Honestly, what’s the point? After so many years, why keep caring? Just devastated year after year.

[4-4-3]

t

Freeman is young and inexperienced enough with enough of a body of work suggesting a lot of upside. Across the board: Xs and Os, game plan, play calling, complementing what so far seems like better recruiting and motivating charisma that matters to young athletes. No doubt yesterday was lost in a few moments ind details, against an extremely good opponent in big game.

I dare say Notre Dame lost this one more than Ohio State won it. As I posted earlier, even my weak armchair coaching on that last ND drive would have called better. Sticking with a late jelling OL and run game to eat clock. Absolutely asking Harman for temperance, for conservatism.

Yes, that last Buckeye drive ND athletes, but, coaches as well lost it. ND might have more rushers on 3rd and 19. I wince how that pass was even got there amid 4 defenders. Then 10 men?

Again, a few moments and details. It is telling progress that ND forced this kind of game instead of handing it over. CBK didn't do this in so. many similar situations. Freeman suffered this legacy last year, but is so far convincing me it's turning around. This is statistical.

My eye says better players are becoming more evenly distributed. Yet ND seems to retain a good and actually improving recruiting base. The Freeman factor capitalizing, with select transfers like Hartman, ironically with NIL and this transfer portal.

I was pessimistic last year. I'm guarded. There is so much to prove. But I left yesterday optimistic...in spite of being devastated as a fan that ND lost...but really feel ND was better, that ND would win in a 3 or 5 match series. Reason to hope, against lower predictive odds given how Freeman is classified.

Guarded sounds like the right word. To me, it's a word for ALL SEASONS.

The point I want to stress is that a young coach, a committed team and a sense of enthuiasm can all BODE VERY WELL.

While it did for Ara, though, IT DID NOT FOR BRENNAN who was the much celebrated young ND coach of MY YOUTH.

And I -- and others at the time -- watched him fail as a result of inexperience, slightly less talent, murderous schedules and having to operate within ND's more RAREFIED context.

Freeman, SO FAR, is alreday NOT Ara. I just hope he doesn't become Brennan. But even if Freeman does succeed and, particularly, if he doesn't, ND COULD LOSE MORE OF THESE HEARTBREAKERS. And it's often part of the LEARNING CURVE faced by a young, inexperienced coach. And part of the price for that, we all paid last night.

Four of Freeman's six losses have been WINNABLE GAMES. ND wasn't going to beat OSU last year or USC, but the other four have either been HEARTBREAKERS or HEAD-SCRATCHERS.

My concern is that it's entirely PLAUSIBLE for that scenario to continue. NOT saying it will, but it's conceivalbe which is why I, TOO, remain GUARDED.

 

[4-4-3]

ND out played them most of the game, and if our safety, who was in perfect coverage, catches an easy pick it's game over and your post would be a little different

To be clear, I'm not being CRITICAL of ND. But I AM looking CRITICALLY at what happened.

"Mostly played better" doesn't matter if you lose. And if you MOSTLY DON'T PLAY BETTER DOWN THE STRETCH in a tight ballgame, YOU MOSTLY LOSE.

And for a DB to muff a pick down the stretch exemplifies BOTH POINTS.

Not playing well at CRITICAL JUNCTURES can nullify a lot of HEART and BETTER PLAY at other times. When OSU absolutey HAD TO MAKE PLAYS it did. ND DIDN'T.

To me, it felt like a prize fight. While ND BOXED BRILLIANTLY, there was always that sense that OSU was the HARDER PUNCHER and could take command of the game at any point and KNOCK ND OUT, but to ND's credit, that DIDN'T HAPPEN. Meaning that ND is at least THAT GOOD.

Yet, in the last round, OSU landed just enough HARD PUNCHES to come away with a split decision.

Another important CRITICAL JUNCTURE win for OSU was the almost UNCONTESTED TD run by Henderson which to go back to the boxing analogy, was a CLEAR KNOCKDOWN and just as important to the outcome as the winning TD. And it came on the VERY NEXT PLAY after ND failed to convert on FOURTH DOWN.

Neither play was an example of ND being the better team.

OSU experienced NUMEROUS FAILURES as well. But in the end, they got it done. I'd rather admit that and feel the pain of it than argue that ND was still somehow the "BETTER TEAM."

It was an extremely CLEAN FIGHT that ND lost by a whisker. Now, on to Duke.

 

[Patrirish]

To be clear, I'm not being CRITICAL of ND. But I AM looking CRITICALLY at what happened.

"Mostly played better" doesn't matter if you lose. And if you MOSTLY DON'T PLAY BETTER DOWN THE STRETCH in a tight ballgame, YOU MOSTLY LOSE.

And for a DB to muff a pick down the stretch exemplifies BOTH POINTS.

Not playing well at CRITICAL JUNCTURES can nullify a lot of HEART and BETTER PLAY at other times. When OSU absolutey HAD TO MAKE PLAYS it did. ND DIDN'T.

To me, it felt like a prize fight. While ND BOXED BRILLIANTLY, there was always that sense that OSU was the HARDER PUNCHER and could take command of the game at any point and KNOCK ND OUT, but to ND's credit, that DIDN'T HAPPEN. Meaning that ND is at least THAT GOOD.

Yet, in the last round, OSU landed just enough HARD PUNCHES to come away with a split decision.

Another important CRITICAL JUNCTURE win for OSU was the almost UNCONTESTED TD run by Henderson which to go back to the boxing analogy, was a CLEAR KNOCKDOWN and just as important to the outcome as the winning TD. And it came on the VERY NEXT PLAY after ND failed to convert on FOURTH DOWN.

Neither play was an example of ND being the better team.

OSU experienced NUMEROUS FAILURES as well. But in the end, they got it done. I'd rather admit that and feel the pain of it than argue that ND was still somehow the "BETTER TEAM."

It was an extremely CLEAN FIGHT that ND lost by a whisker. Now, on to Duke.

The failure on 4th and 1 was a killer.

He should have extended the ball for the first down

 

[tkirish]

What we saw tonight was the DOWNSIDE of a second year coach. Freeman recruits hard, players relate to him, and he's a kind of poster boy for what the school wishes to PROJECT.

But his experience is limited, and he appears about average -- if that -- as a game day coach. I also don't get the sense that he's any kind of wunderkind X's and O's guy. Not saying he doesn't know the game, but if there's any BRILLIANCE to him I haven't DETECTED it.

Right now, Freeman's winning percentage is at the MEDIAN POINT between Brennan's and Kelly's which is where I sort of have him in my MIND'S EYE as well.

I think ND can win its share of games under him, but I also believe there will be a FAIR SHARE of TOUGH LOSSES, something that bedeviled guys like Brennan, Faust, Davie and Weis. Kelly, too, in the early going.

My take on the loss:

OSU was still the better team in that you don't necessarily have to be the better team EVERY MINUTE to win the game. You just have to be BETTER AT CRITICAL JUNCTURES. That OSU was able to achieve that was due, I believe, to their greater CHUNK/SHOCK play capability, relying on their somehwat better athletes.

And, frankly, they are a very TOUGH and TALENTED BUNCH, playing for a coach who is now what -- 49 and 6?

As it was, they won the game down the stretch like a gutty thoroughbred THAT'S BEEN THERE AND DONE IT BEFORE. If ND were the better team -- and that includes coaches -- it would have been able to stop OSU. It couldn't.

So, who's the better team?

The one that wins in crunch time which as one of the announcers mentioned is in the final FOUR MINUTES when according to that announcer, MOST GAMES ARE DECIDED, given what's occurred up to that point.

Can ND go THE FINAL YARD in its current 15 year or so REVAMPING? I still have serious doubts.

Can it win 10 or 11 games this year? Maybe. 12? That would seem harder. Only 9? That, too, is a possibilty.

THE CHARACTER TESTS START RIGHT NOW.

Just curious what was Ryan Day’s head coach stops prior to talking over Ohio st ?

 

[ticat]

Yeah, to a bathroom urinal.

If that's where you go to get a good life lesson, says more about you than me...

 

[sjb75]

If that's where you go to get a good life lesson, says more about you than me...

That's a "...good life lesson?" LMAO.

 

[4-4-3]

The failure on 4th and 1 was a killer.

He should have extended the ball for the first down

Sure. It was a game of inches. And that failure to convert plus the second one basically OFFSET the two goal line stands.

In the end, it really came down to which team made fewer mistakes when it mattered.

I remember my father always talking about close games in terms of which team had the ball last. My concern all night was that if OSU had it with time enough to win the game that their skill players and greater experience in games like this would prevail.

And, ironically, did they not lose exactly this kind of game against Georgia in the playoffs?

Judging teams by how well they play against the best competion has alwasy seemed to me a useful barometer.

On the losing side, the worst teams can't compete at all; the next group can be competitive up to a point; and the most capable, can't win the close ones.

On the winning side, you have teams that DO win the close ones as with many of Holtz's teams; ones that either outclass or grind down a fighting but overmatched opponent; and those that simply take it to another level of excellence as Alabama did with ND in 2012.

Overall, I'd say that ND still loses too many TOO CLOSE TO CALL games -- that it hasn't cleared that hump. Can it, within ND's academics-first framework? I don't know. But I can't imagine losing a closer WELL-PLAYED game to a good team than what we witnessed last night.

It was almost LITERALLY as close to winning a game as you can get without actually winning it.

Let's hope it's a sign of ENDURING PROGRESS rather than just a TEMPORARY HIGHWATER MARK as Weis's 2005 effort against USC turned out as.

 

[banmate6]

t

Guarded sounds like the right word. To me, it's a word for ALL SEASONS.

The point I want to stress is that a young coach, a committed team and a sense of enthuiasm can all BODE VERY WELL.

While it did for Ara, though, IT DID NOT FOR BRENNAN who was the much celebrated young ND coach of MY YOUTH.

And I -- and others at the time -- watched him fail as a result of inexperience, slightly less talent, murderous schedules and having to operate within ND's more RAREFIED context.

Freeman, SO FAR, is alreday NOT Ara. I just hope he doesn't become Brennan. But even if Freeman does succeed and, particularly, if he doesn't, ND COULD LOSE MORE OF THESE HEARTBREAKERS. And it's often part of the LEARNING CURVE faced by a young, inexperienced coach. And part of the price for that, we all paid last night.

Four of Freeman's six losses have been WINNABLE GAMES. ND wasn't going to beat OSU last year or USC, but the other four have either been HEARTBREAKERS or HEAD-SCRATCHERS.

My concern is that it's entirely PLAUSIBLE for that scenario to continue. NOT saying it will, but it's conceivalbe which is why I, TOO, remain GUARDED.

Freeman is learning for sure, but I see it in a positive context differentiating last year vs this year.

Last year Freeman suffered Stanford, Marshall, and Oklahoma State losses he should't have. I see it as a progressive learning curve. Cutting Freedom some slack last year due to what I attribute as the legacy of CBK.

This year Freeman decisively wins games he should. As discussed, ND got a bit unlucky to lose Ohio State. But I really believe CBK would have laid a total egg in this one.

I am indeed guarded. Academically if nothing else. Also to better deal with the let down if it doesn't happen.

But man, I REALLY feel the worm is turning. Again, the irony for me is that the new normal of NIL and transfers might be a more even distribution of talent...maybe preventing stacks like Alabama and Ohio State achieved for some time. Things are more fluid, where ND land a key transfer like Hartman for disproportional impact, transfer quality over quantity...as ND can't do the quantity thing.

Fingers crossed.

 

[banmate6]

To be clear, I'm not being CRITICAL of ND. But I AM looking CRITICALLY at what happened.

"Mostly played better" doesn't matter if you lose. And if you MOSTLY DON'T PLAY BETTER DOWN THE STRETCH in a tight ballgame, YOU MOSTLY LOSE.

And for a DB to muff a pick down the stretch exemplifies BOTH POINTS.

Not playing well at CRITICAL JUNCTURES can nullify a lot of HEART and BETTER PLAY at other times. When OSU absolutey HAD TO MAKE PLAYS it did. ND DIDN'T.

To me, it felt like a prize fight. While ND BOXED BRILLIANTLY, there was always that sense that OSU was the HARDER PUNCHER and could take command of the game at any point and KNOCK ND OUT, but to ND's credit, that DIDN'T HAPPEN. Meaning that ND is at least THAT GOOD.

Yet, in the last round, OSU landed just enough HARD PUNCHES to come away with a split decision.

Another important CRITICAL JUNCTURE win for OSU was the almost UNCONTESTED TD run by Henderson which to go back to the boxing analogy, was a CLEAR KNOCKDOWN and just as important to the outcome as the winning TD. And it came on the VERY NEXT PLAY after ND failed to convert on FOURTH DOWN.

Neither play was an example of ND being the better team.

OSU experienced NUMEROUS FAILURES as well. But in the end, they got it done. I'd rather admit that and feel the pain of it than argue that ND was still somehow the "BETTER TEAM."

It was an extremely CLEAN FIGHT that ND lost by a whisker. Now, on to Duke.

Not a bad analogy with the puncher vs boxer.



See, I think ND was both the harder puncher and better boxer.

But the corner told ND to stop landing guy shots that suddenly were working...letting OSU throw the punches while playing dope a rope.

🤔

I'm not one for moral victories. Bot there are times when a team is indeed better but snaps victory from the jaws of defeat. I feel this is one of those games...and the only 1 in such a game I remember since Holtz!

 

[Patrirish]

Freeman is learning for sure, but I see it in a positive context differentiating last year vs this year.

Last year Freeman suffered Stanford, Marshall, and Oklahoma State losses he should't have. I see it as a progressive learning curve. Cutting Freedom some slack last year due to what I attribute as the legacy of CBK.

This year Freeman decisively wins games he should. As discussed, ND got a bit unlucky to lose Ohio State. But I really believe CBK would have laid a total egg in this one.

I am indeed guarded. Academically if nothing else. Also to better deal with the let down if it doesn't happen.

But man, I REALLY feel the worm is turning. Again, the irony for me is that the new normal of NIL and transfers might be a more even distribution of talent...maybe preventing stacks like Alabama and Ohio State achieved for some time. Things are more fluid, where ND land a key transfer like Hartman for disproportional impact, transfer quality over quantity...as ND can't do the quantity thing.

Fingers crossed.

Those errors were “Football 101” and blowing those plays not once but twice can’t be excused by claiming that he’s just learning.

 

[4-4-3]

Just curious what was Ryan Day’s head coach stops prior to talking over Ohio st ?

He was the INTERIM coach there when Meyer was placed on administrative leave in 2018 and became full time coach in 2019. Before that he was never a head coach.

But he has more experience than Freeman, my point in my post being that Freeman is still relatively GREEN.

Day, on the other hand, has been head coaching since 2018 and has had MAJOR SUCCESS. He's been to the playoffs, won two conference titles and a division conference title.

I never cited Freeman's never having been a head coach as the issue, merely his RELATIVE INEXPERIENCE. Though, to be honest, even though both of them are in their first stints as head coaches, it may be more of a challenge for Freeman as Day may simply be a better coach AND/OR operating under more OPTIMAL conditions at OSU.

But that wasn't my focus but rather that Freeman is still pretty much a "ROOKIE." And the way the game was handled by ND down the stretch, it SURE LOOKED LIKE IT.

 

[ticat]

That's a "...good life lesson?" LMAO.

Read it again...

 

[4-4-3]

Freeman is learning for sure, but I see it in a positive context differentiating last year vs this year.

Last year Freeman suffered Stanford, Marshall, and Oklahoma State losses he should't have. I see it as a progressive learning curve. Cutting Freedom some slack last year due to what I attribute as the legacy of CBK.

This year Freeman decisively wins games he should. As discussed, ND got a bit unlucky to lose Ohio State. But I really believe CBK would have laid a total egg in this one.

I am indeed guarded. Academically if nothing else. Also to better deal with the let down if it doesn't happen.

But man, I REALLY feel the worm is turning. Again, the irony for me is that the new normal of NIL and transfers might be a more even distribution of talent...maybe preventing stacks like Alabama and Ohio State achieved for some time. Things are more fluid, where ND land a key transfer like Hartman for disproportional impact, transfer quality over quantity...as ND can't do the quantity thing.

Fingers crossed.

It's a defensible mindset, and your thesis is PLAUSIBLE. Will it happen? No way to know.

Year three, though, may tell a lot -- assuming this year doesn't.

ND coaches who made it in year three -- and I think it's BARRING NONE -- did well. Those who didn't -- and, again, I think it's barring none -- DIDN'T.

By then, it seems, you have your systems in place and mostly your own players.

We'll see.

 

[ticat]

Those errors were “Football 101” and blowing those plays not once but twice can’t be excused by claiming that he’s just learning.

Than what is the "reason" for blowing those plays?

 

[4-4-3]

Not a bad analogy with the puncher vs boxer.



See, I think ND was both the harder puncher and better boxer.

But the corner told ND to stop landing guy shots that suddenly were working...letting OSU throw the punches while playing dope a rope.

🤔

I'm not one for moral victories. Bot there are times when a team is indeed better but snaps victory from the jaws of defeat. I feel this is one of those games...and the only 1 in such a game I remember since Holtz!

Well if ND was the harder puncher, why didn't it throw some? No chunk plays. No knockdowns. All jabs and footwork with a painstakingly little by little offense that had to box its way for every inch.

And then if you look at QB arm strength and just plain physicality, McCord was the puncher and Hartman the finesse boxer. But when the puncher had to land the critical punches, he did it whereas the boxer never was able to rock OSU's defense. It was all little by little and whittle by whittle.

Hartman is good, but the premier BOXING QB in CFB today is probably BO NIX. He has everything Hartman has but in greater supply. Would love to see OSU go against THAT boxer and that Oregon team that embarrassed Sanders yesterday.

 

[Patrirish]

Than what is the "reason" for blowing those plays?

inattentiveness and incompetence !

 

[banmate6]

Those errors were “Football 101” and blowing those plays not once but twice can’t be excused by claiming that he’s just learning.

Come on, year 1.



Cut Freeman some slack.

 

[banmate6]

Well if ND was the harder puncher, why didn't it throw some? No chunk plays. No knockdowns. All jabs and footwork with a painstakingly little by little offense that had to box its way for every inch.

And then if you look at QB arm strength and just plain physicality, McCord was the puncher and Hartman the finesse boxer. But when the puncher had to land the critical punches, he did it whereas the boxer never was able to rock OSU's defense. It was all little by little and whittle by whittle.

Hartman is good, but the premier BOXING QB in CFB today is probably BO NIX. He has everything Hartman has but in greater supply. Would love to see OSU go against THAT boxer and that Oregon team that embarrassed Sanders yesterday.

I was thinking the ND ground game with Estimate leading is a kind of hard punch. That last drive should have put it on Estime...not Hartman. That last drive was for me the real window to win the game...like a last round for the Irish where they had the initiative.

BTW: I think Hartman is a very good QB, but agree Bo Nix is better. Hartman has the rest of the season to mesh with ND, so we will see how far he and ND can go....just like what I see so far this whole season.

 

[Patrirish]

Come on, year 1.



Cut Freeman some slack.

Year 2

If it was just one play with only 10 players, maybe, but two plays after a timeout, no, that’s coaching malpractice !

 

[banmate6]

Year 2

If it was just one play with only 10 players, maybe, but two plays after a timeout, no, that’s coaching malpractice !

I thought you were referring to my entire post and year 1.

Anyways, I won't call it malpractice...learning curve and growing pains.

It's still year 2 after all.

 

[Patrirish]

I thought you were referring to my entire post and year 1.

Anyways, I won't call it malpractice...learning curve and growing pains.

It's still year 2 after all.

You don’t hire the HC at ND so that he can learn on the job !

The Gerry Faust model doesn’t work !

 

[4-4-3]

I was thinking the ND ground game with Estimate leading is a kind of hard punch. That last drive should have put it on Estime...not Hartman. That last drive was for me the real window to win the game...like a last round for the Irish where they had the initiative.

BTW: I think Hartman is a very good QB, but agree Bo Nix is better. Hartman has the rest of the season to mesh with ND, so we will see how far he and ND can go....just like what I see so far this whole season.

Estime WAS ND's hardest punch, but it seems they didn't have the confidence to THROW IT when it mattered most. They tried to BOX instead, got fancy and lost the game in that they turned over the ball to OSU at a time when retaining it for another first down or so would have sown things up.

To its credit, OSU had held Estime pretty well in check, and maybe that's what ND was afraid of or a stripped ball type fumble as he's had that happen to him. I'm sorry they just didn't pound it because the odds as I saw them favored OSU buckling at that point in the game.

The entire momentum was with ND, and they basically handed it back to OSU. A team that goes all the way over an entire season makes very few if any of those types of mistakes at crunch time. And it's WHY they go all the way. ND proved at that moment that it isn't (YET?) that team.

 

[tkirish]

Read it again...

He was the INTERIM coach there when Meyer was placed on administrative leave in 2018 and became full time coach in 2019. Before that he was never a head coach.

But he has more experience than Freeman, my point in my post being that Freeman is still relatively GREEN.

Day, on the other hand, has been head coaching since 2018 and has had MAJOR SUCCESS. He's been to the playoffs, won two conference titles and a division conference title.

I never cited Freeman's never having been a head coach as the issue, merely his RELATIVE INEXPERIENCE. Though, to be honest, even though both of them are in their first stints as head coaches, it may be more of a challenge for Freeman as Day may simply be a better coach AND/OR operating under more OPTIMAL conditions at OSU.

But that wasn't my focus but rather that Freeman is still pretty much a "ROOKIE." And the way the game was handled by ND down the stretch, it SURE LOOKED LIKE IT.

Day’s “ major succuss” has a lot to do with the “ major talent “ he has on that team. I agree he is a bit older and has more experience. Without a doubt mistakes were made at the end of that game by Freeman and his staff. Ten players on the field for the final two plays is inexcusable. How did that even happen? I don’t know. I’ll say communication is one reason. But let’s go back to the “ inexperience” part. Bob Davie who was highly regarded and experienced got his first HC at ND. Remember the end of the Purdue game? Time management cost them and he was the HC. My point is it isn’t necessarily because of “ inexperience “ or being a “ rookie” that the game ended like it did. I don’t know the answer. But things like this happen to even experienced coaches. MF isn’t getting a pass from me. He’s the HC and he needs to own it. But there are a lot of things that go on that lead to a moment like that. More than anything preparing for a close end to any game is the key to success during the game. Hopefully he learns and prepares for similar situations that will surely lie ahead,

 

[ivan brunetti]

IMO, ND slightly outplayed Ohio State for 56 minutes. I think OSU is the overall more talented team though.

I don't blame ND's OC for calling a screen pass during your last drive. I think they trusted your SS collecting QB to either A) toss an easy completion to an open receiver, or B) if the pass does not look to be a sure thing, tuck the ball and run for what you can. Hartman chose option C): almost throw an interception and stop the clock. Also, you have to credit Ohio State for their excellent coverage on that play.

The ten men thing is really bad though. No way to rationalize that. The only thing you can say is there is no guarantee that Ohio State wouldn't still have scored vs 11 men.

 

[ticat]

inattentiveness and incompetence !

Exactly...things that can be remedied...

 

[ticat]

You don’t hire the HC at ND so that he can learn on the job !

The Gerry Faust model doesn’t work !

WHO would you have hired? Answer that question? Who will come to Notre Dame?

I was at ND during Gerry Faust...Freeman is NOT Gerry Faust...

 

[tkirish]

One more thing I would like to add to the conversation. Some coaches have a tendency to over think situations. For example, when the Buckeyes needed 1 yard on 4th down deep in ND territory , they ran a jet sweep which gave the defense time to react and stop them short. If your team is so “ tough “ and “ physical “ , why not run right at the defense ? If they make a first down, they most likely score and win without dramatics. The “ experienced” coach in my opinion called a dumb play. No one seems to mention that play. My point is that there are times when the obvious is the way to go. Even the most seasoned coaches make mistakes in play calling and time management. Ask Pete Carrol if he would throw a pass again needing 1 1/2 yards to score with Marshawn Lynch as your running back.

 

[Patrirish]

Exactly...things that can be remedied...

In how long and at what price ?

I’m not so sure that either can be remedied.

Inattentiveness and incompetence are acquired over time, what makes you think that they’re reversible ?

I want MF and ND football to reach the highest level, but I have my doubts.

 

[Patrirish]

WHO would you have hired? Answer that question? Who will come to Notre Dame?

I was at ND during Gerry Faust...Freeman is NOT Gerry Faust...

You missed the point.
in both cases ND hired an individual with no HC experience.
Throw in Davie and Weis.

It’s a quantum leap from being an AC to being the HC and often times the transition fails, as it has at ND all too often.

As to who I would have hired, given how Kelly fooked us, I would have gone the interim coach route for one year and cast my net

Worse case scenario you end up with MF, best case scenario ? We’ll never know !

 

[Patrirish]

One more thing I would like to add to the conversation. Some coaches have a tendency to over think situations. For example, when the Buckeyes needed 1 yard on 4th down deep in ND territory , they ran a jet sweep which gave the defense time to react and stop them short. If your team is so “ tough “ and “ physical “ , why not run right at the defense ? If they make a first down, they most likely score and win without dramatics. The “ experienced” coach in my opinion called a dumb play. No one seems to mention that play. My point is that there are times when the obvious is the way to go. Even the most seasoned coaches make mistakes in play calling and time management. Ask Pete Carrol if he would throw a pass again needing 1 1/2 yards to score with Marshawn Lynch as your running back.

20-20 Hindsight makes even the most uniformed fans geniuses !

 

[tkirish]

20-20 Hindsight makes even the most uniformed fans geniuses !

If you mean me. I would agree. I am as guilty as anyone. But in this case I actually was stunned they ran a jet sweep in that situation. Just my opinion

 

[Chitown11]

Than what is the "reason" for blowing those plays?

An incompetant DC, get rid of this clown

 

[Patrirish]

If you mean me. I would agree. I am as guilty as anyone. But in this case I actually was stunned they ran a jet sweep in that situation. Just my opinion

I’ve never liked jet sweeps on 4th and short and my recollection of them might be flawed, but more seem to fail than succeeed.

As you stated, I think they give the defense too much reaction time

 

[BM16]

IMO, ND slightly outplayed Ohio State for 56 minutes. I think OSU is the overall more talented team though.

I don't blame ND's OC for calling a screen pass during your last drive. I think they trusted your SS collecting QB to either A) toss an easy completion to an open receiver, or B) if the pass does not look to be a sure thing, tuck the ball and run for what you can. Hartman chose option C): almost throw an interception and stop the clock. Also, you have to credit Ohio State for their excellent coverage on that play.

The ten men thing is really bad though. No way to rationalize that. The only thing you can say is there is no guarantee that Ohio State wouldn't still have scored vs 11 men.

That screen pass might honestly have gone for a touchdown if it didn't get batted down at the line. Ohio State didn't have a soul on that side of the field.

 

[ivan brunetti]

That screen pass might honestly have gone for a touchdown if it didn't get batted down at the line. Ohio State didn't have a soul on that side of the field.

Yeah. If Hartman had put some air under the ball, great chance it would have been first down and game over.

College football fans almost NEVER blame the players. Understandable as they are not the ones making millions per year. BUT, as anyone who has ever played will tell you, players know when they haven't played as well as they might. I can't remember ever losing and thinking "we played as well as possible and this loss is all on our coaches". Of course, the ten men on the field is (probably) all on the coaches. But nitpicking this play call or that play call is often times fans desperately trying to find a way to absolve their players.

 

[4-4-3]

Day’s “ major succuss” has a lot to do with the “ major talent “ he has on that team. I agree he is a bit older and has more experience. Without a doubt mistakes were made at the end of that game by Freeman and his staff. Ten players on the field for the final two plays is inexcusable. How did that even happen? I don’t know. I’ll say communication is one reason. But let’s go back to the “ inexperience” part. Bob Davie who was highly regarded and experienced got his first HC at ND. Remember the end of the Purdue game? Time management cost them and he was the HC. My point is it isn’t necessarily because of “ inexperience “ or being a “ rookie” that the game ended like it did. I don’t know the answer. But things like this happen to even experienced coaches. MF isn’t getting a pass from me. He’s the HC and he needs to own it. But there are a lot of things that go on that lead to a moment like that. More than anything preparing for a close end to any game is the key to success during the game. Hopefully he learns and prepares for similar situations that will surely lie ahead,

Fair enough, but if it wasn't his inexperience, then what was it? To call it inexperience may actually even be KIND. Which is what I've done. The other options all point to disorganization of some sort, incompetence or the moment being TOO BIG to think straight.

I'm not arguing any of those things, specifically. That's why I chose the UMBRELLA term, INEXPERIENCE.

And I'm sticking by it.

 

[tkirish]

Fair enough, but if it wasn't his inexperience then what was it? To call it inexperience may actually even be KIND. Which is what I've done. The other options all point to disorganization of some sort, incompetence or the moment being TOO BIG to think straight.

I'm not arguing any of those things, specifically. That's why I chose the UMBRELLA term, INEXPERIENCE.

And I'm sticking by it.

Your point is logical as “Mr. Spock” would say. I would say there was some communication issues on who goes in or out. If that is what you mean by inexperienced, I agree. Either way it was bad and should never happen, especially with the game hanging in the balance. Disorganized might be the more accurate term. I saw his presser and the question was asked but not answered completely. Sort of like yeah we had ten players and that’s on me. I wanted to hear “ the ten players happened because we didn’t do ……,,,”. You never got the how or why. Just the acknowledgment it happened. I was a bit disappointed in that particular response.

 

[4-4-3]

Your point is logical as “Mr. Spock” would say. I would say there was some communication issues on who goes in or out. If that is what you mean by inexperienced, I agree. Either way it was bad and should never happen, especially with the game hanging in the balance. Disorganized might be the more accurate term. I saw his presser and the question was asked but not answered completely. Sort of like yeah we had ten players and that’s on me. I wanted to hear “ the ten players happened because we didn’t do ……,,,”. You never got the how or why. Just the acknowledgment it happened. I was a bit disappointed in that particular response.

I take your points.

What I didn't like was his once again talking about the need for the coaching to get better. To me, it indicated that he's still trying to work out his COACHING IDENTITY.

It's one thing to take responsibility but another to keep admitting outright to being DEFICIENT. This is not a good look for a head coach and to me indicates a degree of awareness of his own shortcomings and vulnerability. And, frankly, it's CONCERNING.

And to tie it back to my original point, those sentiments are often a hallmark of INEXPERIENCE. There's still a part of ME that feels that this guy himself isn't quite sure of his FOOTING. And that he's actually COMMUNICATING it to us.

To be fair, though, I do give Freeman credit for admitting that his team didn't perform well AT CRITICAL JUNCTURES. And for that, I give OSU more credit than do I criticize ND. That was NOT a chump opponent out there.

 

[tkirish]

I take your points.

What I didn't like was his once again talking about the need for the coaching to get better. To me, it indicated that he's still trying to work out his COACHING IDENTITY.

It's one thing to take responsibility but another to keep admitting outright to being DEFICIENT. This is not a good look for a head coach and to me indicates a degree of awareness of his own shortcomings and vulnerability. And, frankly, it's CONCERNING.

And to tie it back to my original point, those sentiments are often a hallmark of INEXPERIENCE. There's still a part of ME that feels that this guy himself isn't quite sure of his FOOTING. And that he's actually COMMUNICATING it to us.

To be fair, though, I do give Freeman credit for admitting that his team didn't perform well AT CRITICAL JUNCTURES. And for that, I give OSU more credit than do I criticize ND. That was NOT a chump opponent out there.

These next three games will be a very good barometer on how this team responds and how the head coach leads.

 

[Patrirish]

I take your points.

What I didn't like was his once again talking about the need for the coaching to get better. To me, it indicated that he's still trying to work out his COACHING IDENTITY.

It's one thing to take responsibility but another to keep admitting outright to being DEFICIENT. This is not a good look for a head coach and to me indicates a degree of awareness of his own shortcomings and vulnerability. And, frankly, it's CONCERNING.

And to tie it back to my original point, those sentiments are often a hallmark of INEXPERIENCE. There's still a part of ME that feels that this guy himself isn't quite sure of his FOOTING. And that he's actually COMMUNICATING it to us.

To be fair, though, I do give Freeman credit for admitting that his team didn't perform well AT CRITICAL JUNCTURES. And for that, I give OSU more credit than do I criticize ND. That was NOT a chump opponent out there.

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