Negativity

[graceh90]

So what ? They won easily and without challenge against a decent opponent and really didn't play well. You know who can do that ? A really, really good team can. I swear some here expect 100 % perfection every play. The expectations of some are so unrealistic. The constant dwelling on the negative is so silly. It's an outstanding team who in my opinion can go toe to toe with anyone this season. It's been a blast to watch for me and I'll choose to enjoy it going forward and not focus on the things that weren't perfect in their performance.

It has been fun to watch. I agree, this year, on any given Saturday we could be competitive with any team, anywhere.

I think the opportunity that presents itself this year is exactly why some of us are on edge. The pathway has never been clearer.

I think the negativity comes from the fact that we know we are close. It’s far more disappointing to lose when the actual possibility of winning is real

 

[ftnfan62]

Come on, mid level MAC?



Even a poor Xs and Os guy like me know the ND O is better than that. ND can impose itself on the likes of Louisville and Virginia. Reasonable complementing an elite D.

Heck, the ND O managed to hang in there enough to beat a good TAMU team. As well as unfortunately failing catastrophically vs NIU. But as I said earlier, I think the former rather than the latter will be the story in the next 2 games and playoffs.

Even better. Let's hope it's good enough where a famous maxim will be repeated: DEFENSE WINS CHAMPIONSHIPS!

Meaning just yesterday. They took a serious step backwards yesterday, to me. They were firing on all the last few weeks. Something was really off yesterday.

That kicking game is brutal.

 

[banmate6]

Yeah well, that's how it is. It's been that way all year, the trick was scheming around it, and ND has been able to do that beautifully thus far. Hence another blowout, semi-blowout win. Upshot being there are no grounds for significant complaining with this team. Pretty much all phases I think, certainly plain old offense and defense. We even lead the nation in blocked kicks I think. Complaining that we don't pass better is unreasonable because RL sucks as a passer. What would be a fair complaint is if we were unable to account for it, and work around it, which we have. And the offense sucked, and it was hurting us. Which is not the case.

Bottom line, the score was 28-0 at halftime and the game was over. We didn't really have any 'problems'.

It's a subjective call, but there were problems. Not in this specific game overall. But obviously we all extrapolate and have concerns about a playoff game with this kind of O...as obviously VA is not that.

You yourself acknowledge RL has passing issues. Denbrock still hasn't figured out the optimal game plan when this comes to bear. You can't expect 5 turnovers, even with an elite D, to produce wins.

It's just a concern. I'm positive. Like others, just sharing some concerns along this fun ND journey...which has turned out to be pretty cool at this point. 2 more man. Let's get there.

 

[Golson5]

Golson is not a troll. Extremely Notre Dame apologist, though. The current players are elite, the coaches are elite, recruiting is elite, everything is elite.

SC fan here. Lincoln is the greatest benadryl he makes 11 million a year. Doesn't matter they have 5 losses

Notre Dame isn't that good. They lost to NIU. The other 9 games are meaningless

 

[Golson5]

Agree to disagree. But I don't think any top 10 team fears the ND passing attack.

And we don't fear a lot of theirs. Every team this year has major flaws

 

[Golson5]

We regressed this game on offense. I think we had one drive, against UV. The others were very short fields. We did not gain A first down after the initial fumble until the second quarter.

We scored 21 points in the first half on very short fields. We scored one time in the second half on a long run.

You can’t put up one score in the second half with our starters on the field.

Our D is elite but our O is mid-level MAC and it’s going to catch up to us. Dropped passes everywhere. Over throws most deep balls and a game plan that was as bad as I have seen.

Look, if we scored 28 walking up and down the field in the 1h I would not be worried. We did not and we managed 1 long run in the 2nd half and that’s it.

We also need a kicker from the soccer team. In big games you’re not going anywhere without a solid kicker.

So let’s hope that was just a RL and receiver crap show like NIU and he gets back on track.

Lol nonsense

 

[banmate6]

And we don't fear a lot of theirs. Every team this year has major flaws

False comparison. And I think you know better, but have even thicker rose colored glasses than mine. And a cheese eating smile as you type and bamboozle a bit on this.



My friend, the ND O is a concern. The better teams are going to dare RL to beat them with his arm. Again, we will see...but right now it's wishful to say the ND O is comparable to the top 10 outfits.

 

[Pennick4]

So what ? They won easily and without challenge against a decent opponent and really didn't play well. You know who can do that ? A really, really good team can. I swear some here expect 100 % perfection every play. The expectations of some are so unrealistic. The constant dwelling on the negative is so silly. It's an outstanding team who in my opinion can go toe to toe with anyone this season. It's been a blast to watch for me and I'll choose to enjoy it going forward and not focus on the things that weren't perfect in their performance.

Well said.

 

[banmate6]

Well said.

I also echo all this.

Grinding out a win is a quality that is deceptively hard to achieve.

Not to fully go off on a tangent, but we're kinda talking about this on the BK and LSU thread...BK had trouble with this.

I am fully confident the Irish will play to potential...again, not beat the dead horse...let's see what the ceiling is for the O, which most of us agree needs to be better win a NC, even to compete well vs a top 5.

 

[Pennick4]

Apparently ND is the only team in the nation that has scholarship players. 😜

 

[echowaker]

Echo , I am not disagreeing with anything you say. Yes they won rather easily while not playing “ clean”. That is correct. My main point is they need to play better on offense. The offense can be great. The pieces are there. Right now they seem to be hit or miss. Maybe it was just this game. I get it , it happens you aren’t clicking. Hopefully next week they will play better. Nothing wrong with striving for perfection.

Agreed. Striving for it is one thing expecting it isn't realistic.

 

[echowaker]

I agree with these fair points. My sense is ND is legit top 10. Would lose decisively to a top 5. Tossup to remaining foes in the top 10.

I think ND kills Army. USC will be a better but still not heavyweight test. Due to how the schedule has turned out, we're not going to know the truest ND until the playoff.

On a positive note...I agree the offense can get better, as Denbrock candidly said. MF acknowledged it. Announcers. We all know it.

Again, using my 6th sense and eye test...I think the Irish are capable of evolving some more in the next 2 games. Can be really good. But I will say fully: RL will gate ultimate success, our Irish need better QBs.

My take is RL won't run against an elite D and will have to rely on his arm more. I hope I'm wrong. Keep in mind I'm talking about5 NC not playoff potential. Fingers crossed.

I don't think they lose decisively to anyone in college football if they play a clean game.

 

[Golson5]

False comparison. And I think you know better, but have even thicker rose colored glasses than mine. And a cheese eating smile as you type and bamboozle a bit on this.
At


My friend, the ND O is a concern. The better teams are going to dare RL to beat them with his arm. Again, we will see...but right now it's wishful to say the ND O is comparable to the top 10 outfits.

I didn't say that. I said our D doesn't fear a lot of the offense in the top 10 either

I've been saying the OL is a concern all year, my friend. And the wrs dropping the ball has become a major concern in the last month

 

[banmate6]

I don't think they lose decisively to anyone in college football if they play a clean game.

Not to be pedantic, but that is the core issue...a so called clean game.

I think ND can fix the mistakes. Like false stars and holding. But even if they do that, there remain concerns about RL, OL consistency, and Denbrock's play calling.

For me it's to the point where I don't think ND would be strongly competitive vs a top 5. At best, the Irish give it a worthy fight, but the outcome wouldn't be in doubt. This follows history under BK...MF also has this burden of proof.

But we will see. I'm hopeful and certainly will be rooting to be proven wrong.

 

[banmate6]

I didn't say that. I said our D doesn't fear a lot of the offense in the top 10 either

I've been saying the OL is a concern all year, my friend. And the wrs dropping the ball has become a major concern in the last month

Fair enough, you're getting close to the truth with this clarification.



I still say our D has more to fear from elite team O's than their D's have to fear from the ND O.

 

[savvyandsassier]

It's a subjective call, but there were problems. Not in this specific game overall. But obviously we all extrapolate and have concerns about a playoff game with this kind of O...as obviously VA is not that.

You yourself acknowledge RL has passing issues. Denbrock still hasn't figured out the optimal game plan when this comes to bear. You can't expect 5 turnovers, even with an elite D, to produce wins.

It's just a concern. I'm positive. Like others, just sharing some concerns along this fun ND journey...which has turned out to be pretty cool at this point. 2 more man. Let's get there.

I would just say there's a point at which you are asking too much. And it's just barking at the moon. We're about at that point. The defense is stellar, there are absolutely no complaints. The offense seems very effective, and complements the dominance of the defense more than amply, even if we don't have a light-it-up passing attack, which of course we don't have and there would never be any serious expectation to have, both because RL isn't good enough, even though he seems totally serviceable, but moreover because we've adjusted or structured our offense around more of a run first dual threat approach, so its not even on the menu anymore. Even though his passing stats are respectable, which speaks volumes about how well and how effectively and efficiently the offense is performing as it's apparently designed and schemed for. And we still get plenty of yards through the air. And he makes some decent throws, like the one that got called back.

But I don't know, maybe our kicker sucks. Hate to lose a big playoff game on a missed FG or botched extra point.

So I'm impressed. Al Golden was an inspired hire, and MF is a defensive guy himself. And Denbrock seems like he's been lights out as well. So I don't agree that Denbrock has underperformed or underutilized, I think he's schemed brilliantly. To the untrained eye it seems that way. Plus I think Denbrock thrives with a dual threat QB. That's the only reason I'm thinking maybe we go to the portal again. Our current HS commit is very much a dual threat. But none of the QBs on the roster are.

And it's a message board so anybody can say anything they want anytime. It just at this particular juncture it kind of rings hollow. We look like legit contenders with a bullet. Notwithstanding that we are not a perfect team, totally formidable in all aspects of the sport. We are what we are, and it could be good enough to win it all. If the win over A&M is actually indicative of our ability vs SEC caliber rosters. And not that our schedule is so weak that all our success is something of a mirage.

 

[Golson5]

Not to be pedantic, but that is the core issue...a so called clean game.

I think ND can fix the mistakes. Like false stars and holding. But even if they do that, there remain concerns about RL, OL consistency, and Denbrock's play calling.

For me it's to the point where I don't think ND would be strongly competitive vs a top 5. At best, the Irish give it a worthy fight, but the outcome wouldn't be in doubt. This follows history under BK...MF also has this burden of proof.

But we will see. I'm hopeful and certainly will be rooting to be proven wrong.

You are only pointing out NDs flaws. Refusing to look at other teams

Wiskys D shut down Oregon. Osu offense hasn't been overly explosive. They lost their best OL and their qb is average. Texas offense comes and goes. Ped state meh. They have a great te and a solid wr but no one on their roster scares anyone. Boise state, come on. They have 1 guy

We have our offensive issues. But so does everyone else. There is no dominant team this year. There is no 2019 LSU offense or 20 Bamas

 

[Golson5]

Fair enough, you're getting close to the truth with this clarification.



I still say our D has more to fear from elite team O's than their D's have to fear from the ND O.

What "elite" teams or offenses are out there? I haven't seen any

 

[savvyandsassier]

Agreed. Striving for it is one thing expecting it isn't realistic.

Exactly. I'm sure they're always striving for it. Every single snap of the football. And that's especially true for this team, they look well coached with high morale and want-to.

 

[banmate6]

What "elite" teams or offenses are out there? I haven't seen any

Elite as in complete package. Where the whole > sum of the parts by some measure. MF most games has ND > sum of the parts, withstanding howlers like NIU.

Roughly speaking...and we can tweak this: sum = O + D + ST + MF + coaching + key role players like RL. I guess we could theoretically weight each...don't have too, but you see the idea. The MF factor is that special charisma where you can be > the remaining sums.

The top 5 ultimate have a greater whole.

BTW: I've watched O including yesterday. Damn good team. U cannot compare their schedule to ND. If you were forced to bet your net worth...you'd bet on O over ND? My heart would obviously be on ND, but not my net worth.

 

[Golson5]

Elite as in complete package. Where the whole > sum of the parts by some measure. MF most games has ND > sum of the parts, withstanding howlers like NIU.

Roughly speaking...and we can tweak this: sum = O + D + ST + MF + coaching + key role players like RL. I guess we could theoretically weight each...don't have too, but you see the idea. The MF factor is that special charisma where you can be > the remaining sums.

The top 5 ultimate have a greater whole.

BTW: I've watched O including yesterday. Damn good team. U cannot compare their schedule to ND. If you were forced to bet your net worth...you'd bet on O over ND? My heart would obviously be on ND, but not my net worth.

Oregon? I think they are a good team. Not a damn good team.

On a neutral field, I would favor Oregon slightly but would not be surprised if we won at all

I dont think they are our toughest matchup. I don't think they are the going to win the NC

Oregon btw, has played 2 ranked teams this year, and won those 2 games by a combined 4 points. Both at home for them

 

[savvyandsassier]

Only thing that sucks about how good we're playing is it's a bit boring. The games are never in doubt, it's not really that great to watch. It's not unpleasant, there's just no competitive suspense at all. That is kind of the fun of watching sports.

 

[banmate6]

Oregon? I think they are a good team. Not a damn good team.

On a neutral field, I would favor Oregon slightly but would not be surprised if we won at all

I dont think they are our toughest matchup. I don't think they are the going to win the NC

Oregon btw, has played 2 ranked teams this year, and won those 2 games by a combined 4 points. Both at home for them

Oregon, Georgia, yes Alabama, Texas, and Ohio State stand out for me. Penn State, Tennessee and TAU are interesting. These in my view are the primary ND opponents.

All the aforementioned will operate in a different context in the playoffs...rested and ready. Not the same as the grind of decent schedules.

Again, we will see. That's why the games are played. Never 100%, but I'd place some bets a certain way.

 

[BGI User 756]

Haha you nailed it.. the dude has two opinions which have been posted ad nauseam for weeks. Quite concerning how much time he spends here for this:

1/ makes a point to defend EVERY single negative BK or USC posts.
2/ responds to positive MF posts with NIU.

Boom. I believe he is a bigot

 

[banmate6]

I would just say there's a point at which you are asking too much. And it's just barking at the moon. We're about at that point. The defense is stellar, there are absolutely no complaints. The offense seems very effective, and complements the dominance of the defense more than amply, even if we don't have a light-it-up passing attack, which of course we don't have and there would never be any serious expectation to have, both because RL isn't good enough, even though he seems totally serviceable, but moreover because we've adjusted or structured our offense around more of a run first dual threat approach, so its not even on the menu anymore. Even though his passing stats are respectable, which speaks volumes about how well and how effectively and efficiently the offense is performing as it's apparently designed and schemed for. And we still get plenty of yards through the air. And he makes some decent throws, like the one that got called back.

But I don't know, maybe our kicker sucks. Hate to lose a big playoff game on a missed FG or botched extra point.

So I'm impressed. Al Golden was an inspired hire, and MF is a defensive guy himself. And Denbrock seems like he's been lights out as well. So I don't agree that Denbrock has underperformed or underutilized, I think he's schemed brilliantly. To the untrained eye it seems that way. Plus I think Denbrock thrives with a dual threat QB. That's the only reason I'm thinking maybe we go to the portal again. Our current HS commit is very much a dual threat. But none of the QBs on the roster are.

And it's a message board so anybody can say anything they want anytime. It just at this particular juncture it kind of rings hollow. We look like legit contenders with a bullet. Notwithstanding that we are not a perfect team, totally formidable in all aspects of the sport. We are what we are, and it could be good enough to win it all. If the win over A&M is actually indicative of our ability vs SEC caliber rosters. And not that our schedule is so weak that all our success is something of a mirage.

You make many good points. But actually corroborate many of our concerns about wining vs the best. Namely the discussion about the O, highlighting in your post.

What your wrote is the discussion, a legitimate one at that. It's not asking too much, just discussing it. From a wishful and partisan perspective.

I ultimately feel the ND O is not there yet and will need to be better to beat the better teams in the playoffs.

 

[FightingIrish44]

BTW: I've watched O including yesterday. Damn good team. U cannot compare their schedule to ND. If you were forced to bet your net worth...you'd bet on O over ND? My heart would obviously be on ND, but not my net worth.

I’d have little problem betting on Oregon. Actually, the more I think about it, the more I like ND’s chances but I’d have to pick Oregon for the time being.

About the schedules. Do you mean their schedule is so much better than ND’s? Their schedules are very comparable. Oregon played an FCS and Boise State probably isn’t really a top 15 team. They will have played 9 Power 4 opponents so they have that over ND, but ND has solid group of 5 opponents and no FCS opponents. They’re very comparable.

 

[sjb75]

Oregon? I think they are a good team. Not a damn good team.

On a neutral field, I would favor Oregon slightly but would not be surprised if we won at all

I dont think they are our toughest matchup. I don't think they are the going to win the NC

Oregon btw, has played 2 ranked teams this year, and won those 2 games by a combined 4 points. Both at home for them

One of the "ranked teams..." that Oregon defeated was Ohio St. When you beat Ohio St., it's worth mentioning....not just referring to the Buckeyes as a "...ranked team..."

 

[savvyandsassier]

You make many good points. But actually corroborate many of our concerns about wining vs the best. Namely the discussion about the O, highlighting in your post.

What your wrote is the discussion, a legitimate one at that. It's not asking too much, just discussing it. From a wishful and partisan perspective.

I ultimately feel the ND O is not there yet and will need to be better to beat the better teams in the playoffs.

You could be right about that. Maybe we won't beat the better teams in the playoffs. All we know is we beat A&M. And basically rolled over everyone else. And the offense is what it is, it's not a juggernaut. Personally, I don't think there's anything to even be done, if there ever was. Can't turn water into wine. Just try to maximize what you have, and I feel like Denbrock gets pretty full marks for that. But I guess we don't see eye to eye on that score.

Anyway, assuming we run what's left of the table, MF gets a solid 'A' for the season. And hopefully we host a playoff game.

 

[banmate6]

I’d have little problem betting on Oregon. Actually, the more I think about it, the more I like ND’s chances but I’d have to pick Oregon for the time being.

About the schedules. Do you mean their schedule is so much better than ND’s? Their schedules are very comparable. Oregon played an FCS and Boise State probably isn’t really a top 15 team. They will have played 9 Power 4 opponents so they have that over ND, but ND has solid group of 5 opponents and no FCS opponents. They’re very comparable.

Oregon to me has a solid schedule. They beat Ohio State, Michigan, Boise State, Wisconsin,, Illinois, and have Washington coming. As well as a conference championship. That is a decent gauntlet, unlike what ND has faced. 9 power opponents is not some small margin of difference...and they didn't pull an NIU, which speaks to quality as well.

I don't see at all how they can be comparable schedules.

Consider also that Oregon travels far, with consistent time zone challenges.

 

[banmate6]

You could be right about that. Maybe we won't beat the better teams in the playoffs. All we know is we beat A&M. And basically rolled over everyone else. And the offense is what it is, it's not a juggernaut. Personally, I don't think there's anything to even be done, if there ever was. Can't turn water into wine. Just try to maximize what you have, and I feel like Denbrock gets pretty full marks for that. But I guess we don't see eye to eye on that score.

Anyway, assuming we run what's left of the table, MF gets a solid 'A' for the season. And hopefully we host a playoff game.

I am not looking for wine, a proverbial miracle. But rather stronger water. Hard water. Maybe getting RL to be more consistent on deep targets, getting opposing defenses to stop daring him in stacking their lines against the run?

I still believe ND wins out and gets to the playoffs. With good hopes of winning 1st game, but true test comes later against 1 of those teams we discussed...unless the Irish start immediately with such a team.

 

[FightingIrish44]

Oregon to me has a solid schedule. They beat Ohio State, Michigan, Boise State, Wisconsin,, Illinois, and have Washington coming. As well as a conference championship. That is a decent gauntlet, unlike what ND has faced. 9 power opponents is not some small margin of difference...and they didn't pull an NIU, which speaks to quality as well.

I don't see at all how they can be comparable schedules.

Consider also that Oregon travels far, with consistent time zone challenges.

You’re going to give credit for Illinois, Michigan, and Wisconsin, but you won’t give the same credit to ND for Louisville, GT, Virginia. How are those teams so much better on Oregon’s schedule?

Why won’t you give credit to ND for USC? They beat Wisconsin and have been more consistent than Wisconsin.

 

[sjb75]

Oregon to me has a solid schedule. They beat Ohio State, Michigan, Boise State, Wisconsin,, Illinois, and have Washington coming. As well as a conference championship. That is a decent gauntlet, unlike what ND has faced. 9 power opponents is not some small margin of difference...and they didn't pull an NIU, which speaks to quality as well.

I don't see at all how they can be comparable schedules.

Consider also that Oregon travels far, with consistent time zone challenges.

Oregon, IMO, has played a tougher schedule than Notre Dame. Simply beating Ohio St. swings it in their favor.

 

[ftnfan62]

Lol nonsense

You don’t think 1-12 on 3rd against a UV team is regression? I saw 1 sustained drive and one busted run. The rest was handed to them with 5 TO’s. Our defense is great, but you’re not going to hold the top 5 to 14 nor get 5 TO’s. You have to score. Yesterday was not a good day for our O. They better get back to execution and kicking or it’s a short lived win.

 

[BGI User 756]

Oregon to me has a solid schedule. They beat Ohio State, Michigan, Boise State, Wisconsin,, Illinois, and have Washington coming. As well as a conference championship. That is a decent gauntlet, unlike what ND has faced. 9 power opponents is not some small margin of difference...and they didn't pull an NIU, which speaks to quality as well.

I don't see at all how they can be comparable schedules.

Consider also that Oregon travels far, with consistent time zone challenges.

This year….Mich, Wisky, Boise are not their usual strong programs …so aren’t as daunting as one would think

 

[sjb75]

You’re going to give credit for Illinois, Michigan, and Wisconsin, but you won’t give the same credit to ND for Louisville, GT, Virginia. How are those teams so much better on Oregon’s schedule?

Why won’t you give credit to ND for USC? They beat Wisconsin and have been more consistent than Wisconsin.

I simply give credit to Oregon for going through their first Big 10 schedule undefeated, if they can beat Washington, an intense rivalry game, in 2 weeks. That is tough to do, credit to Dan Lanning and his staff.

While I believe Travis Hunter should win the Heisman Trophy, Oregon QB Dillon Gabriel should be a finalist. Damn good CFB dual threat QB.

 

[echowaker]

Not to be pedantic, but that is the core issue...a so called clean game.

I think ND can fix the mistakes. Like false stars and holding. But even if they do that, there remain concerns about RL, OL consistency, and Denbrock's play calling.

For me it's to the point where I don't think ND would be strongly competitive vs a top 5. At best, the Irish give it a worthy fight, but the outcome wouldn't be in doubt. This follows history under BK...MF also has this burden of proof.

But we will see. I'm hopeful and certainly will be rooting to be proven wrong.

I think Denbrock has been fantastic.

 

[Golson5]

Oregon to me has a solid schedule. They beat Ohio State, Michigan, Boise State, Wisconsin,, Illinois, and have Washington coming. As well as a conference championship. That is a decent gauntlet, unlike what ND has faced. 9 power opponents is not some small margin of difference...and they didn't pull an NIU, which speaks to quality as well.

I don't see at all how they can be comparable schedules.

Consider also that Oregon travels far, with consistent

How is Michigan and Wisconsin considered good lol

The sec and big 10 bias is wild

 

[echowaker]

Oregon, Georgia, yes Alabama, Texas, and Ohio State stand out for me. Penn State, Tennessee and TAU are interesting. These in my view are the primary ND opponents.

All the aforementioned will operate in a different context in the playoffs...rested and ready. Not the same as the grind of decent schedules.

Again, we will see. That's why the games are played. Never 100%, but I'd place some bets a certain way.

Texas ? Their best win is at Vandy.

 

[Golson5]

You don’t think 1-12 on 3rd against a UV team is regression? I saw 1 sustained drive and one busted run. The rest was handed to them with 5 TO’s. Our defense is great, but you’re not going to hold the top 5 to 14 nor get 5 TO’s. You have to score. Yesterday was not a good day for our O. They better get back to execution and kicking or it’s a short lived win.

You called the offense a mid level mac offense. That was what I laughed at and called it out as nonsense

 

[banmate6]

You’re going to give credit for Illinois, Michigan, and Wisconsin, but you won’t give the same credit to ND for Louisville, GT, Virginia. How are those teams so much better on Oregon’s schedule?

Why won’t you give credit to ND for USC? They beat Wisconsin and have been more consistent than Wisconsin.

I think the BIG has better teams and is more competitive than the ACC. No fault of ND. But Oregon had the edge here in scheduling and is a good team in my eye test.