Kelly blames everyone/everything but himself

[john0gaunt]

Four stars is irrelevant. The difference between 4 and 5 star players is negligible. Within the realm of human error.


Sssooo...Give me the three star players he...himself...put into "the league"


He isn't a "good" coach. He's fools gold.

Worked harder than CW and TW on the recruiting trail but still needed to do a lot more.

Back to your statement I'll gladly listen to the 3 star players that BK put in "the league"

Waiting.....

Chris Finke. 0 stars. Walk on. KC Chiefs
Ian Book 3 stars NO Saints
Claypool was #22 receiver in his class. Pulled him from Canada. Steelers.
Will Fuller was #19 receiver in class. NFL.
TJ Jones 3 stars Lions
Josh Adams 3 stars Saints
Tranquill 3 stars Chargers
JOK 3 stars Browns
Prosise 3 stars Seahawks

One zero star, six 3 star. Claypool and Fuller had 4 star but way down the list.

 

[Golson5]

Four stars is irrelevant. The difference between 4 and 5 star players is negligible. Within the realm of human error.


Sssooo...Give me the three star players he...himself...put into "the league"


He isn't a "good" coach. He's fools gold.

Worked harder than CW and TW on the recruiting trail but still needed to do a lot more.

Back to your statement I'll gladly listen to the 3 star players that BK put in "the league"

Waiting.....

He didn't work harder than CW on the trail

 

[88ND]

Chris Finke. 0 stars. Walk on. KC Chiefs
Ian Book 3 stars NO Saints
Claypool was #22 receiver in his class. Pulled him from Canada. Steelers.
Will Fuller was #19 receiver in class. NFL.
TJ Jones 3 stars Lions
Josh Adams 3 stars Saints
Tranquill 3 stars Chargers
JOK 3 stars Browns

One zero star, five 3 star. Claypool and Fuller had 4 star but way down the list.

Remove Claypool and Fuller. They weren't 3 stars...

Six players? Holy shit stop the presses.

 

[NDinNJ]

Remove Claypool and Fuller. They weren't 3 stars...

Six players? Holy shit stop the presses.

In 12 years. That's .5 players/year lol

 

[GrumpyLeprechaun]

I just wanna know why Coach Ed O is on Campus????? Is Freeman hiring him

 

[88ND]

In 12 years. That's .5 players/year lol

Earth shattering.
I mean...shit.
Leahy
Rockne
Holtz...

Move on over guys.....There's a new sheriff in town fully armed with a chef and training table.

Look out!!!

 

[john0gaunt]

Remove Claypool and Fuller. They weren't 3 stars...

Six players? Holy shit stop the presses.

You said there were none. You were wrong. That's all. I could also remove Finke, who had zero stars. Did you want me to look for 1 and 2 stars also?

The point is, you were wrong...

 

[GrumpyLeprechaun]

Partially under Weis, not Kelly.

nope. under Kelly. Weis wanted the training table and was told No. Because a Priest liked the idea that the football players would eat with the student body. Kelly got the training table on day 1

 

[GrumpyLeprechaun]

Why wouldn’t you want a chef dedicated to preparing meals for all of the athletic teams ?

What’s the downside ?

that the players dont eat with the students

 

[Harpo Marxist]

The losses in the title and playoff games were consistently one-sided. ND's regular season schedule during the regular seasons where ND was in those post season games were favorable enough to get the invite in spite of schedule weaknesses. IOW....ND was lucky to get those invites in some cases, where the SEC was stacked at the top of the standings. Kelly was an embarrassment in practically all of those games, as if a different team showed up than was playing in regular season. ND was fortunate that the invites continued in spite of the bad losses post season prior. I am particularly glad to not entertain further press conferences from his snarky, imperial perspective. He didn't hate "losing" enough, in my view...and instead, expressed a "you're lucky I got you this far" attitude in those pressers. Glad he's gone.

 

[Zorich 88]

Thankfully not ND. He's LSU's problem now, and won't last more than 5 years

Was Kelly successful at ND?

 

[88ND]

You said there were none. You were wrong. That's all. I could also remove Finke, who had zero stars. Did you want me to look for 1 and 2 stars also?

The point is, you were wrong...

Wrong about what? The fact I assumed you understood that "none" was a generalized statement as in not many; hardly any; insignificant; etc
Yes I was wrong for assuming you understood what I meant.

That said, pardon me if I don't share in your celebration of Brian Kelly being good at getting one three star player to the NFL every other year. That's negligible to me. Carrying a roster of 85 on scholarship and 100 plus players overall often times....every single year...
Those six players you provided over a dozen years is simply insignificant.

By all means you rally around that and I'll respect that.

Big picture the numbers don't lie. He's a lousy coach. Results confirm that.
Example...how on earth @ ND in a dozen years could he go winless in every major bowl/playoff.
Every single one. That's pretty talented right there to evade victory. Even an accidental victory was avoided. Now you have to really try to achieve that or you really are incompetent at what you're doing.
Those results weren't even close. It's not like he just had a run of bad luck. Oh, no sir! Those games were embarrassing performances. Every single one including his stint @ Cincinnati.

The great defendOR's and apologists of Brian Kelly will say he can't get the material at Notre Dame. Restrictions restrictions restrictions. WTFE.

As I said a million times...we can play an elite in the regular season and the score be close. That kills the material argument.

Playing an elite in a major bowl/playoff and the score is embarrassing....
That cements the poor coaching argument.

But hey man...he got 6 three stars to the NFL.

Training table and chef...
Oh what could've been. 🙃

 

[john0gaunt]

Point is, you were “waiting” (your words) for one example, I gave you six. And you ignore Finke.

Listen, I’m a big Holtz fan, had him in my kitchen doing magic tricks for a recruit and family. That said, can you name one walk on that Lou put into the league?

To quote you, I’ll wait…

 

[88ND]

Point is, you were “waiting” (your words) for one example, I gave you six. And you ignore Finke.

Listen, I’m a big Holtz fan, had him in my kitchen doing magic tricks for a recruit and family. That said, can you name one walk on that Lou put into the league?

To quote you, I’ll wait…

I didn't ignore Finke....but I fail to see this Hallmark angle you're working in trying to celebrate someone who's success is based on performance of the collective efforts.

You're reaching here.

Moreover just look at an NFL roster sometime and where they went to school. Alabama to Bloomsburg. Ohio State to William and Mary.
The NFL has always been littered with "three star" or "no star" players yet you’re promoting BK because 6 kids not of 4 star or higher got into the NFL over 12 years?

This is where the defense of BK has reached now?

Good lord

 

[john0gaunt]

I didn't ignore Finke....but I fail to see this Hallmark angle you're working in trying to celebrate someone who's success is based on performance of the collective efforts.

You're reaching here.

Moreover just look at an NFL roster sometime and where they went to school. Alabama to Bloomsburg. Ohio State to William and Mary.
The NFL has always been littered with "three star" or "no star" players yet you’re promoting BK because 6 kids not of 4 star or higher got into the NFL over 12 years?

This is where the defense of BK has reached now?

Good lord

Is this your way of saying you have nothing? Just one walk on put into the league. I’m still waiting..

 

[88ND]

Is this your way of saying you have nothing? Just one walk on put into the league. I’m still waiting..

WTF are you talking about?
How many walk on's Holtz put in the NFL?

Who gives a shit. Seriously.

I say again if this is your way of celebrating BK's tenure then perhaps I can send you some participation trophies for such the daunting feat.?!

 

[john0gaunt]

WTF are you talking about?
How many walk on's Holtz put in the NFL?

Who gives a shit. Seriously.

You said BK didn't put any 3 stars into the league. I showed you 6. Plus a walk on. You mentioned Holtz. So I asked you for one example of Holtz putting a walk on into the league. This caused you to became a little unhinged and abusive. It's ok to be wrong. And you were wrong.

I'm not a BK fan. I'm the one who thinks Weis left the program in better shape than Kelly.

But you called me out saying BK didn't put the 3 stars in the league. I only offered you an opportunity to prove your point. You became unhinged.

It's cool. I know a lot of people that respond like you. In prison.

 

[NDinNJ]

Was Kelly successful at ND?

That depends on who you ask. BK supporters would say yes, and point to the 10+ win seasons and top 10 finishes. The haters would say no, and point to the zero major bowl wins, lopsided losses, and abysmal record vs Top 10 teams.

I believe history will show that he was a solid, above average coach, who turned the program around, but failed to elevate the program to the next level. He'll be looked at as a tier 2 coach at ND, not at the level of Rockne, Leahy, Ara, Devine, and Holtz, but better than his predecessors Weis, Willingham, and Davie.

Elmer Layden coached ND for 7 years, has a better winning percentage than Kelly, and like Kelly never won a championship. Layden to his credit is best known as a player at ND, where he did win a championship, but not so much as a coach. No one talks about how great a coach Layden was, and that's how Kelly's coaching tenure will be remembered in 40-50 years.

 

[88ND]

You said BK didn't put any 3 stars into the league. I showed you 6. Plus a walk on. You mentioned Holtz. So I asked you for one example of Holtz putting a walk on into the league. This caused you to became a little unhinged and abusive. It's ok to be wrong. And you were wrong.

I'm not a BK fan. I'm the one who thinks Weis left the program in better shape than Kelly.

But you called me out saying BK didn't put the 3 stars in the league. I only offered you an opportunity to prove your point. You became unhinged.

It's cool. I know a lot of people that respond like you. In prison.

Are you ok?
Allow me to show you EXACTLY what I said...

"Four stars is irrelevant. The difference between 4 and 5 star players is negligible. Within the realm of human error.


Sssooo...Give me the three star players he...himself...put into "the league"


He isn't a "good" coach. He's fools gold.

Worked harder than CW and TW on the recruiting trail but still needed to do a lot more.

Back to your statement I'll gladly listen to the 3 star players that BK put in "the league"

Waiting....."

Looks to me like I NEVER said he didn't get any 3 stars in the NFL.

YOU SAID "A LOT"...
I said show me....because again you said
"A LOT"....
you showed alright.... 6 players

That said you shot your mouth off that he got "a lot" of 3 and 4 star guys in the league.
I explained to you the difference between 4 and 5 star players is negligible.
So you pony up six 3 star players. That's your version of "a lot"???
Hilarious.
Again celebrating one 3 star player every other year getting into the pro's is the new Brian Kelly defense..??

Good god...

Six 3 star players in twelve years....and the fact you celebrate that....

BTW...
I know people that shoot their mouth off with exaggerations and incapable of comprehending and or misquoting people

Exactly the behavior of psycho liberals who aren't very bright whatsoever.

 

[NDinNJ]

Are you ok?
Allow me to show you EXACTLY what I said...

"Four stars is irrelevant. The difference between 4 and 5 star players is negligible. Within the realm of human error.


Sssooo...Give me the three star players he...himself...put into "the league"


He isn't a "good" coach. He's fools gold.

Worked harder than CW and TW on the recruiting trail but still needed to do a lot more.

Back to your statement I'll gladly listen to the 3 star players that BK put in "the league"

Waiting....."

Looks to me like I NEVER said he didn't get any 3 stars in the NFL.

YOU SAID "A LOT"...
I said show me....because again you said
"A LOT"....
you showed alright.... 6 players

That said you shot your mouth off that he got "a lot" of 3 and 4 star guys in the league.
I explained to you the difference between 4 and 5 star players is negligible.
So you pony up six 3 star players. That's your version of "a lot"???
Hilarious.
Again celebrating one 3 star player every other year getting into the pro's is the new Brian Kelly defense..??

Good god...

Six 3 star players in twelve years....and the fact you celebrate that....

BTW...
I know people that shoot their mouth off with exaggerations and incapable of comprehending and or misquoting people

Exactly the behavior of psycho liberals who aren't very bright whatsoever.

BK did not out recruit Weis. Weis brought in 5 star elites, Weis failed with depth, and the lines.

 

[88ND]

Was Kelly successful at ND?

No!!!!!!!

I'm not talking about titles. That's such an unrealistic barometer. Everything needs to go right and you still need some luck.

IMO the good coach/lousy coach metric is what games did he in fact win and was he competitive more times than not.

Let's use Tom Osborne as an example. Early on he was good. He was also competitive in the elite games or major bowl games. The title just eluded him. 83 going for the win against Miami. If he ties the game they win the title. He went for two points and lost the game and the title.

1993 against FSU...everyone talks about us getting the shaft but remember he had a chance to beat the Creminoles with his undefeated Husker team but missed the field goal.

Then it all just clicked and stars aligned winning 3 titles in 4 years.

Along the way until the titles he won several major bowl games...was competitve (could've won) in most of the major bowl losses. Not all but most.

That to me is the definition of a good/great coach.

Brian Kelly in his entire career has never once been competitive in a major bowl/playoff game. Not once.

I ask...how in the hell, in this day and age, where everyone scores points could he never even be competitive one time in those settings. Forget titles. Just competitive. In other words a lucky break here or there...a good call by a ref here or there and a victory.
He has never ever been in that position to benefit from some good fortune in thosr games because it's a complete lopsided affair. Always.
Cinci or South Bend no matter. Same result.

Regular season games against top competition he's been competitive. (Not always but sometimes)
4 weeks prep time and it's amateur hour on full display by Brian Kelly.

He's not a good coach.

Fools gold.

 

[raycyrx]

That depends on who you ask. BK supporters would say yes, and point to the 10+ win seasons and top 10 finishes. The haters would say no, and point to the zero major bowl wins, lopsided losses, and abysmal record vs Top 10 teams.

I believe history will show that he was a solid, above average coach, who turned the program around, but failed to elevate the program to the next level. He'll be looked at as a tier 2 coach at ND, not at the level of Rockne, Leahy, Ara, Devine, and Holtz, but better than his predecessors Weis, Willingham, and Davie.

Elmer Layden coached ND for 7 years, has a better winning percentage than Kelly, and like Kelly never won a championship. Layden to his credit is best known as a player at ND, where he did win a championship, but not so much as a coach. No one talks about how great a coach Layden was, and that's how Kelly's coaching tenure will be remembered in 40-50 years.

Hear hear!

 

[88ND]

BK did not out recruit Weis. Weis brought in 5 star elites, Weis failed with depth, and the lines.

I agree CW hit more homeruns but he wasn't as thorough. Not saying BK is the benchmark in the recruiting world but once the wheels fell off after CW's players werw gone he started putting more importance on the collection of players rather than home runs but huge holes elsewhere

 

[Zorich 88]

So, a coach that has the following resume is not a successful coach????

1. multiple 12-0 seasons
2. Made it to the championship game.
3. Multiple playoff/final 4 appearances.
4. Dominated rivals SC and Stanford.
5. Wins ACC West Championship.

Looks successful to me

 

[Zorich 88]

That depends on who you ask. BK supporters would say yes, and point to the 10+ win seasons and top 10 finishes. The haters would say no, and point to the zero major bowl wins, lopsided losses, and abysmal record vs Top 10 teams.

I believe history will show that he was a solid, above average coach, who turned the program around, but failed to elevate the program to the next level. He'll be looked at as a tier 2 coach at ND, not at the level of Rockne, Leahy, Ara, Devine, and Holtz, but better than his predecessors Weis, Willingham, and Davie.

Elmer Layden coached ND for 7 years, has a better winning percentage than Kelly, and like Kelly never won a championship. Layden to his credit is best known as a player at ND, where he did win a championship, but not so much as a coach. No one talks about how great a coach Layden was, and that's how Kelly's coaching tenure will be remembered in 40-50 years.

How many undefeated seasons did Elmer Layden?

 

[Golson5]

So, a coach that has the following resume is not a successful coach????

1. multiple 12-0 seasons
2. Made it to the championship game.
3. Multiple playoff/final 4 appearances.
4. Dominated rivals SC and Stanford.
5. Wins ACC West Championship.

Looks successful to me

We didn't dominate Stanford. And they aren't a rival

 

[NDinNJ]

How many undefeated seasons did Elmer Layden?

Zero, just like Kelly. Kelly had zero undefeated seasons, he lost in every bowl game.

 

[NDinNJ]

So, a coach that has the following resume is not a successful coach????

1. multiple 12-0 seasons
2. Made it to the championship game.
3. Multiple playoff/final 4 appearances.
4. Dominated rivals SC and Stanford.
5. Wins ACC West Championship.

Looks successful to me

Fools Gold.
1. Multiple 12-0 seasons (Watered Down scheduling and a down USC)
2. Made it to the championship game and got completely owned. While Saban was game planning, Kelly was out interviewing for the Eagles head coaching gig.
3. Multiple playoff /Final appearances, and ZERO wins in those games, not only zero wins but he was repeatedly schooled, showing over and over again he had no business being in those games.
4. Wins ACC west championship. What are you talking about? there is only an ACC championship game and Kelly got throttled again as was his M.O.

 

[Zorich 88]

We didn't dominate Stanford. And they aren't a rival

Notre Dame plays Stanford every year. That my friend is a rivalry. ND and Stanford have played 31 straight seasons minus the Covid season.

Yes, dominated!!!

Last two games vs the Tree’s
45-14
45-24

 

[Zorich 88]

Zero, just like Kelly. Kelly had zero undefeated seasons, he lost in every bowl game.

12-0 seasons

 

[Zorich 88]

Fools Gold.
1. Multiple 12-0 seasons (Watered Down scheduling and a down USC)
2. Made it to the championship game and got completely owned. While Saban was game planning, Kelly was out interviewing for the Eagles head coaching gig.
3. Multiple playoff /Final appearances, and ZERO wins in those games, not only zero wins but he was repeatedly schooled, showing over and over again he had no business being in those games.
4. Wins ACC west championship. What are you talking about? there is only an ACC championship game and Kelly got throttled again as was his M.O.

Any coach with the above resume is successful!

Is Kelly a great coach? Nope.

Is Kelly a successful coach? Yes

I know, you can’t stand Kelly. So your dislike for him has blurred your vision.

 

[Golson5]

Notre Dame plays Stanford every year. That my friend is a rivalry. ND and Stanford have played 31 straight seasons minus the Covid season.

Yes, dominated!!!

Last two games vs the Tree’s
45-14
45-24

It's not a rivalry friend. But if it was BK failed us in our rivalry game

His record against Stanford was 5 and 6. And they arent even a football school

Who dominated who?

 

[Zorich 88]

It's not a rivalry friend. But if it was BK failed us in our rivalry game

His record against Stanford was 5 and 6. And they arent even a football school

Who dominated who?

Playing a team 31 years in a row is a rival. If it wasn’t a rival then why play a team 31 straight years? Especially since it has nothing to do with conference play.

I never said Kelly dominated any series. I said he dominated a rival.

 

[Zorich 88]

Fools Gold.
1. Multiple 12-0 seasons (Watered Down scheduling and a down USC)
2. Made it to the championship game and got completely owned. While Saban was game planning, Kelly was out interviewing for the Eagles head coaching gig.
3. Multiple playoff /Final appearances, and ZERO wins in those games, not only zero wins but he was repeatedly schooled, showing over and over again he had no business being in those games.
4. Wins ACC west championship. What are you talking about? there is only an ACC championship game and Kelly got throttled again as was his M.O.

ND won the ACC division.

So basically, you are saying ND has sucked the past 30 years and the past 10 years were all failures.

 

[NDinNJ]

ND won the ACC division.

So basically, you are saying ND has sucked the past 30 years and the past 10 years were all failures.

Kelly beat who he was supposed to beat, but failed miserably when faced with a superior coach with less, equal or better talent. Fickell beat his a$$ with a bunch of 2-3 star talent. I could go on with Kelly getting outcoached, but i digress.

 

[Golson5]

Playing a team 31 years in a row is a rival. If it wasn’t a rival then why play a team 31 straight years? Especially since it has nothing to do with conference play.

I never said Kelly dominated any series. I said he dominated a rival.

Wow in 2 games. Big deal. They won more games than they lost to BK. That is unacceptable.

And i dont consider them a rival. They are not a football school. There is no animosity between teams or fanbases. It's a game we play every year because we want to have a prescence in Cali and they are a high academic school

 

[Zorich 88]

Wow in 2 games. Big deal. They won more games than they lost to BK. That is unacceptable.

And i dont consider them a rival. They are not a football school. There is no animosity between teams or fanbases. It's a game we play every year because we want to have a prescence in Cali and they are a high academic school

Then why has ND played them for 3 straight decades???
So basically, you are saying SC is the only rival still on the schedule every year.

When any team plays a team 30 straight years it’s a rival. It might not be the most heated rival but it is a rival.

They even play for a trophy lol

The Legends Trophy Rivalry​

This article kind of sums of the rivalry

Stanford vs. Notre Dame: A Rivalry Nearly 100 Years in the Making

slapthesign.com

 

[Zorich 88]

Kelly beat who he was supposed to beat, but failed miserably when faced with a superior coach with less, equal or better talent. Fickell beat his a$$ with a bunch of 2-3 star talent. I could go on with Kelly getting outcoached, but i digress.

Right, so basically you are saying ND has sucked for 3 decades and the past 10 were a failure.

 

[NDinNJ]

Right, so basically you are saying ND has sucked for 3 decades and the past 10 were a failure.

As I stated in a previous comment in this thread. Kelly was a solid above average coach. 40-50 years from now he won't be remembered as a great/successful coach, not when success is measured by wins on the biggest of stages and championships. He's the Elmer Layden of our time, top 10 winning percentage, but no championships. It's fact, no one remembers Layden for his great coaching at ND, they remember him as a player for a championship team.

 

[Golson5]

Then why has ND played them for 3 straight decades???
So basically, you are saying SC is the only rival still on the schedule every year.

When any team plays a team 30 straight years it’s a rival. It might not be the most heated rival but it is a rival.

They even play for a trophy lol

The Legends Trophy Rivalry​

This article kind of sums of the rivalry

Stanford vs. Notre Dame: A Rivalry Nearly 100 Years in the Making

slapthesign.com

I gave the reasons already