In 2024 (and beyond) when college football playoff expands to 12 teams will the status quo warriors use the "playoff appearance" crutch?

[chaseball]

Right now there's a gap about the size of a football stadium between ND and the top handful of teams that are actually competing for national titles. Based on the lack of top 50/top 100 talent in the ND organization (at least relative to those real title contending teams) Will ND fans excuse the status quo away with "hey bro we made the playoffs!" when ND squeaks into the back end of the playoff and predictably gets ran over by one of those top contending teams?

Or looked at in another way: to what degree of ass kicking does ND need to continue to be on the receiving end of before fans/alumni/board members/decision makers at ND start to demand (and invest in) a better product?

 

[Golson5]

Right now there's a gap about the size of a football stadium between ND and the top handful of teams that are actually competing for national titles. Based on the lack of top 50/top 100 talent in the ND football program relative to those real title contending teams, Will ND fans excuse the status quo away with "hey bro we made the playoffs" when ND squeaks into the playoff (if we are lucky) and predictably gets ran over by one of those top contending teams?

Or looked at in another way: to what degree of ass kicking does ND need to continue to be on the receiving end of before fans/alumni/board members/decision makers at ND start to demand (and invest in) a better product?

Top 3 teams. Not top handful. And OSU might not be that firm in the top 3 anymore

Looking like a top 2ish with anyone in the next tier (including us) of having a chance

 

[chaseball]

There's about 6 programs right now that can field a better 2 deep with their 2s and 3s than ND can with its 1s and 2s which is obviously embarrassing. But we're all just supposed to look the other way and pretend that this COLOSSAL talent disparity--that is seemingly getting even greater going forward--doesn't exist while ND continues to do business as usual?

This incoming 2024 class full of 3 and 4 star talent has the college football world shaking in their boots rn

 

[Golson5]

There's about 6 programs right now that can field a better 2 deep with their 2s and 3s than ND can with its 1s and 2s which is obviously embarrassing. But we're all just supposed to look the other way and pretend that this COLOSSAL talent advantage doesn't exist and naively go into the year with the same exact "gameplan" thinking we can actually win anything of note.

This incoming 2024 class full of 3 and 4 star talent has the college football world shaking in its boots.

Thats nonsense.

You say that. No one else.

You're a clown though

 

[Golson5]

Right now the 24 class has

1 five star
8 four stars
2 three stars

Michigan LSU FSU PSU And Tenn have more three stars than us right now in the top ten

Georgia OSU Scar have 2 as well

Shut up with your nonsense. You are clueless

 

[Granite45]

But we're all just supposed to look the other way and pretend that this COLOSSAL talent disparity--that is seemingly getting even greater going forward--doesn't exist while ND continues to do business as usual?

Not all of us, but certainly better for us if you do, or at least stop with your complaints or just go away.

 

[tbonesays]

ight now there's a gap about the size of a football stadium between ND and the top handful of teams that are actually competing for national titles. Based on the lack of top 50/top 100 talent in the ND organization (at least relative to those real title contending teams) Will ND fans excuse the status quo away with "hey bro we made the playoffs!" when ND squeaks into the back end of the playoff (if we are lucky) and predictably gets ran over by one of those top contending teams?

Yes.

 

[chaseball]

Notre dame has three 4-star players ranked between #340-#400 right now. These are low 4 star/borderline 3 star players and are nowhere in the same universe as the type of 4 star players that make up the majority of a tier 1 program's roster.

 

[NDSMC78]

Right now there's a gap about the size of a football stadium between ND and the top handful of teams that are actually competing for national titles. Based on the lack of top 50/top 100 talent in the ND organization (at least relative to those real title contending teams) Will ND fans excuse the status quo away with "hey bro we made the playoffs!" when ND squeaks into the back end of the playoff (if we are lucky) and predictably gets ran over by one of those top contending teams?

Or looked at in another way: to what degree of ass kicking does ND need to continue to be on the receiving end of before fans/alumni/board members/decision makers at ND start to demand (and invest in) a better product?

Mr. Negativity has returned. While he claims to be aND fan, all he does is complain about the ND administration, coaching staff, and players. He complains about ND's academic requirements and the effect they have on ND'S recruiting. The guy is a one trick pony who would be better suited to find another school to pull for.

 

[chaseball]

More like Mr. Reality.

Why is it ok on gamedays for people to complain ad nauseum about gameday decision minutia and the coaching but somehow when ND is getting its teeth kicked in from a program-managerial perspective (like on the transfer portal, recruiting trail, 85 man roster, culture, team personnel, etc.) it isn't ok to criticize?

There's no excuse for ND to be completely out of the national title picture in April/May (months before the season even starts!). It's really frustrating and the talent level is getting even worse based on the outlook of the 2024 class. Something has GOT. TO. GIVE.

I'm counting down the days to Jenkins and/or Swarbrick's resignation.

 

[echowaker]

Right now there's a gap about the size of a football stadium between ND and the top handful of teams that are actually competing for national titles. Based on the lack of top 50/top 100 talent in the ND organization (at least relative to those real title contending teams) Will ND fans excuse the status quo away with "hey bro we made the playoffs!" when ND squeaks into the back end of the playoff and predictably gets ran over by one of those top contending teams?

Or looked at in another way: to what degree of ass kicking does ND need to continue to be on the receiving end of before fans/alumni/board members/decision makers at ND start to demand (and invest in) a better product?

Wash,rinse,repeat. Same old tired drivel. Time for some new material no ?

 

[echowaker]

There's about 6 programs right now that can field a better 2 deep with their 2s and 3s than ND can with its 1s and 2s which is obviously embarrassing. But we're all just supposed to look the other way and pretend that this COLOSSAL talent disparity--that is seemingly getting even greater going forward--doesn't exist while ND continues to do business as usual?

This incoming 2024 class full of 3 and 4 star talent has the college football world shaking in their boots rn

More nonsense.

 

[NDSMC78]

More like Mr. Reality.

Why is it ok on gamedays for people to complain ad nauseum about gameday decision minutia and the coaching but somehow when ND is getting its teeth kicked in from a program-managerial perspective (like on the transfer portal, recruiting trail, 85 man roster, culture, team personnel, etc.) it isn't ok to criticize?

There's no excuse for ND to be completely out of the national title picture in April/May (months before the season even starts!). It's really frustrating and the talent level is getting even worse! Something has GOT TO GIVE!

You wouldn't know reality if it bit you in the ass.

 

[IrishBeer]

We have a chance to win it all this year. Hartman is really good. We will find out if Chase is right or wrong on September 23.

 

[chaseball]

We have a chance to win it all this year. Hartman is really good. We will find out if Chase is right or wrong on September 23.

I've been posting the same message since Weis left and have been proven right 13 times in a row. I've charted data, i've linked to authoritative resources, i've practically written a book on the topic, etc.

That's also part of the problem, it doesn't matter if you are accurate or not, Notre Dame fans simply refuse to have a frank discussion about the elephant in the room so they revert to the types of responses you see in this very thread (name calling, trolling, derailing discussion, etc.)

 

[NDSMC78]

I've been posting the same message since Weis left and have been proven right 13 times in a row. I've charted data, i've linked to authoritative resources, i've practically written a book on the topic, etc.

That's also part of the problem, it doesn't matter if you are accurate or not, Notre Dame fans simply refuse to have a frank discussion about the elephant in the room so they revert to the types of responses you see in this very thread (name calling, trolling, derailing discussion, etc.)

More BS. You have a vision of ND which is detached from reality. You picture ND as a place where football takes precedence over everything else, and where success on the gridiron is of paramount importance. You fail to take into consideration, or even acknowledge, that ND is, first and foremost, an academic institution.
You have often complained about the academic restrictions at ND. Once, you asked how Jenkins and Swarbrick could make a statement without getting permission from Marcus Freeman. You have a vision of ND just just doesn't exist, and despite repeated admonishments, you continue to hold firm to that vision.

 

[BGI User 756]

There's about 6 programs right now that can field a better 2 deep with their 2s and 3s than ND can with its 1s and 2s which is obviously embarrassing. But we're all just supposed to look the other way and pretend that this COLOSSAL talent disparity--that is seemingly getting even greater going forward--doesn't exist while ND continues to do business as usual?

This incoming 2024 class full of 3 and 4 star talent has the college football world shaking in their boots rn

You should work for CNN with that narrative

 

[BGI User 756]

I've been posting the same message since Weis left and have been proven right 13 times in a row. I've charted data, i've linked to authoritative resources, i've practically written a book on the topic, etc.

That's also part of the problem, it doesn't matter if you are accurate or not, Notre Dame fans simply refuse to have a frank discussion about the elephant in the room so they revert to the types of responses you see in this very thread (name calling, trolling, derailing discussion, etc.)

You authored “A Cat in the Hat”?

 

[savvyandsassier]

This is an odd time to bagging on ND for on the basis of recruiting and available talent. Things are looking up in that regard, not that that means a lot to the OP. And now with SH putting his stamp on the QB position, which is a huge relief, we're looking pretty good as of today. And the WRs too, I guess that's for real as well. What with Jaden Greathouse as a future star.

Maybe they can talk Styles into returning and becoming a DB....

 

[tbone3114]

Right now the 24 class has

1 five star
8 four stars
2 three stars

Michigan LSU FSU PSU And Tenn have more three stars than us right now in the top ten

Georgia OSU Scar have 2 as well

Shut up with your nonsense. You are clueless

And we will end with at least 3 5 stars in the class!

 

[hvillebill]

More like Mr. Reality.

Why is it ok on gamedays for people to complain ad nauseum about gameday decision minutia and the coaching but somehow when ND is getting its teeth kicked in from a program-managerial perspective (like on the transfer portal, recruiting trail, 85 man roster, culture, team personnel, etc.) it isn't ok to criticize?

There's no excuse for ND to be completely out of the national title picture in April/May (months before the season even starts!). It's really frustrating and the talent level is getting even worse based on the outlook of the 2024 class. Something has GOT. TO. GIVE.

I'm counting down the days to Jenkins and/or Swarbrick's resignation.

You have two problems.

First, your negativity wears everybody out. It's pretty easy to constantly bitch. Secondly, you make out your opinions on subjects to be facts.

Please learn the difference.

 

[IrishBeer]

You should work for CNN with that narrative

CNN is horrible. Just like ESPN.

 

[ticat]

More like Mr. Reality.

Why is it ok on gamedays for people to complain ad nauseum about gameday decision minutia and the coaching but somehow when ND is getting its teeth kicked in from a program-managerial perspective (like on the transfer portal, recruiting trail, 85 man roster, culture, team personnel, etc.) it isn't ok to criticize?

There's no excuse for ND to be completely out of the national title picture in April/May (months before the season even starts!). It's really frustrating and the talent level is getting even worse based on the outlook of the 2024 class. Something has GOT. TO. GIVE.

I'm counting down the days to Jenkins and/or Swarbrick's resignation.

I know you hear this time and again, but I'm bored, it's cold and wet outside....so one more time...

Jenkins and Swarbrick are doing what they are supposed to do: Deliver a top-notch university to the administration and the students therein, NOT win a minor-pro football championship.

Jenkins is leading a school that spends (and therefore, acquires) nearly $250 million annually on research and educational activity, a value that is quite impressive for a university in Notre Dame's category (Undergraduate Teaching). By the way, this amount is one-third greater than research funding from five years ago, a trend that suggests LOTS more academic money and focus.

Swarbrick is running an athletic department with a football program that brought in about $130 million in 2022...despite the fact that COVID and other administrative decisions limited activity on campus and bookstore inventory during football weekends.

Fact is, Swarbrick makes money for Notre Dame, academic funding (which supports THE mission of the SCHOOL) is growing as is the endowment, so Jenkins is winning...and it's interesting that alumni giving is focused on academics, NOT athletics.

Notre Dame may never win another Natty...football is getting as ugly and dirty as basketball...but they are a Top 25 American university and a Top 200 Global university and that's what Jenkins and Swarbrick (and I) care about...

 

[IrishBeer]

ND is an academic school. Top 20. I disagree with Chase here for the most part as I do think it’s possible to win a title without resorting to being a no standard Bama. My one caveat is that Duke, a similarly ranked undergraduate school (actually quite a few spots higher than ND), does bend and does very well in basketball. Maybe it’s easier since basketball is just a few players vs football. IDK. I will say, there are no great academic schools (exception is Michigan but they’re basically on par with ND in football) that put together much of a football program besides ND, so I’m guessing we already bend the rules to quite a large degree. How much lower are you willing to go? There are 100 guys on a football team and 8,000 students. We can’t let in 100 kids with 1.4 gpas without reading and math skills and offer them special make credit or online classes like Bama and Ohio State just so they can play football. ND has unique challenges because it’s small.

 

[ticat]

ND is an academic school. Top 20. I disagree with Chase here for the most part as I do think it’s possible to win a title without resorting to being a no standard Bama. My one caveat is that Duke, a similarly ranked undergraduate school (actually quite a few spots higher than ND), does bend and does very well in basketball. Maybe it’s easier since basketball is just a few players vs football. IDK. I will say, there are no great academic schools (exception is Michigan but they’re basically on par with ND in football) that put together much of a football program besides ND, so I’m guessing we already bend the rules to quite a large degree. How much lower are you willing to go? There are 100 guys on a football team and 8,000 students. We can’t let in 100 kids with 1.4 gpas and offer them special make credit classes.

Duke is a great school but it's a doctoral and medical university, meaning LOTS more academic resources available...and I've asked friends at Duke why they are easy on BB players and not on FB players...answer was Coach K got what Coach K wanted...probably like 'Bama football...

 

[IrishBeer]

Maybe we never will win a title again. Maybe we will. Either way, ND has an aura about it and is way more esteemed across the country as an undergraduate institution than the football factories. Football is just a sport. ND would lose its luster if it sold out its academics for football and with that it would lose its image. Are there some controversial changes we could make without losing that image like dropping foreign language requirements for all students? Probably. But that would only have helped one kid this year. There are probably no scholarship football players at ND that would have gotten in without football. We already do a lot more for them than other kids. In my opinion, being critical of certain aspects of a football program and demanding better results is sort of the job of the average fan, but if one really understands ND, insinuating changes to academics to win games is simply not an option.

My concern is not academics and instead about our lack of QB talent and development over the past decade. There were a lot of smart 5 star QBs that should theoretically have wanted to play in the spotlight that is ND. We have simply struggled landing and developing them. This is not an academic issue and instead a coaching issue. It might be changing with Hartman and Carr. I was disappointed by the OC hire, but Carr is still committed and Hartman is growing in the offense. Gino seems popular with Hartman, which is a good sign. We would have won a lot more games and possibly a title or two over the past 10 years by simply getting the right guy at the most important position. ND has more money than just about anybody and I feel they could hire the very best staff in the nation to support our academically sound but still gifted athletes. That is where my critique resides. I’m optimistic this might be changing, at least in regard to recruiting the QB position.

 

[sjb75]

Maybe we never will win a title again. Maybe we will. Either way, ND has an aura about it and is way more esteemed across the country as an undergraduate institution than the football factories. Football is just a sport. ND would lose its luster if it sold out its academics for football and with that it would lose its image. Are there some controversial changes we could make without losing that image like dropping foreign language requirements for all students? Probably. But that would only have helped one kid this year. There are probably no scholarship football players at ND that would have gotten in without football. We already do a lot more for them than other kids. In my opinion, being critical of certain aspects of a football program and demanding better results is sort of the job of the average fan, but if one really understands ND, insinuating changes to academics to win games is simply not an option.

My concern is not academics and instead about our lack of QB talent and development over the past decade. There were a lot of smart 5 star QBs that should theoretically have wanted to play in the spotlight that is ND. We have simply struggled landing and developing them. This is not an academic issue and instead a coaching issue. It might be changing with Hartman and Carr. I was disappointed by the OC hire, but Carr is still committed and Hartman is growing in the offense. Gino seems popular with Hartman, which is a good sign. We would have won a lot more games and possibly a title or two over the past 10 years by simply getting the right guy at the most important position. ND has more money than just about anybody and I feel they could hire the very best staff in the nation to support our academically sound but still gifted athletes. That is where my critique resides. I’m optimistic this might be changing, at least in regard to recruiting the QB position.

You may not: however, Nick Saban certainly respects the current Notre Dame coaching tree.

 

[IrishBeer]

You may not: however, Nick Saban certainly respects the current Notre Dame coaching tree.

That’s fine. It hasn’t gone super well so far. Maybe Saban will eventually fire Rees. Maybe he won’t. We shall see.

 

[d1042]

Top 12 Baby!

 

[NWfor3]

I know you hear this time and again, but I'm bored, it's cold and wet outside....so one more time...

Jenkins and Swarbrick are doing what they are supposed to do: Deliver a top-notch university to the administration and the students therein, NOT win a minor-pro football championship.

Jenkins is leading a school that spends (and therefore, acquires) nearly $250 million annually on research and educational activity, a value that is quite impressive for a university in Notre Dame's category (Undergraduate Teaching). By the way, this amount is one-third greater than research funding from five years ago, a trend that suggests LOTS more academic money and focus.

Swarbrick is running an athletic department with a football program that brought in about $130 million in 2022...despite the fact that COVID and other administrative decisions limited activity on campus and bookstore inventory during football weekends.

Fact is, Swarbrick makes money for Notre Dame, academic funding (which supports THE mission of the SCHOOL) is growing as is the endowment, so Jenkins is winning...and it's interesting that alumni giving is focused on academics, NOT athletics.

Notre Dame may never win another Natty...football is getting as ugly and dirty as basketball...but they are a Top 25 American university and a Top 200 Global university and that's what Jenkins and Swarbrick (and I) care about...

I agree with your thoughts...100%. Problem is, there are some on this site who cannot deal with common sense and reality!

 

[IrishBeer]

I agree with your thoughts...100%. Problem is, there are some on this site who cannot deal with common sense and reality!

I agree academics are first priority and should be. I disagree on being positive about Jenkins. He’s a priest so as a Catholic it makes me somewhat uncomfortable criticizing him generally, but he’s not immune from critique given his high level job. He’s been a Jack ass about some really big things. I’d love to see him retire.

 

[mrwigglesby21]

I've been posting the same message since Weis left and have been proven right 13 times in a row. I've charted data, i've linked to authoritative resources, i've practically written a book on the topic, etc.

That's also part of the problem, it doesn't matter if you are accurate or not, Notre Dame fans simply refuse to have a frank discussion about the elephant in the room so they revert to the types of responses you see in this very thread (name calling, trolling, derailing discussion, etc.)

You are not tossing these brickbats out in a haphazard manner, I appreciate that. We all want to land more Top 50 players. How would you recommend ND do this while maintaining it's academic and student-body inclusion standards?

 

[Pennick4]

You should work for CNN with that narrative

He could be paired on the am show with Dawn Lemon.

 

[mirer03]

Don't feed troll

 

[Telx1]

I don’t accept that we need to sacrifice our academic standards to win a NC. Yes, it would make it easier to compete for the elite talent, but it appears to me that an increasing number of the Top high school players are factoring academics into their decisions. That said, I’d like to see ND re-evaluate their minimum class requirements for All students, not to reduce or compromise the focus on academic excellence, but to validate relevancy of specific classes.

 

[savvyandsassier]

ND dropping its academic standards probably wouldn't even help, unless they were really smart about it. ND has a goody to shoes culture, irrespective of entrance requirements, or even the workload once you get there. I mean it's a really prissy ass looking place these days. So you gotta find guys that will be good with that, and thrive in that environment. Otherwise you're just going to see more transfers, and flunkings-out.

But if ND wanted to kill it with recruiting, all they'd have to do is be willing to pay the market price for top talent. With pay for play, they're finally in a position to get the horses they need to be on even terms with the SEC. But they're so morally pretentious that they won't effin' do it. It's just sitting there right in front of them, there for the taking. But they're so invested in their brand, which is totally discredited at this point, that they're still not going to do it, and they got all the money for it, they have it in droves.... Not so much ND itself that is discredited, but rather the notion that there was anything moral or holier than thou about the strict enforcement of the previous, supremely unjust rules regime. That much is totally discredited And since ND is still defining itself by being a good little altar boy and following the rules to the letter, and in this case that means the NCAA's rules, and they're the most discredited, nay most disgraced institution of them all..... they wouldn't pay Dante Moore what he was presumably asking. Even though I'm glad for that because I like Minchey better.

But we could have had Dante Moore, I feel it's fair to assert. All we had to do was pay the piper. And it's totally effin' legal. I don't give a shit about NCAA rules, they're not worth the paper they're written on. I'm talking Supreme Court rules, the ones that actually matter in our civilized, law and order society.

So ND doesn't need to lower their standards, that would be the wrong tack to take. That would backfire. But they could start buying players, and yet they still won't do it. So that's on them.....

 

[chaseball]

This was a topic published a little over a year ago before Swarbrick and Jenkins resignation was publicly known. Just thought that was a funny coincidence.

Also, seems like a lot has changed with the way the ND program is operating lately (in a positive way). It seems like there's a new energy about doing what it takes to compete with the best programs in the country--and providing the program with the resources they need to beat anybody--under this new AD.

We'll see with the quality of talent we have coming in in these upcoming recruiting classes if it is just talk or if the necessary improvements/investments are being made to level the playing field at Notre Dame.

 

[Golson5]

This was a topic published a little over a year ago before Swarbrick and Jenkins resignation was publicly known. Just thought that was a funny coincidence.

Also, seems like a lot has changed with the way the ND program is operating lately (in a positive way). It seems like there's a new energy about doing what it takes to compete with the best programs in the country--and providing the program with the resources they need to beat anybody--under this new AD.

We'll see with the quality of talent we have coming in in these upcoming recruiting classes if it is just talk or if the necessary improvements/investments are being made to level the playing field at Notre Dame.

Has nothing to do with the new AD, all this was done prior to him becoming AD.

 

[sjb75]

Has nothing to do with the new AD, all this was done prior to him becoming AD.

X2.

 

[ticat]

Has nothing to do with the new AD, all this was done prior to him becoming AD.

Probably has Swarbrick's fingerprints all over the changes...the guy was a positive change agent