Hartman or Pyne?
- Thread starter clover3ND
- Start date
Oh man, what a question!! I'm tempted to go with the strong sentiment that I feel that this year is not the year for a transfer QB. And this past season was the year for a 2nd straight transfer QB. Otherwise our QB room is going to be too old and experienced, and unless the offense was god-awful, and it most certainly was not god-awful, there'd be no compelling need for a new QB. At least considering all the potential problems that could come with.
But if you're talking Sam Hartman.... I think that's where you make an exception. And you just go with it, if you can get someone that good, and that experienced and rock-solid. So I gotta say, I'm stoked. I hope TB doesn't transfer, but whatever happens happens I suppose....
But if you're talking Sam Hartman.... I think that's where you make an exception. And you just go with it, if you can get someone that good, and that experienced and rock-solid. So I gotta say, I'm stoked. I hope TB doesn't transfer, but whatever happens happens I suppose....
Hands down Hartman … Pyne was a gamer and I commend his performance having been pressed into a job he didn’t win … but he was a serious liability most of the time, bailed out by incredible pass protection, a power running game and the best TE in the history of ND football.
Personally, I just don’t see Hartman as a huge upgrade to Pyne. He’s an upgrade, albeit a minimal one at that.
If I had to chose between the two (Pyne/Hartman) it’s hard not to give the nod to someone who’s been in they system for quite some time and knows the offense. With that said, I’m hoping Buchner takes off in the bowl game and doesn’t turn back.
If I had to chose between the two (Pyne/Hartman) it’s hard not to give the nod to someone who’s been in they system for quite some time and knows the offense. With that said, I’m hoping Buchner takes off in the bowl game and doesn’t turn back.
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Well, Pyne is gone so he's irrelevant. I would hope Buchner can win the job as he has 2 or 3 years of eligibility remaining and still have the highest ceiling. Then Minchey or Carr takes over and we have some years of experienced ND play callers leading the team.
I kinda thought you were favoring Pyne by asking the question. With the exception of walkon Dillingham who was forced to start a few games under Willingham, I’d take every other QB that started a game for ND in my lifetime over DP. I admire his effort and toughness, that’s all the positive I can say about DP. I don’t want to watch a DP-led offense again.
The question was essentially did we upgrade w/ Hartman or was it a lateral move by the staff. Under those conditions, who would you take Pyne or Hartman?
Hartman had a 138 RTG his first year as a starter and was 1-2 against ranked teams. Based on their numbers, I don't see how he is an upgrade over Pyne. Looks to be a lateral move at best.
🤣 Fair enough… however, if push came to shove, I would start Hartman over Pyne because he is a better QB (although marginally). Best man should see the field. However, it would be hard to take the keys away from Pyne had he stuck around.
You don't think the fact that he is surrounded by better players at ND could make any difference ?
You also have to consider that Hartman’s numbers are a little inflated due to the offensive they run at Wake. I agree that when you play on the team w/ less talent than your opponents (which Wake essentially does each weekend), your numbers may not look great— however, once you factor in Wake’s offensive scheme, it kinda balances those two points out.
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Do you know what kind of RB room or WR room WF had when Hartman started his first full year? Did he have a brand new OL coach, how talented/experienced they were? Did he have a new DC with an inexperienced backfield starting?
I do know his QB rating was 138 and Drew's was 155. Hartman won 1 game against ranked teams, Drew won 4, including the #5 team in the country.
It seems to be a lateral move, at best.
I would have to agree w/ you. I hope I’m wrong, but I don’t see much of an upgrade here.
Hartman lost to Clemson, Drew walked off the field that day with a W.
Hartman's lowest QBR was 19. Drew's was 31. Drew had QBR's of 96, 90, and 86. Hartman's best was 82.
Lateral move, at best.
We can and should beat Ohio State. The freshman better be ready to go and getting snaps. Get the Great One on the field.
Better QB play was the only thing that kept us from winning. They are not very good. They’ll get embarrassed in the playoffs.
They have more talent than us. They are still very good and very talented.
Why do you think our QB will be better? They will have the most talented QB on the field next year
We can win but no way can you say should. They will be favored
That’s cool, you’re a Pyne guy. I’m not, and neither are the coaches that watched him every day in practice.
Dilfer walked off the field a super bowl winner. There’s a lot of QBs without a super bowl trophy that I’d take over Dilfer.
Let’s see if we get Hartman and If we do let’s see how it goes.
God damn, look at all these DP haters. He wasn't that bad. But I will totally take Sam Hartman without question.....
At first a didn’t see Hartman as an upgrade. But the more I think about it I’d take him over Pyne. He had great numbers and I doubt he had the supporting cast he would have at ND.
I guess it's possible. But he was fairly prolific all around. Not just those 'mesh' RPO plays, even though he executes those like a master. Hopefully we incorporate some of that into our offense....
Ehhhh. Not so fast. Personally I think Pyne could thrive at Wake Forest. The long mesh and movement of the line enables clear lanes for him to throw into. I'm not sure Hartman moves the needle at QB. His yards per pass average is actually about even with Pyne. Wake takes controlled deep shots down field and Hartman can do that... But he's more a hybrid of Ian book and drew Pyne than I like. His deep ball is not good and he underthrows a lot which results in a bunch of picks which seems to happen in his big games.
You do realize wakes passing attack in 90% 10 yards and shorter right? They take a few deep shots, but Hartman averages 8.1 yards per attempt. He's not throwing it down field often. He's actually a less athletic version of Ian book...but isn't scared to throw down the middle.
More worrisome is he gets in his own head. During a three game losing streak he three 3 picks twice and 1 in the third game. If he throws three pics under tommy he's going to the bench.
I admired DP but he was very limited
Anyone not realizing Hartman is a much more talented QB is a true idiot
But then looking in this thread only the morons disagree with that
Those saying Hartman is only a marginal improvement have shown that they failed Football 101
Multiple times
Multiple times
