In 6 years kelly has recruited 9 Rivals 5 star recruits.

[TheDecker]

There's ~85 scholarship athletes in a program. NDs top ~10 players can compete with nearly anybody. It's the next 75 players where ND has to close a very large gap.

Also, there's a big difference between being a top 5 program and being a top 5 team any given year. Yes, ND can occasionally compete with the top 10/25 schools in a given game, but our REAL competition is the top 4/elite programs in the country (making the CFB playoffs and competing with those teams for a national championship) ... ND is nowhere near that level and we see it over and over again when we face those teams and get our teeth kicked in.

And yet we just played a very close game against the #2 and #3 teams in the country.....despite being injury ravenged already by those games (including the QB position)

So your "point" isn't substantiated by facts.

The boy programs with significantly more talent than ND, top to bottom of the roster, are Ohio State and Alabama.
That's it.

You really don't have a leg to stand on here

 

[echowaker]

Last I heard he was going to do three things:
1) change ND's admissions rules
2) make other teams follow rules
3) dig up Rockne

you forgot wash harbaughs car

 

[cgvr]

Prove it.

Way, way, way above your pay grade.....

 

[cgvr]

^^^^^^^^^^^^
This I completely disagree with. First of all let's look at some simple facts. Kelly came here and did not have a whole lot of overall talent. His QB situation the first 3 years was awful. Then when he seemed to turn the corner, bam! The QB gets suspended and he is back to square one. Let's not forget 5 players, 3 of which were startes get suspended. Somehow he gets to the NC. Sure, his team gets crushed, but he got there. Now, has there been coaching mistakes? No question. But I think fans didn't realize how depleted they were on talent. He now has plenty of offensive talent. Enough to compete with anyone, even Bama or Ohio st. The real issue is on defense. I will concede that they do not get enough elite talent on defense to be a top tier team. Why don't they get top talent on defense? I'm not sure. My best guess would be that most of the elite kids are looking to get to the NFL. ND wants you to get a degree and looking at the ciriculum I think a large majority of players don't want to go through the rigors of tough acedemics. It's easier to go to a school where you do the bare minimum requirement while pursuing your dream to play in the NFL. ND has enough talent to beat anyone on their schedule. But you need some good things to happen to win all or almost all your games. Just as an observation and nothing more,Kelly has brought in more talent than anyone since Lou Holtz. Last year was proof that the talent level is clearly better. They lost how many key starters yet kept winning and were right there in the hunt until the very end. So as far as other teams being so much better talent wise, I think it's only a few. Remember the team that went to the NC and lost, should have or at least could have lost to ND. Anyway I'm rambling so I'll just end with this. ND is not going to change their standards. I'm not a Kelly apologist. He has done a pretty good job. I don't know if he will win a NC. But I do know there is a coach who can come to ND and get them over the hump. We just don't know who that coach is. It took Bama how many coaches after Bear Bryant left to find Saban.. ND is as close as ever in my opinion to an elite program. I think this will finalLy be the year for that elusive major bowl win

"Kelly came here and did not have a whole lot of overall talent."
Which starters in the NC game did he recruit?

 

[IrishBlooded]

Way, way, way above your pay grade.....

So you have no meaning for the solution you just want to complain about it.

At least you are consistent.

 

[bizzybecknd]

"Kelly came here and did not have a whole lot of overall talent."
Which starters in the NC game did he recruit?

Starters BK recruited:
Stephon Tuitt, KeVarie Russell, Louis Nix, Everett Golson, Prince Shembo, Tj Jones, Davarris Daniels, Danny Spond, Bennett Jackson, Mathias Farley, Christian Lombard, GAIII (KO), Davonte Neal (PR),

2-Deep/ Key Contributors BK recruited:
Tommy Rees, Sheldon Day, Aaron Lynch, Daniel Smith, Troy Niklas, Ishaq Williams, Chris Brown, Kona Schwenke, Ben Councell, Tony Springman, Nick Martin, Josh Atkinson, Ben Koyack, Jarrett Grace.

 

[baron100]

It isn't even 5 stars ... there's a big gap between ND and other programs when it comes to high 4 stars (or any nationally ranked players for that matter).

We go into every game against top programs with pawns vs their board full of queens and people here expect ND to win anyway.

Would you please back up your statement with some facts. Like how many programs and opponents have more 4 and 5 star players? I don't know the number but it's a small one

 

[tkirish]

"Kelly came here and did not have a whole lot of overall talent."
Which starters in the NC game did he recruit?

It's true many players on the 2012 team were there recruited by Weis. However it was Golson that was the QB who Kelly Recruited. Also the defense which started Teo another Weis recruit that really hepled the team that year. Don't forget Bob Diaco was the defensive coordinator and his style worked perfectly for the personnel he had. Nonetheless, the talent on hand now and depth is much better than it was then. There is depth at most positions that wasn't there before. Not perfect but much much better. Again just look at last year. How many key starters were lost. Yet backups came in and stepped up. That tells you the type and quality of athletes that have been recruited by Kelly.

 

[bizzybecknd]

I had no idea BK's recruiting had that kind of impact on the 2012 team, I was thinking it was comprised more of Weis' players. 3/4 of the starting secondary, 2/3 of the starting D-Line, 2/3 of the WR, both QB's, 2/4 starting LB's. The O-Line was Weis dominant (expected as these guys need a few RS years) and give Weis credit for RB (Theo/Cierre) were terrific.

 

[cgvr]

Starters BK recruited:
Stephon Tuitt, KeVarie Russell, Louis Nix, Everett Golson, Prince Shembo, Tj Jones, Davarris Daniels, Danny Spond, Bennett Jackson, Mathias Farley, Christian Lombard, GAIII (KO), Davonte Neal (PR),

2-Deep/ Key Contributors BK recruited:
Tommy Rees, Sheldon Day, Aaron Lynch, Daniel Smith, Troy Niklas, Ishaq Williams, Chris Brown, Kona Schwenke, Ben Councell, Tony Springman, Nick Martin, Josh Atkinson, Ben Koyack, Jarrett Grace.

Thanks for the response. Here's the question I asked, Which starters in the NC game did he (kelly) recruit? Here's the BCS game starting line up with the players commitment dates. kelly arrived in Dec 2009. There was a ton of talent on the team including the legendary Manti Te'o....

TJ Jones 10/18/09
Troy Niklas 2/2/11
Zack Martin 7/21/08
Chris Watt 7/13/08
Braxston Cave 3/3/07
Mike Golic 12/19/07
Christian Lombard 1/3/09
Tyler Eifert 7/8/08
Everett Golson 12/2/10
Theo Riddick 4/23/08
Ben Koyack 4/27/10

Kapron Lewis Moore 2/6/08
Louis Nix 12/2/09
Stephon Tuitt 1/20/11
Prince Shembo 8/4/09
Dan Fox 6/5/08
Manti Te’o 2/4/09
Danny Spond Committed 2/10
KeiVarae Russell 12/29/11
Bennett Jackson 6/7/09
Zeke Motta 10/10/08
Matthias Farley 4/21/10

 

[bizzybecknd]

Thanks for the response. Here's the question I asked, Which starters in the NC game did he (kelly) recruit? Here's the BCS game starting line up with the players commitment dates. kelly arrived in Dec 2009. There was a ton of talent on the team including the legendary Manti Te'o....

TJ Jones 10/18/09
Troy Niklas 2/2/11
Zack Martin 7/21/08
Chris Watt 7/13/08
Braxston Cave 3/3/07
Mike Golic 12/19/07
Christian Lombard 1/3/09
Tyler Eifert 7/8/08
Everett Golson 12/2/10
Theo Riddick 4/23/08
Ben Koyack 4/27/10

Kapron Lewis Moore 2/6/08
Louis Nix 12/2/09
Stephon Tuitt 1/20/11
Prince Shembo 8/4/09
Dan Fox 6/5/08
Manti Te’o 2/4/09
Danny Spond Committed 2/10
KeiVarae Russell 12/29/11
Bennett Jackson 6/7/09
Zeke Motta 10/10/08
Matthias Farley 4/21/10

I'm willing to bet he recruited the underlined guys as well and it was probably a tougher recruiting sell since they were in the midst of a coaching change. Gotta give him credit for signing the underlined guys in his first class at ND although they verballed before his arrival. Also, is this Nix's original verbal date as I believe he de-commited? Either way, his commitment date was at a time when there was no coach at ND.

 

[cgvr]

you forgot wash harbaughs car

He was last seen driving a beat up pick up. I doubt he washes it....

He asks HS coaches a simple question, "Who do you have that can play for me?"

 

[onlyonenow]

I have never seen the hatred and pathological obsession CGVR has with Kelly any place else on anyone else.

 

[cgvr]

So you have no meaning for the solution you just want to complain about it.

At least you are consistent.

Is English your second language? Again, it is way above your pay grade....

 

[Eph97]

Kelly is a good coach, but his character leaves a lot to be desired. How he carries himself is embarrassing.

 

[Irishjohn68]

It's way above your pay grade.....

How much are they paying you at Burger King?

 

[Irishjohn68]

Kelly is a good coach, but his character leaves a lot to be desired. How he carries himself is embarrassing.

WTF?

 

[Bodizephax]

Here is the latest photo of cgvr escaping from a Michigan nursing home so he could go stalk Jim Harbaugh.

 

[IrishBlooded]

Is English your second language? Again, it is way above your pay grade....

The only thing above my pay grade is understanding the insurmountable level of your stupidity. All you do is complain about ND and Kelly. Why you come here is perhaps right up there with why they didn't have binoculars on the Titanic or why Lee didn't try to take Little Round Top faster at Gettysburg.

The only thing you do here is complain (oh and try to lie and then try to twist the words when you get caught to seem smarter than a 5th grader). You are a faceless no one, on a board talking about college football. Yet you keep plugging away. The funny part is, is when Kelly does leave you will try to yank out your 2 centimeters of manhood to try to call it that you knew something about it. So if you can't show something you can do to change it. Then at least go and put on some Maize and Blue and cheer for a team you do like. Instead of pretending to cheer for one you don't

 

[BettisND]

Landed a haymaker....

 

[echowaker]

He was last seen driving a beat up pick up. I doubt he washes it....

He asks HS coaches a simple question, "Who do you have that can play for me?"

he's never asked that question at our school and he's been there more than once .

 

[perseverare]

Absolutely right! Spot on. Those that choose not to recognize this simple fact as to the state of the ND program will always be satisfied with 8 & 4. Look, forget Kelly for a moment, the program as it stands today, and the way it has been operated just is not attracting the elite, top talent. Not anywhere near the levels of the top 5-6 programs. That's the way it is and we may have to accept the fact that we can't - for whatever reasons (the school's built in limitations, the area of the country, the academics etc.) bring this talent here. Coach 8 & 4 will always be that or until there is a break through - highly unlikely - and/or a great, impact-full, Heisman type QB can take the team and carry it to a NC. Otherwise, Kelly is coach 8 & 4. It is what it is.

actually, how can you count Vanderduh? and Kiel and Bryant were none factors.

But I think the point the OP is trying to make is there is a recruiting gap between the elite teams and ND that explains why ND has gone decades w/o a major bowl victory and except for 2012 rarely in contention for the national title.

Sunshine pumpers will attack him rather than offer counter point; they really never have much of a point.
They will assume the new ND fan position: hands over your ears and eyes closed!

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
now for the OP

1.ND does not offer jobs to recruits hangers on, does not offer bogus schols to siblings, does not offer condos, does not build bogus churches, does not offer cars, does not offer bogus majors, does not pursue criminals, does not offer cash incentives nor any ither impropriety to entice a recruits signature.
2. It is still illegal to kidnap persons and force them to play football as a university rep.
3. Athletes at ND are as like any other enrollee, expected to attend classes and to perform satisfactorily in the classroom.
4. Athletes like all students have to act in a socially responsible manner. (acts such as standing on tables and spouting profanity, robbing grocery stores, assault, battery, crimes of any sorts bring banishment; not institutional coverup).They cannot commit crimes of any sorts (misdemeanor or felony) against society with impunity and immunity, safe from expulsion.

These are just 3 factors that separate ND from the Bama's and other usual culprits (FSU, Ole Miss, UM, AU....)

The staff recruits effortlessly and it is doubtful that anyone not named Saban or Meyer could do as well or better.

 

[cgvr]

The only thing above my pay grade is understanding the insurmountable level of your stupidity. All you do is complain about ND and Kelly. Why you come here is perhaps right up there with why they didn't have binoculars on the Titanic or why Lee didn't try to take Little Round Top faster at Gettysburg.

The only thing you do here is complain (oh and try to lie and then try to twist the words when you get caught to seem smarter than a 5th grader). You are a faceless no one, on a board talking about college football. Yet you keep plugging away. The funny part is, is when Kelly does leave you will try to yank out your 2 centimeters of manhood to try to call it that you knew something about it. So if you can't show something you can do to change it. Then at least go and put on some Maize and Blue and cheer for a team you do like. Instead of pretending to cheer for one you don't

Where did I complain about Notre Dame? Have fun finding that. I have written multiple irrefutable facts about kelly which you obviously avoid. Point out a lie...
Your post cheers me up as you lack the substance to refute what I have written.

 

[echowaker]

Kelly is a good coach, but his character leaves a lot to be desired. How he carries himself is embarrassing.

a coach with

Where did I complain about Notre Dame? Have fun finding that. I have written multiple irrefutable facts about kelly which you obviously avoid. Point out a lie...
Your post cheers me up as you lack the substance to refute what I have written.

you said he stinks. that is a lie. his resume as a college football coach is excellent. keep trying though.

 

[cgvr]

a coach with

you said he stinks. that is a lie. his resume as a college football coach is excellent. keep trying though.

What's his record versus ranked teams?
The Music City Bowl is his best bowl win.... whoopdy doo....

 

[cgvr]

actually, how can you count Vanderduh? and Kiel and Bryant were none factors.

But I think the point the OP is trying to make is there is a recruiting gap between the elite teams and ND that explains why ND has gone decades w/o a major bowl victory and except for 2012 rarely in contention for the national title.

Sunshine pumpers will attack him rather than offer counter point; they really never have much of a point.
They will assume the new ND fan position: hands over your ears and eyes closed!

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
now for the OP

1.ND does not offer jobs to recruits hangers on, does not offer bogus schols to siblings, does not offer condos, does not build bogus churches, does not offer cars, does not offer bogus majors, does not pursue criminals, does not offer cash incentives nor any ither impropriety to entice a recruits signature.
2. It is still illegal to kidnap persons and force them to play football as a university rep.
3. Athletes at ND are as like any other enrollee, expected to attend classes and to perform satisfactorily in the classroom.
4. Athletes like all students have to act in a socially responsible manner. (acts such as standing on tables and spouting profanity, robbing grocery stores, assault, battery, crimes of any sorts bring banishment; not institutional coverup).They cannot commit crimes of any sorts (misdemeanor or felony) against society with impunity and immunity, safe from expulsion.

These are just 3 factors that separate ND from the Bama's and other usual culprits (FSU, Ole Miss, UM, AU....)

The staff recruits effortlessly and it is doubtful that anyone not named Saban or Meyer could do as well or better.

Bingo. "But I think the point the OP is trying to make is there is a recruiting gap between the elite teams and ND that explains why ND has gone decades w/o a major bowl victory and except for 2012 rarely in contention for the national title."

You avoided the many advantages that Notre Dame has on the recruiting trail. Interestingly, kelly's top haul came on the heels of our '12 season. That's what winning does....

 

[cgvr]

he's never asked that question at our school and he's been there more than once .

That makes sense. Why would he value your opinion?

 

[mbd11]

What's his record versus ranked teams?
The Music City Bowl is his best bowl win.... whoopdy doo....

Kelly's 3-3 in bowls, and no, he hasn't won any major bowls yet, being 0-2. However, in fairness, the two teams he lost to in those, 2012 Alabama and 2015 Ohio State, were two of the most talented CFB teams in the last 20 years.

 

[perseverare]

ND, will not have the depth of an Ala or LSU or...; but if the starters are at or close talent wise, and ND can get through it's schedule unscathed, it comes down to 1 game. If ND comes into that game with a reasonably heathy squad then anything can happen.
ND is currently very close offensively to any team in the talent catagory.
We are hearing good news on the recruiting front as pertains to the defense.

In a single game with everything on the line, well, that is what ND history and tradition has been build upon, right?
Just get in that position again!

 

[echowaker]

What's his record versus ranked teams?
The Music City Bowl is his best bowl win.... whoopdy doo....

you do love the low hanging fruit. you said he stinks. his college coaching resume says otherwise. stevie wonder can see that. the one -man band can't.

 

[echowaker]

That makes sense. Why would he value your opinion?

because i am highly respected to all coaches who are aware of me. my point was he doesn't do what you say he does all the time. another lie. maybe a stop at the confessional in your future ?

 

[cgvr]

because i am highly respected to all coaches who are aware of me. my point was he doesn't do what you say he does all the time. another lie. maybe a stop at the confessional in your future ?

I wrote, "He asks HS coaches a simple question, "Who do you have that can play for me?"
My plurality references some of the HS coaches I know he works with...
I like your addition of all the time. Keep building the straw men...

PS As to your first claim, that's doubtful....
"because i am highly respected to all coaches who are aware of me." That's very funny.
I'm sure your steroid confession is a crowd pleaser....

 

[echowaker]

I wrote, "He asks HS coaches a simple question, "Who do you have that can play for me?"
My plurality references some of the HS coaches I know he works with...
I like your addition of all the time. Keep building the straw men...

PS As to your first claim, that's doubtful....
"because i am highly respected to all coaches who are aware of me." That's very funny.
I'm sure your steroid confession is a crowd pleaser....

still harping on my experimenting with steroids in the late 80's ? is that all you got ? i get along with and know LOTS of coaches. i talk to coach saban usually once a week. i don't work with jim harbaugh. he has been to our school on more than one occasion. i have talked to him about a couple of our kids when he was at stanford. good guy. good coach. anything else ?

 

[Epictitus]

cgvr getting schooled again. Some things around here are quite consistent.

 

[echowaker]

cgvr getting schooled again. Some things around here are quite consistent.

nothing worse than a one -man band constantly playing out of tune.

 

[cgvr]

still harping on my experimenting with steroids in the late 80's ? is that all you got ? i get along with and know LOTS of coaches. i talk to coach saban usually once a week. i don't work with jim harbaugh. he has been to our school on more than one occasion. i have talked to him about a couple of our kids when he was at stanford. good guy. good coach. anything else ?

"He asks HS coaches a simple question, "Who do you have that can play for me?""

Where did you come up with your "all the time" line?

"my point was he doesn't do what you say he does all the time. another lie."

Would you care to show me where that reference you attributed to me came from?

Or, would you just like to write that you fabricated a remark and attributed it to me?

PS Would you like to share kelly's record versus ranked opponents?

 

[cgvr]

Kelly's 3-3 in bowls, and no, he hasn't won any major bowls yet, being 0-2. However, in fairness, the two teams he lost to in those, 2012 Alabama and 2015 Ohio State, were two of the most talented CFB teams in the last 20 years.

Other kelly bowl factoids:

In 2006, kelly ditched his CMU team before their "Motor City Bowl" appearance.
That year, he took over game 13 HC responsibilities for Cinci in the 2006 "International Bowl" beating Western Mich 27-24.
In 2007, he won the "Papa John’s Bowl" 31-21 vs Southern Miss.
In 2008, he lost the "Orange Bowl" 20-7 vs Va Tech.
In 2009, he ditched his "Sugar Bowl" bound undefeated Cinci team.

 

[perseverare]

while you guys are busy with your pissing contest, there has been some very good news coming down on the recuiting front....

but heck, ND fans don't need flammers or visitors, they just devour each other!

 

[perseverare]

on topic of football and recruiting, as I often refer to measuring classes by the 'elites', a/o this time ND is matching it's main rivals and obstacles to the top 4; Stanford and USC. Why important? ND needs to get through it'sown schedule before chance at a playoff or Major Bowl. I doubt ND can lose to both thise team's in the same year and get in a major bowl situation.

 

[bkmtnittany1]

I have never seen the hatred and pathological obsession CGVR has with Kelly any place else on anyone else.

Wanna bet! Just wait till Oct 15th rolls around and Men's Hoops starts practice....there is a certain moron who can match anyone for being obsessed...