How much will being a 5th seed at best

[tbonesays]

Supposedly Swarbrick helped engineer Stanford, Cal and SMU to the ACC as a pre-emptive action, in case a couple teams left, to keep the ACC's overall numbers sufficient to be a major conference. He was heavily involved in that, reportedly.

So I think that probably indicates right there that ND plans on staying with the ACC, even should 2 or 3 schools leave.

There are always lot of rumors flying. There always have been. There always will be. About 1% of them come to fruition.

Dodd is a clown. It makes little legal sense that a GOR expires simply because the conference has to change networks or modify their contract with the same network. However the 'rumors' all trend in one direction which implies that they are planned and coordinated.

 

[Patrirish]

We'll be fine regardless of what happens to the ACC. Who cares

I tend to agree

As long as we produce competitive teams, preferably finishing the top 15 every year, will be fine.

 

[Quix0te]

So, what do you think happens with the ACC if FSU and Clemson leave, and how might that affect what ND does?

To gauge the impact of FSU, Clemson anbd Miami leaving the ACC, here is a stunning statistic:

"Without Florida State, Clemson, and Miami the ACC would have averaged fewer television viewers than the American Athletic Conference from 2014-2021. The ACC's current television deal is worth $30 million a year per school while the American Athletic Conference's current TV deal is worth $7 million a year per school."

https://www.tomahawknation.com/2024...State, Clemson, and,million a year per school.

 

[Golson5]

To gauge the impact of FSU, Clemson anbd Miami leaving the ACC, here is a stunning statistic:

"Without Florida State, Clemson, and Miami the ACC would have averaged fewer television viewers than the American Athletic Conference from 2014-2021. The ACC's current television deal is worth $30 million a year per school while the American Athletic Conference's current TV deal is worth $7 million a year per school."

https://www.tomahawknation.com/2024/2/20/24078041/acc-fsu-conference-realignment-motion-to-dismiss-gor-leon-county#:~:text=Without Florida State, Clemson, and,million a year per school.

Wow you are obsessed

 

[4-4-3]

Well, it's a thorny issue. ND would probably maintain the status quo and start scheduling more heavyweights from the Big Ten and SEC. However the heavyweights in the Big Ten and SEC may stop scheduling ND for the same reason that USC wants to drop the Irish and indeed, every team in both conferences now has a considerably tougher schedule going forward.

Something I've mentioned previously, ND could leave the ACC, rejoin the Big East in Olympic sports and be truly independent in football. Good hoops and the travel logistics would be a good deal better but we're also back to the same question about football scheduling. Would the heavyweights shun ND to enhance their playoff hopes?

Yes, RIGHT BACK TO SQUARE ONE.

Will it be worth playing an INDEPENDENT ND once everything is CONCRETE CONFERENCE-CENTRIC?

Paraphrasing WILLIAM OF OCCAM . . . why multiply OBSTACLES unnecessarily?

How will playing ND be considered a positive if it can't be MONETARILY QUANTIFIED as one?

We'll see.

 

[4-4-3]

Supposedly Swarbrick helped engineer Stanford, Cal and SMU to the ACC as a pre-emptive action, in case a couple teams left, to keep the ACC's overall numbers sufficient to be a major conference. He was heavily involved in that, reportedly.

So I think that probably indicates right there that ND plans on staying with the ACC, even should 2 or 3 schools leave.

But, I take it, still as an ASSOCIATE. Is that right?

If so, a potential schedule of 5 ACC teams, one or two MAC teams, one or two service academies and whatever BIG BOY CONFERENCE teams would be willing to risk playing ND at the cost of playoff positioning, i.e. solely in the name of TRADITION, i.e a nice PAYDAY.

Wouldn't it be ironic if ND had to pay to play BIG TEN or SEC teams? As a way for them to HEDGE the playoff liability ND could present?

Whereas ND might be paying to actually GET INTO the playoffs given potential weakness of schedule issues, Stanford, Cal and SMU not exactly being Clemson, FSU or whatever other better team might skip.

 

[sjb75]

Wow you are obsessed

That's kind.

 

[tbonesays]

To gauge the impact of FSU, Clemson anbd Miami leaving the ACC, here is a stunning statistic:

"Without Florida State, Clemson, and Miami the ACC would have averaged fewer television viewers than the American Athletic Conference from 2014-2021. The ACC's current television deal is worth $30 million a year per school while the American Athletic Conference's current TV deal is worth $7 million a year per school."

https://www.tomahawknation.com/2024/2/20/24078041/acc-fsu-conference-realignment-motion-to-dismiss-gor-leon-county#:~:text=Without Florida State, Clemson, and,million a year per school.

But nah. That's because Clemson and FSU get the best ACC timeslots which would go to other schools. You can make the exact same claim about the top two performers in any normal conference.

But, I take it, still as an ASSOCIATE. Is that right?

If so, a potential schedule of 5 ACC teams, one or two MAC teams, one or two service academies and whatever BIG BOY CONFERENCE teams would be willing to risk playing ND at the cost of playoff positioning, i.e. solely in the name of TRADITION, i.e a nice PAYDAY.

Wouldn't it be ironic if ND had to pay to play BIG TEN or SEC teams? As a way for them to HEDGE the playoff liability ND could present?

Whereas ND might be paying to actually GET INTO the playoffs given potential weakness of schedule issues, Stanford, Cal and SMU not exactly being Clemson, FSU or whatever other better team might skip.

huh?

 

[4-4-3]

But nah. That's because Clemson and FSU get the best ACC timeslots which would go to other schools. You can make the exact same claim about the top two performers in any normal conference.

huh?

What can I clarify for you?

 

[tbonesays]

What can I clarify for you?

What did you mean by "pay to play" in the context of an ND football schedule.

 

[4-4-3]

What did you mean by "pay to play" in the context of an ND football schedule.

Nothing illicit in the way that term is often used.

But rather SOME VERSION PERHAPS of this:

In college football, they are called guarantee games. One university pays another an exorbitant flat fee to play a football game on the road with no return game. Normally, the home team draws a crowd large enough to easily cover the one-time fee.Sep 12, 2022.

My thought was would ND be willing to pay Big Ten and SEC teams to play it when they might OTHERWISE have NOTHING playoff-wise to gain from it. It wouldn't be a PAYOFF but certainly a PAYOUT.

I'm interested in seeing if a schedule composed almost exclusively of ACC, MAC and service academy teams is actually WORTHY OF ND and its NC aspirations, especially in view of its history.

If I'm in the NOW VERY COMPETITIVE SEC or BIG TEN, why risk playing ND?

UNLESS I WANT SOME MONEY.

I wonder if we're looking at a LOOMING IRONY here.

 

[sjb75]

What can I clarify for you?

Nothing. Ever.

 

[Quix0te]

Nothing elicit in the way that term is often used.

But rather SOME VERSION PERHAPS of this:

In college football, they are called guarantee games. One university pays another an exorbitant flat fee to play a football game on the road with no return game. Normally, the home team draws a crowd large enough to easily cover the one-time fee.Sep 12, 2022.

My thought was would ND be willing to pay Big Ten and SEC teams to play it when they might OTHERWISE have NOTHING playoff-wise to gain from it. It wouldn't be a PAYOFF but certainly a PAYOUT.

I'm interested in seeing if a schedule composed almost exclusively of ACC, MAC and service academy teams is actually WORTHY OF ND and its NC aspirations, especially in view of its history.

If I'm in the NOW VERY COMPETITIVE SEC or BIG TEN, why risk playing ND?

UNLESS I WANT SOME MONEY.

I wonder if we're looking at a LOOMING IRONY here.

Spot on, 4-4-3. I too believe that is ND's future scheduling. You'll be playing the Purdues and Michigan States and Indianas and TX A&Ms and Arkansas' and Floridas. I realize that ND has a H&H scheduled with Michigan, but that's way out. The current coach and current AD won't be around to worry about that one. Heck, they might even schedule another H&H with ND for 2055 and 2056.

 

[tbonesays]

Nothing elicit in the way that term is often used.

But rather SOME VERSION PERHAPS of this:

In college football, they are called guarantee games. One university pays another an exorbitant flat fee to play a football game on the road with no return game. Normally, the home team draws a crowd large enough to easily cover the one-time fee.Sep 12, 2022.

My thought was would ND be willing to pay Big Ten and SEC teams to play it when they might OTHERWISE have NOTHING playoff-wise to gain from it. It wouldn't be a PAYOFF but certainly a PAYOUT.

I'm interested in seeing if a schedule composed almost exclusively of ACC, MAC and service academy teams is actually WORTHY OF ND and its NC aspirations, especially in view of its history.

If I'm in the NOW VERY COMPETITIVE SEC or BIG TEN, why risk playing ND?

UNLESS I WANT SOME MONEY.

I wonder if we're looking at a LOOMING IRONY here.

You mean that ND would pay Michigan to play a one off game in Ann Arbor? This solution does not have a problem.

 

[Quix0te]

You mean that ND would pay Michigan to play a one off game in Ann Arbor? This solution does not have a problem.

I didn't say that at all.

 

[4-4-3]

You mean that ND would pay Michigan to play a one off game in Ann Arbor? This solution does not have a problem.

No, I meant that ND would pay UM to play it at home. In South Bend.

UM would obtain a nice PAYOUT in return for risking a loss to ND and the consequent possible loss of a playoff spot.

ND would risk a loss by playing a more competitive team vs. the SOS boost -- as per strengthening its own playoff case -- in the event it won.

I'm PURELY SPECULATING here and have no idea if something like this would ever happen. But as someone who would like to see ND in the Big Ten, I come up with these scenarios from time to time as a kind of thought exercise.

And if I'm thinking this way, maybe someone in a position to do something about it is on the same page.

You neve know.

 

[Golson5]

No, I meant that ND would pay UM to play it at home. In South Bend.

UM would obtain a nice PAYOUT in return for risking a loss to ND and the consequent possible loss of a playoff spot.

ND would risk a loss by playing a more competitive team vs. the SOS boost -- as per strengthening its own playoff case -- in the event it won.

I'm PURELY SPECULATING here and have no idea if something like this would ever happen. But as someone who would like to see ND in the Big Ten, I come up with these scenarios from time to time as a kind of thought exercise.

And if I'm thinking this way, maybe someone in a position to do something about it is on the same page.

You neve know.

You're out of your mind

 

[Quix0te]

But as someone who would like to see ND in the Big Ten, I come up with these scenarios from time to time as a kind of thought exercise.

Yeah, things have evolved that way. Football independence has served Notre Dame very well for a long time. But if you take an objective assessment of the current conference alignments, the reality is that for playing a truly coast-to-coast national schedule, playing 2-3 top brands every year, having a strong SOS every year to enhance playoff hopes, and playing traditional rivals (to include USC), ND would be better off in the Big Ten than their current arrangement with the ACC. And if the ACC continues down its slippery slope, that will be even more true in 2-3 years if FSU and Clemson are gone.

A couple of ND's 'sacred cow' traditions have come and gone over the years. ND refused to play bowl games because that would interfere with studies for final exams. Then all of a sudden, bowls were OK. And it was an all-male school. Then all of a sudden, girls were OK. It's going to be the same with football independence. It's now a Holy Grail but if it becomes obvious that a change is needed, that too will come to pass and the ND brand will continue to be as strong as ever.

ND isn't the top brand in college football because they're independent. ND is the top brand in college football because of their legacy.

 

[Golson5]

Yeah, things have evolved that way. Football independence has served Notre Dame very well for a long time. But if you take an objective assessment of the current conference alignments, the reality is that for playing a truly coast-to-coast national schedule, playing 2-3 top brands every year, having a strong SOS every year to enhance playoff hopes, and playing traditional rivals (to include USC), ND would be better off in the Big Ten than their current arrangement with the ACC. And if the ACC continues down its slippery slope, that will be even more true in 2-3 years if FSU and Clemson are gone.

A couple of ND's 'sacred' traditions have come and gone over the years. ND refused to play bowl games because that would interfere with studies for final exams. Then all of a sudden, bowls were OK. And it was an all-male school. Then all of a sudden, girls were OK. It's going to be the same with football independence. It's now a Holy Grail but if it becomes obvious that a change is needed, that will come to pass and the ND brand will continue to be as strong as ever. ND isn't the top brand in college football because they're independent. ND is the top brand in college football because of their legacy.

We're not joining the Big 10. We don't need to join the Big 10. We arent going to join the Big 10

 

[NDSMC78]

Yeah, things have evolved that way. Football independence has served Notre Dame very well for a long time. But if you take an objective assessment of the current conference alignments, the reality is that for playing a truly coast-to-coast national schedule, playing 2-3 top brands every year, having a strong SOS every year to enhance playoff hopes, and playing traditional rivals (to include USC), ND would be better off in the Big Ten than their current arrangement with the ACC. And if the ACC continues down its slippery slope, that will be even more true in 2-3 years if FSU and Clemson are gone.

No, ND would not be better in the Big 10, ND is just fine, thank you. And I guaranty you that ND does not need your recommendations concerning how best to proceed with its football program.
For reasons unknown, you are obsessed with ND. I imagine that it has to do with being a Purdue fan and being so terrible for so many years. You are continually posting flames here. Why don't you go somewhere where you feeble thoughts will be appreciated?

 

[sjb75]

Yeah, things have evolved that way. Football independence has served Notre Dame very well for a long time. But if you take an objective assessment of the current conference alignments, the reality is that for playing a truly coast-to-coast national schedule, playing 2-3 top brands every year, having a strong SOS every year to enhance playoff hopes, and playing traditional rivals (to include USC), ND would be better off in the Big Ten than their current arrangement with the ACC. And if the ACC continues down its slippery slope, that will be even more true in 2-3 years if FSU and Clemson are gone.

A couple of ND's 'sacred' traditions have come and gone over the years. ND refused to play bowl games because that would interfere with studies for final exams. Then all of a sudden, bowls were OK. And it was an all-male school. Then all of a sudden, girls were OK. It's going to be the same with football independence. It's now a Holy Grail but if it becomes obvious that a change is needed, that will come to pass and the ND brand will continue to be as strong as ever. ND isn't the top brand in college football because they're independent. ND is the top brand in college football because of their legacy.

Yawn.

 

[4-4-3]

Yeah, things have evolved that way. Football independence has served Notre Dame very well for a long time. But if you take an objective assessment of the current conference alignments, the reality is that for playing a truly coast-to-coast national schedule, playing 2-3 top brands every year, having a strong SOS every year to enhance playoff hopes, and playing traditional rivals (to include USC), ND would be better off in the Big Ten than their current arrangement with the ACC. And if the ACC continues down its slippery slope, that will be even more true in 2-3 years if FSU and Clemson are gone.

A couple of ND's 'sacred cow' traditions have come and gone over the years. ND refused to play bowl games because that would interfere with studies for final exams. Then all of a sudden, bowls were OK. And it was an all-male school. Then all of a sudden, girls were OK. It's going to be the same with football independence. It's now a Holy Grail but if it becomes obvious that a change is needed, that too will come to pass and the ND brand will continue to be as strong as ever.

ND isn't the top brand in college football because they're independent. ND is the top brand in college football because of their legacy.

"ND isn't the top brand in college football because they're independent. ND is the top brand in college football because of their legacy."

I think you framed that perfectly. And it mirrors my own analysis.

I’ll just BOTTOM LINE IT. The best teams will be in the Big Ten and the SEC. Should those conferences freeze out ND – and what have they to lose if they do? ZERO – ND will be reduced to THE BEST OF THE REST – and at a time when the rest AIN’T WHAT IT USED TO BE.

For instance, Cal, Stanford and SMU are in no way pound for pound replacements for Clemson, FSU and Miami should the latter three exit the ACC.

And at what point would ND weary each year of trying to cobble together an SOS-worthy schedule, so that it could perhaps still qualify for the playoffs at 10-2? Or on the other hand, if it were unable to assemble that schedule, even at 12-0?

My father, a diehard ND fan from the Leahy era, always scoffed at OU’s 47-game win streak. He argued, “they don’t play anyone.” True or not, WHO WOULD ND PLAY if conferences (Big Ten/SEC) shunned it? Then compare that to whom it would HAVE TO PLAY as a member of the Big Ten.

If ND’s goal is to play the best competition, then it should look to the Big Ten. In what other direction lies greater LEGITIMACY?

And let’s not forget the ironies involved in all of this.

First, the game is no longer a largely regional sport. Conferences still have geographical titles, but for the moment at least, those titles signify less and less. As a result, ND is no longer the only marquee coast-to-coast team. Big “identity loss” right there.

Second, ND tried three times to enter the Big Ten’s tent. Religious bigotry at the time kept that from happening. But now, when it makes even more sense to be a member, ND somehow believes it’s taking THE HIGH ROAD by remaining independent, even as it resists the INEVITABLE DIRECTION of CFB.

And your “sacred cow” point in this regard was SPOT-ON. The almost religious-level INDEPENDENCE ORTHODOXY displayed by many ND supporters is so strong that just the thought of its joining a conference elicits something approaching HOSTILITY.

To me, joining a conference represents nothing more than finally giving up the HOMECOMING KING TITLE and rejoining the rest of the STUDENT BODY. Or to put it more bluntly, abandoning the switcheroo logic of turning REJECTION into grounds for PRESUMED ELITISM.

My sense is that at some point, it’s all likely to BACKFIRE.

 

[Golson5]

"ND isn't the top brand in college football because they're independent. ND is the top brand in college football because of their legacy."

I think you framed that perfectly. And it mirrors my own analysis.

I’ll just BOTTOM LINE IT. The best teams will be in the Big Ten and the SEC. Should those conferences freeze out ND – and what have they to lose if they do? ZERO – ND will be reduced to THE BEST OF THE REST – and at a time when the rest AIN’T WHAT IT USED TO BE.

For instance, Cal, Stanford and SMU are in no way pound for pound replacements for Clemson, FSU and Miami should the latter three exit the ACC.

And at what point would ND weary each year of trying to cobble together an SOS-worthy schedule, so that it could perhaps still qualify for the playoffs at 10-2? Or on the other hand, if it were unable to assemble that schedule, even at 12-0?

My father, a diehard ND fan from the Leahy era, always scoffed at OU’s 47-game win streak. He argued, “they don’t play anyone.” True or not, WHO WOULD ND PLAY if conferences (Big Ten/SEC) shunned it? Then compare that to whom it would HAVE TO PLAY as a member of the Big Ten.

If ND’s goal is to play the best competition, then it should look to the Big Ten. In what other direction lies greater LEGITIMACY?

And let’s not forget the ironies involved in all of this.

First, the game is no longer a largely regional sport. Conferences still have geographical titles, but for the moment at least, those titles signify less and less. As a result, ND is no longer the only marquee coast-to-coast team. Big “identity loss” right there.

Second, ND tried three times to enter the Big Ten’s tent. Religious bigotry at the time kept that from happening. But now, when it makes even more sense to be a member, ND somehow believes it’s taking THE HIGH ROAD by remaining independent, even as it resists the INEVITABLE DIRECTION of CFB.

And your “sacred cow” point in this regard was SPOT-ON. The almost religious-level INDEPENDENCE ORTHODOXY displayed by many ND supporters is so strong that just the thought of its joining a conference elicits something approaching HOSTILITY.

To me, joining a conference represents nothing more than finally giving up the HOMECOMING KING TITLE and rejoining the rest of the STUDENT BODY. Or to put it more bluntly, abandoning the switcheroo logic of turning REJECTION into grounds for PRESUMED ELITISM.

My sense is that at some point, it’s all likely to BACKFIRE.

So dumb