How much will being a 5th seed at best

[tbonesays]

We will have to be ranked 3rd or better to get the 5th seed.

I don't follow.

Yup, that was the point I was trying to make, although some posters here regard any comment other than a full-throated "Go Irish" as an insult. This scenario will get even worse for ND if FSU and/or Clemson and/or Miami are successful in leaving the ACC. Then you guys will be stuck with five ACC games each year with zero top brands.

False premise. If the good teams leave the ACC then there is a way to leave the ACC. Also it is not the conference that we signed a contract with so the obligations change with the benefits.

I agree with your points other than that it would be better for ND to be fully independent.

Yes, LOSE THE ACC as circumstances permit, but join the Big Ten as well. To do otherwise, I’d argue, is for ND to continue to SELECT AGAINST ITSELF as I don’t see how full independence provides any material benefit over the ACC deal. It’s just another form of HAMSTRINGING where ND is still likely to get mostly second-rate airplay – as in a diminishing pool of desirable opponents.

But given how consistently ND has opposed CHANGE, it may take a few years of NARROWING PROSPECTS (and by that, I don’t mean recruits) for it to accept the writing on the wall.

To me, ND spends a lot of time creating the FALSE IMPRESSION that it’s moving forward with the times when in fact it’s fighting a REARGUARD action. If ND were the Wehrmacht in WWII, I’d call the point it’s currently at the Battle of Kursk with Freeman playing the role of General Erich von Manstein.

Freeman, an almost MAGICALLY multicultural hire at this MAXIMALLY multicultural moment, has been given the job of OUTRECRUITING teams that offer the MOST EXCEPTIONAL athletes, EDUCATION-FREE scholarships as opposed to a FREE EDUCATION.

But where are Freeman’s NEW PANZERS? His upgraded Panther and Tiger tanks? Will they EVER make it to the battlefield?

And if not Freeman, WHO AFTER HIM to protect ND’S INDEPENDENCE from the SOVIET UNION OF CFB CONFERENCES?

Joining the ACC was not a step forward. It was a retreat towards the LIKELY INEVITABILITY OF FULL CONFERENCE MEMBERSHIP. And, frankly, what's ND's alternative if it still wishes to remain ND? The one thing ND never reckoned on was that the other side could actually TAKE ITS BALL AND GO HOME.

AND IT CAN, especially with the momentum and numerical superiority it currently possesses .

Who knows? Maybe Freeman CAN TURN THE TIDE? We'll never know unless ND competes with the best. And if not, what's wrong with being the Big Ten's UBER-NORTHWESTERN or a NON-SECULAR PSU. Most years, ND would have a shot at being among the TOP FOUR TEAMS in the conference.

Time to TAKE THAT CHANCE already.

Kursk was a counter-attack. For that analogy ND would have to be trying to sue the ACC and CFP.

 

[NDinNJ]

You could have saved yourself time by responding no.

Take it easy on him, math is clearly not his strong suit.

 

[NDinNJ]

USC has published an 11-game schedule for 2027. Nine Big Ten games, UNLV and Nevada. No Notre Dame. However UCLA already has a full 12-game schedule for 2027.

2027 USC Football Schedule | FBSchedules.com

View the 2027 USC Football Schedule at FBSchedules.com. The Trojans football schedule includes opponents, date, time, and TV.

fbschedules.com

2027 UCLA Football Schedule | FBSchedules.com

View the 2027 UCLA Football Schedule at FBSchedules.com. The Bruins football schedule includes opponents, date, time, and TV.

fbschedules.com

Just be sure to come back to the forum in October 2027 when ND is hosting USC.

 

[Quix0te]

Just be sure to come back to the forum in October 2027 when ND is hosting USC.

It's kinda strange that so many domers are in denial that USC is ending the rivalry. I realize you don't want the series to end but consider the facts. Neither the USC AD nor the HC have said that it will continue. And if USC planned to schedule the game past 2026, why haven't they done it?

 

[mbd11]

I agree with your points other than that it would be better for ND to be fully independent.

Yes, LOSE THE ACC as circumstances permit, but join the Big Ten as well. To do otherwise, I’d argue, is for ND to continue to SELECT AGAINST ITSELF as I don’t see how full independence provides any material benefit over the ACC deal. It’s just another form of HAMSTRINGING where ND is still likely to get mostly second-rate airplay – as in a diminishing pool of desirable opponents.

But given how consistently ND has opposed CHANGE, it may take a few years of NARROWING PROSPECTS (and by that, I don’t mean recruits) for it to accept the writing on the wall.

To me, ND spends a lot of time creating the FALSE IMPRESSION that it’s moving forward with the times when in fact it’s fighting a REARGUARD action. If ND were the Wehrmacht in WWII, I’d call the point it’s currently at the Battle of Kursk with Freeman playing the role of General Erich von Manstein.

Freeman, an almost MAGICALLY multicultural hire at this MAXIMALLY multicultural moment, has been given the job of OUTRECRUITING teams that offer the MOST EXCEPTIONAL athletes, EDUCATION-FREE scholarships as opposed to a FREE EDUCATION.

But where are Freeman’s NEW PANZERS? His upgraded Panther and Tiger tanks? Will they EVER make it to the battlefield?

And if not Freeman, WHO AFTER HIM to protect ND’S INDEPENDENCE from the SOVIET UNION OF CFB CONFERENCES?

Joining the ACC was not a step forward. It was a retreat towards the LIKELY INEVITABILITY OF FULL CONFERENCE MEMBERSHIP. And, frankly, what's ND's alternative if it still wishes to remain ND? The one thing ND never reckoned on was that the other side could actually TAKE ITS BALL AND GO HOME.

AND IT CAN, especially with the momentum and numerical superiority it currently possesses .

Who knows? Maybe Freeman CAN TURN THE TIDE? We'll never know unless ND competes with the best. And if not, what's wrong with being the Big Ten's UBER-NORTHWESTERN or SECULAR PSU. Most years, ND would have a shot at being among the TOP FOUR TEAMS in the conference.

Time to TAKE THAT CHANCE already.

To further your analogy, General Freeman's new panzers are named Jeremiah Love and Jadarian Price, and they'll be plowing through enemy lines in a few weeks.

The Luftwaffe will be led by ace pilot Riley Leonard, as they drop long bombs all over General Elko's defenses.

 

[Patrirish]

It's kinda strange that so many domers are in denial that USC is ending the rivalry. I realize you don't want the series to end but consider the facts. Neither the USC AD nor the HC have said that it will continue. And if USC planned to schedule the game past 2026, why haven't they done it?

There could be dozens of reasons, reasons that contradict your position.
Time will tell

 

[4-4-3]

I don't follow.

False premise. If the good teams leave the ACC then there is a way to leave the ACC. Also it is not the conference that we signed a contract with so the obligations change with the benefits.

Kursk was a counter-attack. For that analogy ND would have to be trying to sue the ACC and CFP.

Correct. It's an imperfect analogy and made partly in gest.

That said, hasn't Freeman represented a kind of COUNTER-ATTACK? Has he not been the best weapon ND, given its general overall consevatism, can throw at the INEXORABLE DIRECTION CFB has taken towards a battlefield not at all of ND's choosing?

And like Manstein, Freeman wishes to push forward. After all, it was old Adolph who ordered the withdrawal seeing the strength of the Soviet counter-counter-attack. And that's what I think ND must decide. Is it forward, backward or endless war games in NO-MAN'S-LAND. Having Freeman yell CHARGE! alone will not in my opinion make a meaningful difference.

ND should join a conference and get an ACCURATE READ on its capabilties. Optimally, join the Big Ten and find out if it's more like Iowa and Wisconsin or OSU and Michigan. Is it an 8-4 team in the Big Ten or a 10 or 11 win team. Then, once that's determined, LIVE WITH IT or make whatever changes ND -- again given its DOGGED CONSERVATISM -- can stomach.

There's still time to sort this out, and events over the next two or three seasons will no doubt factor in here.

 

[4-4-3]

To further your analogy, General Freeman's new panzers are named Jeremiah Love and Jadarian Price, and they'll be plowing through enemy lines in a few weeks.

The Luftwaffe will be led by ace pilot Riley Leonard, as they drop long bombs all over General Elko's defenses.

I wish them ONLY THE BEST.

Against 2 MAC teams, 2 academies and 5 ACC opponents, the odds are with them, given that, THIS SEASON, they're only at the Poland, France and Benelux stage of the campaign.

If Price and Love turn out to be only half as good as panzer commanders, Guderian and Rommel, it should be a decent season. Let's just hope, though, that Leonard isn't the Luftwaffe's Hermann Goering. Air power, too, is critical.

 

[sjb75]

Just be sure to come back to the forum in October 2027 when ND is hosting USC.

LMAO. 100% agree.

 

[Quix0te]

Correct. It's an imperfect analogy and made partly in gest.

That said, hasn't Freeman represented a kind of COUNTER-ATTACK? Has he not been the best weapon ND, given its general overall consevatism, can throw at the INEXORABLE DIRECTION CFB has made towards a landscape not at all of ND's choosing?

And like Manstein, Freeman wishes to push forward. Afer all, it was old Adolph who ordered the withdrawal seeing the strength of the Soviet counter-counter-attack. And that's what I think ND must decide. Is it forward, backward or endless war games in NO-MAN'S-LAND. Having Freeman yell CHARGE! alone will not in my opinion make a meaningful difference.

ND should join a conference and get an ACCURATE READ on its capabilties. Optimally, join the Big Ten and find out if it's more like Iowa and Wisconsin or OSU and Michigan. Is it an 8-4 team in the Big Ten or a 10 or 11 win team. Then, once that's determined, LIVE WITH IT or make whatever changes ND -- again given its DOGGED CONSERVATISM -- can stomach.

There's still time to sort this out, and events over the next two or three seasons will no doubt factor in here.

"False premise. If the good teams leave the ACC then there is a way to leave the ACC."

I take exception to that declaration. FSU, Clemson et al have TWO hurdles to leaving the ACC: The exit penality fee and the grant of rights. As noted previously, paying the exit fee does NOT provide release from the GOR. That also must be negotiated and will have yet another exit penalty fee.

But ND actually has THREE hurdles to leaving the ACC: Exit fee, GOR and the contractual promise that if ND joins a conference before 2036, it will be the ACC. You domers may not yet understand this, but you have been Swarbricked.

 

[Shank-O]

"False premise. If the good teams leave the ACC then there is a way to leave the ACC."

I take exception to that declaration. FSU, Clemson et al have TWO hurdles to leaving the ACC: The exit penality fee and the grant of rights. As noted previously, paying the exit fee does NOT provide release from the GOR. That also must be negotiated and will have yet another exit penalty fee.

But ND actually has THREE hurdles to leaving the ACC: Exit fee, GOR and the contractual promise that if ND joins a conference before 2036, it will be the ACC. You domers may not yet understand this, but you have been Swarbricked.

Your obsession with Notre Dame is weird, little fella.

 

[Golson5]

"False premise. If the good teams leave the ACC then there is a way to leave the ACC."

I take exception to that declaration. FSU, Clemson et al have TWO hurdles to leaving the ACC: The exit penality fee and the grant of rights. As noted previously, paying the exit fee does NOT provide release from the GOR. That also must be negotiated and will have yet another exit penalty fee.

But ND actually has THREE hurdles to leaving the ACC: Exit fee, GOR and the contractual promise that if ND joins a conference before 2036, it will be the ACC. You domers may not yet understand this, but you have been Swarbricked.

We don't need to leave the ACC.

We don't need a conference.

We will be more than fine.

 

[Quix0te]

Your obsession with Notre Dame is weird, little fella.

What is truly weird is the compulsion of some posters here to attack the messenger rather than address and debate the issue being discussed.

 

[NDinNJ]

It's kinda strange that so many domers are in denial that USC is ending the rivalry. I realize you don't want the series to end but consider the facts. Neither the USC AD nor the HC have said that it will continue. And if USC planned to schedule the game past 2026, why haven't they done it?

Ok sport. There's a reason that USC has one open game left for 2027, that's reserved for ND as they hash out the details. If they were planning to replace ND with a soft MAC team OOC game they would have done it already.

 

[mbd11]

I wish them ONLY THE BEST.

Against 2 MAC teams, 2 academies and 5 ACC opponents, the odds are with them, given that, THIS SEASON, they're only at the Poland, France and Benelux stage of the campaign.

If Price and Love turn out to be only half as good as panzer commanders, Guderian and Rommel, it should be a decent season. Let's just hope, though, that Leonard isn't the Luftwaffe's Hermann Goering. Air power, too, is critical.

Okay, I see, but I think I'm gonna stop with the comparisons of our football program to the Wehrmacht. I doubt Freeman or Bevacqua would be very flattered.

 

[Quix0te]

Ok sport. There's a reason that USC has one open game left for 2027, that's reserved for ND as they hash out the details. If they were planning to replace ND with a soft MAC team OOC game they would have done it already.

Hash out the details??? Duh, should we play in mid-October is SB and end of season in LA? Duh?

NDinNJ, please wake up. The ND-USC annual rivalry is finished. It is over. USC is cancelling the series.

 

[mbd11]

Hash out the details??? Duh, should we play in mid-October is SB and end of season in LA? Duh?

NDinNJ, please wake up. The ND-USC annual rivalry is finished. It is over. USC is cancelling the series.

There are probably negotiations going on behind the scenes right now. The Big Ten's probably pushing USC to only schedule us in September, and ND's no doubt pushing for our traditional dates with them. We'll see what happens.

 

[Patrirish]

Hash out the details??? Duh, should we play in mid-October is SB and end of season in LA? Duh?

NDinNJ, please wake up. The ND-USC annual rivalry is finished. It is over. USC is cancelling the series.

Are you willing to give odds on that?

 

[sjb75]

Ok sport. There's a reason that USC has one open game left for 2027, that's reserved for ND as they hash out the details. If they were planning to replace ND with a soft MAC team OOC game they would have done it already.

Agreed. There's a really good reason USC has not finalized the 2027 schedule.

 

[Patrirish]

What is truly weird is the compulsion of some posters here to attack the messenger rather than address and debate the issue being discussed.

it’s not necessarily weird, rather it’s more like SOP 😜

 

[sjb75]

There are probably negotiations going on behind the scenes right now. The Big Ten's probably pushing USC to only schedule us in September, and ND's no doubt pushing for our traditional dates with them. We'll see what happens.

I agree that some type of back and forth between Pete Bevacqua and USC AD Jennifer Cohen is happening. Scheduling and such.

 

[4-4-3]

Okay, I see, but I think I'm gonna stop with the comparisons of our football program to the Wehrmacht. I doubt Freeman or Bevacqua would be very flattered.

Yes, it's a DARK METAPHOR I've chosen.

But I promise -- NO AI HEADFAKES with Marcus Freeman wearing AFRIKA CORPS CAMO.

Next time, I'm toning it down to something more like the WARS OF THE ROSES or the SEIGE OF VIENNA in which Marcus can play either Henry VII or John Sobieski of Poland. But again, no videos.

Just trying to have some fun here. Appreciate your indulging me.

 

[NDSMC78]

It's kinda strange that so many domers are in denial that USC is ending the rivalry. I realize you don't want the series to end but consider the facts. Neither the USC AD nor the HC have said that it will continue. And if USC planned to schedule the game past 2026, why haven't they done it?

Why do you continue to post this? Do you have any purpose in life other to stir things up on this board? Shouldn't a Purdue fan have more important things to be concerned about than whether ND will or will not keep playing another school?

 

[NDSMC78]

What is truly weird is the compulsion of some posters here to attack the messenger rather than address and debate the issue being discussed.

If you don't like what you perceive to be weirdness on the part of posters here, you are free to leave.

 

[NDinNJ]

Why do you continue to post this? Do you have any purpose in life other to stir things up on this board? Shouldn't a Purdue fan have more important things to be concerned about than whether ND will or will not keep playing another school?

Same poster alludes to Notre Dame being irrelevant, yet here he is on a Notre Dame forum discussing Notre Dame. 😂

 

[NDinNJ]

Hash out the details??? Duh, should we play in mid-October is SB and end of season in LA? Duh?

NDinNJ, please wake up. The ND-USC annual rivalry is finished. It is over. USC is cancelling the series.

Would you care to place a wager on it?

 

[sjb75]

Would you care to place a wager on it?

I'd be willing to wager as well.

 

[tbonesays]

"False premise. If the good teams leave the ACC then there is a way to leave the ACC."

I take exception to that declaration. FSU, Clemson et al have TWO hurdles to leaving the ACC: The exit penality fee and the grant of rights. As noted previously, paying the exit fee does NOT provide release from the GOR. That also must be negotiated and will have yet another exit penalty fee.

But ND actually has THREE hurdles to leaving the ACC: Exit fee, GOR and the contractual promise that if ND joins a conference before 2036, it will be the ACC. You domers may not yet understand this, but you have been Swarbricked.

Not that it matters because we are not trying to leave our relationship with the ACC, but the GOR is the only thing that matters. That contractual provision would be an afterthought if for some reason we left the ACC and there is still an ACC left to file a lawsuit.

 

[Quix0te]

Against 2 MAC teams, 2 academies and 5 ACC opponents, the odds are with them, given that, THIS SEASON, they're only at the Poland, France and Benelux . . .

Your ACC opponents may be changing a lot sooner than you expected. Dennis Dodd, usually a reliable source, predicts that ESPN will NOT pick up its option to extend the ACC contract beyond 2027 and that we'll have another wave of realignment beginning in six months.

• Dennis Dodd: In February, ESPN will exercise its option not to extend the ACC contract beyond 2027. Florida State -- having played the long game -- will have its out and be able to put itself on the market. FSU will do so at a much reduced rate to get out of the grant of rights since it will only have three years to run. Don't ask me where FSU goes, but if it is as free agent beginning in 2028, there will be Power Four interest. Basically, the next round of major realignment begins less than a month after the 2025 championship game. Buckle up.

 

[4-4-3]

Your ACC opponents may be changing a lot sooner than you expected. Dennis Dodd, usually a reliable source, predicts that ESPN will NOT pick up its option to extend the ACC contract beyond 2027 and that we'll have another wave of realignment beginning in six months.

• Dennis Dodd: In February, ESPN will exercise its option not to extend the ACC contract beyond 2027. Florida State -- having played the long game -- will have its out and be able to put itself on the market. FSU will do so at a much reduced rate to get out of the grant of rights since it will only have three years to run. Don't ask me where FSU goes, but if it is as free agent beginning in 2028, there will be Power Four interest. Basically, the next round of major realignment begins less than a month after the 2025 championship game. Buckle up.

NOTA BENE.

 

[Quix0te]

NOTA BENE.

My hunch is that ESPN is backing away from extending the ACC TV contract because they don't want to be accused of keeping FSU and Clemson 'trapped' in a conference that they want to leave. The irony in this is that the ACC TV package will be worth even less if the two top brands depart. The ESPN payouts to the remaining ACC schools may go from chump change to peanuts.

 

[4-4-3]

My hunch is that ESPN is backing away from extending the ACC TV contract because they don't want to be accused of keeping FSU and Clemson 'trapped' in a conference that they want to leave. The irony in this is that the ACC TV package will be worth even less if the two top brands depart. The ESPN payouts to the remaining ACC schools may go from chump change to peanuts.

Understood.

So, what do you think happens with the ACC if FSU and Clemson leave, and how might that affect what ND does?

And I realize we're only speculating here rather than making multi-derivative predictions.

 

[Quix0te]

So, what do you think happens with the ACC if FSU and Clemson leave, and how might that affect what ND does?

Well, it's a thorny issue. ND would probably maintain the status quo and start scheduling more heavyweights from the Big Ten and SEC. However the heavyweights in the Big Ten and SEC may stop scheduling ND for the same reason that USC wants to drop the Irish and indeed, every team in both conferences now has a considerably tougher schedule going forward.

Something I've mentioned previously, ND could leave the ACC, rejoin the Big East in Olympic sports and be truly independent in football. Good hoops and the travel logistics would be a good deal better but we're also back to the same question about football scheduling. Would the heavyweights shun ND to enhance their playoff hopes?

 

[Golson5]

Well, it's a thorny issue. ND would probably maintain the status quo and start scheduling more heavyweights from the Big Ten and SEC. However the heavyweights in the Big Ten and SEC may stop scheduling ND for the same reason that USC wants to drop the Irish and indeed, every team in both conferences now has a considerably tougher schedule going forward.

Something I've mentioned previously, ND could leave the ACC, rejoin the Big East in Olympic sports and be truly independent in football. Good hoops and the travel logistics would be a good deal better but we're also back to the same question about football scheduling. Would the heavyweights shun ND to enhance their playoff hopes?

No

 

[NDSMC78]

Well, it's a thorny issue. ND would probably maintain the status quo and start scheduling more heavyweights from the Big Ten and SEC. However the heavyweights in the Big Ten and SEC may stop scheduling ND for the same reason that USC wants to drop the Irish and indeed, every team in both conferences now has a considerably tougher schedule going forward.

Something I've mentioned previously, ND could leave the ACC, rejoin the Big East in Olympic sports and be truly independent in football. Good hoops and the travel logistics would be a good deal better but we're also back to the same question about football scheduling. Would the heavyweights shun ND to enhance their playoff hopes?

Notre Dame is truly independent in football. More of your usual BS.

 

[mbd11]

Understood.

So, what do you think happens with the ACC if FSU and Clemson leave, and how might that affect what ND does?

And I realize we're only speculating here rather than making multi-derivative predictions.

Supposedly Swarbrick helped engineer Stanford, Cal and SMU to the ACC as a pre-emptive action, in case a couple teams left, to keep the ACC's overall numbers sufficient to be a major conference. He was heavily involved in that, reportedly.

So I think that probably indicates right there that ND plans on staying with the ACC, even should 2 or 3 schools leave.

 

[Quix0te]

Supposedly Swarbrick helped engineer Stanford, Cal and SMU to the ACC as a pre-emptive action, in case a couple teams left, to keep the ACC's overall numbers sufficient to be a major conference. He was heavily involved in that, reportedly.

So I think that probably indicates right there that ND plans on staying with the ACC, even should 2 or 3 schools leave.

True, but that's no longer a valid assumption. Swarbrick helped engineer Stanford, Cal and SMU to the ACC at a time that FSU and Clemson were thought to be locked in until 2036. We now have updated info that ESPN may not pick up its option and the ACC may come unglued a lot sooner. Staying in the ACC with its top two brands is a lot different than staying without them. Plus there are already rumors flying that if FSU and Clemson go to the SEC, UNC and UVA are headed for the Big Ten.

 

[NDSMC78]

True, but that's no longer a valid assumption. Swarbrick helped engineer Stanford, Cal and SMU to the ACC at a time that FSU and Clemson were thought to be locked in until 2036. We now have updated info that ESPN may not pick up its option and the ACC may come unglued a lot sooner. Staying in the ACC with its top two brands is a lot different than staying without them. Plus there are already rumors flying that if FSU and Clemson go to the SEC, UNC and UVA are headed for the Big Ten.

There are always lot of rumors flying. There always have been. There always will be. About 1% of them come to fruition.

 

[mbd11]

True, but that's no longer a valid assumption. Swarbrick helped engineer Stanford, Cal and SMU to the ACC at a time that FSU and Clemson were thought to be locked in until 2036. We now have updated info that ESPN may not pick up its option and the ACC may come unglued a lot sooner. Staying in the ACC with its top two brands is a lot different than staying without them. Plus there are already rumors flying that if FSU and Clemson go to the SEC, UNC and UVA are headed for the Big Ten.

No, Swarbrick helped engineer that move as a pre-emptive strike, in case FSU and Clemson left. The idea of them possibly leaving has been around awhile.

 

[Golson5]

True, but that's no longer a valid assumption. Swarbrick helped engineer Stanford, Cal and SMU to the ACC at a time that FSU and Clemson were thought to be locked in until 2036. We now have updated info that ESPN may not pick up its option and the ACC may come unglued a lot sooner. Staying in the ACC with its top two brands is a lot different than staying without them. Plus there are already rumors flying that if FSU and Clemson go to the SEC, UNC and UVA are headed for the Big Ten.

We'll be fine regardless of what happens to the ACC. Who cares