Pretty good summary. I would add a few other critiques. Kelly threw players under the bus more than once, which said more about him than his players. He also seemed to load so much pressure on his QBs that they simply cracked. Finally, he was obviously a good coach, but what you saw is what you got. He wasn't the kind of coach who would develop something like the mirror defense that Ara came up with to knock off Texas in the Cotton Bowl.
QB Competition
- Thread starter Holycrossover3
- Start date
I personally don’t buy the premise that Kelly broke all his QBs emotionally and they could never recover even after transferring. This is the Driskell message. I like Driskell, but this seems very stupid and emo girl mentality to me. He doesn’t like BK bc BK didn’t care about Driskell. I think it’s simply bc BK didn’t recruit 5 star QBs at a consistent level and we didn’t hire a good QB coach, ever.
Anyone not excited about CJ Carr isn’t paying attention to his camp performances or his personality. This kid screams future first round pick.
With all due respect, no. Two years of Buchner starting and we'll be looking for a new head coach and wondering how it's possible a quarterback can throw more interceptions than TD passes.
I actually don't regularly visit any other ND sites, and don't read Driskell, but it was a pretty common topic as far back as Golson. I do think Kelly put a lot of pressure on QBs to not make mistakes and you could see how tightly they seemed to play as compared to quite a few pedestrian QBs who played well against us with less talent.
And not all that pressure to not make mistakes is necessarily bad. Buchner would benefit from a little of it.
JJ would’ve been the far better ND QB recruit. Either that or Michigan developed him way better. Either way, thank god for Hartman and Carr. Gino is likely a far superior QB coach than Rees.
If Tommy Rees is as poor of an overall OC and QB Coach as you consistently have written, why is Nick Saban paying Tommy 2-million per year to be the OC at Alabama?
I have not written that. I have been fairly even on Rees. Not particularly high nor low. I wasn’t excited he left. I thought he did a good job recruiting last year and calling plays for the most part. I also am the one that said he has a chance to prove himself and perhaps set himself up to one day be the ND head coach. I just see it how it is. He didn’t lead an elite QB at ND.
Dabo doesn't have a problem starting freshman QB's and winning he'll probably start another one this year. Buckner had his chance get the future in on mop up time.
I don't know why anyone ever thought of BK as a 'QB whisperer'. If anyone had taken the trouble to follow his career at UC like I did, as I had him picked out from his first season there as Weis' eventual replacement, as it was obvious that Weis was toast, and that BK was destined to be ND's next great coach, which thank god eventually came to pass....
But if they had they would have seen what a nightmare he was for QBs to deal with, and he was basically the opposite of that hackneyed epithet. At the same time, there was nothing mean or bad about him, he just cried and whined and yelled a lot, but it was mainly whining and crying, which I took to be endearing, and he was never intimidating, and you'd have to be a complete pussy to be intimidated by BK. That was just his way. In any event, Tony Pike seemed to handle it okay, and obviously the team flourished. And Rees and Book seemed to be cool with it too....
The bottom line is BK is effin' awesome, and once you get used to it I would imagine, as far as any bitching and whining and complaining, he's the kind of coach you could run through multiple brick walls for. Most CFB coaches are people I probably would barely even respect. But BK was a true leader that I would happily go to war with and serve under....
He did F up on the QB controversy thing, and that was the only time I was ever really disappointed or frustrated with him. He should have named Kizer the starter, at the latest at the completion of spring football, and probably even before that. That's how completely Kizer had Wally-Pipped Malik Zaire without any question or room for doubt. But after that low point, he recovered and we went on an awesome run, and he finally delivered on his mission to return ND to the top of the CFB mountain.
But if they had they would have seen what a nightmare he was for QBs to deal with, and he was basically the opposite of that hackneyed epithet. At the same time, there was nothing mean or bad about him, he just cried and whined and yelled a lot, but it was mainly whining and crying, which I took to be endearing, and he was never intimidating, and you'd have to be a complete pussy to be intimidated by BK. That was just his way. In any event, Tony Pike seemed to handle it okay, and obviously the team flourished. And Rees and Book seemed to be cool with it too....
The bottom line is BK is effin' awesome, and once you get used to it I would imagine, as far as any bitching and whining and complaining, he's the kind of coach you could run through multiple brick walls for. Most CFB coaches are people I probably would barely even respect. But BK was a true leader that I would happily go to war with and serve under....
He did F up on the QB controversy thing, and that was the only time I was ever really disappointed or frustrated with him. He should have named Kizer the starter, at the latest at the completion of spring football, and probably even before that. That's how completely Kizer had Wally-Pipped Malik Zaire without any question or room for doubt. But after that low point, he recovered and we went on an awesome run, and he finally delivered on his mission to return ND to the top of the CFB mountain.
More December bowl game trophies than anyone I can think of.
Sad to say experience is not everything.
Dabo did pretty well with a fresh QB.
It is certainly possible if not likely that Carr could come out of the gate smoking hot.
He will be 20 I believe as a true freshman. He’s put on weight and looks older since he committed. Could easily be a 2023 recruit based on age. He’s easily the most talented and strongest armed on the roster next season. He also comes in with more off season experience and competition experience than any incoming quarterback recruit I can remember. Odds are still against this, I just don’t think people appreciate how good and ready he could be before the end of next season. By November he’d have had 11 months to learn the offense and he’s very advanced already. If Buchner struggles, I don’t think Freeman would turn to Angeli. I think by season end, he’d turn to Carr. Like I said, Dante Moore will likely start and do well at UCLA this year. Why not Carr?
?????
CJ Carr will enter Notre Dame as an EE and he will be 18-years-old when he starts school at ND in January-2024. Carr will turn 19 in late May-2024.
I would argue this a bit. Was he a QB whisperer? No. Were his QBs being groomed for the NFL? No, but his QBs were always the focal point of his offense and had success.
GVSU: Curt Anes & Cullen Finnerty
CMU: Dan LeFevour
Cinci: Zach Collaros & Tony Pike
The run first (RB focused running not QB) power offense that led ND to most of its success with Kelly was great, but it was new for him.
Book was probably the better than anyone on that list. Kizer was good too. Golson wasn’t damaged by Kelly. He cheated and screwed himself. Rees wasn’t damaged by Kelly. Wimbush wasn’t damaged, he couldn’t do it at other places either. Crist sucked under his bff Weis too. Coan had no issues with Kelly. The whiners say he was unfair to Malik and Phil. I don’t buy it. Phil is a tool as he’s proven multiple times with his media rants. Not one of those guys was an elite top 5 QB talent. Crist was hugely overrated and Weis could not get him to play like he did with Jimmy.
I have been a TB proponent for a while.. after the game and hearing his interview... no more! Hartman then Carr, Minchey or Angeli next year!
My point is he doesn't, he clearly doesn't have some gentle, nor particularly elegant way of handling of them. He's just not a QB whisperer or guru, or whatever. He has his offense, and what the QB's are supposed to do play in and play out, and he looks like he pretty much hammers them over the head with it. And whines and cries whenever they F up, which I suppose all college QBs do....
But if you can handle it like Book seemed to be able to just fine, then it's okay, and the offense kills. Supposedly he had 'mellowed' by the time Book rolled around. But nevertheless, he's not a QB whisperer, and quite frankly Everett Golson was probably too much of a delicate flower to play for BK. That didn't seem like the best match.....
And we never had a run-first offense with BK. It's always been a pass-first offense, but mainly is pretty much a balanced offense, with run/pass distribution close to 50/50....
I would argue Book & Rees only reached their potential at QB for ND under Kelly, and they reached that potential because they had pretty low ceilings. Golson was a turnover machine. Wimbush and Zaire were both terrible.
Kizer definitely had glimpses, but any of those guys could look good with Will Fuller.
I guess I don’t know if it was just poor recruiting or development, either way the majority of his ND QBs were underwhelming.
All those bowl losses under Kelly was combined with poor quarterback play. That was no coincidence.
I like Angeli's chances as a DARK HORSE. Not this year but next. He gets VERY LITTLE INK, but most of it is positive. No glaring issues, and he can play the position.
Just a hunch.
I like Angeli's chances as a DARK HORSE. Not this year but next. He gets VERY LITTLE INK, but most of it is positive. No glaring issues, and he can play the position.
Just a hunch.
I like Angeli's chances as a DARK HORSE. Not this year but next. He gets VERY LITTLE INK, but most of it is positive. No glaring issues, and he can play the position.
Just a hunch.
Crist never really played for Weis. BK ran him between the tackles. Between pounding Crist, screaming at Golson, Rees impersonating Tom Brady, waiting on Kizer, changing Wimbush's throwing motion and keeping Book in the pocket; KElly had best stick to 5th years in the portal.
The QB recruiting was excellent...
Slow release. Inconsistent accuracy. Not a cannon arm. Carr should be able to beat him out.
“I would argue Book & Rees only reached their potential at QB for ND under Kelly, and they reached that potential because they had pretty low ceilings. Golson was a turnover machine. Wimbush and Zaire were both terrible.”
Rees was more of a turnover machine than golson, and golson’s ability to run was excellent and Rees’s was non existent. Book was way better than rees, no comparison, but as far as “reaching ceilings”, maybe there’s some truth to that but that’s hard to tell. Wimbush & Zaire were good athletes but weren’t consistent passers.
Rees was more of a turnover machine than golson, and golson’s ability to run was excellent and Rees’s was non existent. Book was way better than rees, no comparison, but as far as “reaching ceilings”, maybe there’s some truth to that but that’s hard to tell. Wimbush & Zaire were good athletes but weren’t consistent passers.
I think he throws the ball better than buchner, but he may have an even worse pocket presence. There's a reason he wasn't in a red jersey. I've got to think Angeli has got to be looking to transfer if he wants to play, and that's ok. I don't think freeman would say the same thing to Angeli that he did to styles "You should at least stay here on the football team for your degree".
And or to keep buchner from transferring. As bad as buchner was, Angeli isn't it, and minchey has a long ways to go and neither of those two will get the reps. ND invested a lot into the buchner reps this spring.
There is a difference between "drills" and when the bullets fly. Buchner looks great in the former. Then seems to struggle when it goes live.
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