In 6 years kelly has recruited 9 Rivals 5 star recruits.

[TheDecker]

Did you miss your electroshock therapy today? What team was ranked in the top 5 when the human dumpling beat them? Thanks for the chuckles....

Beating #8 Oklahoma was an accomplishment. However, we were # 5 heading into the game.

Blame your phone for the typos again...."seems".... really.... Do you sit there reciting dot dot dot.....

PS kelly holds the ND record for most 13 game seasons without 10 wins.
He has 4.

It's where teams ended that matter. Unless you start to think that preseason rankings, are more important than postseason. And I guess that wouldn't even be the dumbest thing you've ever posted…

So yes, Kelly beat a top-five Michigan State team

So it's probably time that you start considering ending everything, rather then continue posting at this level

It's hard to watch (what I can only assume to be) a human, wallow in pathetic Ness as long as you have

 

[echowaker]

Who knows? It was asked multiple times before you addressed it. Your response was less than accurate.

why ? because i didn't post the EXACT numbers ? how childish can you get. what is kellys record against teams ranked between 11 and 17 in night games in odd numbered years ?

 

[perseverare]

can you guys wrap this up? 'The Opening' in Oregon is this weekend and ND may get some 'good news' coming from there.

 

[cgvr]

It's where teams ended that matter. Unless you start to think that preseason rankings, are more important than postseason. And I guess that wouldn't even be the dumbest thing you've ever posted…

So yes, Kelly beat a top-five Michigan State team

So it's probably time that you start considering ending everything, rather then continue posting at this level

It's hard to watch (what I can only assume to be) a human, wallow in pathetic Ness as long as you have

I asked, "What team was ranked in the top 5 when the human dumpling beat them?"
The answer is a simple "none".

On Sept 21, 2013 # 22 ranked Notre Dame beat unranked msu. Here is a link to the season long rankings.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_NCAA_Division_I_FBS_football_rankings

As you can see in weeks 1, 2, 3 & 4 michigan state was not ranked. Notre Dame was ranked # 14 and dropped to # 22.

After Notre Dame’s win the Chicago Tribune’s article headlined: “Irish work in progress takes another step It's hard to know if Notre Dame's 17-13 victory over Michigan State was hard-fought or just plain luck”
Here’s the link:

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/...0922_1_zack-martin-irish-work-davaris-daniels

The article contained the following among other things:

“After a barge-load of miscues and grime from both sides, the No. 22 Irish survived with a 17-13 victory over MichiganState. If the result is all that matters, the story pretty much ends there.”

If you continue with the 2013 rankings you will see that msu made its’ debut in the top 25 on October 27th.
I doubt anyone, except for you of course, had the vision to know that msu would finish the season at # 3.

So, the best win, according to you, of kelly’s 6 year tenure came against an unranked team which finally became ranked a month later and climbed to number 3.

Had msu been ranked # 3 heading into the ND contest kelly would have pooped himself. You may disagree with me on that, but I have history on my side….

From TOS:

"kelly is 8-17 versus teams ranked in the final AP Poll

2-8 versus teams ranked in the final AP Top 10.

Kelly is 8-10 against teams that are 9-4 or better."

He stinks.

 

[cgvr]

why ? because i didn't post the EXACT numbers ? how childish can you get. what is kellys record against teams ranked between 11 and 17 in night games in odd numbered years ?

Well, you were contesting my remark that kelly stinks. Those details you avoided support my opinion. imo That's why you avoided them....

PS As for your universal remark in another post:

http://campusinsiders.com/news/rank...tm_medium=social&utm_campaign=Campus+Insiders

 

[TheDecker]

I asked, "What team was ranked in the top 5 when the human dumpling beat them?"
The answer is a simple "none".

On Sept 21, 2013 # 22 ranked Notre Dame beat unranked msu. Here is a link to the season long rankings.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_NCAA_Division_I_FBS_football_rankings

As you can see in weeks 1, 2, 3 & 4 michigan state was not ranked. Notre Dame was ranked # 14 and dropped to # 22.

After Notre Dame’s win the Chicago Tribune’s article headlined: “Irish work in progress takes another step It's hard to know if Notre Dame's 17-13 victory over Michigan State was hard-fought or just plain luck”
Here’s the link:

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/...0922_1_zack-martin-irish-work-davaris-daniels

The article contained the following among other things:

“After a barge-load of miscues and grime from both sides, the No. 22 Irish survived with a 17-13 victory over MichiganState. If the result is all that matters, the story pretty much ends there.”

If you continue with the 2013 rankings you will see that msu made its’ debut in the top 25 on October 27th.
I doubt anyone, except for you of course, had the vision to know that msu would finish the season at # 3.

So, the best win, according to you, of kelly’s 6 year tenure came against an unranked team which finally became ranked a month later and climbed to number 3.

Had msu been ranked # 3 heading into the ND contest kelly would have pooped himself. You may disagree with me on that, but I have history on my side….

From TOS:

"kelly is 8-17 versus teams ranked in the final AP Poll

2-8 versus teams ranked in the final AP Top 10.

Kelly is 8-10 against teams that are 9-4 or better."

He stinks.

LOL..................nope!!

A team is what their final ranking says they are, not their preseason ranking or some random article by a hack site....lol

BK beat a Top5 (actually #3) Michigan State team

lolololol @cgvr getting exposed and humiliated again!!
(but what else is new...)

 

[TheDecker]

From TOS:

in the final AP Poll

in the final AP Top 10.

What do you know........ @cgvr is so stupid that he even reference this FINAL RANKINGS in his diatribe about how it's the preseason/"at the moment" rankings that matter

lol

This fools gets dumber by the minute!!

 

[cgvr]

LOL..................nope!!

A team is what their final ranking says they are, not their preseason ranking or some random article by a hack site....lol

BK beat a Top5 (actually #3) Michigan State team

lolololol @cgvr getting exposed and humiliated again!!
(but what else is new...)

Yep, the hype surrounding ND # 22 playing unranked msu was electric! msu did not crack the top 25 for over a month after the ND game.

How about this?

kelly is 2-8 versus teams that finished in the top 10 AP.

Again, he stinks....

 

[TheDecker]

Yep, the hype surrounding ND # 22 playing unranked msu was electric! msu did not crack the top 25 for over a month after the ND game.

How about this?

kelly is 2-8 versus teams that finished in the top 10 AP.

Again, he stinks....

lol...still trying to defend your use of preseason rankings instead of the actual rankings (final poll) I see

@cgvr you keep getting more and more pathetic all the time

Kelly led and to a victory over a Top 5 (#3) Michigan State team

Once you admit and acknowledge this FACT we can deal with the rest of the retard-isms you're spewing.

Lolololol

 

[cgvr]

lol...still trying to defend your use of preseason rankings instead of the actual rankings (final poll) I see

@cgvr you keep getting more and more pathetic all the time

Kelly led and to a victory over a Top 5 (#3) Michigan State team

Once you admit and acknowledge this FACT we can deal with the rest of the retard-isms you're spewing.

Lolololol

You aren't the brightest bulb. I referenced in season and post season polls.

Where are you getting pre-season from?

kelly is 2-8 versus teams that finished in the top 10 AP.

Again, he stinks....

 

[captstabbin]

For a while I thought any poster that constantly engaged Argus the most crazy....because nothing is more insane than arguing with a wall.....I mean you can't blame the wall. Now I think posters that argue with cgvr are the most insane.......because cgvr is a MUCH harder wall than Argus et al.

 

[TheDecker]

You aren't the brightest bulb. I referenced in season and post season polls.

Where are you getting pre-season from?

kelly is 2-8 versus teams that finished in the top 10 AP.

Again, he stinks....

So you're ready to admit that Kelly lead Notre Dame to win over a top-five Michigan State team?

 

[cgvr]

So you're ready to admit that Kelly lead Notre Dame to win over a top-five Michigan State team?

Where did I mention pre-season rankings? I gave an exact history of that msu victory. You just aren't very smart. Now go ahead and make something else up. It's entertaining.
PS. Do you like the portly gnome's record versus teams that finished in the top 10? He stinks....

 

[mbd11]

Yep, the hype surrounding ND # 22 playing unranked msu was electric! msu did not crack the top 25 for over a month after the ND game.

How about this?

kelly is 2-8 versus teams that finished in the top 10 AP.

Again, he stinks....

The hype was bigger the year before, 2012, when #20 Notre Dame defeated #10 Michigan State, 20-3, in East Lansing.

 

[mirer03]

cgvr doesn't like Kelly.

board doesn't like cgvr.

everyone's got it. Can you move the bitchfighting to private messages and let the board go back to football for the upcoming season rather than drawing individual conclusions from past seasons?

 

[perseverare]

gonna be some news this weekend!

 

[cgvr]

The hype was bigger the year before, 2012, when #20 Notre Dame defeated #10 Michigan State, 20-3, in East Lansing.

Indeed it was....

In 2013, ND was ranked # 14 in the pre season AP and msu was not ranked.
In week 1, ND opened beating Temple and remained at 14. msu was not ranked.
In week 2, ND lost to um and dropped to # 21. msu was not ranked.
In week 3, ND beat purdue and dropped to # 22. msu was not ranked.
In week 4, ND beat msu and remained at #22. msu was not ranked.
The win obviously impressed no one....
In week 6, ND lost to Oklahoma and joined msu as not ranked.
In week 7, ND and msu remained not ranked.
In week 8, ND and msu remained not ranked.
In week 9, ND remained not ranked and msu finally cracked the top 25 at # 24.....

 

[mbd11]

Indeed it was....

In 2013, ND was ranked # 14 in the pre season AP and msu was not ranked.
In week 1, ND opened beating Temple and remained at 14. msu was not ranked.
In week 2, ND lost to um and dropped to # 21. msu was not ranked.
In week 3, ND beat purdue and dropped to # 22. msu was not ranked.
In week 4, ND beat msu and remained at #22. msu was not ranked.
The win obviously impressed no one....
In week 6, ND lost to Oklahoma and joined msu as not ranked.
In week 7, ND and msu remained not ranked.
In week 8, ND and msu remained not ranked.
In week 9, ND remained not ranked and msu finally cracked the top 25 at # 24.....

How about 2011? Unranked Notre Dame, led by QB Tommy Rees, defeated #15 MSU, led by senior QB Kirk Cousins, 31-13. MSU (11-3) finished #11 in the final rankings.

Actually, I'd say that 2011-12-13 MSU were three of Kelly's best wins at ND. Those were three very good wins. Looking forward to playing them again this year.

 

[captstabbin]

gonna be some news this weekend!

Go on.....

 

[perseverare]

MSU and ND are in similar situations, that is just a tier below the top 8 and trying to break in. Playing head to head doesn't help either.

 

[cgvr]

How about 2011? Unranked Notre Dame, led by QB Tommy Rees, defeated #15 MSU, led by senior QB Kirk Cousins, 31-13. MSU (11-3) finished #11 in the final rankings.

Actually, I'd say that 2011-12-13 MSU were three of Kelly's best wins at ND. Those were three very good wins. Looking forward to playing them again this year.

Good stuff there.... I like the added backdrop of kelly taking over for Dantonio at Cinci. Now both have heavyweight programs. If we can get by Texas clean then the Sept 17 msu showdown will loom large.
(ESPN has us at 9 and MSU at 16 pre-season).

 

[perseverare]

1st
since 2010 it is 12 5*s
of those 12: 4 had little to no impact. 1 is TBD, and arguably only 1 had on 'outstanding' career.

2nd
we read on this board the comments about Bama recruiting 3stars all the time or how ND 3 star targets had Bama offers. If you look back at the Bama recruiting from 2010 the impact of 3 star players is very minimal.
Of the Bama 3*'s Eddie Jackson was the arguably the biggest start (albeit, onthe Food Network)
So the argument of the 3* being the 'jewel' of recruiting for championships is a fallacy

looking for the NC? look closely at teams recruiting the RR prospects with 6.0 and 6.1
that will be far more reliable than following how many 3 stars you get with 'Bama offers'.

3rd
this is meant to explain to objectively compare 'expectations' with 'sunshine pumping' . If you want to look at explanations for performance results or legitimate contention; recruiting is the lifeblood of any program. To guage how much you are 'closing' ground on the usual NC contenders, the most obvious and reliable data is within recruiting results; IF objectivity is you goal.
It really is not even debateable.

 

[IrishBlooded]

ND stats since 2010

Record: 55-23
Home: 29-8
Away: 14-11
vs Game Ranked: 12-12
vs end of year ranked: 9-17
vs game top 10: 2-5
vs end of year top 10: 3-11
bowl record: 3-3

vs lower end of year ranked teams: 50-6
vs higher end of year ranked teams: 4-17
vs same end of year ranked teams: 1-0

 

[perseverare]

^ but ND needed to upgrade the entire roster. Starting in 2010 and going forward, it was not really expectations that caused disenchantment it was inflated expectations put forward by 'sunshine pumpers'. Anyone following recruiting and player didtribution knew where the team was on the road 'back'. The talent was not ready for 'prime time' as yet.

ND is not going to recruit 25 players like Bama or ? But ND has upgraded the roster to the point where each position is occupied by a talented player and if ND can put a few 'elite' impact players on the field on offense and defense then, while ND maybe won't be favored, ND can have the 'any given Saturday' chance!

That is the tempered and realistic expectation.

Kelly is closing on that talent level and His staff has ND within a couple recruits if that reality.
There are the Tier One 6: (Bama,tOSU,USC,LSU,UGA,FSU)who are perennially at the top rankings.
ND can get into the group just behind that group. The higher up the greater the shot at the playoff.


^ That ain't sunshine pumping, but it sure ain't 'negative'
realistic for '16: 10 W's and a Major Bowl (win or hard fought close L)

 

[cgvr]

^ but ND needed to upgrade the entire roster. Starting in 2010 and going forward, it was not really expectations that caused disenchantment it was inflated expectations put forward by 'sunshine pumpers'. Anyone following recruiting and player didtribution knew where the team was on the road 'back'. The talent was not ready for 'prime time' as yet.

ND is not going to recruit 25 players like Bama or ? But ND has upgraded the roster to the point where each position is occupied by a talented player and if ND can put a few 'elite' impact players on the field on offense and defense then, while ND maybe won't be favored, ND can have the 'any given Saturday' chance!

That is the tempered and realistic expectation.

Kelly is closing on that talent level and His staff has ND within a couple recruits if that reality.
There are the Tier One 6: (Bama,tOSU,USC,LSU,UGA,FSU)who are perennially at the top rankings.
ND can get into the group just behind that group. The higher up the greater the shot at the playoff.


^ That ain't sunshine pumping, but it sure ain't 'negative'
realistic for '16: 10 W's and a Major Bowl (win or hard fought close L)

Huh? Granted the balance wasn't that good, but there was a lot of talent....some legendary...

kelly has finished 1 season at # 4, 1 season at 11, 1 season at 20 and 3 seasons not ranked. Those numbers are hard to come by when one consider the recruiting rankings below..... So, in 6 years he's had 1 top 10 finish, no major bowl wins and finished out of the top 25 50% of the time. He stinks.

ND recruiting rankings Rivals
2006 8
2007 8
2008 2
2009 21
2010 14
2011 10
2012 20
2013 3
2014 11
2015 11
2016 12
Those are high end numbers and finishing out of the top 25 repeatedly is a disgrace.

In that same time frame....
ND vs Stanford Rivals recruiting

2006 8, 54
2007 8, 51
2008 2, 50
2009 21, 20
2010 14, 26
2011 10, , 22
2012 20, 5
2013 3, 63
2014 11, 14
2015 11, 18
2016 12, 18

Here's Stanford's final AP rankings during kelly's tenure... 4 top 10s, 2 top 5s.... Plus, they have won multiple major bowls....Orange, 2 Rose Bowls and they lost a Fiesta and Rose... (They also won a Foster Farms Bowl)

2015 3
2014 NR
2013 11
2012 7
2011 7
2010 4

PS I re-watched the Temple game yesterday. Rhule would have beat kelly by 30+ if the rosters were switched....

 

[perseverare]

well if you don't want to see...you won't no matter what the replies are. There was talent at the skill positions when Kelly arrived but the team was small and generally slow and lacking in talent in the trenches.
You need to reestablish relationship lost by Davie and Ty. Weis did some good skill recruiting but he was dismal on the 'lines'. There was a bigger task ahead for Kelly staffs than initially recognized.
and now:

You, and others, fail to recognize that looking at the offense ND is a Top 10 offense, talent wise.

Defense, just 1 or 2 front seven players away from being competitive with the top TT6.
Why? because if you place 1 or 2 impact players up there, then they don't just upgrade those 1 or 2 positions, the entire defense is upgraded. A player of 'impact' can elevate all the others on defense. QB's under pressure make mistakes and DB's that just have to cover a frac less are suddenly transposed into a whole new level.

The team talent is close: just a DT or DE and/ or an impact LBer away.

Question for you: If ND gets 10 W's and a major bowl win (over a Top 12 team) will you kinda be on board?

 

[cgvr]

You referenced ty and davie. The last time ty coached a game at ND was 2004. imo Neither ty not davie's impact was still being felt when kelly was hired. You mentioned impact players and kelly was "gifted" 4 NFL first rounders. In fact, there was so much talent on the squad, "not his guys", that we went to a title game. (on the backbone of weis' recruits) kelly peppered in some solid talent too.

In the 5th game of harbaugh's tenure, at the helm of a massive dumpster fire, he authored the biggest upset in CFB history. kelly has had chance after chance to author "big game magic" and has failed each time.... at times embarrassingly.

Last year, kelly was significantly out coached by Va, Temple, bc, others..... imo If you flipped the teams' talent in those games we're looking at losses by 3 TDs or more across the board....

The additions of Lyght and Denson are huge pluses in my book. For starters, kelly needs to show better consistency on both sides of the ball (impose our will), author an upset of a top 5 team, consistently demoralize lesser skilled teams and win a major bowl for him to begin to fog a mirror with me.

I believe we have a legitimate chance to do serious damage this year. This Texas game looms huge and I am anticipating a slug-fest. Where will the refs be from? I am expecting that we will have to overcome some home cooking. If we get by them cleanly and demoralize the Wolf Pack then Dantonio's in our cross hairs.... imo We'll know by the end of game 3 if we have a legitimate shot.

PS We have some awesome tear away threats....Sanders, Adams.... I am expecting Luatua to get the ball more and will be real curious to see if he actually gets a carry this year in short yardage......

 

[perseverare]

I guess the answer is 'you just will never be on board' ever.

Davie and Ty started the decline in recruiting. They neglected relationships previously established.
Ty was just too damned lazy. Davie was a defeatist.
Weis started to find/repain relationships but he could not coach a darned at the college level.

The overall cupboard was 2/3 bare or at a 'Purduish' level when BK arrived. Skill talent was there, but lineman were just not Top 25 level talents.

So there was more than the usual rebuilding to get done.

But you not going to buy in, right?

 

[cgvr]

I guess the answer is 'you just will never be on board' ever.

Davie and Ty started the decline in recruiting. They neglected relationships previously established.
Ty was just too damned lazy. Davie was a defeatist.
Weis started to find/repain relationships but he could not coach a darned at the college level.

The overall cupboard was 2/3 bare or at a 'Purduish' level when BK arrived. Skill talent was there, but lineman were just not Top 25 level talents.

So there was more than the usual rebuilding to get done.

But you not going to buy in, right?

kelly 12/09:
"I've got a plan in place. I clearly know where I want to go."
"Well, we go to work right away. We don't get a five-year plan. This is a five-minute plan. I mean, we're working on it immediately, and we expect our football players to play at a high level immediately."

weis was within a "bush push" of NC game consideration. He also went to 2 BCS games while additionally loading up talent for an NC run in '12. Your remarks on talent other stuff is just more unattractive excuse making....
weis delivered 3 top 10 classes in his last 4 years including the # 2 class. kelly has cracked the Rivals Top 10 recruiting once in six years.

He stinks.....

 

[perseverare]

if you read this board, I debunked the illusion of the Weis class that was ranked #2

Even the Rivals site pundits admitted to over ranking that class.
If you back and go through 1 at a time you can see that that was maybe not even a 'good' class!

 

[cgvr]

if you read this board, I debunked the illusion of the Weis class that was ranked #2

Even the Rivals site pundits admitted to over ranking that class.
If you back and go through 1 at a time you can see that that was maybe not even a 'good' class!

Would you care to address kelly's quotes? Would you care to address his inability to finish in the top 10 recruiting 5 out of 6 years when weis did it in three of the prior 4 years to kelly's arrival? Would you care to address kelly's only finishing in the top 10 once in 6 years?

As for the # 2 class it looks pretty darn solid to me....

Kapron Lewis-Moore DE Weatherford, TX 6'4" 225 5.8 2/6/08
Deion Walker WR Christchurch, VA 6'4" 186 5.8 1/5/08
Trevor Robinson OL Omaha, NE 6'6" 304 6 12/14/07
Jonas Gray RB Detroit, MI 5'10" 213 6 10/22/07
Michael Floyd WR St. Paul, MN 6'3" 195 6.1 10/22/07
Steven Filer LB Chicago, IL 6'3" 220 5.9 7/24/07
Dan McCarthy DB Youngstown, OH 6'2" 190 5.8 7/16/07
Ethan Johnson DE Portland, OR 6'4" 266 6 6/28/07
Jamoris Slaughter DB Stone Mountain, GA 6'1" 185 5.8 6/27/07
Robert Blanton DB Matthews, NC 6'1" 177 5.8 6/20/07
Brandon Newman DT Louisville, KY 6'1" 300 5.8 5/26/07
Lane Clelland OL Owings Mills, MD 6'5" 270 5.8 5/4/07
Hafis Williams DT Elizabeth, NJ 6'3" 285 5.7 5/3/07
Joseph Fauria TE Encino, CA 6'8" 250 5.8 4/22/07
Darius Fleming LB Chicago, IL 6'3" 230 5.9 4/21/07
Dayne Crist QB Sherman Oaks, CA 6'5" 228 6.1 4/20/07
Anthony McDonald LB Sherman Oaks, CA 6'3" 220 5.8 4/12/07
David Posluszny LB Aliquippa, PA 6'0" 206 5.7 4/6/07
Kyle Rudolph TE Cincinnati, OH 6'6" 229 6.1 3/26/07
Sean Cwynar DT Woodstock, IL 6'4" 284 5.9 3/6/07
John Goodman WR Fort Wayne, IN 6'4" 192 5.7 3/4/07
Braxston Cave OL Mishawaka, IN 6'4" 295 5.8 3/3/07
Mike Golic OL West Hartford, CT 6'5" 260 5.7 2/19/07

 

[perseverare]

if you consider thst the legit #2 class; after fact then NO, talking to a rock here!

 

[cgvr]

if you consider thst the legit #2 class; after fact then NO, talking to a rock here!

Stop deflecting and making this a discussion about a single season's recruiting ranking. I see a lot of NFL talent in that group..... Your opinion on where it should've been ranked takes nothing away from the other specific facts and questions presented.

 

[perseverare]

oh, you can keep going with you tirade. Don't let our absence in the discussion deter you.
Have at ... I bet you can get in an argument with yourself if you apply yourself.

 

[cgvr]

oh, you can keep going with you tirade. Don't let our absence in the discussion deter you.
Have at ... I bet you can get in an argument with yourself if you apply yourself.

Tirade? I think you read far too much emotion into these posts. kelly has had one top ten finish in both the polls and recruiting in 6 years. Yay for us..... He stinks.

 

[echowaker]

kelly is a fine coach. easy top 15.

 

[perseverare]

not that he is just top 15, aside from Meyer/Saban anyone else is at best a 'push' and you lose an excellent staff (Sanford especially), you lose an established system and you lose the recruiting relationships.
Then there is the reality that the coach is a 7 year coach with his system and personel to make a run.
The best course of action now is to take the shot and see how it goes. It may be Kelly has two 'good' not great years and decides to turn over the reigns, and by then Sanford may well be firmly established at ND and grooming is completed.

Any other suggested immediate course of action is rediculous.

 

[cgvr]

kelly is a fine coach. easy top 15.

From TOS:

"By what logic ...

does a top 15 coach finish outside the top 15 two-thirds of the time at Notre Dame?

The fact is Kelly's record at ND is mediocre. He has had one outstanding season in 6 years. He has had one other good year (2015) and 4 average to below average seasons."

 

[perseverare]

maybe you should just sit the Kelly contract out. Go fishing, take up a hobby (origami?) or keep a daily record of how much your grass grows each day? Something you enjoy.

 

[cgvr]

maybe you should just sit the Kelly contract out. Go fishing, take up a hobby (origami?) or keep a daily record of how much your grass grows each day? Something you enjoy.

It cheers me up when posters like you attempt to make things personal. It shows that the substance of my posts can't be refuted. Thanks for the chuckles.