.
Inability to contain a mobile QB - That's on freeman's D not elston (we didn't spy or contain all season, why?)
LBs blitzing like crazy and missing tackles - That's on Freeman's D not elston (stop blitzing white and betrand so much when it fails almost every time)
Lewis playing and getting destroyed - That's on Freeman's D not elston (if you have a terrible player that other teams continue to pick on, get someone else in, get them help, or do something, nothing is not an answer)
Freeman's D looked bad when we played any descent offenses especially with a mobile QB (FSU, Virginia Tech, UNC, OK St). Only UNC had a good offense out of those 4.
I'm much happier with Golden over elston as DC, but our bowl game was freemans D and it looked just like it did all season.
He wasnt calling the game on defense
We didnt have Hamilton
We had a top 15 defense last year
we had a fools gold D that played the easiest schedule probably in the last 20 years.
We didn't have hamilton for 6 games last year, not just the bowl game. Not sure what your point is here? Would hamilton ant Marist have helped, absolutely, but it isn't like we lost them a week before the game was played.
ND D absolutely dominated bad opponents. Our D was very very similar to BVG early in his career at ND. Fools gold.
I think freeman is WAYYYYYY better of a overall coach than BVG, so don't be confused there. I just don't think freeman is this great Defensive genius. I think he's a players and coaches coach that will attract immense talent around him. I hope that overshadows what I believe are some big weaknesses. Talent normally wins.
He had top defenses at Cincy and here.
He was changing the defense last year on the line and trying to run more man which is his D. The defense performed well considering the switch in defense and not having the personnel to run his own D.
Hes a very good DC
People are being silly. He ran a new system that was a vast departure from what we had done in the past and Hamilton stopped playing after his injury.
The real fact is, some people in this board didn't like his play calling and think that means he did a bad job ..even when statistical data says otherwise.
There was a few big mistakes by the players.....easy FG miss.....fumble on a crucial drive that seals it......MF/TR/ME had us in a position to win.
The thing i will agree with most on is the failure to insert Buch. We went into a serious "lets run the clock out". They scored 6 times in a row before we put up a score in the 4th. I think Coan was 3 and out on most of those.
Buch is likely to get something with his legs, maybe a few that move the sticks to manage the clock. That is the biggest head scratcher for me. BK would have force Buch in after the 3rd, three and out.
Unless he was hurt and we where not told, that was the biggest MF mistake. He has to call the ball on that one.
The thing i will agree with most on is the failure to insert Buch. We went into a serious "lets run the clock out". They scored 6 times in a row before we put up a score in the 4th. I think Coan was 3 and out on most of those.
Buch is likely to get something with his legs, maybe a few that move the sticks to manage the clock. That is the biggest head scratcher for me. BK would have force Buch in after the 3rd, three and out.
Unless he was hurt and we where not told, that was the biggest MF mistake. He has to call the ball on that one.
Again, please don’t use Hamilton sitting as an excuse. This is par for the course in CFB today.
Is ot par for the course to have your first game as a head coach against a top 10 team without a full staff, without your staff, without full preparation, without your 2 best players?
No it's not. It was irrelevant to who MF is as a head coach
He could be worse. He could be better. That game was irrelevant
There is a long article today on The Athletic website (I would link but it is a pay site) talking about Marcus Freeman's recent month-long trip where he went out on the road to visit alumni clubs all over the country. The Athletic article (written by Pete Sampson) had a fairly lengthy summary of MF's visits with the alumni clubs in Tampa, FL and Hilton Head, SC.
I was impressed with MF before the article. I am even more impressed with him now. The guy is tireless. He knows the right buttons to push. He is working hard to establish networks with alumni and he is doing it the right way.
I enjoyed this quote about a Lou Holtz pre-recorded message played at the meeting with alumni in Tampa:
"Before the program began, Lou Holtz delivered a pre-recorded message, including his apologies for not being there as he recovered from back surgery."
“My job since I left Notre Dame was to always support the head coach at Notre Dame positively. I’ve done that without exception,” Holtz said. “But I’ve got to tell you, it’s much easier to be positive about Marcus Freeman …” Whatever Holtz said next was drowned out by laughter and applause."
The article also discussed MF's effort to reach out to former ND football players and bring them back for the Blue-Gold game. Here is an interesting quote on that:
"And any mention of the football alumni reunion during Blue-Gold Game weekend registers.
That proved particularly true in Tampa for Jim Smithberger, who played defensive back on the 1966 national championship team. When the team returned to South Bend for its 55-year anniversary last season, Smithberger said he felt ignored by the school — no dinner in the Monogram Room, no observance during the game. There was a spot in the parking lot for a tailgate, but that was about it.
“We felt slighted. I and several other members of the team stated after the fact that we would not go back to Notre Dame,” said Smithberger, a 1968 graduate. “When you consider what Marcus Freeman did inviting the players back to Notre Dame, I think I will reconsider my decision. That’s how big a factor it is for me.”
This of course begs the question: Why weren't Kelly, Weis, Willingham, and Davie doing this?
We will see what kind of game coach Marcus Freeman is. But as a recruiter and face of the football program, his hire is a loud home run.
I was impressed with MF before the article. I am even more impressed with him now. The guy is tireless. He knows the right buttons to push. He is working hard to establish networks with alumni and he is doing it the right way.
I enjoyed this quote about a Lou Holtz pre-recorded message played at the meeting with alumni in Tampa:
"Before the program began, Lou Holtz delivered a pre-recorded message, including his apologies for not being there as he recovered from back surgery."
“My job since I left Notre Dame was to always support the head coach at Notre Dame positively. I’ve done that without exception,” Holtz said. “But I’ve got to tell you, it’s much easier to be positive about Marcus Freeman …” Whatever Holtz said next was drowned out by laughter and applause."
The article also discussed MF's effort to reach out to former ND football players and bring them back for the Blue-Gold game. Here is an interesting quote on that:
"And any mention of the football alumni reunion during Blue-Gold Game weekend registers.
That proved particularly true in Tampa for Jim Smithberger, who played defensive back on the 1966 national championship team. When the team returned to South Bend for its 55-year anniversary last season, Smithberger said he felt ignored by the school — no dinner in the Monogram Room, no observance during the game. There was a spot in the parking lot for a tailgate, but that was about it.
“We felt slighted. I and several other members of the team stated after the fact that we would not go back to Notre Dame,” said Smithberger, a 1968 graduate. “When you consider what Marcus Freeman did inviting the players back to Notre Dame, I think I will reconsider my decision. That’s how big a factor it is for me.”
This of course begs the question: Why weren't Kelly, Weis, Willingham, and Davie doing this?
We will see what kind of game coach Marcus Freeman is. But as a recruiter and face of the football program, his hire is a loud home run.
Patty wanted more proof. Here is more. Kelly was not loved by alumni, players and Lou. Its beyond obvious.
Freeman knows ND is a special place
Wait, Lou Holtz? Savvy said he was like Hitler.
Irrelevant in his career most likely, relevant exposing weaknesses in his coaching adjustments and D, I think so
I liked this post because i agree with a lot of this. But I don't think Bama/Tamu/Georgia are a lock to out recruit ND any longer either. The ND brand is still very strong and has withstood the test of time for over a century. It's no accident ND is one of the winningest college football programs in the history of the sport.
Also, NIL, despite it's controversy, is creating more parity in the sport. I think NIL has shaken up the landscape so significantly that we cant use any of the old evidence to project what recruiting is going to look like going forward.
Perhaps. It will be very interesting to see how the NIL era shifts the landscape. I think TAMU is very dangerous going forward. Not only are they one of the wealthiest, they’re willing to pay. Jimbo would sell his kids to win a title. As one of the richest P5 programs, I think ND is about as dangerous as they’re willing to be. Stanford, Texas, and Michigan are the other 3 along with ND that could help ruin CFB with their absurd wealth. U Texas isn’t going to sit and watch TAMU buy titles and dominate the state forever. They have double the endowment of TAMU. Absurd wealth. Look for UT to return to glory due to NIL. Of course USC and Ohio State also crack the T25 in wealth. I don’t see them going anywhere. The dirty south schools do not have as much wealth. These could be the glory days for Bama and Georgia.
If we are betting the next 20 years of college football dominance based on who is rich my list would be as follows. Of course, they’d have to be willing to pay, but these are the wealthiest schools by far and their teams could very likely take over the game if they desire to do so…
Texas $32 billion
Stanford $28 billion
TAMU $13 billion
Notre Dame $12 billion
Michigan $12 billion
USC $5 billion
Ohio State $5 billion
Everyone else is chopped liver in terms of wealth. Not only does that help us with recruiting, it helps attract coaches as they will follow the NIL money like hounds. While it might take a decade for this to shake out in favor of the above programs, I think it’s safe to say all of them besides maybe Stanford, will be in title conversation. Stanford just might not care enough to throw their hat in the ring.
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