High talent Recruiting still Avoids ND
- Thread starter theskibro
- Start date
Well Ski, as You note, our recruiting success under Freeman has taken a huge movement in the right direction. What stands out to me are the number of top end recruits visiting ND and referencing the lifetime advantages of a degree from ND. This staff are shooting holes in the oft stated excuse that top end recruits are only interested in a path To the NFL, and thus not ND candidates. This shopping down a different aisle seems to Be increasingly a blurred line of distinction. And we’re seeing the benefit of this with the commits We are getting. Exciting and encouraging.
That said, yes we’re missing out on some of the most skilled high end targets. The number Of 5* can’t miss difference makers is by Definition a small elite few, and you almost have to evaluate each miss individually, rather than arrive at a blanket conclusion. So many damn variables at play, from NIL to location to size and culture of the schools to proximity to home to childhood favorites, etc…. I personally think the one factor that will Tip the balance in our favor and land us four or five of these annual targets is performing well on the big stage and WINNING high profile games, and proving we can compete for a National Championship. Under Kelly, we won the games we were supposed to win, and we got to play at the highest level of competition; but we mostly fell flat and largely looked non competitive in these games. These elite players want to win a NC during their college careers, and the Ones committing to ND believe the program is changing for the better and we are trending towards this. If Freeman and his staff prove to coach as well as they recruit, we will start winning our share of these high profile games and we’ll be legitimately knocking on the NC door. Then we can start bitching about ONLY getting five or so 5* commits annually! I look forward to that day.
Sadly the divas make up a large proportion of the 5 stars and those we will not get and frankly do not want.
So many now are completely fixated on the NFL and could care less, really if their college team wins a NC.
If you want more Carnell Tate’s in South Bend, significantly lower the academic expectations. Be like Ohio St.
Make taking school seriously an option, not a requirement like Notre Dame does. Make the path to the NFL far easier and more 5-Stars would consider South Bend.
You asked what do other schools do that Notre Dame doesn’t. This isn’t Rocket Science.
Notre Dame indeed “...shops down a different aisle.”
Brian Kelly was correct.
Yeah like you know something. anything. Like your steadfast prediction on Dante Gomorregon
“If you want more Carnell Tate’s in South Bend, significantly lower the academic expectations. Be like Ohio St.”
well that might have been a factor. And I think it was. But Tate is. Good student and said he valued education. Obviously not that much. I think you are on to something tho. Even tho the 5 stars we r targeting value education - it’s another thing to live it every day for 3-4 years.
Excellent points. Whereas Brian Kelly saw ND's academics rigors as a burden to recruiting, Marcus Freeman sees them as an opportunity. Instead of running away from them, MF has embraced them. I only wish I was sanguine enough to know that will be a winning strategy, but I love MF's high energy and enthusiasm and how he has jumped in with both feet. The more articles I read about MF, and how he has won over recruits, former players, and alumni with his down to earth qualities and genuine humility, the more impressed I am. When I think about the fortuity of the events that led to his hiring, I cannot believe how lucky we are. Obviously the real litmus test will be wins on the field, but thus far MF is hitting all the right notes on the other aspects of the head coaching position.
Moore decided to go to Oregon. Yeah that stinks for ND. But as I have stated many times , it ain’t official until it signed , sealed and delivered. That goes for NDs verbals as well. So you keep on recruiting and recruiting. I still think they will get a very good QB this cycle. Freeman doesn’t seem the type to just throw up his hands and give up. Plenty of time left. As far as not getting top talent. I’m not buying that. One thing they did get if they stick is 2 really fast players. Elite speed. Gray and the Bell. Speed they haven’t had in a long time. Give it time. I think we will all be very happy in a couple years.
The top top talent only care about their NFL prospects and aren't the least bit interested in going to class.
Not all, but certainly the vast majority of 5-Stars are most interested in the easiest past to the NFL. Notre Dame does not And will not ever provide that. ND indeed shops down a different aisle.
Meanwhile, Ohio St. recruits elite kids well because taking school seriously is an option in Columbus.
Last edited:
Yes TelX. Winning! As always, you take my post n thoughts and take it up multiple notches. Lou won n they came
This is such a tired argument and can't be further from the truth.
https://www.si.com/college/2022/06/16/ohio-state-reveals-academic-progress-rate-score#:~:text=The%20school%20released%20its%20academic,score%20in%20the%20program's%20history.
If guys like Carnell Tate and Dante Moore committed to Notre Dame, you would welcome them with open arms and celebrate their commitments. But instead they choose to go elsewhere and you take the superior academics BS route.
You can’t spell APR, so don’t try to explain it. Urbie had a great system for over reporting it
Ski, your OP’s are provocative and generate interests and some great discussion, along with the usual derisive commentary. Keep them coming! Not a baseball fan, so summer is a dead period for my sports interests, and always enjoy the build up to a coming ND football season. Can’t wait for Fall practice and evolving answers on our starting OL, defensive backs, etc….
Imagine complaining about a recruiting class that's ranked number one in the country. This class (assuming they close with a few more stars at key positions starting with Greathouse) will be good enough to win a national title assuming good development and coaching which is always going to be needed at this level.
Some of you look for things to complain about that aren't even there. At least let Freeman lose a game before you start bitching. Again, he has the number one recruiting class in the country right now in his first year. Quit bitching.
Some of you look for things to complain about that aren't even there. At least let Freeman lose a game before you start bitching. Again, he has the number one recruiting class in the country right now in his first year. Quit bitching.
What a loser's post and ending it with "Brian Kelly was correct," as if Freeman hasn't already put that bullshit that Kelly's spewed for years everytime he got prison banged in a big game to bed is asinine as well.
Kelly was a lazy recruiter that relied on others and the Notre Dame brand to do his recruiting for him. He developed zero relationships on the recruiting trail in his 10+ years here. This is already happening at LSU as well and it will only get worse once everyone sees how scared he looks in big games.
Kelly can fvck right off.
Freeman is recruiting well. Had it not been for the NIL era, he would've had a 5 star QB too. I would like to see him close well and flip a kid or two down the stretch. A top 5 class would prove he's changing the narrative. Has to hold onto Bowen. Needs to finish with Greathouse, Hanafin, Ausberry, but that cannot be the only guys left for the class. I think he can do it, but we need a strong finish and to start hearing some news on guys outside the 3 mentioned.
You do realize that Cardale Jones went on to get his Bachelor's degree at OSU and is now very successful. He made that as a young, immature kid so obviously OSU did help him - and his future - a ton.
And granted, OSU is not at the ND level of education, but it is a very good academic institution - as is almost every B1G school. Pick out a rating and you'll find OSU almost always in the top 40 to 60 - in the country - and that's really decent. In fact, almost every conference school can be found in the top 60 to 70. And the recent addition of USC and UCLA only adds additional academic excellence to the conference.
Last edited:
Yes he did graduate with a degree on African American studies …good for him to finish (remember how hallow that course of study was at UNC?)
and is still playing in Canada
S
T
O
P
This different aisle bullshit needs to stop.
It's nothing more than a hollowed excuse.
ND DOES IN FACT lower it's admission standards for athletes.
Yes there are a few kids every year that we can't recruit but a lot of other top programs can't recruit them either.
It's absolutely positively not as bleak as your bullshit excuse portrays.
Let's discuss this without talking about NIL.
Why?
The same type of recruiting sentiment was brought up pointing at many different angles prior to the NIL bullshit.
Different aisle shopping...weather sucks...South Bend isn't a fun town....and so on.
The inTRAnet ... I give you the inTRAnet...(i created the internet not Al Gore) 🤣🤣🤣
What does that have to do with recruiting?
Let me tell ya....
Freeman gets hired and what happens? The room blows up in excitement with the announcement. Kids blow up the internet about how amazing Freeman is and ND will be the greatest place to be playing football. The current players rambling on the Twitter's and snapbook and all that shit.... Recruits see this stuff on the social media platforms.....
(Kids are drawn to excitement, fun, etc. )
They want to be part of this new excitement.
He got a major recruiting boost from this and the staff worked hard as well.
But now....
Now................
Is the time he has to perform starting in Columbus.
He can't just show up and hope.....
No no....
He absolutely positively must show up and coach as if his life depended on it.
Freeman was the nice new toy at Christmas time (literally huh) but now he has to pull the sleeves up and work. Actually coach better than the other guy.
When the shine wanes success breeds recruiting.
The #1 class is nice and that is a real possibility going forward but now he must win. Winning sells itself. You can only be the new exciting young coach for so long but winning can be sold forever.
I'll look at this glass half full as there is no good in losing but things were so bleak under Brian Kelly in big games he's already achieved more than Brian Kelly just by being competitive in a major bowl/playoff setting. Sonething Kelly has yet to do. Be competitive in a major bowl/playoff.
So Freeman is already a leg up but he must start winning the big moments. Slaying the dragon to become the dragon.
We shall see!!!!
This wins the stupidest post of the day award. Basically going after a lot of the same kids, so ND classes won’t transfer either!! Just a jealousy post and you come off as an arrogant jerk.
Until people realize that star ratings are not always reliable they will continue to obsess.
1. Recruiting services do NOT have the budget or time to scout all the upcoming prep players
2. Ratings are largely impacted by reports generated at recruiting camps, 7 on 7, and offer lists, WITHOUT ever having seen the player live or watched their film
3. When players commit early and stop generating clicks because they aren't going to camps or looking at other schools they drop FOR NO REASON other than the ratings services are paying more attention to the uncommitted recruits that are going to generate more revenue for their service.
4. Schools that offer three stars or below after seeing the recruit in person, are trying to get ahead of the curve. Recruiting sites are incredibly reactive. A kid could have hit a Growth spurt, improves technically, etc since last reviewed. Just because 247 rated a guy a three star 5 months ago doesnt mean he's a three star after attending a camp where he's grown an inch and put on 20 lbs of muscle.
Stop bitching about stars. They are at times an indicator of expected success nothing more.
1. Recruiting services do NOT have the budget or time to scout all the upcoming prep players
2. Ratings are largely impacted by reports generated at recruiting camps, 7 on 7, and offer lists, WITHOUT ever having seen the player live or watched their film
3. When players commit early and stop generating clicks because they aren't going to camps or looking at other schools they drop FOR NO REASON other than the ratings services are paying more attention to the uncommitted recruits that are going to generate more revenue for their service.
4. Schools that offer three stars or below after seeing the recruit in person, are trying to get ahead of the curve. Recruiting sites are incredibly reactive. A kid could have hit a Growth spurt, improves technically, etc since last reviewed. Just because 247 rated a guy a three star 5 months ago doesnt mean he's a three star after attending a camp where he's grown an inch and put on 20 lbs of muscle.
Stop bitching about stars. They are at times an indicator of expected success nothing more.
While I agree that not every 5 star will pan out and be a star and - vice versa - some 3 stars will make it big, I have to argue that stars do matter when looking at an entire recruiting class and trying to determine - based on stars and rankings - how that school will do in the future.
Here's a CF roster talent ranking - based on their past recruiting rankings - prior the start of the 2021 season. Take a look at who the first 6 teams are. They've basically dominated the CF NC, Playoff and as conference champions since 2014.
2021 College Football Team Talent Composite
In order to create the most comprehensive Team Recruiting Ranking without any notion of bias, 247Sports Team Recruiting Ranking is solely based on the 247Sports Composite Rating.
247sports.com
Interesting. Basically a roadmap to identify the top 6 teams every year. And how many 5 stars has ND had since 2016? I counted 5-6. Total The top teams have almost that many every year.While I agree that not every 5 star will pan out and be a star and - vice versa - some 3 stars will make it big, I have to argue that stars do matter when looking at an entire recruiting class and trying to determine - based on stars and rankings - how that school will do in the future.
Here's a CF roster talent ranking - based on their past recruiting rankings - prior the start of the 2021 season. Take a look at who the first 6 teams are. They've basically dominated the CF NC, Playoff and as conference champions since 2014.
2021 College Football Team Talent Composite
In order to create the most comprehensive Team Recruiting Ranking without any notion of bias, 247Sports Team Recruiting Ranking is solely based on the 247Sports Composite Rating.
You cant give a guy shit when the kid was A silent commit. I mean I guess you can but it makes you look pretty petty.
