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High talent Recruiting still Avoids ND

"The beauty of Marcus Freeman is his having a plan . . . . "

What IS this Marcus Freeman plan I'm constantly reading about? Has anyone seen it? Is it substantively different from other coaching "plans?" Or do other coaches NOT have them? Did Brian Kelly not have a plan? Does he not have a NEW ONE at LSU given that coaching there is much different than at ND?

I'd sure LOVE TO SEE the Marcus Freeman PLAN and what SO DISTINGUISHES IT. Is it a RECRUITING PLAN? Yes, he's getting excellent players, but Kelly recruited Michael Mayer, Will Fuller, great offensive lines, Book, Josh Adams, Tranquil and many, many more. Was he working WITHOUT A PLAN?

It was once generally believed that there was a HOLY GRAIL. It was allegedly offered to the Arthurian knight, Percival, who screwed up and turned it down. Might it have contained Marcus Freeman's PLAN?

If not, WHERE IS IT?
You didn't see Battlestar Galactica ;The Plan? It was basically stand-up Cavill[Kelly].

No seriously, BK focused on the right kinda guys which meant competent players who would not cause the drama he experienced in the early years with names like Aaron Lynch and Vanderdoesn't, Greenbarely. So he became known as the 3 Star General. Recruiting news was often a bit cold as we kept hearing about the 'high three star' with lots of "intangibles."

Freeman so far is none of that. He is spending time and resources on the local beauties and winning some reported to be 'high four star.' While most of us didn't think it was grounds to run BK out of town we are enjoying the change of environment so far.
 
ND

LB #3 Jaylen Sneed
LB #4 Jaiden Ausberry*
LB #6 Drayk Bowen
LB #9 Josh Burnham
LB #15 Niuafe Tuihalamaka
LB #29 Nolan Ziegler
LB #37 Preston Zinter

Georgia

LB #2 Troy Bowles
LB #4 Jalon Walker
LB #5 Raylen Wilson
LB #10 CJ Allen
LB #11 CJ Washington
LB #48 EJ Lightsey
 
Peyton Bowen is a 5.9 4-Star on Rivals, and his junior in HS brother, Eli, is very interested in Notre Dame.
 
Bama circles are saying Keeley might flip this week. If he and Bowen ditch this class is destroyed. And if that happens, the OP is spot on. If Freeman can’t land top guys and BK ditches us, it’s demoralizing. Let’s hope we can close. Long ways until December.
 
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Bama circles are saying Keeley might flip this week. If he and Bowen ditch this class is destroyed. And if that happens, the OP is spot on. If Freeman can’t land top guys and BK ditches us, it’s demoralizing. Let’s hope we can close. Long ways until December.
Master of Panic
 
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Bama circles are saying Keeley might flip this week. If he and Bowen ditch this class is destroyed. And if that happens, the OP is spot on. If Freeman can’t land top guys and BK ditches us, it’s demoralizing. Let’s hope we can close. Long ways until December.
Destroyed ? C'mon man.
 
Destroyed ? C'mon man.

It would finish in the 10 range without them. If not a top 5 class, all we have is a rookie coach. Some are saying Bama just got their NIL sorted and they’re throwing millions around like pennys. Expect flips galore and their greatest class of all time.
 
Bama circles are saying Keeley might flip this week. If he and Bowen ditch this class is destroyed. And if that happens, the OP is spot on. If Freeman can’t land top guys and BK ditches us, it’s demoralizing. Let’s hope we can close. Long ways until December.
Laugh it up. Won’t be funny if it happens. Lot of chatter.
It would finish in the 10 range without them. If not a top 5 class, all we have is a rookie coach. Some are saying Bama just got their NIL sorted and they’re throwing millions around like pennys. Expect flips galore and their greatest class of all time.
Quite a day.
 
It would finish in the 10 range without them. If not a top 5 class, all we have is a rookie coach. Some are saying Bama just got their NIL sorted and they’re throwing millions around like pennys. Expect flips galore and their greatest class of all time.
That is what I suspect. This week Bama got a top QB and a RB who was considered a UGA lean.
 
I think his plan is to out recruit every previous coach at ND since Lou and hire elite assistant coaches across the board like AG and HH that can develop talent. Then try and build a culture of family and competitiveness. How that plays out on the field is anyones guess. He’s raw, but he has that Dabo charisma to him while having played at an elite level himself, which is an underrated quality imo. Assistant coaches and recruiting is where championships are made. A HC has to manage the culture.
Okay, that makes sense as an interpretation based on anecdotal evidence.

But is this "plan" so strikingly different -- in general terms -- from what ANY COACH would ASPIRE TO? To me, it sounds like standard features of a COACH'S JOB DESCRIPTION. I would argue that any coach who is NOT trying to do these things should be FIRED unless he somehow keeps winning in spite of it.

A key point you make is that WE DON"T KNOW WHETHER OR NOT FREEMAN'S "PLAN" WILL WORK. And that's because the CRITICAL VARIABLE -- the X's and O's, something you didn't include in your take -- is still the GREAT UNKNOWN.

But then, interestingly, you shift to a) his charisma as an antidote to his rawness and b) his having played at an elite level to suggest what -- actually? Not, I would imagine, evidence of his X'S and O's prowess. Right? Because the two aren't NECESSARILY related.

Yet, that's PRECISELY the GIDDY LEAP some make EVEN AFTER ACKNOWLEDGING FREEMAN'S INEXPERIENCE. "YES," they say, "HE'S INEXPERIENCED, BUT . . . ." Which just doesn't play for me, having known my share of young charismatic "stars," only some of whom matured into "OLD CHINA HANDS." That is, someone with SAVVY you can trust.

My other observation is that being a head coach entails more than JUST MANAGING A CULTURE. Ideally, you're also THE SMARTEST GUY IN THE ROOM -- or at least the WISEST or the ONE MOST ABLE to UTILIZE the person who is. Plus, you're the ULTIMATE DECISION MAKER. And it's IN THESE AREAS ONE IS MORE LIKELY TO SUCCEED OR FAIL.

This is why I'm HOLDING MY FIRE with Freeman, and why I sense that some are CONFLATING some transformative UBER-PLAN of his with HIS OBVIOUS CENTRAL CASTING APPEAL where a) charisma beats experience and b) selling recruits while hiring the "right" people TO DO THE ACTUAL WORK is all that it takes to ASSURE the necessary X and O execution.

When in fact, nothing could be FURTHER FROM THE TRUTH.
 
Scouts rank prospects based on in-person evaluations at camps, combines, workouts and 7on7 events that take place regularly throughout the spring and summer.

Prospects ratings change overtime as more info comes in on the player (senior season film also has a big impact as we get closer to NSD).

Every fan base in college football thinks every scouting service is biased against their team, except for fans of teams that are dominating the sport and winning national titles.
Sure they do. And they see maybe MAAYBE a third of the actual players they rank in person.
 
You didn't see Battlestar Galactica ;The Plan? It was basically stand-up Cavill[Kelly].

No seriously, BK focused on the right kinda guys which meant competent players who would not cause the drama he experienced in the early years with names like Aaron Lynch and Vanderdoesn't, Greenbarely. So he became known as the 3 Star General. Recruiting news was often a bit cold as we kept hearing about the 'high three star' with lots of "intangibles."

Freeman so far is none of that. He is spending time and resources on the local beauties and winning some reported to be 'high four star.' While most of us didn't think it was grounds to run BK out of town we are enjoying the change of environment so far.
Okay, so that's the recruiting component. And I get that. Plus, I get the "good assistant coaches" argument, bearing in mind, though, that the REALLY GOOD ONES usually leave pretty quickly unless they're old OL guys.

But is there more? Recruiting and hiring assistants ISN'T EVERYTHING.

Frankly, I DOUBT THERE IS MORE -- at least "PLAN-WISE" other than bringing the entire staff's acumen and experience to bear on WINNING FOOTBALL GAMES. And that's something ALL head coaches must do. And do SUCCESSFULLY.

For example, I don't expect ND to role out some REVOLUTIONARY OFFENSE OR DEFENSE. No new Rockne shift or single wing equivalent. Most others probably don't either.

Yet, I DO GET THE IMPRESSION that some feel that Freeman CAN'T HELP BUT SUCCEED at the X's and O's SIMPLY ON THE BASIS OF HIS PERFORMANCE RECRUITING AND HIRING COACHES.

And that's where I part company as I don't see any NECESSARY CONNECTION given both a) common sense and b) Faust's and Weis's experience.

Until I see evidence to the contrary, I'm not discounting the POSSIBILITY that people are READING MORE INTO FREEMAN THAN MAY BE THERE. Seems to me, there's every reason for a HEDGED POSITION.
 
Okay, so that's the recruiting component. And I get that. Plus, I get the "good assistant coaches" argument, bearing in mind, though, that the REALLY GOOD ONES usually leave pretty quickly unless they're old OL guys.

But is there more? Recruiting and hiring assistants ISN'T EVERYTHING.

Frankly, I DOUBT THERE IS MORE -- at least "PLAN-WISE" other than bringing the entire staff's acumen and experience to bear on WINNING FOOTBALL GAMES. And that's something ALL head coaches must do. And do SUCCESSFULLY.

For example, I don't expect ND to role out some REVOLUTIONARY OFFENSE OR DEFENSE. No new Rockne shift or single wing equivalent. Most others probably don't either.

Yet, I DO GET THE IMPRESSION that some feel that Freeman CAN'T HELP BUT SUCCEED at the X's and O's SIMPLY ON THE BASIS OF HIS PERFORMANCE RECRUITING AND HIRING COACHES.

And that's where I part company as I don't see any NECESSARY CONNECTION given both a) common sense and b) Faust's and Weis's experience.

Until I see evidence to the contrary, I'm not discounting the POSSIBILITY that people are READING MORE INTO FREEMAN THAN MAY BE THERE. Seems to me, there's every reason for a HEDGED POSITION.
Do you ever have anything positive to say regarding any aspect of Notre Dame Football? Ever?

Your regurgitating act is bullshit.
 
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Okay, so that's the recruiting component. And I get that. Plus, I get the "good assistant coaches" argument, bearing in mind, though, that the REALLY GOOD ONES usually leave pretty quickly unless they're old OL guys.

But is there more? Recruiting and hiring assistants ISN'T EVERYTHING.

Frankly, I DOUBT THERE IS MORE -- at least "PLAN-WISE" other than bringing the entire staff's acumen and experience to bear on WINNING FOOTBALL GAMES. And that's something ALL head coaches must do. And do SUCCESSFULLY.

For example, I don't expect ND to role out some REVOLUTIONARY OFFENSE OR DEFENSE. No new Rockne shift or single wing equivalent. Most others probably don't either.

Yet, I DO GET THE IMPRESSION that some feel that Freeman CAN'T HELP BUT SUCCEED at the X's and O's SIMPLY ON THE BASIS OF HIS PERFORMANCE RECRUITING AND HIRING COACHES.

And that's where I part company as I don't see any NECESSARY CONNECTION given both a) common sense and b) Faust's and Weis's experience.

Until I see evidence to the contrary, I'm not discounting the POSSIBILITY that people are READING MORE INTO FREEMAN THAN MAY BE THERE. Seems to me, there's every reason for a HEDGED POSITION.

If he doesn’t land a top 5 class year in and year out, I’m not sure why he was hired. It’s not due to his coaching experience. That’s the plan.
 
Okay, so that's the recruiting component. And I get that. Plus, I get the "good assistant coaches" argument, bearing in mind, though, that the REALLY GOOD ONES usually leave pretty quickly unless they're old OL guys.

But is there more? Recruiting and hiring assistants ISN'T EVERYTHING.

Frankly, I DOUBT THERE IS MORE -- at least "PLAN-WISE" other than bringing the entire staff's acumen and experience to bear on WINNING FOOTBALL GAMES. And that's something ALL head coaches must do. And do SUCCESSFULLY.

For example, I don't expect ND to role out some REVOLUTIONARY OFFENSE OR DEFENSE. No new Rockne shift or single wing equivalent. Most others probably don't either.

Yet, I DO GET THE IMPRESSION that some feel that Freeman CAN'T HELP BUT SUCCEED at the X's and O's SIMPLY ON THE BASIS OF HIS PERFORMANCE RECRUITING AND HIRING COACHES.

And that's where I part company as I don't see any NECESSARY CONNECTION given both a) common sense and b) Faust's and Weis's experience.

Until I see evidence to the contrary, I'm no discounting the POSSIBILITY that people are READING MORE INTO FREEMAN THAN MAY BE THERE. Seems to me, there's every reason for a HEDGED POSITION.
Here he goes again
 
If he doesn’t land a top 5 class year in and year out, I’m not sure why he was hired. It’s not due to his coaching experience. That’s the plan.
Dabo
Stoops
Day
Kirby
Riley
Shaw
Fickell

If Jack think he's the right fit, then you hire him. If you got IT, then you have it. Regardless of experience
 
I don't get this. ND has the number 0ne call and more importantly has a h9igh average recruit score (number one rating can be made up of a large number of decent players) I yes things could change but you guys are rolling now.
 
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I don't get this. ND has the number 0ne call and more importantly has a h9igh average recruit score (number one rating can be made up of a large number of decent players) I yes things could change but you guys are rolling now.
It's just the nature of the beast - some fans are going to complain no matter what. ND is recruiting - step for step - with the big-time recruiting programs - Alabama, Georgia and OSU, The main goal - IMHO - is a final 247 Composite of 300+ with at least 22 recruits and ND should have no problem getting there. A few 300+ classes in a row is NC type talent.
 
It's just the nature of the beast - some fans are going to complain no matter what. ND is recruiting - step for step - with the big-time recruiting programs - Alabama, Georgia and OSU, The main goal - IMHO - is a final 247 Composite of 300+ with at least 22 recruits and ND should have no problem getting there. A few 300+ classes in a row is NC type talent.
Alabama signed 29 Top 100 kids in 2021 and 2022. Notre Dame will end up with around 8 in 2023.
 
Yes, and frankly, I don’t expect Marcus Freeman to out recruit an Alabama on an annual basis. Or Ohio State for that matter.

There is no "we can't recruit like 'Bama, OSU, etc. buuuut....." you gotta beat them head to head on the trail first and then you can compete with them on the field.
 
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elite? any class probably has 10-20 high probability to dominate players that go to maybe 5-8 teams. After that it is a best guess scenario as to who is the next group of elites. Those are distributed to maybe 20 teams. Years 2-3 before anyone really can determine who was the actual elites of the class. So it comes down to the players 20-250 as to rating a class. (I made all this up)
 
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