I don’t understand the Phil apologist’s

[Zorich 88]

Phil was given a fair chance to win the starting job.

He obviously could not beat Book out.

How did he get a fair shake?

As I listed in another thread:

1. He has everyday in practice to show what he has.

2. Kelly gave him a full ride scholarship to one of the greatest universities in the world.

3. When I seen him in person at 2 different practices this past spring and summer, he looked like a good not great legit D1 QB. No way was he ready to start.

 

[NotreDame du Lac]

Because everyone thinks they know more than the coaching staff. There’s always a conspiracy. Some think a kids HS star ranking somehow carries over when you enroll in college. They just can’t let it go. If Book was in HS right now he’d be a 6 star if that makes them happier!? There’s a lot of fluff in scouting. Dayne Crist was even better than Phil in HS. We all know how good he was under Weis, Kelly and Weis.

 

[NDAFArly]

So how can I be both a BK & Phil apologist?

People aren’t saying he should start. People are saying he was not given the normal reps a backup gets & for some weird reason was not given game reps, even during blowouts.
The OC/position coach decide who goes in the game. Long/Rees didn’t seem to ever give Phil (or any backups) reps in blowouts.

 

[Golson5]

He had one of the worst throwing exhibitions I have ever seen in my life in the spring game. He literally couldn't throw. It was horrendous

 

[IrishInOntario]

I'm not a Phil apologist... I'm annoyed that in 10+ years at Notre Dame, Brian Kelly's two best QB's have been Deshone Kizer and Ian Book.

In that same time frame Alabama produced...

AJ McCarron
Jalen Hurts
Tu'a Tagavailoa

In that same time frame Clemson produced...

Tahj Boyd
DeShaun Watson
Trevor Lawrence

In that same time frame Oklahoma produced...

Baker Mayfield
Kyler Murray
Jalen Hurts (half credit)

In that same time frame Oregon produced...

Darron Thomas
Marcus Mariota
Justin Herbert

In that same time frame Ohio State produced...

Braxton Miller
JT Barrett
Dwayne Haskins
Justin Fields

My issue isn't Phil sitting behind Ian. I'll cheer for the best guy ND can field. My issue is that while the "big boy" programs have produced multiple award winning, big time difference making, Heisman contending / winning QB's, Kelly's guys continue to come up short.

 

[NDinNJ]

Because everyone thinks they know more than the coaching staff. There’s always a conspiracy. Some think a kids HS star ranking somehow carries over when you enroll in college. They just can’t let it go. If Book was in HS right now he’d be a 6 star if that makes them happier!? There’s a lot of fluff in scouting. Dayne Crist was even better than Phil in HS. We all know how good he was under Weis, Kelly and Weis.

You discount HS rankings and performance, but the same individuals on here are going bonkers over Buchner and Pyne. Meanwhile PJ outperformed both of them in HS.

 

[shooter1977]

He had one of the worst throwing exhibitions I have ever seen in my life in the spring game. He literally couldn't throw. It was horrendous

Kizer looked worse than the walk-on in the 2015 spring game. Some QBs are just gamers and play their best in big games.

Phil had the potential to be a game-changer but now we’re looking at game-managers for at least the next 2-3 years. Wish he stuck it out for one more season.

 

[lyonhawk]

You discount HS rankings and performance, but the same individuals on here are going bonkers over Buchner and Pyne. Meanwhile PJ outperformed both of them in HS.

You may wanna double check Buchner’s stats and then compare them to Phil’s junior stats. Or Buchner’s stats to Phil’s senior stats for that matter.

 

[Golson5]

You discount HS rankings and performance, but the same individuals on here are going bonkers over Buchner and Pyne. Meanwhile PJ outperformed both of them in HS.

How has PJ out performed Buchner in high school? I dont think many are going bonkers over Pyne. I think most can see that Buchner is the most talented of all of them. Watch the tape.

 

[IrishInOntario]

You may wanna double check Buchner’s stats and then compare them to Phil’s junior stats. Or Buchner’s stats to Phil’s senior stats for that matter.

Love Buchner, but his league is an absolute joke compared to what Phil faced. Buchner plays in an awful California league.

 

[NDIRISH53]

You discount HS rankings and performance, but the same individuals on here are going bonkers over Buchner and Pyne. Meanwhile PJ outperformed both of them in HS.

I think Buchner looks like a much more polished passer and quarterback with the same high potential as Phil had.

Phil of course had crazy high potential coming out of high school but the “bust” potential was very high as well. Buchner does not have that high bust potential

 

[88ND]

Phil was given a fair chance to win the starting job.

He obviously could not beat Book out.

How did he get a fair shake?

As I listed in another thread:

1. He has everyday in practice to show what he has.

2. Kelly gave him a full ride scholarship to one of the greatest universities in the world.

3. When I seen him in person at 2 different practices this past spring and summer, he looked like a good not great legit D1 QB. No way was he ready to start.

The same fair shot Book got until Wimbush had 17 starts until BK realized he was inaccurate???

Or the fair shot of Book spelling a Wimbush in a bowl game against LSU and we actually moved the ball, scored and won.

That still wasn't enough to start Book for 3 more games after that.


P
L
E
A
S
E

DO NOT act like Brian Kelly has even one ounce of a good plan with the QB position.

He has absolutely positively no damn idea what the hell he's doing with the QB.

How anyone can think otherwise really is as oblivious as Kelly himself.

This subject is a complete joke.

Brian Kelly is not a good coach!!!!!

 

[Golson5]

Love Buchner, but his league is an absolute joke compared to what Phil faced. Buchner plays in an awful California league.

Dont watch the opponents. Watch each throw the ball. Hit players down the field with accuracy. Movement in the pocket. Throw on the run. Buchner is more polished and more talented. Better prospect

 

[mva5580]

And I don’t understand why you all lose your **** over something as trivial as football. Such is life.

 

[Golson5]

The same fair shot Book got until Wimbush had 17 starts until BK realized he was inaccurate???

Or the fair shot of Book spelling a Wimbush in a bowl game against LSU and we actually moved the ball, scored and won.

That still wasn't enough to start Book for 3 more games after that.


P
L
E
A
S
E

DO NOT act like Brian Kelly has even one ounce of a good plan with the QB position.

He has absolutely positively no damn idea what the hell he's doing with the QB.

How anyone can think otherwise really is as oblivious as Kelly himself.

This subject is a complete joke.

Brian Kelly is not a good coach!!!!!

Youre right. Hes a very good coach. Top 15 in the country

 

[IrishInOntario]

Dont watch the opponents. Watch each throw the ball. Hit players down the field with accuracy. Movement in the pocket. Throw on the run. Buchner is more polished and more talented. Better prospect

I'm well aware of his talent level. I called him a more natural passer than Justin Fields. I'm suggesting that people be careful about citing numbers without factoring in competition. Blake Barnett put up video game numbers in lower league California football as well. He's not playing Mater Dei, Serra, Servite, Bosco, etc, etc.

 

[88ND]

Youre right. Hes a very good coach. Top 15 in the country

Keep celebrating mediocre brotha...it's your prerogative.

Brian Kelly....whatever good he does with other things he's so bad with the QB position it brings him right back to an average or below level.

He's not a "good" coach.

QB......

over the last decade in South Bend....

Has been.....

A roller coaster ride of disastrous proportions.


Very much like that movie Final Destination. One can actually visualize the upcoming disastrous QB play and guess what...that's exactly what happens.

 

[NDinNJ]

I think Buchner looks like a much more polished passer and quarterback with the same high potential as Phil had.

Phil of course had crazy high potential coming out of high school but the “bust” potential was very high as well. Buchner does not have that high bust potential

During the last 10 years I’ve watched this board rave about every single QB coming out of HS, from Hendrix, Golson, Kiel, Zaire, Kizer, Wimbush, PJ, etc. and it’s been the same old story. I find it just hard to believe that not one of them was able to live up to their expectations. This failure falls squarely on BK.

 

[IrishInOntario]

During the last 10 years I’ve watched this board rave about every single QB coming out of HS, from Hendrix, Golson, Kiel, Zaire, Kizer, Wimbush, PJ, etc. and it’s been the same old story. I find it just hard to believe that not one of them was able to live up to their expectations. This failure falls squarely on BK.

Absolutely correct. The fact that all the other "major players" have developed multiple elite QBs, while Kelly has failed to develop even one in his decade at Notre Dame, is strictly on him...

Especially when you consider that his QB's played behind 3/5 of the NFL All Pro OL group this year, among other 1st and 2nd round picks... And had guys like Michael Floyd, Tyler Eifert, Will Fuller, Chase Claypool and Cole Kmet to throw the ball to over the years.

 

[Golson5]

During the last 10 years I’ve watched this board rave about every single QB coming out of HS, from Hendrix, Golson, Kiel, Zaire, Kizer, Wimbush, PJ, etc. and it’s been the same old story. I find it just hard to believe that not one of them was able to live up to their expectations. This failure falls squarely on BK.

Stop forming your opinions from reading people on the board. Watch the film or go by people who do it for a living. This is a fan board. Every commit we get people think they are the next Heisman. Thats on you

 

[d1042]

Phil was given a fair chance to win the starting job.

He obviously could not beat Book out.

How did he get a fair shake?

As I listed in another thread:

1. He has everyday in practice to show what he has.

2. Kelly gave him a full ride scholarship to one of the greatest universities in the world.

3. When I seen him in person at 2 different practices this past spring and summer, he looked like a good not great legit D1 QB. No way was he ready to start.

sometimes, you can be pretty simplistic in your assessments; as is the case in this case.

 

[NDIRISH53]

During the last 10 years I’ve watched this board rave about every single QB coming out of HS, from Hendrix, Golson, Kiel, Zaire, Kizer, Wimbush, PJ, etc. and it’s been the same old story. I find it just hard to believe that not one of them was able to live up to their expectations. This failure falls squarely on BK.

That is an undeniable fact. Always the next kid coming who will be the messiah

 

[echowaker]

During the last 10 years I’ve watched this board rave about every single QB coming out of HS, from Hendrix, Golson, Kiel, Zaire, Kizer, Wimbush, PJ, etc. and it’s been the same old story. I find it just hard to believe that not one of them was able to live up to their expectations. This failure falls squarely on BK.

Hendrix ? Don't recall any raving there. Kiel flat out quit. Kizer was a 2nd round pick. Golson transferred. Would love to have seen what Zaire could have accomplished had he not been injured. Wimbush didn't pan out. PJ transferring. mixed bag if you ask me. Thought Wimbush would get better and never did. Didn't pan out at UCF either.

 

[SIhoosier26]

And I don’t understand why you all lose your **** over something as trivial as football. Such is life.

Wrong board?

 

[melstew]

I am not plugged in as much as all, but I do get College Football Fever every August and consume practice video. I also check in on the Spring game. Every thing I saw, which wasn’t much, indicate Brendon Clark was more polished. I’d like to think BK had a good talk with Phil, and all will benefit from the decision.

 

[d1042]

I am not plugged in as much as all, but I do get College Football Fever every August and consume practice video. I also check in on the Spring game. Every thing I saw, which wasn’t much, indicate Brendon Clark was more polished. I’d like to think BK had a good talk with Phil, and all will benefit from the decision.

yep. It probably was a bad union from the start. BK is not the QB whisperer and PJ needs a-bit of technique refinement. The absence of a true QB experienced coach really made it a fait accompli.

 

[echowaker]

yep. It probably was a bad union from the start. BK is not the QB whisperer and PJ needs a-bit of technique refinement. The absence of a true QB experienced coach really made it a fait accompli.

what qb coach would have been more familiar with the ND offense ?

 

[lyonhawk]

Hendrix ? Don't recall any raving there. Kiel flat out quit. Kizer was a 2nd round pick. Golson transferred. Would love to have seen what Zaire could have accomplished had he not been injured. Wimbush didn't pan out. PJ transferring. mixed bag if you ask me. Thought Wimbush would get better and never did. Didn't pan out at UCF either.

People also forget Wimbush got injured too. TD run against I believe NC St. Hurt his back/ribs. Ian got the start the next week against UNC and Wimbush never really looked the same once he came back, especially running which was his primary strength.

 

[d1042]

what qb coach would have been more familiar with the ND offense ?

it is about that player’s individual development: strength and weaknesses.
PJ needed a top coach to work with. So, you are saying that PJ, flawed on arrival, gets discarded as a bad fit? BK should never have recruited PJ, and PJ definitely chose the wrong football team!

 

[IrishInOntario]

I am not plugged in as much as all, but I do get College Football Fever every August and consume practice video. I also check in on the Spring game. Every thing I saw, which wasn’t much, indicate Brendon Clark was more polished. I’d like to think BK had a good talk with Phil, and all will benefit from the decision.

I actually like Brendon Clark. He's a lot like Ian Book, with a slightly bigger frame and arm. Excited to see him play in the spring game.

 

[irish4life888]

Phil was given a fair chance to win the starting job.

He obviously could not beat Book out.

How did he get a fair shake?

As I listed in another thread:

1. He has everyday in practice to show what he has.

2. Kelly gave him a full ride scholarship to one of the greatest universities in the world.

3. When I seen him in person at 2 different practices this past spring and summer, he looked like a good not great legit D1 QB. No way was he ready to start.

So how did you get to see him in practices? Generally they are closed to the public. Are you part of the press or a coach?

 

[d1042]

ironically the fav QB, and only real QB with lengthy success at BK’s ND, is the guy recruited by Sanford. Sanford, who get skewered by Pennick, a BK worshipper, at every opportunity. LMAO-SMH!

 

[tbonesays]

Hendrix ? Don't recall any raving there. .

I did. on his HS tape Hendrix could throw on the run and strike a WR in stride. A few years later Hendrix comes into the USC game and cannot complete a screen with both his feet planted. And that proved to be part of a long trend of Kelly's qbs fading or outright failing.

 

[d1042]

I did. on his HS tape Hendrix could throw on the run and strike a WR in stride. A few years later Hendrix comes into the USC game and cannot complete a screen with both his feet planted. And that proved to be part of a long trend of Kelly's qbs fading or outright failing.

time after time! and yet “ND” still manages to bring in some talented QB’s!
are they paying attention? Or is it the degree emphasized-over football.
I wonder what Buchner is thinking and what his advisors are saying?

 

[Golson5]

time after time! and yet “ND” still manages to bring in some talented QB’s!
are they paying attention? Or is it the degree emphasized-over football.
I wonder what Buchner is thinking and what his advisors are saying?

Probably thinking look how they made a 3 star with average talent into a 34 and 6 guy. Hes probably thinking imagine what they can do with someone of his caliber of talent. Their probably thinking they cant wait til he enrolls early at ND to compete for the starting QB position of a team that will have won 10 plus games in 4 straight seasons.

 

[The Oyster Guy]

The same fair shot Book got until Wimbush had 17 starts until BK realized he was inaccurate???

Or the fair shot of Book spelling a Wimbush in a bowl game against LSU and we actually moved the ball, scored and won.

That still wasn't enough to start Book for 3 more games after that.


P
L
E
A
S
E

DO NOT act like Brian Kelly has even one ounce of a good plan with the QB position.

He has absolutely positively no damn idea what the hell he's doing with the QB.

How anyone can think otherwise really is as oblivious as Kelly himself.

This subject is a complete joke.

Brian Kelly is not a good coach!!!!!

So, the jury is still out for you re: Kelly????

 

[tbonesays]

time after time! and yet “ND” still manages to bring in some talented QB’s!
are they paying attention? Or is it the degree emphasized-over football.
I wonder what Buchner is thinking and what his advisors are saying?

Was Buchner the tippy top of must-have QBs or a quality 4*? Generally the latter will be BK's recruiting ceiling outside of the positions at which ND traditionally excels.

 

[Golson5]

Was Buchner the tippy top of must-have QBs or a quality 4*? Generally the latter will be BK's recruiting ceiling outside of the positions at which ND traditionally excels.

Hes an elite prospect that will likely end up a 5 star

 

[BGI User 1596]

Hes an elite prospect that will likely end up a 5 star

Just like PJ was.

 

[d1042]

Was Buchner the tippy top of must-have QBs or a quality 4*? Generally the latter will be BK's recruiting ceiling outside of the positions at which ND traditionally excels.

We need to see more of Buchner because his competition is not so great.
It is hard to gauge him.

Just like PJ was.

Everyone and everybody was aware of PJ’s need for a complete overhaul of his mechanics. ND just did not have the coaches in place to help him. He has to move on and hopefully find such a coaching staff that can coach him up.
There is no Sanford- no Long - no OC, a trainee QB coach; what the heck was he supposed to do?