I'm all confused......

[football1irish]

The consistent message I've ascertained from the board established talking points was ND didn't make the playoffs last year because of injuries.

I've also read we can't win because of academics, weather and location but never because of flaws in our current coach.

With the above said then how does ND have 10 NFL combine invites? Further in the attached link Mike Mayock indicates 8 to 10 ND players will be drafted and 5 are anticipated to go in the top 75 picks!?!?!?!

All of these soon to be drafted players played in 95%+ of our games last year as an aggregate. I'm also told that replacements Josh Adams and Deshone Kizer are sure fire 1st round talents as well.

So clearly near losses to mid-majors Virginia, Temple, Boston College, Wake Forest and losses to Clemson, OSU and even Stanford were because of injuries, weather and location.

It would be a shame if we didn't really make the playoffs because our coach calls perplexing wide receiver screens on the goal line against BC. Or that we come out flat even in major Bowl Games against OSU. Or that he made our defense play 10 on 11 all year by refusing to sit Joe Schmidt. Or because he refuses to hire a stud DC from someone outside his own coaching tree.

I'm glad I believe everything I read as ignorance truly is bliss.

http://watchnd.tv/#!/videos/EyN2VqMjE66D1j9tXGJUmXJKHkd4T38N

 

[perseverare]

a conundrum

 

[Pennick4]

The consistent message I've ascertained from the board established talking points was ND didn't make the playoffs last year because of injuries.

I've also read we can't win because of academics, weather and location but never because of flaws in our current coach.

With the above said then how does ND have 10 NFL combine invites? Further in the attached link Mike Mayock indicates 8 to 10 ND players will be drafted and 5 are anticipated to go in the top 75 picks!?!?!?!

All of these soon to be drafted players played in 95%+ of our games last year as an aggregate. I'm also told that replacements Josh Adams and Deshone Kizer are sure fire 1st round talents as well.

So clearly near losses to mid-majors Virginia, Temple, Boston College, Wake Forest and losses to Clemson, OSU and even Stanford were because of injuries, weather and location.

It would be a shame if we didn't really make the playoffs because our coach calls perplexing wide receiver screens on the goal line against BC. Or that we come out flat even in major Bowl Games against OSU. Or that he made our defense play 10 on 11 all year by refusing to sit Joe Schmidt. Or because he refuses to hire a stud DC from someone outside his own coaching tree.

I'm glad I believe everything I read as ignorance truly is bliss.

http://watchnd.tv/#!/videos/EyN2VqMjE66D1j9tXGJUmXJKHkd4T38N

There is no such things as a close loss. Wins or losses. Brian Kelly is doing a great job building up the program and that is why he got the extension and a raise.

 

[echowaker]

The consistent message I've ascertained from the board established talking points was ND didn't make the playoffs last year because of injuries.

I've also read we can't win because of academics, weather and location but never because of flaws in our current coach.

With the above said then how does ND have 10 NFL combine invites? Further in the attached link Mike Mayock indicates 8 to 10 ND players will be drafted and 5 are anticipated to go in the top 75 picks!?!?!?!

All of these soon to be drafted players played in 95%+ of our games last year as an aggregate. I'm also told that replacements Josh Adams and Deshone Kizer are sure fire 1st round talents as well.

So clearly near losses to mid-majors Virginia, Temple, Boston College, Wake Forest and losses to Clemson, OSU and even Stanford were because of injuries, weather and location.

It would be a shame if we didn't really make the playoffs because our coach calls perplexing wide receiver screens on the goal line against BC. Or that we come out flat even in major Bowl Games against OSU. Or that he made our defense play 10 on 11 all year by refusing to sit Joe Schmidt. Or because he refuses to hire a stud DC from someone outside his own coaching tree.

I'm glad I believe everything I read as ignorance truly is bliss.

http://watchnd.tv/#!/videos/EyN2VqMjE66D1j9tXGJUmXJKHkd4T38N

You are correct. You are very confused.

 

[chaseball]

As fans, i realize it's much easier to blame the programs lack of success on a bad call or even a bad coaching hire--those are relatively simple fixes--but NDs lack of success over the last 30+ years goes way beyond that.

Brian Kelly has done an excellent job developing/maximizing the talent he's been able to recruit, but the ND brand is simply unable to pull in the level of talent required to level the playing field with the modern day FBS power programs.

For all of NDs draft success in recent years, they still rank outside of the top 10 in terms of draft picks and more importantly 1st round draft picks since 2010: http://www.sportingnews.com/list/46...alabama-lsu-florida-state-oklahoma-ohio-state

 

[football1irish]

As fans, i realize it's much easier to blame the programs lack of success on a bad call or even a bad coaching hire--those are relatively simple fixes--but NDs lack of success over the last 30+ years goes way beyond that.

Brian Kelly has done an excellent job developing/maximizing the talent he's been able to recruit, but the ND brand is simply unable to pull in the level of talent required to level the playing field with the modern day FBS power programs.

For all of NDs draft success in recent years, they still rank outside of the top 10 in terms of draft picks and more importantly 1st round draft picks since 2010: http://www.sportingnews.com/list/46...alabama-lsu-florida-state-oklahoma-ohio-state

I'm so glad I came here for the "truth" which I knew the long time posters here would provide me.

I was really starting to get upset that ND was feeding us a bill of goods by letting a bad coach run free with no accountability or oversight in exchange for millions in compensation.

Someone told me that ND should win at the highest level like the Patriots do who view intelligence and discipline as great assets while the ND message board views them both as liabilities. After all the Patriots have had to deal with a 6th round QB, a restrictive salary cap, coaching turnover and drafting near the bottom of the 1st and 2nd round for years!! These handicaps have led to very little success as they've only managed to have near annual Super Bowl appearances.

The expectation should remain the ND establishment's expectation that 2-5 loss seasons with a bowl loss are worthy of millions and endless contract extensions.

I can't believe Frank Leahy and Knute Rockne were legends at ND for all that winning. Didn't they know that losing and excuses are the ND mantra???

 

[NDSMC78]

As fans, i realize it's much easier to blame the programs lack of success on a bad call or even a bad coaching hire--those are relatively simple fixes--but NDs lack of success over the last 30+ years goes way beyond that.

Brian Kelly has done an excellent job developing/maximizing the talent he's been able to recruit, but the ND brand is simply unable to pull in the level of talent required to level the playing field with the modern day FBS power programs.

For all of NDs draft success in recent years, they still rank outside of the top 10 in terms of draft picks and more importantly 1st round draft picks since 2010: http://www.sportingnews.com/list/46...alabama-lsu-florida-state-oklahoma-ohio-state

Did you notice how Alabama was doing before Saban arrived? Did you notice how Oklahoma was doing before Stoops arrived? Do you think there is a reason for this?

 

[perseverare]

is there a CliffsNotes version of this thread?

 

[chaseball]

The challenges/environment in which an NFL team acquires talent is in no way comparable to how an FBS institution does.

Comparing modern day college football to that of the times of the mid 20th century is also silly. What makes a program attractive to the top talent in the country is entirely different now.

The bottom line is, whether it's weather, academic restrictions, an eroded brand, etc. ND is unable to acquire the talent necessary to level the playing field among the perennial top 5 programs in the country. The teams that dominate the recruiting rankings year in and year out, are the teams that win national championships year in and year out. That's an undeniable fact, and unfortunately, ND is on the outside looking in.

 

[perseverare]

 

[NDSMC78]

The challenges/environment in which an NFL team acquires talent is in no way comparable to how an FBS institution does.

Comparing modern day college football to that of the times of the mid 20th century is also silly. What makes a program attractive to the top talent in the country is entirely different now.

The bottom line is, whether it's weather, academic restrictions, an eroded brand, etc. ND is unable to acquire the talent necessary to level the playing field among the perennial top 5 programs in the country. The teams that dominate the recruiting rankings year in and year out, are the teams that win national championships year in and year out. That's an undeniable fact, and unfortunately, ND is on the outside looking in.

You totally ignored my point, which is understandable, because I shot a big hole in your position. Alabama and Oklahoma, which do not have the academic restrictions which ND has, struggled mightily before Saban and Stops came on board. They either were not able to bring in the talent or were unable to develop it, both of which are coaching issues. Your claim that ND's problems on the field over the past three decades go "way beyond" coaching is erroneous. Coaching is extremely important as we have seen time and time again at school after school.

 

[echowaker]

I'm so glad I came here for the "truth" which I knew the long time posters here would provide me.

I was really starting to get upset that ND was feeding us a bill of goods by letting a bad coach run free with no accountability or oversight in exchange for millions in compensation.

Someone told me that ND should win at the highest level like the Patriots do who view intelligence and discipline as great assets while the ND message board views them both as liabilities. After all the Patriots have had to deal with a 6th round QB, a restrictive salary cap, coaching turnover and drafting near the bottom of the 1st and 2nd round for years!! These handicaps have led to very little success as they've only managed to have near annual Super Bowl appearances.

The expectation should remain the ND establishment's expectation that 2-5 loss seasons with a bowl loss are worthy of millions and endless contract extensions.

I can't believe Frank Leahy and Knute Rockne where legends at ND for all that winning. Didn't they know that losing and excuses are the ND mantra???

who is this "bad coach " you refer to ?

 

[Java65]

First, It takes more than 8-10 great players to be a great team.

Secondly, yes BK has made some mistakes but he's also has done some really good things. I think it's too simplistic to say that 1 or 2 things are the issue. I think that the restrictions at ND, both in recruiting and time dedicated to football activities by players puts ND at a disadvantage. Because of these disadvantages I think an ND coach is afforded fewer mistakes than coaches at other programs.

I think Kelly could make changes that could improve the program but I also think he is at a disadvantage when compared to other coaches.

 

[IrishBlooded]

The consistent message I've ascertained from the board established talking points was ND didn't make the playoffs last year because of injuries.

I've also read we can't win because of academics, weather and location but never because of flaws in our current coach.

With the above said then how does ND have 10 NFL combine invites? Further in the attached link Mike Mayock indicates 8 to 10 ND players will be drafted and 5 are anticipated to go in the top 75 picks!?!?!?!

All of these soon to be drafted players played in 95%+ of our games last year as an aggregate. I'm also told that replacements Josh Adams and Deshone Kizer are sure fire 1st round talents as well.

So clearly near losses to mid-majors Virginia, Temple, Boston College, Wake Forest and losses to Clemson, OSU and even Stanford were because of injuries, weather and location.

It would be a shame if we didn't really make the playoffs because our coach calls perplexing wide receiver screens on the goal line against BC. Or that we come out flat even in major Bowl Games against OSU. Or that he made our defense play 10 on 11 all year by refusing to sit Joe Schmidt. Or because he refuses to hire a stud DC from someone outside his own coaching tree.

I'm glad I believe everything I read as ignorance truly is bliss.

http://watchnd.tv/#!/videos/EyN2VqMjE66D1j9tXGJUmXJKHkd4T38N

I think you should put in your application and show us all how your superior knowledge and intellect of the game can do better than what is currently happening.

 

[cgvr]

The consistent message I've ascertained from the board established talking points was ND didn't make the playoffs last year because of injuries.

I've also read we can't win because of academics, weather and location but never because of flaws in our current coach.

With the above said then how does ND have 10 NFL combine invites? Further in the attached link Mike Mayock indicates 8 to 10 ND players will be drafted and 5 are anticipated to go in the top 75 picks!?!?!?!

All of these soon to be drafted players played in 95%+ of our games last year as an aggregate. I'm also told that replacements Josh Adams and Deshone Kizer are sure fire 1st round talents as well.

So clearly near losses to mid-majors Virginia, Temple, Boston College, Wake Forest and losses to Clemson, OSU and even Stanford were because of injuries, weather and location.

It would be a shame if we didn't really make the playoffs because our coach calls perplexing wide receiver screens on the goal line against BC. Or that we come out flat even in major Bowl Games against OSU. Or that he made our defense play 10 on 11 all year by refusing to sit Joe Schmidt. Or because he refuses to hire a stud DC from someone outside his own coaching tree.

I'm glad I believe everything I read as ignorance truly is bliss.

http://watchnd.tv/#!/videos/EyN2VqMjE66D1j9tXGJUmXJKHkd4T38N

There is a ton of just flat out nonsense in this thread.

Stanford has won 66 games to kelly's 55 during the past 6 years. They are lapping us scholastically and on the grid iron. imo We will never match their Academics. Their endowment is off the charts and their Medical facilities, including cancer research, are world class.

Stanford has won 12 games 3 times and 11 twice in that 6 year stretch. They have also been to 5 major bowl games winning 3. They have embraced our historic brand of football which is physical and intellectual brutality. They have done it with less talent (check recruiting rankings), far better coaching and elite training....among other things. Their brand of "smash mouth/power" football lends itself to far more consistency than ours'.

Our "pop gun/squirt gun/everybody rotate brand" of football has its' flashes, but it lacks any semblance of consistent physical domination. We don't intimidate anyone. We are viewed by opponents as beatable every weekend. Heck, umass had us at 21-20 with a few minutes left in the half before the floodgates opened. We have zero identity other than inconsistency. The only championship caliber unit throughout this regime's tenure was Diaco's in '12.

PS van gorder's D is an albatross.... I hope Lyght is talking sense into him.

 

[FLballcoach1]

David Shaw took over a Top 5 Football Team. Brian Kelly took over a 6-6 dumpster fire. Shaw took over a team that was rebuilt by Harbaugh. Shaw to his credit has kept the bus on the road,'

Brian Kelly had to dig the bus out of ditch, fix the bus and then drive it down the road.

The last 4 years ND is 2-2 vs Stanford. Brian Kelly is 39-12 David Shaw is 43-12.

It is so cute when you try...but try harder jock sniffer.

 

[cgvr]

David Shaw took over a Top 5 Football Team. Brian Kelly took over a 6-6 dumpster fire. Shaw took over a team that was rebuilt by Harbaugh. Shaw to his credit has kept the bus on the road,'

Brian Kelly had to dig the bus out of ditch, fix the bus and then drive it down the road.

The last 4 years ND is 2-2 vs Stanford. Brian Kelly is 39-12 David Shaw is 43-12.

It is so cute when you try...but try harder jock sniffer.

Really? kelly inherited a program that had been to BCS Bowl games in 2 of the prior 4 years. Stanford's '11 Orange Bowl appearance was their first major bowl in a decade. The vulgar pipsqueak also inherited a program with 3 Top 10 recruiting classes in the prior 4 years including a # 2. That's hardly a dumpster fire. Would you care to describe the dumpster fire that Harbaugh inherited? kelly is 2-4 versus Stanford. Shaw owns 3 of those wins....

Would you care to compare recruiting rankings over the last 10 years? Here you go....

ND/Stanford recruiting rankings:

2006 8 54
2007 8 51
2008 2 50
2009 21 20
2010 14 26
2011 10 22
2012 20 5
2013 3 63
2014 11 14
2015 11 18
2016 12 19

Listen gimpy, keep limping around a HS letting kids know that if not for a HS football injury you'd be in the NFL hall of fame... Sharing laundry duty with an NFL has been is hardly impressive. However, it gives you access to the things you need.
PS Inheriting one of the most prolific defensive players in CFB history was a tough break too..... It was interesting to see "foot in the mouth" kelly have to apologize to him and others......

 

[perseverare]

ND player talent is good enough to beat (to be reasonably expected to beat) anyone but maybe 6-8 teams in any given year the way things are currently. A win over those 6-8 teams might be considered as an upset.

Kelly has already coached longer at ND without winning a NC than any of his predessessors. He still has 6 seasons more. It might be a stretch to expect a NC, but at least a major W in a major Bowl should be a minimum before his tenure is over.

 

[mbd11]

Kelly has struggled a bit against highly-ranked opponents. Some of us question his Xs and Os sometimes. However, the program's certainly in the best shape it's been in since Holtz's heyday from 1988-1993. We can play with anyone at this point, which wasn't the case during the Davie/Willingham/Weis years.

 

[Irishjohn68]

I'm so glad I came here for the "truth" which I knew the long time posters here would provide me.

I was really starting to get upset that ND was feeding us a bill of goods by letting a bad coach run free with no accountability or oversight in exchange for millions in compensation.

Someone told me that ND should win at the highest level like the Patriots do who view intelligence and discipline as great assets while the ND message board views them both as liabilities. After all the Patriots have had to deal with a 6th round QB, a restrictive salary cap, coaching turnover and drafting near the bottom of the 1st and 2nd round for years!! These handicaps have led to very little success as they've only managed to have near annual Super Bowl appearances.

The expectation should remain the ND establishment's expectation that 2-5 loss seasons with a bowl loss are worthy of millions and endless contract extensions.

I can't believe Frank Leahy and Knute Rockne where legends at ND for all that winning. Didn't they know that losing and excuses are the ND mantra???

So you are going to compare ND (college team) to NE Pats (a NFL team). Good call!

 

[Irishjohn68]

Really? kelly inherited a program that had been to BCS Bowl games in 2 of the prior 4 years. Stanford's '11 Orange Bowl appearance was their first major bowl in a decade. The vulgar pipsqueak also inherited a program with 3 Top 10 recruiting classes in the prior 4 years including a # 2. That's hardly a dumpster fire. Would you care to describe the dumpster fire that Harbaugh inherited? kelly is 2-4 versus Stanford. Shaw owns 3 of those wins....

Would you care to compare recruiting rankings over the last 10 years? Here you go....

ND/Stanford recruiting rankings:

2006 8 54
2007 8 51
2008 2 50
2009 21 20
2010 14 26
2011 10 22
2012 20 5
2013 3 63
2014 11 14
2015 11 18
2016 12 19

Listen gimpy, keep limping around a HS letting kids know that if not for a HS football injury you'd be in the NFL hall of fame... Sharing laundry duty with an NFL has been is hardly impressive. However, it gives you access to the things you need.
PS Inheriting one of the most prolific defensive players in CFB history was a tough break too..... It was interesting to see "foot in the mouth" kelly have to apologize to him and others......

So you would like Fat Chuck back?

 

[stu4don]

Perse -- I hear you. But I do think Kelly is doing a much better job recruiting AND DEVELOPING players at ND (and yes, we are competitive where we weren't since Holtz.) Still, it is disheartening when I look on the scout site and see that even though we are listed #3 in recruiting... we only have 1 top 100 player.

Alabama has 3!
OSU has 7!!!!

Makes it hard to compete. Still, I remain hopeful!

 

[perseverare]

stu

I have already (several times) posted that Kelly is probably doing as good a job as anyone, not named Meyer or Saban, could be expected to do. But frankly, Kelly's best shot at a NC was his 1st contract; it is going to be well nigh impossible for him in the second 6 years as the playing field becomes less level each passing season.
But he better have at least 1 major bowl win in his 12 years! Else the talk of 'greatness' was not just premature, it would have been turned out greatly exaggerated!

 

[perseverare]

the thing is it all hinged a a couple DT/DE commits that just did not happen. Had ND not missed on a couple elites for the DL things might have been or be looking much different; a very delicate balance between good and great!

 

[BGI User 1596]

Coach Kelly took over a team that went 3-9, 7-6, and 6-6 over the last three years before arriving in 2010. If Coach Weis and his staff had developed those recruiting classes then Coach Kelly wouldn't be at ND today. From 1994 through 2009 (16 years) ND had 2-10 win season; 4-9 win seasons; 1-8 win season; three teams combined for a modest 20-17-1 record; and two teams had .500 seasons. There were 4 losing seasons during that time. The combine record was 114-79-1 .593 over the 16 year period. Coach Kelly's record following the nightmare from Gehenna is 55-23 .705. ND has 1-12 win season; 1-10 win season; 1-9 win season; and 3- 8 win seasons. The story has gained momentum over the last 4 seasons: 12-1, 9-4, 8-5, and 10-3. I'm confident that he'll leave the program in much better shape than when he arrived back in December of 2009.

I agree with you Pers. I'll never call a coach great with 22 loses at ND. However, I think he's doing excellant given the situation he inherited in 2009. Great at ND is set at above .800 percentage.

http://www.und.com/sports/m-footbl/archive/nd-m-footbl-archive.html

He has a chance to become great if he wins a couple of NC's. His choice of BVG on the "D" isn't helping at the moment.

 

[cgvr]

Coach Kelly took over a team that went 3-9, 7-6, and 6-6 over the last three years before arriving in 2010. If Coach Weis and his staff had developed those recruiting classes then Coach Kelly wouldn't be at ND today. From 1994 through 2009 (16 years) ND had 2-10 win season; 4-9 win seasons; 1-8 win season; three teams combined for a modest 20-17-1 record; and two teams had .500 seasons. There were 4 losing seasons during that time. The combine record was 114-79-1 .593 over the 16 year period. Coach Kelly's record following the nightmare from Gehenna is 55-23 .705. ND has 1-12 win season; 1-10 win season; 1-9 win season; and 3- 8 win seasons. The story has gained momentum over the last 4 seasons: 12-1, 9-4, 8-5, and 10-3. I'm confident that he'll leave the program in much better shape than when he arrived back in December of 2009.

I agree with you Pers. I'll never call a coach great with 22 loses at ND. However, I think he's doing excellant given the situation he inherited in 2009. Great at ND is set at above .800 percentage.

http://www.und.com/sports/m-footbl/archive/nd-m-footbl-archive.html

During your 22 year time frame we had 2 11 game seasons, 10 12 game seasons and 10 13 game seasons. kelly's season win totals are boosted by the fact that all his seasons were 13 games. Think about that when you are quoting 8 and 9 win seasons.... At the end of the day his winning percentage is ahead of weis', willngham's and Davies' whoopdeedoo....

PS 2 of his 8 wins season were accomplished in the 13th game as was his 9 win total.
Lastly, Dan Devine and Lou Holtz were great ND caoches. Their WPs were .76429 and .76515

 

[Pennick4]

During your 22 year time frame we had 2 11 game seasons, 10 12 game seasons and 10 13 game seasons. kelly's season win totals are boosted by the fact that all his seasons were 13 games. Think about that when you are quoting 8 and 9 win seasons.... At the end of the day his winning percentage is ahead of weis', willngham's and Davies' whoopdeedoo....

PS 2 of his 8 wins season were accomplished in the 13th game as was his 9 win total.
Lastly, Dan Devine and Lou Holtz were great ND caoches. Their WPs were .76429 and .76515

He is at the top of his profession and that is why he got the big extension and raise. He took over a crappy program and it is now one that can compete for the playoffs year after year.

 

[perseverare]

Kelly inherited a whole lot of talent from Weis. It was talent Weis failed to utilize.
The OL was where the problem was.
The defensive personel did not fit the Diaco blueprint. That was a problem created by scheme change.

 

[perseverare]

amazing forum that claims Weis was a good recruiter and then states Kelly inherited a talentless bunch!

double talk!

 

[Pennick4]

Kelly inherited a whole lot of talent from Weis. It was talent Weis failed to utilize.
The OL was where the problem was.
The defensive personel did not fit the Diaco blueprint. That was a problem created by scheme change.

The program was a steaming pile. Qb's of Montana, Rees and Crist with coaches fighting each other during practices. One of the co defensive coordinators was dealing with health issues probably CTE.
It was a major reclamation project.

 

[mbd11]

Kelly inherited a whole lot of talent from Weis. It was talent Weis failed to utilize.
The OL was where the problem was.
The defensive personel did not fit the Diaco blueprint. That was a problem created by scheme change.

I agree Weis didn't leave an empty cupboard. However, he failed to develop it, other than Clausen and his receivers, who left when Weis was fired. There was also a lack of speed on defense. Kelly has upgraded team speed quite a bit, as well as other areas like OL.

But Weis certainly left some talent behind, like Teo, Zack Martin and Eifert, who were all freshmen in his last season.

 

[end_23]

The consistent message I've ascertained from the board established talking points was ND didn't make the playoffs last year because of injuries.

I've also read we can't win because of academics, weather and location but never because of flaws in our current coach.

With the above said then how does ND have 10 NFL combine invites? Further in the attached link Mike Mayock indicates 8 to 10 ND players will be drafted and 5 are anticipated to go in the top 75 picks!?!?!?!

All of these soon to be drafted players played in 95%+ of our games last year as an aggregate. I'm also told that replacements Josh Adams and Deshone Kizer are sure fire 1st round talents as well.

So clearly near losses to mid-majors Virginia, Temple, Boston College, Wake Forest and losses to Clemson, OSU and even Stanford were because of injuries, weather and location.

It would be a shame if we didn't really make the playoffs because our coach calls perplexing wide receiver screens on the goal line against BC. Or that we come out flat even in major Bowl Games against OSU. Or that he made our defense play 10 on 11 all year by refusing to sit Joe Schmidt. Or because he refuses to hire a stud DC from someone outside his own coaching tree.

I'm glad I believe everything I read as ignorance truly is bliss.

http://watchnd.tv/#!/videos/EyN2VqMjE66D1j9tXGJUmXJKHkd4T38N

At first I thought I was reading my own writing for a second. Well stated! As I've been saying for years, Kelly is a bad in-game coach. He's clueless and these lovers of 3-5 loss seasons in here are in pure delusionville.

 

[end_23]

As fans, i realize it's much easier to blame the programs lack of success on a bad call or even a bad coaching hire--those are relatively simple fixes--but NDs lack of success over the last 30+ years goes way beyond that.

Brian Kelly has done an excellent job developing/maximizing the talent he's been able to recruit, but the ND brand is simply unable to pull in the level of talent required to level the playing field with the modern day FBS power programs.

For all of NDs draft success in recent years, they still rank outside of the top 10 in terms of draft picks and more importantly 1st round draft picks since 2010: http://www.sportingnews.com/list/46...alabama-lsu-florida-state-oklahoma-ohio-state

Coaching cost ND the Stanford game last year. It cost the team a shot at OT in Clemson. Lost to FSU and NW in '14 because of two idiotic play calls. I get what you're saying, to a point. However, since taking over, Kelly has lost so many games that should have been wins. You can't deny he squandered the big time talent he walked into as well when he arrived in 2010. A quality coach blows out Michigan in 2011 with arguably the best player in the country- Floyd. Instead Kelly lost another game that was a lock.

 

[end_23]

I think you should put in your application and show us all how your superior knowledge and intellect of the game can do better than what is currently happening.

Pathetic attempt at a reply. Facts hurt.

 

[end_23]

Kelly has struggled a bit against highly-ranked opponents. Some of us question his Xs and Os sometimes. However, the program's certainly in the best shape it's been in since Holtz's heyday from 1988-1993. We can play with anyone at this point, which wasn't the case during the Davie/Willingham/Weis years.

That's not saying much considering the coaches in between Holtz and Kelly.

 

[stu4don]

How did he develop Clausen? JC hardly played an effective down after ND.

 

[stu4don]

the thing is it all hinged a a couple DT/DE commits that just did not happen. Had ND not missed on a couple elites for the DL things might have been or be looking much different; a very delicate balance between good and great!

And perhaps his (only) bad hire?

 

[Irishjohn68]

Coaching cost ND the Stanford game last year. It cost the team a shot at OT in Clemson. Lost to FSU and NW in '14 because of two idiotic play calls. I get what you're saying, to a point. However, since taking over, Kelly has lost so many games that should have been wins. You can't deny he squandered the big time talent he walked into as well when he arrived in 2010. A quality coach blows out Michigan in 2011 with arguably the best player in the country- Floyd. Instead Kelly lost another game that was a lock.

It is so easy to point out the loses and you want to blame him for that, ok. Then by the same token you have to give Kelly credit for all the wins he has gotten ND.

 

[mmboys07]

There is a ton of just flat out nonsense in this thread.

Stanford has won 66 games to kelly's 55 during the past 6 years. They are lapping us scholastically and on the grid iron. imo We will never match their Academics. Their endowment is off the charts and their Medical facilities, including cancer research, are world class.

Stanford has won 12 games 3 times and 11 twice in that 6 year stretch. They have also been to 5 major bowl games winning 3. They have embraced our historic brand of football which is physical and intellectual brutality. They have done it with less talent (check recruiting rankings), far better coaching and elite training....among other things. Their brand of "smash mouth/power" football lends itself to far more consistency than ours'.

Our "pop gun/squirt gun/everybody rotate brand" of football has its' flashes, but it lacks any semblance of consistent physical domination. We don't intimidate anyone. We are viewed by opponents as beatable every weekend. Heck, umass had us at 21-20 with a few minutes left in the half before the floodgates opened. We have zero identity other than inconsistency. The only championship caliber unit throughout this regime's tenure was Diaco's in '12.

PS van gorder's D is an albatross.... I hope Lyght is talking sense into him.

You are exactly right in all respects. Stanford reminds me of the ND I knew growing up. I have not heard it put so well; I only wish it applied to ND: "They have embraced our historic brand of football which is physical and intellectual brutality." That says it all.

 

[perseverare]

"They have embraced our historic brand of football which is physical and intellectual brutality." That says it all."
^ and everyone knows that can't be successful anymore!


And it doesn't exhibit 'genius'; it is about the players. CF is about the Head Coach these days.

BTW: While the offense moves into elite status, the DL recruiting situation is looking like a repeat of the past 3 years, promise followed by disappointment. D recruitment failures will be evident in the upcoming seasons. If you pair disappointing recruiting with questionable coaching that is not the best plan.