I mean if we lost miles Boykin who has 18 career catches to a season ending injury many fans would claim it’s catastrophic
Injuries
- Thread starter NDAFArly
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Strongly disagree.
Casual fans love the “flash players” but the always, always underestimate the consistent playmakers.
Guys like Boykin, Jones Jr., Hainsey, Bonner, Elliott, etc always get overlooked.
Boykin is probably more important to this team than Claypool is, although we need them both.
There hasn't been anything consistent about Boykin, Jones Jr., Bonner, or Elliot though. They are veterans on the roster who've contributed on the 2 deep/and have been rotational players over the course of their ND careers. Now they are upper classmen and there's some pre-season hype around Boykin but i've learned to fade anything BK says at his pressers and put way more weight on on the field productivity.
Tarik Black flashed big playmaking ability as a true fr., and came in as a high 4 star / nationally rated player who would have likely taken a big step forward as a sophmore.
Nobody that you listed outside of Hainsey matches that kind of early success/ track record/prospect pedigree.
Lol.
Boykin did just as much as Black, but against much better competition. He was also a 4* Top250 recruit.
Bonner has also showed himself to be consistent, and Elliott has shown himself to be solid too.
Literally nothing you say is based in fact.
Black was a starter as a true freshman who was already being heavily targeted/making plays in their offense, Boykin has been nothing more than a rotational WR over the course of his career who was apart of a big clutch play vs LSU. That's literally the extent of his career at ND.
Bonner/Elliot/Jones Jr. are all veterans who've been apart of the 2 deep at some point, but they are all upperclassmen who've played limitedly or as role players their entire career at ND.
If by consistent you mean "just another guy" than I agree.
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Boykin got a lot of pre-season hype this year but people are waaay too bullish on him based on some pre season comments from BK ... who is known to use the media to serve his own narrative/propaganda more than anything else.
I like what Boykin did last season, especially love that big play, but he's been a pretty average rotation WR his entire career, and has a lot to prove before people start putting his name among the elite on NDs roster, or even comparing him to Chase Claypool who is the far better athlete with the much greater production up to this point.
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Black has never even faced a P5 opponent. You try to minimize Boykin’s game agaisnt a Top10 Defense, yet you blindly accept games against cupcakes.
That’s typical of your comically inaccurate analysis.
Botkin > Black
Furthermore, those guys have been more than just another player, they’ve been starters on 10+ win teams...something none of the Michigan players you’ve mentioned have.
The reality is that ND has more than Michigan in this comparison.
A LOT more.
Your faith in black but doubting Botkin is comical.
Let me guess.... “something, something 5* something, something”
I believe Jalen Elliot was a starter earlier in his career out of pure necessity (the roster was so thin at DB Notre Dame really had no choice). Bonner, Boykin, and Jones Jr. have been marginal contributors to NDs 2 deep outside of that, with Elliot probably having the biggest role (which he eventually lost).
If this was the NFL, Brian Kelly would trade all 4 of these guys for Tarik Black alone without even thinking twice about it.
Which Top25 team did Black beat?
Hell, which P5 team did he beat.
What was his 1st 100+ Yard game against this pathetic competition??
Wait...
Why do think they’re comparable again?
Perhaps it’s their 2018 outlook
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I haven't missed a notre dame football game in years, and i post regularly on a notre dame fan site, and i didn't even know Bonner was a starter "all of last year". What do you think that says about the impact the player is having at his position?
Look, I'm not trying to pile it on with minimizing the players on NDs roster, all of these guys have contributed something and i'm glad they are apart of the program. I just find it silly that you would compare any of them to impact players the likes of a Chase Claypool or the trajectory Tarik Black was on.
Look, I'm not trying to pile it on with minimizing the players on NDs roster, all of these guys have contributed something and i'm glad they are apart of the program. I just find it silly that you would compare any of them to impact players the likes of a Chase Claypool or the trajectory Tarik Black was on.
Which Top25 team did Black beat?
Hell, which P5 team did he beat.
What was his 1st 100+ Yard game against this pathetic competition??
Wait...
Why do think they’re comparable again?
Perhaps it’s their 2018 outlook
Florida is a P5 team and was also the first game of the season. Tarik's first catch of his career was a 46 yard touchdown, the first touchdown for either team.
hardly. 11 catches against mediocre at best competition. give it up. boykins one catch against lsu easily trumps anything black has done. your silliness is showing.
Black had 2 catches for 83 yds and a TD against a Florida team ranked 17 at the time that would finish unranked. He then had 9 catches for 66 yards and 0 tds against the defensive juggernauts that are Cincinnati and Air Force.
Boykin 9 catches for 151 yds and 0 tds over 9 games before breaking out for 3 catches, 102 yds and a td against LSU, which finished ranked 18 (AP poll).
So both had one good game and a bunch of meh. But Boykin's breakout was against a better team and in the bowl game as opposed to the 1st game of the year. So if you think Black has made more of an impact than Boykin, can I please have some of what you're smoking? Because it must be good stuff,
Boykin 9 catches for 151 yds and 0 tds over 9 games before breaking out for 3 catches, 102 yds and a td against LSU, which finished ranked 18 (AP poll).
So both had one good game and a bunch of meh. But Boykin's breakout was against a better team and in the bowl game as opposed to the 1st game of the year. So if you think Black has made more of an impact than Boykin, can I please have some of what you're smoking? Because it must be good stuff,
The fact that you don’t know anything about ND football doesn’t prove anything about ND players.
All it proves is that you’re not an ND fan
(obviously)
You simply don’t know who is an impact player and who isn’t
You’re right.
It’s so easy to forget that a 4-win Florida team was in the P5. But they were (technically).
Still, comparing Black’s performance against a garbage team like that to Boykin’s performance against LSU is comically. Boykin is the better impact player.
Black’s best game is far more comparable to what Boykin did against Miami (OH)...a 54 yard TD against a bad team. Or you could use Boykin’s game agaisnt Virginia Tech in 2016.
Either way, Boykin is the better impact player.
And that was when Michigan still had Black...
black may indeed end up being the superior player but to date that is not the case.
True.
It's possible Black ends up better, just like it's possible that Boykin ends up better.
But in 2017 and in 2018 (the only seasons we're discussing), Boykin is clearly the better "impact player".
But for some reason @chaseball completely ignores and even reverses that fact
(let's be honest, we know why....recruiting rankings)
agree here, black without 2 foot injuries vs boykin, i probably want black. There isn't a WR on either team I would take over Chase, and that's not even close. Does he reach his potential or start breaking out, we'll see soon.
I agree with both you and Chase. TO date, boykin has done more than black. Without his foot injuries I think black is the better prospect. boykin can have a really solid/good college career but I doubt you see him in the nfl. Black had maybe still has NFL potential.
This is based on nothing but the recruiting ranking BS that @chaseball is basing his BS on.
Boykin has shown more ability ON THE FIELD against better competition than Black has, in actual college football. That's so, so much more important than recruiting rankings.
In reality, it's comical to suggest that Black is an impact player and Boykin is not.
It's simply not based in reality.
Sure, boykin has made one impacting play to blacks half of one. It was a big play vs a bad team in Florida.
IMO you could see black had some pretty good potential to come right out of the gates as a true frosh, contribute, with not good QB play, albeit against mediocre at best competition.
Health is a huge issue, after two broken feet who knows how he will be now. Not knowing that I would take boykin over him based on health, and production i'm confident he will have this year.
My point was, I believe UM needed black more than ND needs boykin because of the quality depth at WR at ND.
Maybe for 1st game. For potential and a season I would rather take DPJ. He is only the highest rated recruit out of the state of Michigan since Charles Rogers. ND fans should know what Rogers did to ND. He still has to prove it on the field first as not all super freak athletes translate to football players.
I do not see how the Black verse Boykin comparison is even close. Black walks on as a true freshmen on a staff without a receiver coach, and dysfunctional QB's and becomes the number one receiver. If he does not get hurt he easily projects out to 40-50 catches, which is fabulous for a freshman. If you look at his tape you see why as he as he already knows how to sell route A but run route B.
If Boykin is so good how come he is not starting until his senior year? Why was he unable to beat out other receivers that this board was "meh" on? I have never seen so much hype because of a single play. It is a great catch. If the play never happened would be people be saying the same thing? Black had 10 other catches in two and a half games of work.
My personal take is Boykin is equivalent to DPJ. We can say both could have the talent to do something. The unfortunate thing is us fair weather fans make judgements on zero sum gains. It very well may be that Boykin really was great but just did not have a QB who could get the ball to him. A big play receiver is absolutely dependent on a QB giving him a catchable ball. I know on the Michigan forums there are people who chart out attempts and if an incomplete who was at fault. They also chart missed opportunities. Example O'Korn missing the fact Gentry is wide open for a TD if he just throws the ball. Did Boykin get lots of chances and Wimbush either wiffed on the pass or miss the fact he was wide open?
when I reference Chase, i'm talking Chase Claypool, not boykin. Again, black never having 2 broken feet vs boykin is probably Black. Because of his health issues it's now probably boykin. Chase Claypool is leaps and bounds more talented than either of them.
Boykin has more than 1 impact play.
His last play was just so great, it's the only play that ND fans remember.
Boykin made a BIG 3rd Down catch earlier in the LSU game. Not to mention a good TD grab against VT in 2016.
Boykin has made SEVERAL plays that were "bigger impacts" than any play that Black has ever made.
Black has potential, but so does Boykin. And Boykin has done more to actually realize that potential at the college level.
Calling Black an impact player while leaving out Boykin shows either bias or stupidity (relying on recruiting rankings instead of actual CFB performances)
More of the same from you.
Sunshine and homerism for Michigan while doing nothing but downplaying ND's obvious advantages.
Black has never done anything, at all, against a decent opponent. He may have trailed off worse than O'Korn did after Purdue....when Michigan fans were hailing him as the savior of the season. We simply don't know.
What we do know is that Boykin can be an impact player against top level defenses, and he's flashed that impact potential against multiple top level defenses
(so it's not just 1 play)
Boykin has flashed impact potential on the field, against top level competition, and has gone on to dominate in camp/practice this off-season. This is the same stuff that has you slurping Shea Patterson....while you use it to call Boykin over-hyped.
The reality is that Boykin is a better impact player than Black.....and that was when you had Black.
ND's WR core is better than Michigan's for 2018, and the margin is pretty large.
If you just compare the ND and Michigan WR units:
Claypool > Peoples-Jones
Boykin > Collins
Finke = Perry
Young = Martin
Austin > Schoenle (or whoever else)
Boykin is a better impact player than Black, and it was stupid for @chaseball to credit Black without crediting Boykin.
Furthermore, ND's WR unit is better than Michigan's WR unit for 2018
yikes, comparing black to boykin to date is a no brainer. boykin has had the bigger impact when it mattered much more. black has great potential but has done next to nothing to date.
The green & gold colored glasses/bias in this thread is overwhelming.
Tarik Black broke camp as a starting WR as a true freshman, and in his first 3 games (before breaking his foot) produced the equivalent of what Miles Boykin has produced in his 3 year career at ND (Boykin was healthy, had the benefit of multiple FBS camps/training at the college level, etc.).
Any statistical argument that could be made favors Tarik Black by a mile for this very fact alone. This should all just be intuitively obvious though. It shouldn't require any further explanation.
Tarik Black broke camp as a starting WR as a true freshman, and in his first 3 games (before breaking his foot) produced the equivalent of what Miles Boykin has produced in his 3 year career at ND (Boykin was healthy, had the benefit of multiple FBS camps/training at the college level, etc.).
Any statistical argument that could be made favors Tarik Black by a mile for this very fact alone. This should all just be intuitively obvious though. It shouldn't require any further explanation.
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Your star gazing is overwhelming.
I'm baffled that this even needs to be pointed out to you.
Miles Boykin has done more in A SINGLE GAME than Tarik Black has done in HIS ENTIRE CAREER. And on top of that, Boykin has done it against high quality competition, while Black has never shown that he can even catch a pass against a quality opponent.
Tarik Black got a default starting role on one of the worst offenses in the nation, potentially the worst passing offense in all of CFB (non-option teams). Who cares if you start for a team whose best WR is a 5'8" white walk-on player. It means nothing. Black may well have red-shirted on most decent offenses.
The reality is that Boykin has proven that he can be an impact player against high quality opponents like LSU and Virginia Tech.
Black has never proven anything except that he's injury prone.
Trying to argue that Black is an impact player and Boykin isn't shows that your posts are so unintelligent that the only appropriate response should really be to point and laugh at the village idiot.
You don't typically red shirt talent at wide receiver. It is not like the offensive line where you need to time to bulk up. The best wide receivers and running backs are only around for three years.
Maybe just maybe michigan had little talent at the receiver position. boykin has done more. period.
Agreed.
I was more making a point than being serious.
On a normal P5 roster, Black would not have seen anywhere near the snaps he saw at Michigan. He was able to default into a starting positions at Michigan, as the older WRs were terrible and were clearly in the process of being "processed"
(see all the transfers this off-season)
At ND, he would have been relegated to a support role (at best)
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