Chidi Okonya / 4 star DE former TN commit. Just announced his taking an official in Jan to ND . Offers from LSU / Georgia / FSU and many others . 6-6 225 pds . Undersized but will RS and frame to add another 40-50 pds. Education very important to him and family . Top school for him is currently Duke. If we want him we get him imo. They'll wait to see how things start to shake out with other higher targets on ND s board but he sounds like a helluva nice plan B .
I have to admit... our lack of recruits is surprising me
- Thread starter justacollegefan
- Start date
I think we have a very good chance to land that class that Dublin listed. It is a stretch at this point on Jones, but he seems interested and if Alloway does indeed go to UCLA I expect the staff to go hard after Jones. It seems they are coveting a speedy slot WR guy and he would fit the bill nicely. Not as highly rated as Alloway but I think he could flourish in our offense. McCollough is the other guy that's a tough read. I think he really likes ND and his mom was rumored to want him to go to ND but that was a while back so who knows where it stands now. As far as the others, I think they're all very realistic.
I've always felt Pride's comments about ND lack enthusiasm, and that he sees us as plan B if he doesn't like the way the coaching situation at Virginia Tech shakes out. And it sounds as though they are keeping the coach he cares about.
We already have Vaughn, Elliott, and Love as potential corners and we appear to be leading Damar Hamlin. And I really hope that kid is Irish. I just love his film; has a nose for the ball, very physical, explosive and fast!
^ "...and don't know who you mean by the "Nigerian"...."
omg, I think I spoke to him on the phone! about my secret British bank account inheritance!
omg, I think I spoke to him on the phone! about my secret British bank account inheritance!
hmmm: ... ever thought about this?
offensive lineman are passive
defensive linemen are aggressive
offensive lineman are passive
defensive linemen are aggressive
http://coltsauthority.com/18-to-88-...cal-evaluations-more-than-just-red-flags.html
^ you never stop trying to sound like you know something more!
over the years these kind of descriptions have been put out there
Defensive linemen: You can count on the defensive lineman to lead the fight.
Cullen Jenkins' low, easy chuckle, the sack dance he does for his kids - it belies the mentality the Packers defensive lineman said is best for his position on the football field.
"Good D-linemen are a little crazy and a little rebellious," Jenkins said. "It's like a pit bull. They look cool, but you always know you have to be careful with them because they have that aggression."
Jenkins said defensive linemen were the toughest group to coach because they also are stubborn and short-fused.
Offensive linemen: Good offensive linemen believe they are a team within the team. They are the anonymous men who do the dirty work. Yet ask any quarterback or coach who really makes the offense go, and they'll tell you it's the reliable big men. So linemen are humble in public, kingly in the huddle.
It often makes the offensive lineman a complex individual. Ominous and intimidating on the field, he's so often loyal, funny and well-meaning off it.
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Not gonna get in a pissing contest; experience indicates talking to you: like talking to a rock.
^ you never stop trying to sound like you know something more!
over the years these kind of descriptions have been put out there
Defensive linemen: You can count on the defensive lineman to lead the fight.
Cullen Jenkins' low, easy chuckle, the sack dance he does for his kids - it belies the mentality the Packers defensive lineman said is best for his position on the football field.
"Good D-linemen are a little crazy and a little rebellious," Jenkins said. "It's like a pit bull. They look cool, but you always know you have to be careful with them because they have that aggression."
Jenkins said defensive linemen were the toughest group to coach because they also are stubborn and short-fused.
Offensive linemen: Good offensive linemen believe they are a team within the team. They are the anonymous men who do the dirty work. Yet ask any quarterback or coach who really makes the offense go, and they'll tell you it's the reliable big men. So linemen are humble in public, kingly in the huddle.
It often makes the offensive lineman a complex individual. Ominous and intimidating on the field, he's so often loyal, funny and well-meaning off it.
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Not gonna get in a pissing contest; experience indicates talking to you: like talking to a rock.
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of course you would think that. i played o-line and have coached it for nearly twenty years. your statement is completely without merit. you cannot play the game of football at a high level with a passive mindset. doesn't work. it's ok to be wrong. in fact one would think you'd be quite used to it by now.
That is why that kid Tillery could never make it on the defensive line
nowhere in the above quotes are references to passiveness in o-linemen on the field of play. feel free to try again to substantiate your erroneous viewpoint.
Actually find this discussion about the differences between OL and DL interesting. Passive in general, doesn't apply to any position in football, but I've always believed there were distinct differences in personalities and characteristics between OL and DL, and have always assumed this contributes in some small part to the challenges we face recruiting DL.
Stereotyping is always a generalization and there are always exceptions, but generally speaking, thought OL were considered more disciplined and orderly and thoughtful. I know when I played college ball, DL were more likely to have a mess for a room, more likely to get into a fight at a party, and generally more inclined to push the boundaries of acceptable behavior.
Echo, will be interested to read your thoughts based on one hell of a lot more experience than the four years that formed these opinions.
Stereotyping is always a generalization and there are always exceptions, but generally speaking, thought OL were considered more disciplined and orderly and thoughtful. I know when I played college ball, DL were more likely to have a mess for a room, more likely to get into a fight at a party, and generally more inclined to push the boundaries of acceptable behavior.
Echo, will be interested to read your thoughts based on one hell of a lot more experience than the four years that formed these opinions.
I know a lot of people love the recruiting numbers (after all this is a recruiting site) but look at Michigan State. Final Football Polls: They have been ranked in the top ten AP and Coaches 4 of the last 5 years. And in the top 5 three of those five years.
Recruiting: not so much. Going back to 2010 they have NEVER been in the top twenty and three of those years they were not even in the top thirty!!! (They are currently 13 for the first time in forever.)
(*Compare that to Georgia a perennial top ten recruiting power which lags in the final polls....)
I have been saying that Dantonio is the best coach in college football -- he does more with less (if we really believe the recruiting numbers) than anyone in college football.
I think it is all about the coaching. (And some good recruits, don't get me wrong. Also, ND players have a tendency to stay for that 4th or 5th year which increases their star power (if you follow my logic a 5th year lineman who was a 3* might play like a 5* -- is this the case at MSU? (I don't have the numbers.)
Let the discussion begin:
Recruiting: not so much. Going back to 2010 they have NEVER been in the top twenty and three of those years they were not even in the top thirty!!! (They are currently 13 for the first time in forever.)
(*Compare that to Georgia a perennial top ten recruiting power which lags in the final polls....)
I have been saying that Dantonio is the best coach in college football -- he does more with less (if we really believe the recruiting numbers) than anyone in college football.
I think it is all about the coaching. (And some good recruits, don't get me wrong. Also, ND players have a tendency to stay for that 4th or 5th year which increases their star power (if you follow my logic a 5th year lineman who was a 3* might play like a 5* -- is this the case at MSU? (I don't have the numbers.)
Let the discussion begin:
That's pretty amazing stu! I am a fan of Dantonio as a coach and think he could be a Saban-esque coach if he goes to the more 'football factory' schools out there. I know this is OBE but if I am SC, I show Dantonio a blank check and tell him to write in his number.
Stu...I've enjoyed the respite from the perennial back and forth as to whether recruiting stumps coaching or visa versa. But I'll bite. I am in the camp that says coaching and player development differentiates among the top teams. But I also firmly believe that you have a much greater margin for error the more highly ranked players you recruit. I'll take a top ten recruiting result annually with Kelly as our coach and be happy, and let others argue whether it's talent or coaching fueling our future success.
Yes he is a good coach and there is no doubt teams need quality position coaches to win. Just look at the coaches that were around when Holtz was head coach, we had some of the best out there and they helped the players develop. That being said I can easily argue against what you are saying by merely pointing to the list of national champion teams. Please show me one over the past 10-20 years that didn't have solid recruiting classes? Hey maybe Michigan St. breaks that string but if they lose, which I think they will, all of the other 3 programs have had solid recruiting of course led by Bama.
Hey on a positive note with Hayes committing today we fill a huge void on defense considering Jaylon will probably go pro
Maybe some others follow and we can land a solid DE or even another one of the big LB's available.'15 was a good year for break through teams. Even those teams that dominated recruiting had QB issues. That opens the door.
At the start of the season, I mentioned Clemson, but thought they were a year away; like ND.
As it turned out both teams rode QB play to very successful campaigns.
Lacking the 'star' QB, Bama is not invincible.
At the start of the season, I mentioned Clemson, but thought they were a year away; like ND.
As it turned out both teams rode QB play to very successful campaigns.
Lacking the 'star' QB, Bama is not invincible.
Tex Talent trumps coaching all day everyday -- not saying coaching isn't important but there are great coaches all over the place at diff levels -- talent separates them every time -- kelly didn't coach Will Fuller how to beat his guy deep as an example .
Talent 65%
Coaching 35%
Sal: it just bad genetics; you have to filter every pidt by his multitude of ID's.
He(they) are such 'bores'. Shame on BK for not shutting that down!
He(they) are such 'bores'. Shame on BK for not shutting that down!
He didn't? You really think this? Speed alone does not allow you to beat your man there is a LOT of technique in that, that must be taught. Lots of fast guys that can't beat coverage.
Is anybody else curious or concerned that we are only taking 3 OL in the class considering we only took 2 last year. I like to look at recruiting in 2 year cycles and that is 5 in 2 years? Maybe that's enough but I would have thought they would go after 4-5 OL this year.
Re-loading O-line in the '17 class. Of our five current 2017 commitments, two are OL. Will take at least four, maybe even five.
Also, Fuller himself said he never knew he had elite speed until BK and staff recruited him and told him he had that potential. He credits the coaching staff for developing him into an elite receiver including developing his speed. Most times you are either fast or you aren't but there are times when speed can be developed and this seems to be one of those cases.
Thanks! I haven't even looked at 2017 yet.
I love me OL and DL. Not to take away anything from CJ or Adams but I think a big part of their success was our OL.
IMO, our OL recruiting the last 5 years is second to none and I'm including Bama. Kelly has killed it on OL.
There's also the matter of not just developing your speed, but knowing how to use it strategically in the game.
I was using the class calculator tool on 247 so a good part of it was guess work. On the composite they are in at 12, Scout and Rivals are the highest rankings we have @ 8. Also we may see a little bump factoring in jumps in already committed players that have occurred as new rankings are coming out.
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This... as I said before, Kelly and the other coaches have done an amazing job at recruiting on the offensive line. You look at the guys who have already left for the NFL, the current crop, and the next recruits in line and it is our strongest position.
That being said I would really love to see Kelly add more running plays to his playbook, especially with Kizer taking snaps under center. When you have a strong O-line, QB (who is big and strong), and solid RB's there is no reason not to take advantage of it in different ways. Plus it makes things easier for Kizer and you know if this happened the play action with our talented TE's would be tough to defend.
Anyway we really need a DE/pass rusher... were there any left that might be interested in ND? I was really hoping for that kid Betiku would hop on board but not sure how that looks.
Betiku isn't leaving Cali from the sounds of it. unfortunately we may be facing him as he's considering usc. I think that Tenn decommit may be our best shot at another DE. he's 6-5 220 or something like that so he needs to add weight, but I think he could be pretty good if you give him a few yrs. Not sure about the Fox kid that's committed to NC, Beal is trying to get him here, we'll see how that plays out.
If he does leave Cali it will be in the Sawgcopter going to college station. USC seems like the best bet there.
That sucks! I really hope we get someone who can be a solid pass rusher or it will be deja vu next season. If we can ever get a solid secondary together, having the combination of a pass rush and good DB's is what causes turnovers and last time I checked we were ranked around very low in that category. I think in terms of turnover margin for all teams ND is like 100
You never got back to me about teams winning a NC without top classes so I found the following information. It kind of goes against your philosophy
The following are the national championship teams from 2001-present and the recruiting classes each program had leading to their titles. Each had at least 1 top 10 class and most had at least a top 5 class. The one notable team was Auburn which still had top 10 classes but a couple top 20 ones as well. I think it goes to show that most teams can get a special QB and they have a shot regardless but of course Auburn had talent around Scam Newton. A couple teams in recent years that were similar are TCU and Oregon which had a great QB but maybe not the best recruiting and won a lot of games, still no championships.
2001 Miami (#2 in 2001, #9 in 2000, #8 in 1999)
2002 Ohio State (#7 in 2002, #4 in 2000, #2 in 1999)
2003 LSU/USC (LSU #1 class in 2003, #4 in 2001 USC #3 in 2003, #14 in 2000, #21 in 2001)
2004 USC (#3 class in 2003, #1 class in 2004)
2005 Texas (#1 class in 2002, #15 class in 2003 with only 18 recruits, which averaged highest star rating in country, #18 class in 2004 -- only signed 15) If Texas had signed 20 players in either of these classes, they would have ranked in the top five. The #1 class in 2002 was simply too large, with over 30 players).
2006 Florida (#2 in 2003, #10 in 2004, #2 in 2006)
2007 LSU (#1 in 2003, #1 in 2004, #7 in 2006, #4 in 2007)
2008 Florida (#2 in 2006, #1 in 2007, #3 in 2008)
2009 Alabama (#10 in 2007, #1 in 2008, #1 in 2009)
2010 Auburn (#10 in 2006, #7 in 2007, #4 in 2010) Auburn was #20 in 2008 and #19 in 2009
2011 Alabama (#1 in 2008, #1 in 2009, #5 in 2010, #1 in 2011)
2012 Alabama (#1 in 2009, #5 in 2010, #1 in 2011, #1 in 2012)
2013 Florida State (#7 in 2009, #10 in 2010, #2 in 2011, #6 in 2012, #10 in 2013)
2014 Ohio State (#11 in 2011, #4 in 2012, #2 in 2013, #3 in 2014)
100% disagree. I nor anyone on here can put a true percentage on talent and coaching. But there is a reason that the highest paid public employee in a LOT of states is the head coach of the college football team.
for perspective, the bama team we lost to in the Nat'l championship game was the product of landing the #1 class 3 out of 4 years.
I think we have a shot with Kelley . Good weekend for him to visit. The tea leaves tell me we have a fighter ' s chance here . He doesn't like the kid is the type to just take a free trip. Evidently he's bringing both his mom and aunt on visit with him. One of them is paying for trip. That wouldn't happen if there wasn't a legit level of interest. Our shot with him is being understated by most. Actions speak louder than words . Long shot but a decent shot imo.
