QB Competition

[Holycrossover3]

I think it’s safe to say the QB competition is over for our 2023 season.

I know it’s just a spring game, but…..
Wow, how I’ve missed watching a QB go through his progressions and always hitting the open guy. It was nothing “sexy” but the offense is so smooth with #10. I can’t wait to see him with a few of the more athletic receivers on his side, and Estime.

Tough seeing Buchner struggle today. Feel for him. Hoping he sticks around and learns a ton from Hartman this year. That said, and I really don’t mean to be negative, but I’m not sure I see Tyler excelling at QB here.

Just my opinion. Excited for the year!

Go Irish!

 

[sjb75]

I think it’s safe to say the QB competition is over for our 2023 season.

I know it’s just a spring game, but…..
Wow, how I’ve missed watching a QB go through his progressions and always hitting the open guy. It was nothing “sexy” but the offense is so smooth with #10. I can’t wait to see him with a few of the more athletic receivers on his side, and Estime.

Tough seeing Buchner struggle today. Feel for him. Hoping he sticks around and learns a ton from Hartman this year. That said, and I really don’t mean to be negative, but I’m not sure I see Tyler excelling at QB here.

Just my opinion. Excited for the year!

Go Irish!

Thanks Mel Kiper.

 

[BleedingBlueNGold]

Hartman this year. Minchey will be the guy in 24.

 

[NDDadx3]

I think it’s safe to say the QB competition is over for our 2023 season.

I know it’s just a spring game, but…..
Wow, how I’ve missed watching a QB go through his progressions and always hitting the open guy. It was nothing “sexy” but the offense is so smooth with #10. I can’t wait to see him with a few of the more athletic receivers on his side, and Estime.

Tough seeing Buchner struggle today. Feel for him. Hoping he sticks around and learns a ton from Hartman this year. That said, and I really don’t mean to be negative, but I’m not sure I see Tyler excelling at QB here.

Just my opinion. Excited for the year!

Go Irish!

Agreed. We are a playoff team in 2022 with Hartman at QB.

 

[IrishBeer]

I think it’s safe to say the QB competition is over for our 2023 season.

I know it’s just a spring game, but…..
Wow, how I’ve missed watching a QB go through his progressions and always hitting the open guy. It was nothing “sexy” but the offense is so smooth with #10. I can’t wait to see him with a few of the more athletic receivers on his side, and Estime.

Tough seeing Buchner struggle today. Feel for him. Hoping he sticks around and learns a ton from Hartman this year. That said, and I really don’t mean to be negative, but I’m not sure I see Tyler excelling at QB here.

Just my opinion. Excited for the year!

Go Irish!

It was always over. Hartman is a top 5 QB. We are in trouble for 2024 unless Minchey improves a lot or Carr is ready to go.

 

[savvyandsassier]

I'm not watching the spring game but that's awesome news. It sucks that we didn't get a good OC to replace TR. But as long as the SH plan is still right on track, then at least we didn't screw that up. And to all the haters, or maybe not haters, but to the know-it-alls who were either indignant or sneering and snide at the thought that things maybe weren't going to plan, they can still screw themselves, or at least that one dude can.

In any case, great news that SH is looking so good and can't wait to watch the highlights....

 

[IrishBeer]

I would much rather be discussing a QB controversy to be honest. It would be better for all of us if Buchner had a good game. It’s “just a spring game”, but it was still very evident who the better player is. Buchner is one hit away from being the starter.

 

[Holycrossover3]

It was always over. Hartman is a top 5 QB. We are in trouble for 2024 unless Minchey improves a lot or Carr is ready to go

2024 will be interesting. Have to assume Carr won’t be ready, which is fine and expected.

Hopefully the entire QB room takes a few steps forward this year. If things go well with Hartman, that could open the door for another grad transfer QB if needed.

 

[edub72]

Agreed. Hartman is so much more polished than any ND qb in several years. He looks great

 

[BGI User 1596]

Agreed. Hartman is so much more polished than any ND qb in several years. He looks great

Excellent development at WF,

 

[NDDadx3]

Agreed. Hartman is so much more polished than any ND qb in several years. He looks great

The QB room and WR room were a disaster under Kelly and Rees. While the team as a whole was much better since Weis, the QBs and WRs were surprisingly a giant step backwards. There is reason for hope.

 

[savvyandsassier]

The QB room and WR room were a disaster under Kelly and Rees. While the team as a whole was much better since Weis, the QBs and WRs were surprisingly a giant step backwards. There is reason for hope.

That's complete and utter nonsense, and any sort of halfway-knowledgeable football person would laugh at what a transparent hater you are. It's still a mystery why so many ND fans and especially alums have rallied around this utterly misguided, misplaced, and just head-scratchingly preposterous hatred for BK.... and we're talking about bordering on real hatred, of the darker, heavier kind, and not just being a so-called 'hater'....

In any case, with BK at LSU and already safe and steadfast in his reputation as one of the great coaches and even offensive innovators of his era, and his prime protege already on the fastest of tracks to his own budding greatness as an offensive coach, we can flush little brickbats like yours down the toilet where they belong. Even if you are just trolling me.

Once again great news about SH, we definitely want and need him to be a big success for us....

 

[sjb75]

The QB room and WR room were a disaster under Kelly and Rees. While the team as a whole was much better since Weis, the QBs and WRs were surprisingly a giant step backwards. There is reason for hope.

Fuc.... Garbage.

 

[Holycrossover3]

That's complete and utter nonsense, and any sort of halfway-knowledgeable football person would laugh at what a transparent hater you are. It's still a mystery why so many ND fans and especially alums have rallied around this utterly misguided, misplaced, and just head-scratchingly preposterous hatred for BK.... and we're talking about bordering on real hatred, of the darker, heavier kind, and not just being a so-called 'hater'....

In any case, with BK at LSU and already safe and steadfast in his reputation as one of the great coaches and even offensive innovators of his era, and his prime protege already on the fastest of tracks to his own budding greatness as an offensive coach, we can flush little brickbats like yours down the toilet where they belong. Even if you are just trolling me.

Once again great news about SH, we definitely want and need him to be a big success for us....

I agree about the odd hate for Kelly. He turned this ship around and brought us back to playoff contention. 10 win seasons became the norm. Coach of the year on numerous occasions. To me, his best attribute was maximizing talent at certain positions. He is simply, a great coach who has won everywhere he’s been.
I do think he left at the right time. It seemed like we touched the ceiling for Kelly at ND. That said, I think he can win a title at LSU.

I do think it’s fair to criticize a couple areas in his tenure at ND:
1. Recruiting top talent. ND is already a difficult place to recruit into. Academics, 8000 undergrads, catholic school with dorms separated by sex and parietals, etc. To convince a top tier kid to come to ND takes more of a players coach. It was clear Kelly wasn’t a players coach to say the least. We need a kid that says, “i don’t care about all those other things, I want to play for THAT guy.” This is probably the only leg up I think Freeman has on Kelly so far at ND.

2. QB play. This one has always perplexed me. Kelly has had great QBs everywhere he went, except at ND. Not only below average play, but so much regression as well. You think of Jimmy Clausen’s junior year (the year before Kelly came) and we never touched that kind of talent or career progression in one of his QBs. I still shake my head here. I don’t get it.

3. Winning the big game. Record against top teams. Not even going to dive in here, we all know this one.

 

[bizzybecknd]

Would be shocked if Minchey passes Buchner in 2024, looking forward to 2 years with TB at the helm.

 

[Terry Jillery]

I think they will have to go portal again next year

 

[savvyandsassier]

I agree about the odd hate for Kelly. He turned this ship around and brought us back to playoff contention. 10 win seasons became the norm. Coach of the year on numerous occasions. To me, his best attribute was maximizing talent at certain positions. He is simply, a great coach who has won everywhere he’s been.
I do think he left at the right time. It seemed like we touched the ceiling for Kelly at ND. That said, I think he can win a title at LSU.

I do think it’s fair to criticize a couple areas in his tenure at ND:
1. Recruiting top talent. ND is already a difficult place to recruit into. Academics, 8000 undergrads, catholic school with dorms separated by sex and parietals, etc. To convince a top tier kid to come to ND takes more of a players coach. It was clear Kelly wasn’t a players coach to say the least. We need a kid that says, “i don’t care about all those other things, I want to play for THAT guy.” This is probably the only leg up I think Freeman has on Kelly so far at ND.

2. QB play. This one has always perplexed me. Kelly has had great QBs everywhere he went, except at ND. Not only below average play, but so much regression as well. You think of Jimmy Clausen’s junior year (the year before Kelly came) and we never touched that kind of talent or career progression in one of his QBs. I still shake my head here. I don’t get it.

3. Winning the big game. Record against top teams. Not even going to dive in here, we all know this one.

Yeah, it's true, the QB position for BK never quite hit its stride until Book. But there were some extenuating circumstances, like Golson flunking out, and that senseless, destructive QB controversy, which BK very regrettably nourished instead of stamping out, and then the terrible 2016 season which followed it, and that kind of threw off what should/could have been Kizer's time to really shine.....

That is one thing that even as completely an unabashed BK admirer and homer that I am can admit, that he didn't fall on his sword quite often enough, even if it was just as a gesture for the fans and the haters, though it didn't bother me in the slightest.... And he should have just firmly named Kizer the starter, instead of bending so far over backwards in order keep his little promise to Zaire, which ended in disaster for us, and almost cost him his job....

But enough about the past, and let the SH era for ND football begin!!!

 

[IrishBeer]

Yeah, it's true, the QB position for BK never quite hit its stride until Book. But there were some extenuating circumstances, like Golson flunking out, and that senseless, destructive QB controversy, which BK very regrettably nourished instead of stamping out, and then the terrible 2016 season which followed it, and that kind of threw off what should/could have been Kizer's time to really shine.....

That is one thing that even as completely an unabashed BK admirer and homer that I am can admit, that he didn't fall on his sword quite often enough, even if it was just as a gesture for the fans and the haters, though it didn't bother me in the slightest.... And he should have just firmly named Kizer the starter, instead of bending so far over backwards in order keep his little promise to Zaire, which ended in disaster for us, and almost cost him his job....

But enough about the past, and let the SH era for ND football begin!!!

None of the QBs BK recruited besides Book and Kizer were all that great. When they left, they stunk or were mediocre. Golson, Zaire, PJ, Wimbush, Kiel. None of them were elite or further developed elsewhere. I doubt Buchner will ever develop to being elite either. I don’t think it was BK as much as it’s tough getting elite talent to ND at QB for some damn reason. Think about how many 5 star QBs end up as duds. It’s a majority. Carr has a high chance to be the best since Clausen but it’s always just throwing shit at the wall and hoping it sticks unless it’s the top overall guy. I think Hartman could have the best single season in ND history.

 

[ohio1980]

Excellent development at WF,

Are you kidding, he is going into his 6th year, geez.

 

[scubastevefl]

Todays performance shocks me, I thought the Gator Bowl could propel Buchner, maybe not the starter this year but enough to push Hartman and lock in being the starter for 24 and maybe 25. Question now becomes is he even on the roster at kickoff in 23.

 

[Holycrossover3]

None of the QBs BK recruited besides Book and Kizer were all that great. When they left, they stunk or were mediocre. Golson, Zaire, PJ, Wimbush, Kiel. None of them were elite or further developed elsewhere. I doubt Buchner will ever develop to being elite either. I don’t think it was BK as much as it’s tough getting elite talent to ND at QB for some damn reason. Think about how many 5 star QBs end up as duds. It’s a majority. Carr has a high chance to be the best since Clausen but it’s always just throwing shit at the wall and hoping it sticks unless it’s the top overall guy. I think Hartman could have the best single season in ND history.

Recruiting the QB position is tough, I agree, but Weis didn’t struggle recruiting top QBs. Coaching Tom Brady probably didn’t hurt….

Early in BKs tenure he was known for throwing temper tantrums at his players, often times the QB. You have to wonder if that played any type of role stopping top players from committing.

Kizer had a high ceiling we never quite reached, and Book had a much lower ceiling we certainly did see.

I’ll always wonder what would’ve happened if Clausen & Tate came back for their senior year with Floyd and Rudolph on the team in BKs first year. Instead, we were introduced to freshman Tommy Rees haha. I believe Clausen would’ve been our best chance at a Heisman since Brown.

Oh well, like previously stated, onward to the Hartman era!

 

[burmafrd1943]

Contrary to what some gomers here thought, I was not surprised at TJ's bad performance. The Gator Bowl showed what he was. Against a better D he would have been humiliated. Today showed that.

Hartman was supposedly struggling according to both TJ minions and the chicken littles.

OOOOPPPPPSSSS

Looking forward to the fall

 

[BGI User 1596]

Contrary to what some gomers here thought, I was not surprised at TJ's bad performance. The Gator Bowl showed what he was. Against a better D he would have been humiliated. Today showed that.

Hartman was supposedly struggling according to both TJ minions and the chicken littles.

OOOOPPPPPSSSS

Looking forward to the fall

Buchnuts looked like a typical Kelly QB ….

 

[nd4life211]

Doesn't look like Buchner has progressed at all and the young guys didn't look very impressive either. 2024 looks like another transfer or rolling with Carr (granted he signs).

 

[BleedingBlueNGold]

I don't think it is unreasonable to expect Minchey to develop in the system over the next year and really be ready to go toe to toe with Buchner. All Minchey has to do is show he can pass better than Buchner (which is not hard to do) and he will be the guy. I think Minchey has the most upside out of any of the QB's in the room right now (aside from Hartman).

 

[sjb75]

I don't think it is unreasonable to expect Minchey to develop in the system over the next year and really be ready to go toe to toe with Buchner. All Minchey has to do is show he can pass better than Buchner (which is not hard to do) and he will be the guy. I think Minchey has the most upside out of any of the QB's in the room right now (aside from Hartman).

Who has more upside, Buchner or Minchey, has yet to be decided. Play a real football game with real rules, where feet and athleticism matter, and Tyler Buchner will be much better than a Spring game format.

Buchner, Minchey, and CJ Carr in 2024 is fine with me.

 

[IrishBeer]

Rewatched the game. I do not believe Hartman had better protection. Buchner didn’t get rid of the ball quickly, Hartman did. Hartman got the ball out much faster. Sam made pre snap reads and hit Greathouse and Thomas. Buchner took snaps, then looked to receiver 1 and scrambled around and threw it in the dirt like usual. He lacked arm strength and accuracy consistently. Hartman kept his eyes downfield while standing in the pocket like a good QB. Buchner also had the better receivers on paper. Couldn’t get them the ball. Just got outplayed. Period.

 

[IrishBeer]

Who has more upside, Buchner or Minchey, has yet to be decided. Play a real football game with real rules, where feet and athleticism matter, and Tyler Buchner will be much better than a Spring game format.

Buchner, Minchey, and CJ Carr in 2024 is fine with me.

He’d have been worse off with “real rules”. He’d have turned the ball over to start the game with a fumble, which would’ve led to a quick 6.

 

[hoopsstar12]

Agreed. Hartman is so much more polished than any ND qb in several years. He looks great

That's because he played for real coaches at Wake Forest. Oh and BTW, while most posters are still stuck on Buchner, Steve Angeli went 8 for 12 and had a beautiful pass to Greathouse. Too bad for Steve is that he is destined to rot on the bench even though this is his second year in a row playing well. I don't have anything personal against TB but he should be 3rd string and inserted at times during the game to run only and keep the other team off balance. I would not let Buchner throw short passes ever. Angeli has the most future potential. Unfortunately in the game of ND football politics, TB will always be the obsession and play the role of the #2 guy no matter what he does.

 

[sjb75]

That's because he played for real coaches at Wake Forest. Oh and BTW, while most posters are still stuck on Buchner, Steve Angeli went 8 for 12 and had a beautiful pass to Greathouse. Too bad for Steve is that he is destined to rot on the bench even though this is his second year in a row playing well. I don't have anything personal against TB but he should be 3rd string and inserted at times during the game to run only and keep the other team off balance. I would not let Buchner throw short passes ever. Angeli has the most future potential. Unfortunately in the game of ND football politics, TB will always be the obsession and play the role of the #2 guy no matter what he does.

Stick to your day job. Let Marcus Freeman make the personnel decisions.

 

[hoopsstar12]

Stick to your day job. Let Marcus Freeman make the personnel decisions.

I realize that you have Tyler Buchner pictures all over your wall and you still dream that he will be a top 10 first round NFL pick someday. Keep dreaming. Freeman has already made his choice. He is only judged by his recruiting rankings not on the field performance so he will support Buchner because he doesn't know any better. Neither does Parker. Hartman will have to overcome not only the opposing D but the unproven ND coaching staff. If I were Angeli and I don't get some valuable PT this year then I transfer. Buchner might end up in the Pac 12 someday maybe Oregon State, WSU, or Utah.

 

[IrishBeer]

Call me crazy, I think Carr is the type of rare talent that could be ready next year.

 

[BleedingBlueNGold]

As far as I'm concerned, Angeli is the clear number 2 option. If Hartman were to go down, you want someone to go in and not make mistakes first and foremost.

 

[savvyandsassier]

I think TB's future at ND could definitely be in doubt, if today's performance is to be taken as some sort of bellwether. Because 8 for 18 for 44 yards is not good. And Angeli and Minchey will be breathing down his neck and both fully old enough and ready to play in a year's time....

Whoever mentioned will he even be on the roster for 2023, that's a fair question. Obviously an allusion to the possibility that he might transfer. Which it's a little hasty for that, but today's game could easily represent a setback for TB's future prospects....

 

[BGI User 1596]

Call me crazy, I think Carr is the type of rare talent that could be ready next year.

You’re crazy!

 

[IrishBeer]

You’re crazy!

Dante Moore may start for UCLA. It does happen.

 

[Harpo Marxist]

Both Hartman and Buchner have been injured. We can debate back and forth about who should start. Fact is....Notre Dame needs both of these guys to be prepared to play at any given moment....for the rest of the season, if necessary. We have been in the "so and so or bust" category for so long...its difficult to come to grips that ND finally has two capable guys. There isn't this major drop-off between them that translates into x more losses, either.

 

[burmafrd1943]

Both Hartman and Buchner have been injured. We can debate back and forth about who should start. Fact is....Notre Dame needs both of these guys to be prepared to play at any given moment....for the rest of the season, if necessary. We have been in the "so and so or bust" category for so long...its difficult to come to grips that ND finally has two capable guys. There isn't this major drop-off between them that translates into x more losses, either.

Buchner at this time is a disaster looking for a stadium to happen. You might not want to admit it but to anyone with eyes that is the way it is.
By the way you will have to look hard for many players that have NEVER been injured

 

[burmafrd1943]

Who has more upside, Buchner or Minchey, has yet to be decided. Play a real football game with real rules, where feet and athleticism matter, and Tyler Buchner will be much better than a Spring game format.

Buchner, Minchey, and CJ Carr in 2024 is fine with me.

We have seen what Buchner can do on a real field in a real game and it was not pretty. If he had been up against a Quality D he would have been horrid.

 

[IrishBeer]

Both Hartman and Buchner have been injured. We can debate back and forth about who should start. Fact is....Notre Dame needs both of these guys to be prepared to play at any given moment....for the rest of the season, if necessary. We have been in the "so and so or bust" category for so long...its difficult to come to grips that ND finally has two capable guys. There isn't this major drop-off between them that translates into x more losses, either.

We need them both. No doubt. I was disappointed yesterday. Not bc Hartman was looking good, but bc Buchner looked so bad the entire time he was out there. From the fumble to throwing it up for grabs to looking quiet and reserved around teammates. I want Buchner to look good. He’s the most experienced guy we have for next year. He has to develop or we are back to the portal. That or it’s Carr time and that will be a monumental risk. Buch has to get a lot more consistent for us to have a good 2024 season.