How much will being a 5th seed at best

[4-4-3]

Funny story but Frenso State did better against SC than our green jerseys in 2005. If they had only 4 turnovers then perhaps they knock SC out of the BCSCG.



omg it ate another one of my posts.

Any 10 win team can get into the playoffs. Another program gains crowds and a prime time tv slot by scheduling ND, same as it ever was.

I mentioned SMU because it is past time ND started associating with schools that match its profile and stop pretending about Stanford.

That any 10 win team can make it to the playoffs may or may NOT prove true. In the future, all 10 win teams may not be created equal. Teams with tougher in-conference schedules that notch 10 wins may have more attractive resumes from a QUALITY WIN PERSPECTIVE than an ND team that's competing against lesser opponents, having been frozen out by conference teams that REAP NO BENEFIT from playing it.

Plus, if ND winds up playing lesser competition than what in-conference teams face, then why would it EVEN RATE equal consideration?

Is there enough frontline competition in the ACC to offset the SEC or Big Ten freezing out ND? Maybe, maybe not. But then, the better ACC teams aren't likely to be happy playing ND either, although they MUST at least until ND's contract is up, assuming the ACC's members don't move to terminate it, if under its terms and conditions, they can.

Again, all of these uncertainties and gumby-like contortions DISAPPEAR COMPLETELY the moment ND joins a conference. And at some point, I'd argue, it will happen.

 

[4-4-3]

Playing Notre Dame has proven to be a revenue enhancer for almost every school that schedules Notre Dame on their home field.

Hence, the need for Notre Dame to consistently remain in the top 10

Unfortunately, it’s all about the money

The money has CHANGED EVERYTHING. The entire landscape. The basis of the game as both regional and intersectional rivalries.

It's all CONFERENCES and TABLES now.

And I don't see a LONG-LIVED place for any team -- even ND -- outside of that framework.

 

[Quix0te]

Thanks for posting this, and I hope MANY MEMBERS here watch it.

But, to be honest, I think it's more than just Colin Cowherd and a few of us here WHO ARE STARTING TO GET THIS.

If tradition isn't its ACTUAL MEAL TICKET, MONEY TRUMPS IT every time. Because out of any realignment of ANYTHING, NEW TRADITIONS EMERGE. As, basically, LIFE GOES ON.

And it takes only a GENERATION AND A HALF for that to happen. The ND of Rockne and Leahy -- THE ALMOST ALL-DOMINANT ND -- died with my father. The ND of Ara and Holtz will DIE WITH ME. And I would venture that ND, the CONFERENCE MEMEBER, lies in the not too distant future.

Because in the meantime, USC'S DILEMMA is not just limited to USC. If a team is part of the SEC or Big Ten, what point is there in playing ND. You already have YOUR HANDS FULL, even as playing ND gets you NOTHING.

IT'S A RISK NOT WORTH TAKING.

4-4-3, I believe that your vision is spot on. As you have suggested, we not talking about ND falling on its sword for indenpence. ND refused to play bowl games until it did. ND was all-boys until it wasn't. And there was always the "little Catholic school against the Big Boys" image.

Football independence has served ND very, very well. But the virtual extinction of all other indepentents and conference consolidation has tended to box ND into a corner.

 

[4-4-3]

4-4-3, I believe that your vision is spot on. As you have suggested, we not talking about ND falling on its sword for indenpence. ND refused to play bowl games until it did. ND was all-boys until it wasn't. And there was always the "little Catholic school against the Big Boys" image.

Football independence has served ND very, very well. But the virtual extinction of all other indepentents and conference consolidation has tended to box ND into a corner.

I think from ND’s evolving place in this, you’ve pretty much NAILED IT. I mean, who can dispute THOSE POINTS?

But the logic works similarly as for the game itself. Assuming that all aspects of American life that could have an impact on CFB REMAIN UNCHANGED --

Will it return to just a mass of individual teams? NO.

Will conferences disband as more schools return to independence? NO.

Will purely regional conferences reemerge? NO.

Will bowl games be as pivotal – or even as glamorous -- as they once were? NO.

Will the playoff system be abandoned in favor of a return to MYTHICAL NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS? NO.

Against this TREND LINE/TIDAL WAVE, how much longer will ND choose to reenact THE CHARGE OF THE LIGHT BRIGADE and remain independent?

TBD.

 

[Golson5]

4-4-3, I believe that your vision is spot on. As you have suggested, we not talking about ND falling on its sword for indenpence. ND refused to play bowl games until it did. ND was all-boys until it wasn't. And there was always the "little Catholic school against the Big Boys" image.

Football independence has served ND very, very well. But the virtual extinction of all other indepentents and conference consolidation has tended to box ND into a corner.

No it hasn't

 

[4-4-3]

We'll keep playing ACC teams under the current arrangements; maybe we could increase the number from 5 to 6, if we have any issues scheduling. But I doubt we'd have trouble finding opponents from the Big Ten. If USC were to grant Riley's wishes and drop the annual ND game, I'm sure some other Big Ten teams would love to play us instead. Fans still want to see big games during the regular season. Teams like Michigan State, Iowa or Wisconsin would love to play us more often.

Although one issue with the Big Ten is that rule they have that they only schedule OOC games in September. So the number of games we could play versus them will always be limited by that.

I take your point, but it may not be so compelling over time.

A LESSER Big Ten team may wish to play ND, but is that really a scheduling win? Or just another lesser opponent? Does it boost ND's strength of schedule from a playoff qualification perspective?

And from a fan-base perspective, does it qualify as a MARQUEE game? Anyone chomping at the bit for ND to play Indiana or Rutgers? Unless those teams improve as programs, where exactly is the draw?

Whereas BIG TEN teams that are likely contenders would if, LOGIC SERVES, most likely follow USC's reasoning, assuming they actually choose REASON over SENTIMENT -- if not outright SENTIMENTALITY -- themselves. And if I were Riley, I'd, permission granted, do so in a HEARTBEAT.

USC is in the Big Ten now. It's BY DEFINITION a new era. That's where their bread is henceforth buttered -- not by playing ND. Frankly, given what's happening, playing ND is LITERALLY old-school.

Turning to ND, by remaining independent, it must make it to the CENTER by operating from the PERIPHERY. That requires a LOT OF FANCY FOOTWORK. Me, I can't see that it's worth it. ND has a GREAT PROGRAM. Join a conference and move to the CENTER.

Go right to the HEART OF THE ACTION.

Times have changed. ND needs to accept that. And if it does, its fans will go along. What choice will they have? And in the end won't be an issue. It will be FINE.

 

[tbonesays]

That any 10 win team can make it to the playoffs may or may NOT prove true. In the future, all 10 win teams may not be created equal. Teams with tougher in-conference schedules that notch 10 wins may have more attractive resumes from a QUALITY WIN PERSPECTIVE than an ND team that's competing against lesser opponents, having been frozen out by conference teams that REAP NO BENEFIT from playing it.

Plus, if ND winds up playing lesser competition than what in-conference teams face, then why would it EVEN RATE equal consideration?

Is there enough frontline competition in the ACC to offset the SEC or Big Ten freezing out ND? Maybe, maybe not. But then, the better ACC teams aren't likely to be happy playing ND either, although they MUST at least until ND's contract is up, assuming the ACC's members don't move to terminate it, if under its terms and conditions, they can.

Again, all of these uncertainties and gumby-like contortions DISAPPEAR COMPLETELY the moment ND joins a conference. And at some point, I'd argue, it will happen.

Your first paragraph reinforces my point. It is more necessary to make the regular season schedule entertaining now that it is much less important. A loss merely adjusts your playoff equity, maybe, so they need big names to get people to come.

No it hasn't

I wish people would show one piece of evidence to back up their suppositions.

 

[mbd11]

I take your point, but it may not be so compelling over time.

A LESSER Big Ten team may wish to play ND, but is that really a scheduling win? Or just another lesser opponent? Does it boost ND's strength of schedule from a playoff qualification perspective?

And from a fan-base perspective, does it qualify as a MARQUEE game? Anyone chomping at the bit for ND to play Indiana or Rutgers? Unless those teams improve as programs, where exactly is the draw?

Whereas BIG TEN teams that are likely contenders would if, LOGIC SERVES, most likely follow USC's reasoning, assuming they actually choose REASON over SENTIMENT -- if not outright SENTIMENTALITY -- themselves. And if I were Riley, I'd, permission granted, do so in a HEARTBEAT.

USC is in the Big Ten now. It's BY DEFINITION a new era. That's where their bread is henceforth buttered -- not by playing ND. Frankly, given what's happening, playing ND is LITERALLY old-school.

Turning to ND, by remaining independent, it must make it to the CENTER by operating from the PERIPHERY. That requires a LOT OF FANCY FOOTWORK. Me, I can't see that it's worth it. ND has a GREAT PROGRAM. Join a conference and move to the CENTER.

Go right to the HEART OF THE ACTION.

Times have changed. ND needs to accept that. And if it does, its fans will go along. What choice will they have? And in the end won't be an issue. It will be FINE.

Well, we'll see what happens for 2027 and beyond. USC's on the schedule for '25 and '26, and our schedule's looking very solid in both of those years. This year was the uncharacteristically weaker year, partially due to Miami (Fl) requesting to postpone and getting replaced by Army.

 

[4-4-3]

Well, we'll see what happens for 2027 and beyond. USC's on the schedule for '25 and '26, and our schedule's looking very solid in both of those years. This year was the uncharacteristically weaker year, partially due to Miami (Fl) requesting to postpone and getting replaced by Army.

Yes, we will see and it will take some time. And I agree with you regarding ND's schedule.

What I'll be watching in the meantime is how West Coast teams fare playing in the Midwest, East and South. I've never fully accepted the idea that COLLAPSING THE PAC-10 in favor of an expanded Big Ten and somewhat augmented ACC makes LONG-RANGE SENSE.

It calls for expending a lot of BTU's both on the part of transport systems and players. So, I just don't know if it's practical should we need at some point as a society to become both more cost conscious and more energy conscious.

Everything is great when oil trades between $60 and $80 a barrel, but if it dips below $60, it doesn't cover exploration costs, while if it rises above $80 for a sustained period, consumers start howling. Anything over $100, and we're in recession territory.

What I would like to see is a REVIVED PAC 10 that draws on teams west of the Rockies, a more tradtional, HEARTLAND-ORIENTED BIG TEN with ND in it, a FORTIFIED ACC made up of teams east of Appalachia and what I would simply call a SOUTHERN CONFERENCE that includes all current members of the SEC as well as all former members of the old Southwest Conference (SWC.)

Basically a NORTH, SOUTH, EAST, WEST geogrpahical distribution with the northern portion composed of teams from both the Big Ten and ACC, rather than a specific set of teams comprising a separate northern confernce.

While I DEFINITELY SUPPORT CONFERENCES, what we have today striks me as an UNSUSTAINABLE HODGEPODGE.

But again, we'll see as MONEY WILL DRIVE THIS, rather than what anyone else may consider more SENSIBLE and/or EFFICIENT.

 

[Quix0te]

And I agree with you regarding ND's schedule - "very solid" in '25 and '26

Sorry but ND's '25 and '26 schedules are not "very solid." Those schedules aren't as weak as the '24 schedule but they are not even close to being as tough as the typical SEC or Big Ten teams are facing. Using the 2024 Preseason Coahes Poll as the metric:

In 2025 ND plays no top ten teams and three in the top 25: #19 Miami, #22 NC State and #23 USC.

In 2026 ND plays one top ten team, #10 FSU and two others in the top 25: #19 Miami and #23 USC.

Dawgs, Bucks, Ducks top coaches' preseason poll

Georgia opens the college football season at No. 1 in the coaches' poll, followed by Ohio State, Oregon, Texas and Alabama. The SEC has nine teams in the top 25.

www.espn.com

 

[Golson5]

Sorry but ND's '25 and '26 schedules are not "very solid." Those schedules aren't as weak as the '24 schedule but they are not even close to being as tough as the typical SEC or Big Ten teams are facing. Using the 2024 Preseason Coahes Poll as the metric:

In 2025 ND plays no top ten teams and three in the top 25: #19 Miami, #22 NC State and #23 USC.

In 2026 ND plays one top ten team, #10 FSU and two others in the top 25: #19 Miami and #23 USC.

Dawgs, Bucks, Ducks top coaches' preseason poll

Georgia opens the college football season at No. 1 in the coaches' poll, followed by Ohio State, Oregon, Texas and Alabama. The SEC has nine teams in the top 25.

www.espn.com

How do you know the 25 and 26 ranking of teams before the 24 season is even played?

Interesting

 

[Quix0te]

How do you know the 25 and 26 ranking of teams before the 24 season is even played?

ND's schedule for those years would indeed be solid prior to the Great Realignment of 2024. The schedules of all Big Ten and SEC teams will be much tougher in the future simply because both conferences added heavyweight brands. That's exactly why USC wants out of its annual rivalry with ND. Their plate is plenty full without playing ND.

Another factor is the TV money. FSU is squealing to get out of the ACC because they know the much larger payouts that the Big Ten/SEC will be getting is going to further the chasm between the ACC and the P2. Thus I do indeed know that the SEC and Big XII will be falling further and further behind the Big Ten and the SEC. That's the New World Order.

 

[Golson5]

ND's schedule for those years would indeed be solid prior to the Great Realignment of 2024. The schedules of all Big Ten and SEC teams will be much tougher in the future simply because both conferences added heavyweight brands. That's exactly why USC wants out of its annual rivalry with ND. Their plate is plenty full without playing ND.

Another factor is the TV money. FSU is squealing to get out of the ACC because they know the much larger payouts that the Big Ten/SEC will be getting is going to further the chasm between the ACC and the P2. Thus I do indeed know that the SEC and Big XII will be falling further and further behind the Big Ten and the SEC. That's the New World Order.

Oh so you don't know what the rankings will be one and two years from now

Got it. Thank you

Question though, how many NCs has the ACC won compared to the Big in the Playoff era?

 

[mbd11]

Sorry but ND's '25 and '26 schedules are not "very solid." Those schedules aren't as weak as the '24 schedule but they are not even close to being as tough as the typical SEC or Big Ten teams are facing. Using the 2024 Preseason Coahes Poll as the metric:

In 2025 ND plays no top ten teams and three in the top 25: #19 Miami, #22 NC State and #23 USC.

In 2026 ND plays one top ten team, #10 FSU and two others in the top 25: #19 Miami and #23 USC.

Dawgs, Bucks, Ducks top coaches' preseason poll

Georgia opens the college football season at No. 1 in the coaches' poll, followed by Ohio State, Oregon, Texas and Alabama. The SEC has nine teams in the top 25.

www.espn.com

Texas A&M is #20 in the coaches' poll this year. And we play them again next year. Four ranked teams is about as many as most Big Ten teams have.

Right now we have 9 P4 teams, Boise State and Navy, with one more to add. That's a respectable schedule IMO.

 

[BGI User 756]

Sorry but ND's '25 and '26 schedules are not "very solid." Those schedules aren't as weak as the '24 schedule but they are not even close to being as tough as the typical SEC or Big Ten teams are facing. Using the 2024 Preseason Coahes Poll as the metric:

In 2025 ND plays no top ten teams and three in the top 25: #19 Miami, #22 NC State and #23 USC.

In 2026 ND plays one top ten team, #10 FSU and two others in the top 25: #19 Miami and #23 USC.

Dawgs, Bucks, Ducks top coaches' preseason poll

Georgia opens the college football season at No. 1 in the coaches' poll, followed by Ohio State, Oregon, Texas and Alabama. The SEC has nine teams in the top 25.

www.espn.com

The irony of any Little10 team calling out schedules of others….

 

[Quix0te]

Oh so you don't know what the rankings will be one and two years from now

Here's the circular logic about that. You guys believe you DO know enough about "what the rankings will be one and two years from now" to proclaim that ND's 25-26 schedules sre "very solid" but you think I DO NOT know enough about "what the rankings will be one and two years from now" to proclaim that ND's 25-26 schedules are "weak."

 

[Quix0te]

Texas A&M is #20 in the coaches' poll this year. And we play them again next year. Four ranked teams is about as many as most Big Ten teams have.

OK, I'll give you A&M at #20. Purdue plays #2 Ohio State, #3 Oregon, #7 ND and #9 Penn State. Do you understand the difference?

 

[Golson5]

Here's the circular logic about that. You guys believe you DO know enough about "what the rankings will be one and two years from now" to proclaim that ND's 25-26 schedules sre "very solid" but you think I DO NOT know enough about "what the rankings will be one and two years from now" to proclaim that ND's 25-26 schedules are "weak."

I didn't say anything about the rankings so that was a weak response from you

Also, did you answer my question? How many NCs did the ACC win during the Playoff era compared to the Big?

 

[Quix0te]

I didn't say anything about the rankings so that was a weak response from you

Scroll up four posts. Golson5: "Oh so you don't know what the rankings will be one and two years from now"

 

[Golson5]

Scroll up four posts. Golson5: "Oh so you don't know what the rankings will be one and two years from now"

Yeah keep looking. When did I say it was solid, good or bad.....so when you responded that to me it was weak

Again, how many NCs ACC vs Big in the Playoff era ?

 

[sjb75]

Yeah keep looking. When did I say it was solid, good or bad.....so when you responded that to me it was weak

Again, how many NCs ACC vs Big in the Playoff era ?

You indeed enjoy directly responding to various trolls on this site.

 

[Golson5]

You indeed enjoy directly responding to various trolls on this site.

You have responded to him more than me....

 

[sjb75]

You have responded to him more than me....

I'd have to look.

I don't think so, but maybe.

Chaseball you definitely have me beat.

 

[mbd11]

OK, I'll give you A&M at #20. Purdue plays #2 Ohio State, #3 Oregon, #7 ND and #9 Penn State. Do you understand the difference?

Not all conference schedules are the same. Rutgers plays no currently-ranked teams this year.

 

[Quix0te]

Not all conference schedules are the same. Rutgers plays no currently-ranked teams this year.

Rutgers whupped Miami (FL) in last year's Pinstripe Bowl and plays USC and #26 Washington. And yes, you did cherry-pick the weakest schedule among the 18 Big Ten teams.

 

[4-4-3]

Sorry but ND's '25 and '26 schedules are not "very solid." Those schedules aren't as weak as the '24 schedule but they are not even close to being as tough as the typical SEC or Big Ten teams are facing. Using the 2024 Preseason Coahes Poll as the metric:

In 2025 ND plays no top ten teams and three in the top 25: #19 Miami, #22 NC State and #23 USC.

In 2026 ND plays one top ten team, #10 FSU and two others in the top 25: #19 Miami and #23 USC.

Dawgs, Bucks, Ducks top coaches' preseason poll

Georgia opens the college football season at No. 1 in the coaches' poll, followed by Ohio State, Oregon, Texas and Alabama. The SEC has nine teams in the top 25.

www.espn.com

Remains to be seen what the definition of "solid" turns out to be. And a lot depends on how ND matches up.

My comment was made in comparison to this year's unusually weak schedule. And by solid, I didn't necessarily mean TOP-FLIGHT.

But there's no question that if conferences keep adding stronger teams which in turn then don't play ND, we all can see where this is headed.

 

[mbd11]

Rutgers whupped Miami (FL) in last year's Pinstripe Bowl and plays USC and #26 Washington. And yes, you did cherry-pick the weakest schedule among the 18 Big Ten teams.

That's right, USC's #23 in the Coaches' Poll. Must've been looking at the wrong poll. So Rutgers has one ranked team on the schedule this year, and we have 3 currently. Penn State currently has 2.

As for Washington, I doubt they're that good this year. They lost most of their team and their coach. Rutgers' 2nd-toughest game is probably their road game at #28 Virginia Tech.

 

[geisha]

We will have to be ranked 3rd or better to get the 5th seed. The ACC and Big12 champs get automatic bids and will more than likely be ranked higher than the top 3 which would push ND down 2 spots. Taking the coaches poll ND is ranked 7th but would actually get the 9th seed playing at Ole Miss because FSU and UTAH both ranked higher than ND would take to automatic qualifying bid with a bye

 

[Quix0te]

Remains to be seen what the definition of "solid" turns out to be. And a lot depends on how ND matches up.

My comment was made in comparison to this year's unusually weak schedule. And by solid, I didn't necessarily mean TOP-FLIGHT.

But there's no question that if conferences keep adding stronger teams which in turn then don't play ND, we all can see where this is headed.

Yup, that was the point I was trying to make, although some posters here regard any comment other than a full-throated "Go Irish" as an insult. This scenario will get even worse for ND if FSU and/or Clemson and/or Miami are successful in leaving the ACC. Then you guys will be stuck with five ACC games each year with zero top brands.

On the other hand, if FSU/Clemson/Miami are forced to stay in the ACC, their programs will erode in comparison to the Big Ten and SEC simply because their lower TV payouts will eventually translate into less NIL, lower "salaries" (if that happens), more good players going into the portal for Top Dollar programs and lower recruiting budgets.

ND's quasi-independence with the ACC seems like a lose-lose going forward. As I have posted previously, it seems like going back to the Big East in Olympic sports and going truly independent in football is a better option. The hoops are just as good and the travel logistics are much better.

 

[Golson5]

Yup, that was the point I was trying to make, although some posters here regard any comment other than a full-throated "Go Irish" as an insult. This scenario will get even worse for ND if FSU and/or Clemson and/or Miami are successful in leaving the ACC. Then you guys will be stuck with five ACC games each year with zero top brands.

On the other hand, if FSU/Clemson/Miami are forced to stay in the ACC, their programs will erode in comparison to the Big Ten and SEC simply because their lower TV payouts will eventually translate into less NIL, lower "salaries" (if that happens), more good players going into the portal for Top Dollar programs and lower recruiting budgets.

ND's quasi-independence with the ACC seems like a lose-lose going forward. As I have posted previously, it seems like going back to the Big East in Olympic sports and going truly independent in football is a better option. The hoops are just as good and the travel logistics are much better.

No matter what happens in CFB, ND will be just fine

Those ACC programs you mentioned won't erode. They will be perfectly fine

We arent going to be stuck or in any lose lose situation

You want that to be true but it's just not

 

[Quix0te]

Those ACC programs you mentioned won't erode. They will be perfectly fine

Wanna bet?

 

[Golson5]

Wanna bet?

Yeah. If they stay in the ACC, how would you define them eroding?

And again you didn't answer my question 3x, during the Playoff era, who won more NCs, the ACC or Big 10

Answer that first and then we can proceed

 

[sjb75]

No matter what happens in CFB, ND will be just fine

Those ACC programs you mentioned won't erode. They will be perfectly fine

We arent going to be stuck or in any lose lose situation

You want that to be true but it's just not

I went and read what the troll is saying. Good points.

 

[Quix0te]

Yeah. If they stay in the ACC, how would you define them eroding?

Why do you think they are all lawyered up and fighting like Hades to get out of the ACC? FSU and Clemson have publicly proclaimed that they will fall behind the Big Dogs due to disparity in TV revenue. Do you understand that FSU and Clemson have sued the ACC and vice versa? The FSU-ACC suit is in mediation right now, ordered by the judge last week. Do you know any of this? Are you even aware of it? Do you understand it?

 

[Golson5]

Why do you think they are all lawyered up and fighting like Hades to get out of the ACC? FSU and Clemson have publicly proclaimed that they will fall behind the Big Dogs due to disparity in TV revenue. Do you understand that FSU and Clemson have sued the ACC and vice versa? The FSU-ACC suit is in mediation right now, ordered by the judge last week. Do you know this? Do you understand it?

Because they want more money, are you too stupid to realize that? How dumb are you?

They want more money. Like the whole world. Doesn't mean their programs will erode if they stay in the ACC. Only a moron would think that

Let's do BCS and Playoff NCs. So that's the last 25 years of CFB

ACC - 4 National Championships

Big 10 - 3 National Champions

How could this be though? The Big is so great and the ACC sucks, right?

 

[sjb75]

Because they want more money, are you too stupid to realize that? How dumb are you?

They want more money. Like the whole world. Doesn't mean their programs will erode if they stay in the ACC. Only a moron would think that

Let's do BCS and Playoff NCs. So that's the last 25 years of CFB

ACC - 4 National Championships

Big 10 - 3 National Champions

How could this be though? The Big is so great and the ACC sucks, right?

"Never wrestle with a pig..,"

 

[sjb75]

"...you get dirty, and the pig enjoys it."

 

[4-4-3]

Yup, that was the point I was trying to make, although some posters here regard any comment other than a full-throated "Go Irish" as an insult. This scenario will get even worse for ND if FSU and/or Clemson and/or Miami are successful in leaving the ACC. Then you guys will be stuck with five ACC games each year with zero top brands.

On the other hand, if FSU/Clemson/Miami are forced to stay in the ACC, their programs will erode in comparison to the Big Ten and SEC simply because their lower TV payouts will eventually translate into less NIL, lower "salaries" (if that happens), more good players going into the portal for Top Dollar programs and lower recruiting budgets.

ND's quasi-independence with the ACC seems like a lose-lose going forward. As I have posted previously, it seems like going back to the Big East in Olympic sports and going truly independent in football is a better option. The hoops are just as good and the travel logistics are much better.

I agree with your points other than that it would be better for ND to be fully independent.

Yes, LOSE THE ACC as circumstances permit, but join the Big Ten as well. To do otherwise, I’d argue, is for ND to continue to SELECT AGAINST ITSELF as I don’t see how full independence provides any material benefit over the ACC deal. It’s just another form of HAMSTRINGING where ND is still likely to get mostly second-rate airplay – as in a diminishing pool of desirable opponents.

But given how consistently ND has opposed CHANGE, it may take a few years of NARROWING PROSPECTS (and by that, I don’t mean recruits) for it to accept the writing on the wall.

To me, ND spends a lot of time creating the FALSE IMPRESSION that it’s moving forward with the times when in fact it’s fighting a REARGUARD action. If ND were the Wehrmacht in WWII, I’d call the point it’s currently at the Battle of Kursk with Freeman playing the role of General Erich von Manstein.

Freeman, an almost MAGICALLY multicultural hire at this MAXIMALLY multicultural moment, has been given the job of OUTRECRUITING teams that offer the MOST EXCEPTIONAL athletes, EDUCATION-FREE scholarships as opposed to a FREE EDUCATION.

But where are Freeman’s NEW PANZERS? His upgraded Panther and Tiger tanks? Will they EVER make it to the battlefield?

And if not Freeman, WHO AFTER HIM to protect ND’S INDEPENDENCE from the SOVIET UNION OF CFB CONFERENCES?

Joining the ACC was not a step forward. It was a retreat towards the LIKELY INEVITABILITY OF FULL CONFERENCE MEMBERSHIP. And, frankly, what's ND's alternative if it still wishes to remain ND? The one thing ND never reckoned on was that the other side could actually TAKE ITS BALL AND GO HOME.

AND IT CAN, especially with the momentum and numerical superiority it currently possesses .

Who knows? Maybe Freeman CAN TURN THE TIDE? We'll never know unless ND competes with the best. And if not, what's wrong with being the Big Ten's UBER-NORTHWESTERN or a NON-SECULAR PSU. Most years, ND would have a shot at being among the TOP FOUR TEAMS in the conference.

Time to TAKE THAT CHANCE already.

 

[Golson5]

I agree with your points other than that it would be better for ND to be fully independent.

Yes, LOSE THE ACC as circumstances permit, but join the Big Ten as well. To do otherwise, I’d argue, is for ND to continue to SELECT AGAINST ITSELF as I don’t see how full independence provides any material benefit over the ACC deal. It’s just another form of HAMSTRINGING where ND is still likely to get mostly second-rate airplay – as in a diminishing pool of desirable opponents.

But given how consistently ND has opposed CHANGE, it may take a few years of NARROWING PROSPECTS (and by that, I don’t mean recruits) for it to accept the writing on the wall.

To me, ND spends a lot of time creating the FALSE IMPRESSION that it’s moving forward with the times when in fact it’s fighting a REARGUARD action. If ND were the Wehrmacht in WWII, I’d call the point it’s currently at the Battle of Kursk with Freeman playing the role of General Erich von Manstein.

Freeman, an almost MAGICALLY multicultural hire at this MAXIMALLY multicultural moment, has been given the job of OUTRECRUITING teams that offer the MOST EXCEPTIONAL athletes, EDUCATION-FREE scholarships as opposed to a FREE EDUCATION.

But where are Freeman’s NEW PANZERS? His upgraded Panther and Tiger tanks? Will they EVER make it to the battlefield?

And if not Freeman, WHO AFTER HIM to protect ND’S INDEPENDENCE from the SOVIET UNION OF CFB CONFERENCES?

Joining the ACC was not a step forward. It was a retreat towards the LIKELY INEVITABILITY OF FULL CONFERENCE MEMBERSHIP. And, frankly, what's ND's alternative if it still wishes to remain ND? The one thing ND never reckoned on was that the other side could actually TAKE ITS BALL AND GO HOME.

AND IT CAN, especially with the momentum and numerical superiority it currently possesses .

Who knows? Maybe Freeman CAN TURN THE TIDE? We'll never know unless ND competes with the best. And if not, what's wrong with being the Big Ten's UBER-NORTHWESTERN or SECULAR PSU. Most years, ND would have a shot at being among the TOP FOUR TEAMS in the conference.

Time to TAKE THAT CHANCE already.

We're not going to the Big 10

We don't need to go there

We don't want to go there

We don't have to go there

That was a lot of words and a lot of BS there

 

[sjb75]

We're not going to the Big 10

We don't need to go there

We don't want to go there

We don't have to go there

That was a lot of words and a lot of BS there

The poster you responded to indeed writes a lot and says little.