Option , Wish Bone

[Izo]

Will Kelly have Zaire under center at all this year ? Zaire with some option plays gives a few new wrinkles to the offense. . Kelly can still basically run the same offense . In the wishbone with Zaire under center a combination of either Folston or , Prosise or, ,Sanders,or Carlisle in the back field.? Under center gives a new dimension to the offense and maybe Kelly will finally have all the pieces in place for a championship run..Watching Zaire running the ball against LSU, it will be interesting to see how opposing coaches defend . Zaire did have a short controlled passing game against LSU .Opposing defensive backs will play up on ND 's receivers .A great chance for some down the field plays.Zaire needs to make the deep throws a few times every game

I think our offensive line is under rated. Stanley ,a definite 1st round . Q. Nelson ,a 5- star ,and red shirt sophomore will probably be an NFL lineman after he is through at ND. Just needs experience. Also N. Martin ,McGlinchey,Elmer ,Bars, ,all have potential to be high 2nd ,3rd round draft choices . Our running attack should be second to none. And in tough games we should be able to control the clock

Everybody seems to be worried about the defense. The last 5 games of the 2014 season ,we gave up 43 points a game .We had so many defensive players out with injuries in the second half of the season.Our defense has to pick it up this season. On offense we did average over 5 touchdowns a game . However we scored 48 against Rice, 50 against North Carolina ,49 against Navy .In the other 9 games we scored 31 or less .

I'd like to get some comments about the possibility of Zaire under the ball.




games we scored 31 or less points .

 

[BGI User 1596]

NO - we like to pass out of the shot gun. Only thing we know about the D is its Tenuta V 2.0 - one of the unknown unknowns of this team.

 

[Toby Smart]

You will never see ND run out of the Wishbone in our lifetime. That formation is done. Gone but not forgotten. Maybe some high schools might still use it but those are very few. One reason is the QB will take a ton of hits and do we really want that for MZ? You might see some variation on the option by BK but it definitely won't be out of The Bone.

 

[MTIrish98]

Taking snaps out of the shotgun gives the playcaller and QB a lot more options at the line of scrimmage in BK's offense.

I think our OL is very good, but I don't think it is underrated. Almost every preview I've read about ND mentions how good the OL should be.

 

[88ND]

No.....but not for the above internet football experts reasons. Ha

The first reason is to run a wishbone properly who is going to be the fullback? Ha ha....exactly ...we haven't had a legit FB on the roster in a decade.

As far as the just the option per se, again unless you have a fullback either taking the dive or being faked then the option only becomes 1 option of pitching it or not. Moreover the linebackers can take off to that side and blow the play up. The FB is needed to keep those inside backers and even D tackles honest.
A speed option can work like once in a blue moon with no fullback...but it would be run out of a two tight end set with both tight ends on one side as one stepping back into the wing spot. So he essentially is being a fullback on the wing but is no threat to take the handoff.

Having said all this the wishbone is lethal. It can be impossible to stop if everyone does their job.
Let's discuss a second.....if a Tom Osborne in his prime were to come back and run his offense...recruit for his offense...they might average 70 points running the ball. Why? Because today's defenses are smaller and set up and recruited for stopping the spread attack. Formations are of a 3-5-3 are more the norm and if they played a team running such an attack with top blue chip talent.....they are in serious trouble. Coaches are a slave to the trends. A coach today can run the spread attack, lose games, and will get chance after chance. But the perception even amongst this board of experts, lol, is if you ran a wishbone, power I option attack it is an antique and if that coach lost a few games oh boy it's because his offense is so dated. Funny to say the least.

If Navy was able to get the blue chip athletes in 2015 ..as they did when people took pride in serving for their country.....
I ask ya, do YOU really want to try and stop that offense? Good luck.

 

[floridairish]

You can't get blue chip athletes AND run the under center option. The last team to do that was Nebraska 20 years ago. You commit to those offenses you are telling the world your program will consist of 2 star players. This narrative of "if Navy or G Tech had Alabama or Ohio States players, what would happen? " is ludicrous. I have coached in South Florida HS's for 20 years and this is the land of 4 and 5 star recruits. And I can tell you for a FACT, these kids will never play in those offenses under any circumstances. The discussion of how effective or how difficult it is to prepare and stop the WIshbone, Houston Veer or Flexbone is irrelevant. You must run the offense the top kids want to play in, then just execute it better than the other guys. ND is in the right system to attract players. The Holtz Bone left 19 years ago and is not coming back.

 

[Toby Smart]

When was the last full time Wishbone team that won a national title? Those days are gone as a formation and a preferred offense. Defenses are just too quick now, especially in a confined area that The Bone requires. As far as the FB position, well, that has also gone by the wayside for the most part. If you want to Spread 'em out and run some type of Flex Bone or Spread Option as an added feature to your offense, that's one thing. Running the actual Wishbone, even on a part time basis, is not going to happen. the late great Darrell Royal once said that in order for The Bone to be successful you have to believe in it, run it night and day, then practice and run it again. He said in that same interview that too many OC's run it for awhile, are not successful, then shelve it for something new. This was back in the late '60s that he made these comments. Very wise from a HOF coach. BK is not going to focus all his attention on running the same play over and over and risk his QB to boot.

 

[NDCap]

Lou Holtz use to run the fullhouse backfield inside the 10 yard line most of the time but he was a power "I" multiple look team. I don't even think BK knows how to spell wishbone. This is a spread team and ND can run very effectively with option from the gun . Just looking back to the glory days imagine Rocket today in the slot ???? He used to line up as a WR in a 3point stance .

 

[twalsh]

I think there's a better chance of topless cheerleaders at ND than Coach Kelly running the triple option during his coaching career.

But which of those would you RATHER see?????????

 

[continually35forever]

You can't get blue chip athletes AND run the under center option. The last team to do that was Nebraska 20 years ago. You commit to those offenses you are telling the world your program will consist of 2 star players. This narrative of "if Navy or G Tech had Alabama or Ohio States players, what would happen? " is ludicrous. I have coached in South Florida HS's for 20 years and this is the land of 4 and 5 star recruits. And I can tell you for a FACT, these kids will never play in those offenses under any circumstances. The discussion of how effective or how difficult it is to prepare and stop the WIshbone, Houston Veer or Flexbone is irrelevant. You must run the offense the top kids want to play in, then just execute it better than the other guys. ND is in the right system to attract players. The Holtz Bone left 19 years ago and is not coming back.

Florida - Please share more often - this board in is desperate need of more people who actually know the game

 

[Izo]

Okay, so I'm getting blasted for suggesting the wish bone for a couple of plays .But at least , having a QB under center once in a while would add a little different wrinkle

Our offense should be pretty potent and I 'd expect blow outs against weaker and average teams ..

 

[MTIrish98]

I'd like to see the QB under center more down on the goal line. Especially with Zaire at the helm. It seems silly to snap the ball back 5 yards on a QB sneak.

 

[Telx1]

Well, the QB sneak out of the shotgun is more like a power run with a double TE formation and H Back blocking and the QB picking his hole. That said, I expect to see Malik under center and running the read option several times per game.

 

[Izo]

I have at least one Domer who thinks the QB should be under center near the goal line . Zaire in a QB sneak .He is a very strong runner with power .Maybe in some other situations ?

 

[MTIrish98]

I have at least one Domer who thinks the QB should be under center near the goal line . Zaire in a QB sneak .He is a very strong runner with power .Maybe in some other situations ?

Definitely on short yardage situations. The defense will know a QB sneak is coming, but ND shouldn't care. Dare the defense to stop a man of Zaire's size behind Martin & Co.

 

[continually35forever]

Definitely on short yardage situations. The defense will know a QB sneak is coming, but ND shouldn't care. Dare the defense to stop a man of Zaire's size behind Martin & Co.[/QUOTE

2nd and goal inside the five yd line will tell me all I need to know re how far our OL has come

Beat Texas !!!

 

[Toby Smart]

You keep saying "Wishbone". Do you mean running option out of that formation or do you mean running option with the QB under Center with a single Back and perhaps motion, using the term "wishbone" as a generic term for option. You might see some form of option from BK but it won't be a staple of this offense, that's for sure. Something to keep opposing DC's guessing.

 

[Izo]

In the big games ,you definitely have to keep their defenses honest

 

[Bodizephax]

I wish we would run the fumblerooski with Steve Elmer.

 

[88ND]

You can't get blue chip athletes AND run the under center option. The last team to do that was Nebraska 20 years ago. You commit to those offenses you are telling the world your program will consist of 2 star players. This narrative of "if Navy or G Tech had Alabama or Ohio States players, what would happen? " is ludicrous. I have coached in South Florida HS's for 20 years and this is the land of 4 and 5 star recruits. And I can tell you for a FACT, these kids will never play in those offenses under any circumstances. The discussion of how effective or how difficult it is to prepare and stop the WIshbone, Houston Veer or Flexbone is irrelevant. You must run the offense the top kids want to play in, then just execute it better than the other guys. ND is in the right system to attract players. The Holtz Bone left 19 years ago and is not coming back.

I beg to differ. How many spread attacks do you find in the NFL? Nothing to speak of. Still dominanted by the power running game short passing game. Ok so let's start with the line. I can sell the line on the power running game which will be an nfl scouts dream. I can sell the blue chip tail backs all day long on this offense...again because the nfl will love my backs coming from a power running program. So the only thing I'm not getting is the stud wideout and a drop back passer. But I don't care on the wideout part because I'm not throwing much...same with the qb. Moreover most spread qb's do not even get a look from the nfl let alone be drafted.
Now if I can just find a true fb in 2015 if any schools run with them any more.

The nfl will love me because I'm sending them nfl ready material on offense with the backs and line.

As I said above all it would take is a Tom Osborne type in his prime and hungry and watch the success and the copy cats that follow.

 

[mirer03]

NO - we like to pass out of the shot gun. Only thing we know about the D is its Tenuta V 2.0 - one of the unknown unknowns of this team.

Stop the nonsense about Tenuta and BVG.

Tenuta was a bad cultural fit on a team with a coach (Charlie) trying anything to develop an identity on defense. Bad fit and bad meshing of defensive coaches with Corwin Brown as D coordinator (a position Brown was not ready for)...with a Head coach that could only get dlineman by moving over offensive lineman. Tenuta was known for an attacking 3-4 defense that blitzed from all over the field. It just never materialized at ND and has been exposed as being strong against a pro style offense but weak against current spread teams.

BVG is in the midst of switching personnel from a 3-4 "bend dont break defense" to an attacking 4-3 defense. The players required for these schemes and the mentality change of the players in new positions takes time to implement. We should see improvements this year, but last year ND was a top defense through 6 games before injuries started to take hold. The jury is still out, but the coaching situation and challenges are very different.

I think some people have short term memories or simply dont understand the differences between the two situations.

 

[IRISHJD98]

I think there's a better chance of topless cheerleaders at ND than Coach Kelly running the triple option during his coaching career.

Best argument I've heard for bringing back the triple option in a long time.

 

[NDlb46]

I agree that the wishbone is a "dead" formation as there are so few true fullbacks anymore. What we see more often now from the pros down through high school are those big bodied kids that get labeled tight ends or H-backs that can play the role of the fullback when needed through shifting or alignment, line up in a wing off the foot of a tackle, play the role of a second TE, and be a third or fourth option in passing. Luatua is the perfect example of this type of player.

The closest thing I've noticed to the old wishbone is the formation that has QB under center, 2 split receivers, the TB 6-7 yds behind the QB and two H-back/TE/FB types 3-4 yards behind the offensive tackles. It looks like a triangle from the O-line back to the tailback. The first time I really noticed this formation was with Green Bay when they made their super bowl run a few years back. I'm sure they weren't the first to have that formation, just the first time I saw it. I just personally like that formation because it's balanced but can quickly get a D out of alignment with 3 backfield players that can motion over. Or if the play is run out of that formation, the defense has to honor both sides of the field giving the offense an advantage to pull, counter, option, and load up either direction without giving anything away.

I think it could work at ND and we have personnel options that could make it work, but like Ara said, we've got a better chance of seeing topless cheerleaders as it just isn't in BK's offensive philosophy and never will be.

 

[Toby Smart]

On a lighter note, twenty years ago I coached 12-13 year old (Midget league) Pop Warner for a few years and we ran a true Bone. My staff and I went to a couple of local HS clinics on the subject and I talked to a couple of HS OCs who were running it . It was thrill a minute and we scored a ton of points but we absolutely could not stop anyone either. We spent all our time teaching and practicing "reads" the Pop Warner defenses would give us that there wasn't a lot of time to work on defense. The kids loved it. The parents.....not so much. Every son on that team was a John Elway passing QB destined for greatness. I see many of them now a days with beautiful families and good paying jobs but none made it beyond HS as far as their playing days went.