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Freeman is a message board hire

This is a fun topic, taking some time from my day job.

🙂

I reduce the Freeman hire down to:
  • No top head coach being available now.
  • The need to establish stability, given a playoff opportunity and the recruiting class.
  • Key staff staying on and not bolting or following CBK.
  • Confidence in the potential of Freeman, just the man himself.
  • ND unlike in the past, gets the needs to become a CEO and has a plan...as a top academic school should.
ND is being as optimal as can be under the circumstances.

God I'd love nothing more than getting into the playoffs and winning the whole thing. ND needs 2 losses of MI, AL, OK State, and Cincinnati to make this possible.

It would rival ANYTHING ever done in magical ND history.
 
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Meh, I don't really see BK beating Bama, GA, or Texas Tech, so long as Saban, Smart, and Jimbo are there, respectively.

Do you think Kelly will have success against those teams?
Texas Tech has been recruiting lights out ever since Jimbo’s been there.
 
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To properly analyze the Freeman hire everyone must look at all the texture and layers that AD Swarbrick had to consider. Once considered it is clear this was the wisest course of action given the circumstances. Notre Dame's decision was forced on them by Brian Kelly. For those that are unsure or uncomfortable with the Freeman hiring (I am not among them), remember Brian Kelly has done something unprecedented for a coach trying to cement a positive top tier college football legacy. No coach leaves a program on the eve of a possible decision for that team to make the college playoffs, with a possibility to compete once again for a National Championship. NO COACH. A coach trying to instill a Hall of Fame legacy sticks it out, and then after the season, if he's had too much, or worn out his welcome he retires, suggests he needs to spend more time with his family and long days in the sun. He recommends a coach as his heir and allows Swarbrick to go on a national coaching search with the 2022 class intact, and assistants not looking to jump ship ASAP, and him not trying to poach them too. For recent perspective this is how Bob Stoops, and Urban Meyer (unbelievable giving this guy credit for something classy) went out from Oklahoma, and OSU respectively, hell even Lou eventually took a job at South Carolina, but spent some time away. You spend a year in the broadcast booth surveying the landscape, surely if ND made the playoff once again this year, he would be the top candidate for any job that opened up....Penn State, FSU, UF....just as Bob Stoops' name gets bandied about virtually every time a job comes open.

Brian Kelly instead chose the path of least resistance, and worse than that he chose the classless route leaving the program on the alter staring down the precipice once again of greatness, a national title. Who has ever done that in the history of college athletics, let alone leaving one of the top programs of all time in that circumstance? Brian Kelly affirmed to all he cared very little for those players, coaches, certainly the University, and fans. It almost feels like Brian Kelly was afraid of the thought this team might actually make the playoffs, not measure up, and his legacy would get further cemented as the guy failing to win the big one, which could possibly mean no LSU, or PSU, or FSU, or UF offer in the future. This could go down as the most selfish decision of all-time among coaches from college and pro- WHICH IS SAYING A LOT!

Now about the decision to hire Freeman, Brian Kelly's decision to sneak out of town in the dead of night with no concern for the state of the program left Swarbrick very limited room to work with. This is a 6th ranked 11-1 team, with a real chance to make the playoffs. What is bigger for Notre Dame is not how we perform in the playoffs, but rather possibly getting selected and being capable of telling the world, AND RECRUITS, we are the ONLY TEAM who has been in the playoffs 3 of the last 4 years (presuming Alabama loses to UGA this weekend as expected). That's huge, historic even, and to think Brian Kelly's decision could have possibly derailed this circumstance makes it as appalling as it was shocking.

Swarbrick could have spent a long time deliberating over this, as some say don't let a recruiting class dictate a long-term decision....however that's looking at this decision in a vacuum, that's assuming BK gave ADS time to deliberate and do a true national search. That's presuming maybe things in the football program were not what they seemed and new blood, and new life needed to be injected. By ALL ACCOUNTS, this football program is now on as good of footing as it was since the 88-93 period, which is amazing. Players and recruits all talk about the 'family atmosphere' created at ND, a 'brotherhood' which was established and maintained by that football staff, and the football operations staff like Balis. Sit around and wait for Fickell to get through this run, as it has been rumored was his desire, could destroy all that has been built around the program. This isn't about one, or two classes, this is about an environment and atmosphere, a brotherhood where players coming in want to play for, and stick around in. Yes, Kelly helped forge that, but he's not what maintained it, and nurtured it, those were all the coaches retained. Those type of environments are hard to create, but easy to breakdown. An environment where there are now rumors Foskey, and the twins are considering returning, possibly Lugg (don't be fullish to argue that losing a 6th year versatile lineman would be good), and Bauer, as well as possibly Austin, and Lenzy. Those guys don't even contemplate that if this all fell apart this week. That's a culture that is hard to re-create, and one we would undoubtedly take a risk, or hope that a Fickell or other coach could replicate once we made that decision on them in the next 1-4 weeks.

In today's world of hypersensitivity, and rapid-fire decision making it's critical for leaders to make decisions quickly and contingency for change not concerning themselves with outside influences- everyone has an opinion and are not afraid to voice it on social media. The thought of seeing a half-dozen or more of the staff walk out the door, several kids transfer out, few NFL eligible players decide not to return, and a recruiting class disintegrate and a future class looking to be top 3 to fall apart while we wait, weeks upon weeks for a possible successor to Kelly wasn't prudent at this juncture, because Kelly made it that way. Furthermore, if a few chips fall this weekend and by chance 2-3 teams ahead of ND lose, it would be even more horrible to see the Selection Committee decide on a two-loss program like Alabama, or OKST hop ahead of us because the Selection Committee deems to much turmoil in the ND program to warrant a selection, we lose miserably in whatever NYD bowl we attend....and then Fickell or the new coach are in a modest rebuild job, and the existing culture is decimated.

This decision was an easy one, a no brainer quite frankly, particularly since it came with most of the key components of the existing coaches, and support staff as well as full player, and recruiting class buy-in. That speaks to how they all think of Freeman too which is an outstanding sign, and quite a bit of what they think of Kelly which is also interesting. This decision could have the potential to end like Coker at Miami, which is fine by me, if it warrants a national title and going 35-3 over the next 3 years which is what Coker did his first 3 years chalked full of top tier talent at Miami. As assistants departed, and less quality returned, and Coker didn't have the chops to replenish and maintain the culture things slowly slid sideways (and many University related issues plagued Miami that were out of Coker's control too), but I think anyone would take that legacy if it came with a National Title. You see really it is not about this decision, which was the only prudent one for AD Swarbrick to make because Brian Kelly forced it, it is about the next one. The sample size is large enough to clearly illustrate Freeman is among the most elite recruiters in the nation, so worst case is Freeman struggles a bit, and as someone analogously compared this circumstance to possibly the Ron Zook era at UF where Zook went 23-15 but assembled an unprecedented amount of talent at UF which allowed Urban to immediately step in and dominate- I believe the worst case will be a blend between Coker and Zook, because Coker's situation more closely resembles Freeman's- so this decision was the right one, the one that will be critical is Swarbrick's next one. Swarbrick smartly didn't risk breaking everything down with hopes his next hire could rebuild, he instead maintained with hopefully the sense to keep a close eye on the program and ready to pull the trigger if he sees anything starting to faulter. If Freeman doesn't turn out to be the next Dabo how quickly will he pull the trigger to get the program right, and if he does turn out to be the next Dabo...well turn the lights out Swarbrick was a genius, or rather Brian Kelly's dirtbag move did us all a favor.
Good, painstakingly thorough analysis.

IN FACT, Kelly forced ND's hand to do something it wasn't contemplating facing. By now, the argument to wait for Fickell or whomever has been made as has been the one to hire Freeman.

As it's turned out, ND has decided that the risk of conducting a thorough job search was simply too great. All well and good. You pays your money; you takes your choice.

But that doesn't necessarily translate into this having been the RIGHT decision. Freeman still has to WORK OUT. And that, by no means, is a LOCK or a NO-BRAINER.

Unfortunately, many are already viewing the FACT OF THE DECISION as PROOF OF ITS VALIDITY, thereby laying the ground for potential DISAPPOINTMENT and MASSIVE SECOND GUESSING.

Hiring Marcus Freeman was merely an EVENT. Whether or not he turns out to be a successful head coach will take a PROCESS. And as to that, THERE ARE NO GUARANTEES.

Color me hedged with a SKEPTICAL LEAN.
 
This conjecture appears untenable. It was reported BK intended to make MF the highest paid assistant coach in the land if he went to LSU. BK, a relatively astute and experienced head coach, unequivocally would not hire MF at LSU if he believed MF usurped his role as head coarch.
Reported by whom? If you can cite the report, and it's as you say, I'll be happy to concede the point.
 
This is a fun topic, taking some time from my day job.

🙂

I reduce the Freeman hire down to:
  • No top head coach being available now.
  • The need to establish stability, given a playoff opportunity and they recruiting class.
  • Key staff staying on and not bolting or following CBK.
  • Confidence in the potential of Freeman, just the man himself.
  • ND unlike in the past, gets he needs to become a CEO and has a plan...as a top academic school should.
ND is being as optimal as can be under the circumstances.

God I'd love nothing more than getting into the playoffs and winning the whole thing. ND needs 2 losses of MI, AL, OK State, and Cincinnati to make this possible.

It would rival ANYTHING ever done in magical ND history.
That seems like a good enough summary. It was serendipity....

For now, for the bowl game, the playoff, whatever we end up with.... we'll just stick with BK 2.0. But I'm just wondering what MF's big plans are, if any. Quite frankly, I wouldn't mind if they went in a different direction than Tommy Rees at OC. He was great as BK's protege running BK's offense more or less, and his young career is now basically made, and he'll easily get hired somewhere else if he needed to. But BK's gone now, and if MF wanted to take the offense in a totally different direction with new coaches, new ideas, etc... I'd have absolutely no problem with that.

In fact I would totally vote for that.

And yes, somehow, after all this sudden sturm and drang of this last week, we somehow got in the playoff and then went on and won it?? That would be utterly epic....
 
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There are legitimate concerns. It's a risk, as is ANY coaching hire. We just have to see how it pans out on the field. I'm not upset Freeman is the choice, I'm not elated and jumping up and down with excitement with it either. If the players seem to gravitate towards him like they do, and some of the coaches too, that's a heck of a start. Buying in is all part of the process. What we will learn next year is how prepared Freeman is to manage the team, manage in the heat of the moment in games and make the adjustments necessary when they are needed.
Another adult in the room heard from.
 
To properly analyze the Freeman hire everyone must look at all the texture and layers that AD Swarbrick had to consider. Once considered it is clear this was the wisest course of action given the circumstances. Notre Dame's decision was forced on them by Brian Kelly. For those that are unsure or uncomfortable with the Freeman hiring (I am not among them), remember Brian Kelly has done something unprecedented for a coach trying to cement a positive top tier college football legacy. No coach leaves a program on the eve of a possible decision for that team to make the college playoffs, with a possibility to compete once again for a National Championship. NO COACH. A coach trying to instill a Hall of Fame legacy sticks it out, and then after the season, if he's had too much, or worn out his welcome he retires, suggests he needs to spend more time with his family and long days in the sun. He recommends a coach as his heir and allows Swarbrick to go on a national coaching search with the 2022 class intact, and assistants not looking to jump ship ASAP, and him not trying to poach them too. For recent perspective this is how Bob Stoops, and Urban Meyer (unbelievable giving this guy credit for something classy) went out from Oklahoma, and OSU respectively, hell even Lou eventually took a job at South Carolina, but spent some time away. You spend a year in the broadcast booth surveying the landscape, surely if ND made the playoff once again this year, he would be the top candidate for any job that opened up....Penn State, FSU, UF....just as Bob Stoops' name gets bandied about virtually every time a job comes open.

Brian Kelly instead chose the path of least resistance, and worse than that he chose the classless route leaving the program on the alter staring down the precipice once again of greatness, a national title. Who has ever done that in the history of college athletics, let alone leaving one of the top programs of all time in that circumstance? Brian Kelly affirmed to all he cared very little for those players, coaches, certainly the University, and fans. It almost feels like Brian Kelly was afraid of the thought this team might actually make the playoffs, not measure up, and his legacy would get further cemented as the guy failing to win the big one, which could possibly mean no LSU, or PSU, or FSU, or UF offer in the future. This could go down as the most selfish decision of all-time among coaches from college and pro- WHICH IS SAYING A LOT!

Now about the decision to hire Freeman, Brian Kelly's decision to sneak out of town in the dead of night with no concern for the state of the program left Swarbrick very limited room to work with. This is a 6th ranked 11-1 team, with a real chance to make the playoffs. What is bigger for Notre Dame is not how we perform in the playoffs, but rather possibly getting selected and being capable of telling the world, AND RECRUITS, we are the ONLY TEAM who has been in the playoffs 3 of the last 4 years (presuming Alabama loses to UGA this weekend as expected). That's huge, historic even, and to think Brian Kelly's decision could have possibly derailed this circumstance makes it as appalling as it was shocking.

Swarbrick could have spent a long time deliberating over this, as some say don't let a recruiting class dictate a long-term decision....however that's looking at this decision in a vacuum, that's assuming BK gave ADS time to deliberate and do a true national search. That's presuming maybe things in the football program were not what they seemed and new blood, and new life needed to be injected. By ALL ACCOUNTS, this football program is now on as good of footing as it was since the 88-93 period, which is amazing. Players and recruits all talk about the 'family atmosphere' created at ND, a 'brotherhood' which was established and maintained by that football staff, and the football operations staff like Balis. Sit around and wait for Fickell to get through this run, as it has been rumored was his desire, could destroy all that has been built around the program. This isn't about one, or two classes, this is about an environment and atmosphere, a brotherhood where players coming in want to play for, and stick around in. Yes, Kelly helped forge that, but he's not what maintained it, and nurtured it, those were all the coaches retained. Those type of environments are hard to create, but easy to breakdown. An environment where there are now rumors Foskey, and the twins are considering returning, possibly Lugg (don't be fullish to argue that losing a 6th year versatile lineman would be good), and Bauer, as well as possibly Austin, and Lenzy. Those guys don't even contemplate that if this all fell apart this week. That's a culture that is hard to re-create, and one we would undoubtedly take a risk, or hope that a Fickell or other coach could replicate once we made that decision on them in the next 1-4 weeks.

In today's world of hypersensitivity, and rapid-fire decision making it's critical for leaders to make decisions quickly and contingency for change not concerning themselves with outside influences- everyone has an opinion and are not afraid to voice it on social media. The thought of seeing a half-dozen or more of the staff walk out the door, several kids transfer out, few NFL eligible players decide not to return, and a recruiting class disintegrate and a future class looking to be top 3 to fall apart while we wait, weeks upon weeks for a possible successor to Kelly wasn't prudent at this juncture, because Kelly made it that way. Furthermore, if a few chips fall this weekend and by chance 2-3 teams ahead of ND lose, it would be even more horrible to see the Selection Committee decide on a two-loss program like Alabama, or OKST hop ahead of us because the Selection Committee deems to much turmoil in the ND program to warrant a selection, we lose miserably in whatever NYD bowl we attend....and then Fickell or the new coach are in a modest rebuild job, and the existing culture is decimated.

This decision was an easy one, a no brainer quite frankly, particularly since it came with most of the key components of the existing coaches, and support staff as well as full player, and recruiting class buy-in. That speaks to how they all think of Freeman too which is an outstanding sign, and quite a bit of what they think of Kelly which is also interesting. This decision could have the potential to end like Coker at Miami, which is fine by me, if it warrants a national title and going 35-3 over the next 3 years which is what Coker did his first 3 years chalked full of top tier talent at Miami. As assistants departed, and less quality returned, and Coker didn't have the chops to replenish and maintain the culture things slowly slid sideways (and many University related issues plagued Miami that were out of Coker's control too), but I think anyone would take that legacy if it came with a National Title. You see really it is not about this decision, which was the only prudent one for AD Swarbrick to make because Brian Kelly forced it, it is about the next one. The sample size is large enough to clearly illustrate Freeman is among the most elite recruiters in the nation, so worst case is Freeman struggles a bit, and as someone analogously compared this circumstance to possibly the Ron Zook era at UF where Zook went 23-15 but assembled an unprecedented amount of talent at UF which allowed Urban to immediately step in and dominate- I believe the worst case will be a blend between Coker and Zook, because Coker's situation more closely resembles Freeman's- so this decision was the right one, the one that will be critical is Swarbrick's next one. Swarbrick smartly didn't risk breaking everything down with hopes his next hire could rebuild, he instead maintained with hopefully the sense to keep a close eye on the program and ready to pull the trigger if he sees anything starting to faulter. If Freeman doesn't turn out to be the next Dabo how quickly will he pull the trigger to get the program right, and if he does turn out to be the next Dabo...well turn the lights out Swarbrick was a genius, or rather Brian Kelly's dirtbag move did us all a favor.
I think your summary is pretty spot on, I think Kelly‘s departure painted ND into a corner with limited options.

I believe that Freeman was the default option.

As for the geniuses that think that Swarbrick should’ve had an immediately available contingency plan in the midst of a run at the NC, please tell us what that plan should have been, with specifics.
 
This is a fun topic, taking some time from my day job.

🙂

I reduce the Freeman hire down to:
  • No top head coach being available now.
  • The need to establish stability, given a playoff opportunity and they recruiting class.
  • Key staff staying on and not bolting or following CBK.
  • Confidence in the potential of Freeman, just the man himself.
  • ND unlike in the past, gets he needs to become a CEO and has a plan...as a top academic school should.
ND is being as optimal as can be under the circumstances.

God I'd love nothing more than getting into the playoffs and winning the whole thing. ND needs 2 losses of MI, AL, OK State, and Cincinnati to make this possible.

It would rival ANYTHING ever done in magical ND history.
Agree !
 
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Good, painstakingly thorough analysis.

IN FACT, Kelly forced ND's hand to do something it wasn't contemplating facing. By now, the argument to wait for Fickell or whomever has been made as has been the one to hire Freeman.

As it's turned out, ND has decided that the risk of conducting a thorough job search was simply too great. All well and good. You pays your money; you takes your choice.

But that doesn't necessarily translate into this having been the RIGHT decision. Freeman still has to WORK OUT. And that, by no means, is a LOCK or a NO-BRAINER.

Unfortunately, many are already viewing the FACT OF THE DECISION as PROOF OF ITS VALIDITY, thereby laying the ground for potential DISAPPOINTMENT and MASSIVE SECOND GUESSING.

Hiring Marcus Freeman was merely an EVENT. Whether or not he turns out to be a successful head coach will take a PROCESS. And as to that, THERE ARE NO GUARANTEES.

Color me hedged with a SKEPTICAL LEAN.
👍
 
AND if Kelly were to ever get usurped by MF, it would absolutely be at LSU, where the fans would certainly relate to MF more than BK.

That conjecture is not only untenable, but it also flies in the face of logic. Not a good take IMO.
Usurped "may" have been too strong a term.

But I'd stand by PREFERRED or FAVORED. I think that's now more than apparent based on things coming out from players about how they felt about Freeman from the outset. Kyle Hamilton for one.

But to an egoist like Kelly, preferred may very well be synonymous with usurped, so I still wouldn't be surprised if he didn't feel somewhat DISPLACED by Freeman.

And there's nothing illogical about it. Envy is everywhere. Ever watch women when a better looking woman enters the room?
Class, youth, vitality, "alignment" -- they're constantly at work whether VERBALIZED OR NOT.

Again, it was only conjecture, but I still remain comfortable with it as a WORKING HYPOTHESIS.
 
Usurped "may" have been too strong a term.

But I'd stand by PREFERRED or FAVORED. I think that's now more than apparent based on things coming out from players about how they felt about Freeman from the outset. Kyle Hamilton for one.

But to an egoist like Kelly, preferred may very well be synonymous with usurped, so I still wouldn't be surprised if he didn't feel somewhat DISPLACED by Freeman.

And there's nothing illogical about it. Envy is everywhere. Ever watch women when a better looking woman enters the room?
Class, youth, vitality, "alignment" -- they're constantly at work whether VERBALIZED OR NOT.

Again, it was only conjecture, but I still remain comfortable with it as a WORKING HYPOTHESIS.
That’s fair. But, my working hypothesis is that Kelly is just a selfish, narcissistic ass hat that has no room in his life for anyone but himself, and that’s why he left. More money.
 
I think your summary is pretty spot on, I think Kelly‘s departure painted ND into a corner with limited options.

I believe that Freeman was the default option.

As for the geniuses that think that Swarbrick should’ve had an immediately available contingency plan in the midst of a run at the NC, please tell us what that plan should have been, with specifics.
It did not paint ND into a corner. Nice attempt at further besmirching BK for harming precious ND, but it did not.

Coaches leaving is an utterly normal, everyday part of the sport for every program to have to confront, if their coach is suddenly no longer their coach.

So that is just completely wrong. And weak sauce. If you're determined to get some last licks into BK then at least do better than that.....
 
Pl
You realize that a Marcus Freeman-coached team will also have false starts? They will also blow timeouts. Just to remind you of that.

Will Marcus Freeman go 43-3 over the next four years? That's to be determined.....
Your last comment is the MONEY-SHOT.

First, this post isn't about questioning ND's decision to hire Freeman. I've already stated my view of it several times elsewhere.
This has to do instead with what I consider the EUPHORIA bordering on HYSTERIA with which Freeman's hiring is being greeted.

In a poll taken on the PAY BOARD, 321 posters as of this writing have stated that they prefer having Freeman as ND's coach TODAY as opposed to the 22 (I among them) who prefer the Brian Kelly of two weeks ago -- BEFORE ANY OF THIS HAPPENED. That's 93.6% to 6.4% if you don't wish to do the math.

In other words, the 93.6% are saying that Freeman who's never HEAD-COACHED a college game in his life is preferable GOING FORWARD to a guy who -- HAD HE STAYED -- had, at 85.7%, a better win-loss record over the last five years than Ara's career 83.6% number; had logged 228 wins overall; and was carrying a lifetime 72.8% win-loss record.

Seriously?

These pollsters KNOW (?) that FREEMAN NOW is the BETTER CHOICE THAN KELLY WAS THEN?

If so, why weren't they calling for Kelly's immediate firing and instant replacement with Freeman from the day the younger man showed up? WHY? I don't know, but MAYBE because it would have been NUTS. Just as it is to say NOW that Freeman is the better choice vs. the Kelly who up till recently had guided this program to an 85.7% win-loss record over the last 5 years.

And if that is indeed their belief, then it MUST FOLLOW that they expect Freeman to win at a GREATER THAN 85.7% clip, or else HOW IS HE BETTER?

I would recommend to all 321 board members who voted for Freeman in that poll to read Douglas Murray's The Madness of Crowds.
 
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I liken this to buying a stock. I usually buy mature companies that are severely undervalued but still underpriced. The irrationality and inefficiency of markets. The majority produce market beating returns once the price normalizes.

I rarely invest in a young company. Because most fail instead of becoming the next Amazon, Microsoft, or Google. Sure the rewards are great if it happens, but it usually doesn't. And to be sure, you don't even have let alone usually use the same metrics on a young company.

It's not a perfect analogy. But Freeman is like a speculative stock showing promise. Only difference is powerful companies, board members, and teammates happen to make this a little more likely.

🙂 🙃 😉
 
That’s fair. But, my working hypothesis is that Kelly is just a selfish, narcissistic ass hat that has no room in his life for anyone but himself, and that’s why he left. More money.
Sure, but if you look carefully at your hypothesis, it doesn't RULE OUT mine. They're by no means mutually exclusive. I'm simply taking a deeper dive.

Plus, here's a corollary scenario. Say, Kelly DOES WISH TO HIRE Freeman. Yet, he knows he'll be gone very soon. He takes him on for a year or two to KICK-START LSU recruiting, which as good as it is, could always be better.

He USES Freeman but dumps him before Freeman can LEVERAGE HIM BACK. Or Freeman simply leaves.

It's not just about keeping rivals closer, it's knowing how to milk them and then take them out.

I mean, all of this is something that the Kelly you're describing would plausibly be capable of.
 
I had also heard that report and I believe that it was on ESPN
Okay, that makes two sources. More or less. But I'll go with it.

At the same time, I've posted elsewhere that Kelly offering Freeman may merely have been to USE him to kick-start recruiting, knowing Freeman would be HEAD-COACHING somewhere else very soon.
 
Your last comment is the MONEY-SHOT.

First, this post isn't about questioning ND's decision to hire Freeman. I've already stated my view of it several times elsewhere.
This has to do instead with what I consider the EUPHORIA bordering on HYSTERIA with which Freeman's hiring is being greeted.

In a poll taken on the PAY BOARD, 321 posters as of this writing have stated that they prefer having Freeman as ND's coach TODAY as opposed to the 22 (I among them) who prefer the Brian Kelly of two weeks ago -- BEFORE ANY OF THIS HAPPENED. That's 93.6% to 6.4% if you don't wish to do the math.

In other words, the 93.6% are saying that Freeman who's never HEAD-COACHED a college game in his life is preferable GOING FORWARD to a guy who -- HAD HE STAYED -- had, at 85.7%, a better win-loss record over the last five years than Ara's career 83.6% number; had logged 228 wins overall; and was carrying a lifetime 72.8% win-loss record.

Seriously?

These pollsters KNOW (?) that FREEMAN NOW is the BETTER CHOICE THAN KELLY WAS THEN?

If so, why weren't they calling for Kelly's immediate firing and instant replacement with Freeman from the day the younger man showed up? WHY? I don't know, but MAYBE because it would have been NUTS. Just as it is to say NOW that Freeman is the better choice vs. the Kelly who up till recently had guided this program to an 85.7% win-loss record over the last 5 years.

And if that is indeed their belief, then it MUST FOLLOW that they expect Freeman to win at a GREATER THAN 85.7% clip, or else HOW IS HE BETTER?

I would recommend to all 321 board members who voted for Freeman in that poll to read Douglas Murray's The Madness of Crowds.
Really, the madness of crowds? So you have your doubts it sounds like. It's true, the reaction to MF has been fairly hysterical. And full of, what's that expression.... irrational exuberance? We didn't even interview anybody. We just committed to Marcus Freeman in an instant. On the spot.

Let the ride begin I guess. At least there wasn't any other particularly compelling candidates that we didn't even interview. Other than I guess Fickell, maybe, and for me at least, I was lukewarm on that guy. They were certainly no obvious young BK types out there. I don't consider Fickell as good as that. Plus we don't want to have two coaches in a row plucked from U of C. That just doesn't seem like good karma. What are the odds they're both going to hit?

In any case, Freeman, for what he is, a young, promising hotshot coordinator, really does look like a superstar. So as far as taking a big chance and taking the plunge, at least we're getting someone who 100% looks the part,

I haven't the slightest idea if this guy is really 'ready' for something like this or not. But the future is now, as they say......
 
It’s completely asinine to have the mentality of “it hasn’t worked in the past, thus it can never work.” That is just a weak, narrow minded mentality. You hire the person that you think is the best fit for the job. Period. Obsessing about the past is a big part of the reason why this freaking team has some of the struggles it has.
"Que Sera, Sera"
 
Really, the madness of crowds? So you have your doubts it sounds like. It's true, the reaction to MF has been fairly hysterical. And full of, what's that expression.... irrational exuberance? We didn't even interview anybody. We just committed to Marcus Freeman in an instant. On the spot.

Let the ride begin I guess. At least there wasn't any other particularly compelling candidates that we didn't even interview. Other than I guess Fickell, maybe, and for me at least, I was lukewarm on that guy. They were certainly no obvious young BK types out there. I don't consider Fickell as good as that. Plus we don't want to have two coaches in a row plucked from U of C. That just doesn't seem like good karma. What are the odds they're both going to hit?

In any case, Freeman, for what he is, a young, promising hotshot coordinator, really does look like a superstar. So as far as taking a big chance and taking the plunge, at least we're getting someone who 100% looks the part,

I haven't the slightest idea if this guy is really 'ready' for something like this or not. But the future is now, as they say......
There’s no question I have my doubts. But my deeper doubts are regarding the reaction of the fan base.

Think of that poll I just cited. 94.6% on the other board now think it’s better to have Freeman than Kelly. Really? That’s not the same as who should ND have hired to be its next coach. No, instead it’s this: NOW THAT KELLY IS GONE AND FREEMAN IS HERE, LET’S JUST SAY FREEMAN IS THE BETTER OPTION.

So, yes, the MADNESS OF CROWDS.

Had that poll been taken a moment after ND defeated Stanford or – had Kelly stayed on and such a poll for some reason been taken AFTER ND had gotten into the playoffs – the result would have been closer to 100% to 0 that Kelly remain ND’s coach going forward – not Freeman. In other words, 180 degrees different and then some.

Here’s what this says to me. The pain of Kelly leaving has been SUBLIMATD into a MAGICAL BELIEF in Freeman’s SHEER SUPERIORITY. Instead of mourning Kelly’s loss – and EMOTIONAL BETRAYAL – those Freeman poll voters are saying instead, “Hey, good riddance, we’ve got a better guy. No sweat! That other guy wasn’t that good anyway. High time he left!”

How is this not classic displacement behavior?


By the way, of ND’s eight most successful coaches – Harper, Rockne, Layden, Leahy, Ara, Devine, Holtz and Kelly – ONLY ONE was followed by a successor who did better in his initial year – and that was Layden. After he went 7-2 in 1940, Leahy went 8-0-1 in 1941. With the others, there were DROP-OFFS.

But, hey, 94.6% of the guys on the paying board who participated in that poll would NOW rather have Freeman than the Kelly who might have stayed. The Kelly who won 85.7% of his games the last 5 years and 228 games overall. That person apparently IN NO WAY stacks up to Marcus Freeman with his ZERO head coaching wins.

Astonishing.

Yet, on the other hand, NOT SURPRISING.
 
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Good, painstakingly thorough analysis.

IN FACT, Kelly forced ND's hand to do something it wasn't contemplating facing. By now, the argument to wait for Fickell or whomever has been made as has been the one to hire Freeman.

As it's turned out, ND has decided that the risk of conducting a thorough job search was simply too great. All well and good. You pays your money; you takes your choice.

But that doesn't necessarily translate into this having been the RIGHT decision. Freeman still has to WORK OUT. And that, by no means, is a LOCK or a NO-BRAINER.

Unfortunately, many are already viewing the FACT OF THE DECISION as PROOF OF ITS VALIDITY, thereby laying the ground for potential DISAPPOINTMENT and MASSIVE SECOND GUESSING.

Hiring Marcus Freeman was merely an EVENT. Whether or not he turns out to be a successful head coach will take a PROCESS. And as to that, THERE ARE NO GUARANTEES.

Color me hedged with a SKEPTICAL LEAN.
Well stated position. This was a no-brainer of a decision only from the perspective it was the only prudent one for Swarbrick to make at this juncture. The alternative meant a systemic breakdown of the program as we know it today. If you believe a systemic breakdown of the current environment was prudent, and a modest rebuild was in order then that is an alternative opinion worth consideration.

My feeling is this move by Swarbrick was the right one because it has a high floor potential. Retaining most of the current staff and support staff that has been integral to the recent amazing success means most of the brains and brawn that led to the last 4 year run is retained. So likely the floor is much higher because the sum is far greater than it’s parts. You may not have total faith in Freeman, but love Rees, Elston, et al. I will tell you the game plan created and flawless execution of it for the Stanford game, particularly since it had two intentions, one to hit at a Stanford weakness but two to impart on CJ Williams our vertical passing game, was flawless. My opinion of Rees went up 100% seeing His plan and it’s execution against Stanford. The only question really to ask now is how high is the ceiling is under the the current set-up!? Maybe Freeman and crew end up being a mass assembler of talent but unable to win the big one, ala Ron Zook, but is that really so bad or much different then what ND already had with Kelly?
 
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Well stated position. This was a no-brainer of a decision only from the perspective it was the only prudent one for Swarbrick to make at this juncture. The alternative meant a systemic breakdown of the program as we know it today. If you believe a systemic breakdown of the current environment was prudent, and a modest rebuild was in order then that is an alternative opinion worth consideration.

My feeling is this move by Swarbrick was the right one because it has a high floor potential. Retaining most of the current staff and support staff that has been integral to the recent amazing success means most of the brains and brawn that led to the last 4 year run is retained. So likely the floor is much higher because the sum is far greater than it’s parts. You may not have total faith in Freeman, but love Rees, Elston, et al. I will tell you the game plan created and flawless execution of it for the Stanford game, particularly since it had two intentions, one to hit at a Stanford weakness but two to impart on CJ Williams our vertical passing game, was flawless. My opinion of Rees went up 100% seeing His plan and it’s execution against Stanford. The only question really to ask now is how high is the ceiling is under the the current set-up!? Maybe Freeman and crew end up being a mass assembler of talent but unable to win the big one, ala Ron Zook, but is that really so bad or much different then what ND already had with Kelly?
I hear what you’re saying, and you make good points.

But here’s what’s critical for me. Is the sum still “far greater than its parts” WITHOUT ITS FORMER HEAD? Is it simply a question of replacing Kelly’s head with Freeman’s?

You mention the UPSIDE. That assumes the same DEGREE and QUALITY of leadership. OR . . . it assumes that Kelly was largely hands off, and the others were making it happen.

My sense is that Kelly was VERY HANDS ON in ways that were CRITICAL. Can Freeman, without ANYTHING LIKE KELLY’S EXPERIENCE – including ZERO as a head coach – simply step in and not only perform as well as Kelly in the CLINCHES but in those TOUGH MIDDLE ROUNDS as well?

I’m far from convinced as THERE’S NO BODY OF EVIDENCE for comparison. And that’s just the KNOWN UNKNOWN. There will be UNKNOWN UNKNOWNS as well.

As for the Zook comparison, I’d say that if Freeman & Co. turn out to be merely good assemblers of talent – as Gerry Faust also was and Weis, at least on offense – then, frankly, that’s A LOT WORSE than what we had under Kelly.

KELLY WON at an almost 86% clip the last 5 years. That will NOT BE EASY to replicate if the COACHING CHOPS – both developmentally and on GAME DAY – are not up to Kelly’s standard.

Might more-talented players mitigate potentially poorer head-coaching to some extent? Yes, but it’s still ND, and players must attend class. So how much more TRULY AVAILABLE TALENT is out there? Plus, how will ND fare once this transfer portal thing reaches top speed? I see more players leaving than coming.

No, to me this is still a HUGE gamble, as it would have been had ND decided to conduct a proper coaching search. Kelly really caught people off-guard, forcing Swarbrick to make a kind of Sophie’s choice. I'm glad it wasn't my call.
 
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Personally, no.

As I mentioned in my post, the situation "almost necessitated" Swarbrick hiring Freeman, but I stopped short of saying he had no choice but to do it. And, as it was, I called it a "rush to judgement."

But I do understand the difficulty of the situation he was in and the resulting calculus.

Still, myself, I would not have done it as I don't like making snap decisions. For me, examining as many options as possible has always turned out better.

There's no question that hiring a head coach at ND who doesn't have prior head coaching experience is a HUGE GAMBLE. That many don't seem to realize this I find surprising. But then, people often think that the SHINY NEW THING has MAGICAL POWERS.
What few understand are the numerous demands thrust upon the HC, and that transitioning from managing one facet of a team to managing every facet of a team is complex and it is no easy task, it’s a quantum leap, and few possess the ability to successfully make that leap.

Time, that precious commodity and “timing” produced this option, which in my mind was the only default option available to Jack.

You’ve already provided some good analogies but I’ll add another.

Needing complex brain surgery do you pick the highly regarded neurosurgeon who has performed this surgery 1,000 times, or the young, fresh hotshot one year out of residency ?

Maybe, the young hotshot will become a superstar, but I’m not taking the risk with my life or my kids lives.

I certainly wish Freeman the utmost good luck and hope that he’s one of those rare assistants who successfully makes the transition ASAP.
 
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What few understand are the numerous demands thrust upon the HC, and that transitioning from managing one facet of a team to managing every facet of a team is complex and it is no easy task, it’s a quantum leap, and few possess the ability to successfully make that leap.

Time, that precious commodity and “timing” produced this option, which in my mind was the only default option available to Jack.

You’ve already provided some good analogies but I’ll add another.

Needing complex brain surgery do you pick the highly regarded neurosurgeon who has performed this surgery 1,000 times, or the young, fresh hotshot one year out of residency ?

Maybe, the young hotshot will become a superstar, but I’m not taking the risk with my life or my kids lives.

I certainly wish Freeman the utmost good luck and hope that he’s one of those rare assistants who successfully makes the transition ASAP.
That's right. You have to INTEGRATE all aspects while at the same time turning over your own specialty to someone else who may wish to do it differently. Plus, you have to become the public face and spokesman of the entire enterprise.

ND really got caught short here. As you say, there was no time to go about this the right way

As for Freeman, he's been viewed as a kind of ROCK STAR from day one. Whether or not he in fact has the ability to do the job, people wish to ENDOW HIM with that ability. That always makes me nervous. Because being a symbol and/or acting the part is not the same thing as genuinely carrying out what the job requires.

Of course, the circumstances are different, but what's going on now is NO DIFFERENT from Faust Fever or the feeling that people had with Weis that he'd simply out-scheme other coaches as he was coming from the Patriots which simply made him smarter. This hunger for a hump-clearing hero gets so intense, people forget that the world doesn't run according to their desires.

The good thing is that Freeman gets to audition in a bowl game or, GOD WILLING, a playoff game. Either way, he goes right into the fire. And, so, it should be TELLING.
 
One thing in Coach Freeman's favor is most the staff is staying intact. It's not like he must start from the ground up in building his football team. I'm really looking forward to the post season bowl/playoff game. It's nice having a preview going into next season. It's nice knowing he has seven(?)very good experienced assistant coaches supporting him too.
 
Another adult in the room heard from.
I've been giddy about coaching hires in the past with other teams I root for only to have it be more of the same, as if the prior coach & staff never left and nothing changed and the performance is the same. I'm optimistic considering how many coaches stayed and the players overwhelming support of Freeman. But we just have see how it all plays out. There's a big learning curve here for Freeman.
 
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Just a few days ago we were at the top of the football world, now everything is in doubt for ND.
If you consider ND getting completely embarrassed repeatedly in major bowl games and CFP’s, on top of the football world, I feel sorry for you. Extremely glad you’re not in charge of making the next ND hire.
 
There’s no question I have my doubts. But my deeper doubts are regarding the reaction of the fan base.

Think of that poll I just cited. 94.6% on the other board now think it’s better to have Freeman than Kelly. Really? That’s not the same as who should ND have hired to be its next coach. No, instead it’s this: NOW THAT KELLY IS GONE AND FREEMAN IS HERE, LET’S JUST SAY FREEMAN IS THE BETTER OPTION.

So, yes, the MADNESS OF CROWDS.

Had that poll been taken a moment after ND defeated Stanford or – had Kelly stayed on and such a poll for some reason been taken AFTER ND had gotten into the playoffs – the result would have been closer to 100% to 0 that Kelly remain ND’s coach going forward – not Freeman. In other words, 180 degrees different and then some.

Here’s what this says to me. The pain of Kelly leaving has been SUBLIMATD into a MAGICAL BELIEF in Freeman’s SHEER SUPERIORITY. Instead of mourning Kelly’s loss – and EMOTIONAL BETRAYAL – those Freeman poll voters are saying instead, “Hey good riddance, we’ve got a better guy. No sweat! That other guy wasn’t that good anyway. High time he left!”

How is this not classic displacement behavior?


By the way, of ND’s eight most successful coaches – Harper, Rockne, Layden, Leahy, Ara, Devine, Holtz and Kelly – ONLY ONE was followed by a successor who did better in his initial year – and that was Layden. After he went 7-2 in 1940, Leahy went 8-0-1 in 1941. With the others, there were DROP-OFFS.

But, hey, 94.6% of the guys on the paying board who participated in that poll would NOW rather have Freeman than the Kelly who might have stayed. The Kelly who won 85.7% of his games the last 5 years and 228 games overall. That person apparently IN NO WAY stacks up to Marcus Freeman with his ZERO head coaching wins.

Astonishing.

Yet, on the other hand, NOT SURPRISING.
That was a good read
 
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Okay, that makes two sources. More or less. But I'll go with it.

At the same time, I've posted elsewhere that Kelly offering Freeman may merely have been to USE him to kick-start recruiting, knowing Freeman would be HEAD-COACHING somewhere else very soon.

Great point, never thought of it like that.
 
There’s no question I have my doubts. But my deeper doubts are regarding the reaction of the fan base.

Think of that poll I just cited. 94.6% on the other board now think it’s better to have Freeman than Kelly. Really? That’s not the same as who should ND have hired to be its next coach. No, instead it’s this: NOW THAT KELLY IS GONE AND FREEMAN IS HERE, LET’S JUST SAY FREEMAN IS THE BETTER OPTION.

So, yes, the MADNESS OF CROWDS.

Had that poll been taken a moment after ND defeated Stanford or – had Kelly stayed on and such a poll for some reason been taken AFTER ND had gotten into the playoffs – the result would have been closer to 100% to 0 that Kelly remain ND’s coach going forward – not Freeman. In other words, 180 degrees different and then some.

Here’s what this says to me. The pain of Kelly leaving has been SUBLIMATD into a MAGICAL BELIEF in Freeman’s SHEER SUPERIORITY. Instead of mourning Kelly’s loss – and EMOTIONAL BETRAYAL – those Freeman poll voters are saying instead, “Hey good riddance, we’ve got a better guy. No sweat! That other guy wasn’t that good anyway. High time he left!”

How is this not classic displacement behavior?


By the way, of ND’s eight most successful coaches – Harper, Rockne, Layden, Leahy, Ara, Devine, Holtz and Kelly – ONLY ONE was followed by a successor who did better in his initial year – and that was Layden. After he went 7-2 in 1940, Leahy went 8-0-1 in 1941. With the others, there were DROP-OFFS.

But, hey, 94.6% of the guys on the paying board who participated in that poll would NOW rather have Freeman than the Kelly who might have stayed. The Kelly who won 85.7% of his games the last 5 years and 228 games overall. That person apparently IN NO WAY stacks up to Marcus Freeman with his ZERO head coaching wins.

Astonishing.

Yet, on the other hand, NOT SURPRISING.

As always, 4-4-3, you construct a logical, if not compelling argument, stated with clarity and succinctness (well, almost succinctly). You find is surprising, if not astonishing, that almost 95% of the participants in the poll you cite preferred MF to the BK who might have stayed. While I did not participate in that poll, I am not nearly as surprised as you.

Channeling your inner Donald Rumsfeld, you cite both the "known unknowns" and the "unknown unknowns." But what does the known evidence tell us?

Twelve years of Brian Kelly tells us ND is not likely to win a national championship with him as HC.
Twelve years of Brian Kelly tells us ND is not likely to win a game on a big stage against a top 10 opponent, and in fact we are more likely to get embarrassed in that game.
Twelve years of Brian Kelly tells us that we will have good teams with him as head coach, and in some years great teams, but we will not have a championship team.
Twelve years of Brian Kelly tells us we will have teams that will play efficient football, but they will not play inspired football.
Twelve years of Brian Kelly tells us we will land some very good recruits, but not enough great ones.

In short, we will be satisfied, but not content.

And what does the evidence to date tell us about Marcus Freeman?
He is personable, if not charismatic in a way that BK never was, and never will be.
He is as good a recruiter as ND has had in 30+ years, and could possibly be one of the best in CFB right now.
He will work hard.
His players love him.
His assistant coaches feel a sense of loyalty to him.
He understands what ND is all about. (Or as MF himself said yesterday, "I've been all in on Notre Dame from the minute I stepped on this campus. You can't help but embrace this special place. Notre Dame will change you if you let it.")

Of course, there is no historical evidence that allows us to predict--or as you characterize it, it is a known unknown--as to what kind of success MF will have as head coach, but that some are willing to take that leap of faith isn't as surprising to me as it is to you. I will thank BK for what he has done, but I am more than happy to move on--in fact, I am excited about.

When I was a young man, I was willing to accept risk. As I grew into middle age, doing the safe and secure thing seemed much more prudent. As I move into my senior years, I still look to do the safe thing for the most part, but now and then I will take a risk that perhaps I wouldn't have taken a decade or so before. I would like to see ND win another NC. While we might have done so with BK, the cold, stark evidence tells me we wouldn't have. So I am willing to take that leap of faith with MF. Maybe we will go down in flames, but then we regroup and start again.

I have been a supporter of BK. I have not been one of those who advocated for his termination. But the fact is, BK decided to leave of his own volition. He left because of his ego and because he sees an opportunity to make a lot of money. A poll that asks whether people prefer MF over a BK that would have stayed means nothing to me. Brian Kelly's departure leaves ND with an opportunity to do something that it likely would not have done otherwise. I am ready for Marcus Freeman to lead the team to the top of the college football world again. You may well be right that those of us who feel that way are thinking with our hearts instead of our heads, but BK left us where we are now. Whether Swarbrick made the right choice with MF is to be seen, but under the circumstances it was really the only choice.
 
Freeman is very impressive in interviews. And he did a nice job as defensive coordinator this season, similar to Elko and Lea, maybe not quite as good as Lea who had solid defenses throughout the season.

But Freeman is no where near ready to be head coach of ND. No other major program was considering him and Swarbrick bid against himself. It boggles the mind he didn’t go after Fickell or another proven head coach.

The recruiting fan boys (you know who I’m talking about) love this hire, which is a warning sign. So do the rah rah beat reporters like Sampson and Loy who struggle to see the forest from the tree’s. I’ll never understand the urgency to keep a couple high school recruits committed when you’re hiring a coach for the next decade. It’s shortsighted and the same trap USC and so many other AD’s have fallen into.

One of Lou Somogyi’s major rules in his lifetime of following Notre Dame football
was that no assistant coach has ever worked out as head coach at ND. He would always quote Ara and Bob Davie saying the same thing. Those who don’t remember the past are condemned to repeat it.

Kelly had this program rolling, the infrastructure is as good as it’s been in 30 years, but predicting in 4-5 years Freeman will be an assistant coach in the NFL, and ND will be looking for a new coach to rebuild.

Really hope I’m wrong. I’m as diehard an ND fan as you’ll ever meet, but history and a lifetime of following college football tells me ND is about to regress.
All I can say is there always has to be one sorry a— Nancy throwing water on a hot fire.

this hire does not in any way resemble previous hires plus the most successful programs Right Now have first time coaches

so go suk eggs or get behind Marcus
 
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It’s completely asinine to have the mentality of “it hasn’t worked in the past, thus it can never work.” That is just a weak, narrow minded mentality. You hire the person that you think is the best fit for the job. Period. Obsessing about the past is a big part of the reason why this freaking team has some of the struggles it has.
I agree with the last part of your statement. Some fans, the school, the admin all seem to live in the past. Will Freeman work out I have no idea. Will he fail I have no idea. One thing I think he does is that he connects with the kids. If can recruit like has has been and surround himself with a good staff, he should be ok.
 
As always, 4-4-3, you construct a logical, if not compelling argument, stated with clarity and succinctness (well, almost succinctly). You find is surprising, if not astonishing, that almost 95% of the participants in the poll you cite preferred MF to the BK who might have stayed. While I did not participate in that poll, I am not nearly as surprised as you.

Channeling your inner Donald Rumsfeld, you cite both the "known unknowns" and the "unknown unknowns." But what does the known evidence tell us?

Twelve years of Brian Kelly tells us ND is not likely to win a national championship with him as HC.
Twelve years of Brian Kelly tells us ND is not likely to win a game on a big stage against a top 10 opponent, and in fact we are more likely to get embarrassed in that game.
Twelve years of Brian Kelly tells us that we will have good teams with him as head coach, and in some years great teams, but we will not have a championship team.
Twelve years of Brian Kelly tells us we will have teams that will play efficient football, but they will not play inspired football.
Twelve years of Brian Kelly tells us we will land some very good recruits, but not enough great ones.

In short, we will be satisfied, but not content.

And what does the evidence to date tell us about Marcus Freeman?
He is personable, if not charismatic in a way that BK never was, and never will be.
He is as good a recruiter as ND has had in 30+ years, and could possibly be one of the best in CFB right now.
He will work hard.
His players love him.
His assistant coaches feel a sense of loyalty to him.
He understands what ND is all about. (Or as MF himself said yesterday, "I've been all in on Notre Dame from the minute I stepped on this campus. You can't help but embrace this special place. Notre Dame will change you if you let it.")

Of course, there is no historical evidence that allows us to predict--or as you characterize it, it is a known unknown--as to what kind of success MF will have as head coach, but that some are willing to take that leap of faith isn't as surprising to me as it is to you. I will thank BK for what he has done, but I am more than happy to move on--in fact, I am excited about.

When I was a young man, I was willing to accept risk. As I grew into middle age, doing the safe and secure thing seemed much more prudent. As I move into my senior years, I still look to do the safe thing for the most part, but now and then I will take a risk that perhaps I wouldn't have taken a decade or so before. I would like to see ND win another NC. While we might have done so with BK, the cold, stark evidence tells me we wouldn't have. So I am willing to take that leap of faith with MF. Maybe we will go down in flames, but then we regroup and start again.

I have been a supporter of BK. I have not been one of those who advocated for his termination. But the fact is, BK decided to leave of his own volition. He left because of his ego and because he sees an opportunity to make a lot of money. A poll that asks whether people prefer MF over a BK that would have stayed means nothing to me. Brian Kelly's departure leaves ND with an opportunity to do something that it likely would not have done otherwise. I am ready for Marcus Freeman to lead the team to the top of the college football world again. You may well be right that those of us who feel that way are thinking with our hearts instead of our heads, but BK left us where we are now. Whether Swarbrick made the right choice with MF is to be seen, but under the circumstances it was really the only choice.
A lot to unpack there. But I’ll be as succinct as I can.

First, I don’t have an inner Don Rumsfeld. But like Rumsfeld, I’m data driven, believe in planning and prefer to be direct.

As I see it, Kelly has failed at ONE THING ONLY – winning an NC. But, honestly, what were the ODDS of him doing it given the teams he’d have to have beaten to get there. Teams with UNRESTRICTED RECRUITING PRACTICES and in some cases FEW TO NO true academic requirements. I’d say his failure to win an NC was as much as anything reflective of ND REALITY vs. COLLEGE FOOTBALL REALITY.

When Kelly lost playoff, bowl and other big games, it was usually to teams with BETTER TALENT. When are ND supporters going to realize that it’s IMPOSSIBLE to HAVE THEIR CAKE and EAT IT? I suspect when, say, Bama’s second-string team has transferred to play first-string at PSU or Purdue, the penny perhaps may drop. And then what? Will ND itself accept undergrad transfers? IT HAD BETTER. In fact, I'd be surprised if this issue wasn't part of Kelly's calculus in leaving. His fear that ND wouldn't BEND.

As for Freeman, he’s a WORK IN PROGRESS. Unfortunately, he’s also experiencing his PALM SUNDAY. Let’s hope there are no STATIONS OF THE CROSS. Given his lack of experience, Freeman is still largely an IDEA or CONCEPT. Yet, HE MAY STILL WORK OUT. But his learning curve will be done on ND’s NICKEL – which leads me to why I posted my original message . . .

The notion that Freeman is now viewed by guys on the other board as PREFERABLE to still having Kelly – in other words, THAT FREEMAN IS THE BETTER COACH simply because Kelly left – is LUDICROUS, particularly when two weeks ago, FEW IF ANY OF THOSE POSTERS WOULD HAVE VOTED TO ELEVATE FREEMAN. I mean, how did Freeman become so brilliant so fast? And Kelly so worthlessly disposable?

Like yourself, I’m not a KID, so I’ve seen people BS themselves in this VERY SAME WAY when someone has disappointed them or let them down. They EXALT the new person – often to the point of SAINTHOOD -- because they need to FLIP THE FIELD and keep the DOPAMINE FLOWING.

So, while I’m skeptical for sure of Freeman, I’m even MORE SKEPTICAL of ND’s fan base’s reaction to him. The response, BRAIN-WISE, is both FAR TOO LIMBIC and TOO LITTLE PREFRONTAL. We’re seeing an ORGY of OPTIMISM with no CONCRETE FOUNDATION. People are wishing on a STAR. Actually, make that a ROCK STAR. I simply don’t do that.

As for resumes based on POTENTIAL, take them with a GRAIN OF SALT and remember the PETER PRINCIPLE which states that people in a hierarchy rise to their “respective level of competence.” We won’t know if Freeman is competent at the CEO level or not until he proves it, but there’s no way on earth that he’s a better head coach than Kelly RIGHT NOW without having head-coached a SINGLE COLLEGE GAME.

That anyone would ACTUALLY THINK THAT HE IS shows me that people are simply HIGH on the GUY. God protect him should he DISAPPOINT them.
 
A lot to unpack there. But I’ll be as succinct as I can.

First, I don’t have an inner Don Rumsfeld. But like Rumsfeld, I’m data driven, believe in planning and prefer to be direct.

As I see it, Kelly has failed at ONE THING ONLY – winning an NC. But, honestly, what were the ODDS of him doing it given the teams he’d have to have beaten to get there. Teams with UNRESTRICTED RECRUITING PRACTICES and in some cases FEW TO NO true academic requirements. I’d say his failure to win an NC was as much as anything reflective of ND REALITY vs. COLLEGE FOOTBALL REALITY.

When Kelly lost playoff, bowl and other big games, it was usually to teams with BETTER TALENT. When are ND supporters going to realize that it’s IMPOSSIBLE to HAVE THEIR CAKE and EAT IT? I suspect when, say, Bama’s second-string team has transferred to play first-string at PSU or Purdue, the penny perhaps may drop. And then what? Will ND itself accept undergrad transfers? IT HAD BETTER. In fact, I'd be surprised if this issue wasn't part of Kelly's calculus in leaving. His fear that ND wouldn't BEND.

As for Freeman, he’s a WORK IN PROGRESS. Unfortunately, he’s also experiencing his PALM SUNDAY. Let’s hope there are no STATIONS OF THE CROSS. Given his lack of experience, Freeman is still largely an IDEA or CONCEPT. Yet, HE MAY STILL WORK OUT. But his learning curve will be done on ND’s NICKEL – which leads me to why I posted my original message . . .

The notion that Freeman is now viewed by guys on the other board as PREFERABLE to still having Kelly – in other words, THAT FREEMAN IS THE BETTER COACH simply because Kelly left – is LUDICROUS, particularly when two weeks ago, FEW IF ANY OF THOSE POSTERS WOULD HAVE VOTED TO ELEVATE FREEMAN. I mean, how did Freeman become so brilliant so fast? And Kelly so worthlessly disposable?

Like yourself, I’m not a KID, so I’ve seen people BS themselves in this VERY SAME WAY when someone has disappointed them or let them down. They EXALT the new person – often to the point of SAINTHOOD -- because they need to FLIP THE FIELD and keep the DOPAMINE FLOWING.

So, while I’m skeptical for sure of Freeman, I’m even MORE SKEPTICAL of ND’s fan base’s reaction to him. The response, BRAIN-WISE, is both FAR TOO LIMBIC and TOO LITTLE PREFRONTAL. We’re seeing an ORGY of OPTIMISM with no CONCRETE FOUNDATION. People are wishing on a STAR. Actually, make that a ROCK STAR. I simply don’t do that.

As for resumes based on POTENTIAL, take them with a GRAIN OF SALT and remember the PETER PRINCIPLE which states that people in a hierarchy rise to their “respective level of competence.” We won’t know if Freeman is competent at the CEO level or not until he proves it, but there’s no way on earth that he’s a better head coach than Kelly RIGHT NOW without having head-coached a SINGLE COLLEGE GAME.

That anyone would ACTUALLY THINK THAT HE IS shows me that people are simply HIGH on the GUY. God protect him should he DISAPPOINT them.
This is the last time I’m going to post about Kelly, he’s gone and that’s that. No point in bloviating about it. In 12 years at Notre Dame, Kelly lost to many teams with inferior talent. USF, UConn, Navy x2, Duke, and Cincinnati. He also lost to teams with equivalent talent in Stanford, Michigan, Miami, and Stanford.

Of his 12 seasons he’s had 6 successful seasons, 5 mediocre seasons, and 1 disastrous season.

His teams have come out flat in most every big game they have played in during his tenure.

He has botched the QB position his entire tenure at Notre Dame.

Even if the powers that be decided to give him everything he wanted, he still would not win a NC. Why? Because he’s a control freak and can’t let his assistants simply run their side of it. He would tinker and screw things up. So instead of getting their doors blown off vs the elite teams, he’d lose by a closer margin, but still lose.

As for his tenure at LSU. He’s going to be under a pressure cooker for sure ti produce a title quickly. I can’t see BK delivering and I predict he’ll be gone from LSU within 5 years.

As I said it’s my last post about BK, so feel free to respond, but I will no longer respond to this thread.

Go Irish!!!
 
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This is the last time I’m going to post about Kelly, he’s gone and that’s that. No point in bloviating about it. In 12 years at Notre Dame, Kelly lost to many teams with inferior talent. USF, UConn, Navy x2, Duke, and Cincinnati. He also lost to teams with equivalent talent in Stanford, Michigan, Miami, and Stanford.

Of his 12 seasons he’s had 6 successful seasons, 5 mediocre seasons, and 1 disastrous season.

His teams have come out flat in most every big game they have played in during his tenure.

He has botched the QB position his entire tenure at Notre Dame.

Even if the powers that be decided to give him everything he wanted, he still would not win a NC. Why? Because he’s a control freak and can’t let his assistants simply run their side of it. He would tinker and screw things up. So instead of getting their doors blown off vs the elite teams, he’d lose by a closer margin, but still lose.

As for his tenure at LSU. He’s going to be under a pressure cooker for sure ti produce a title quickly. I can’t see BK delivering and I predict he’ll be gone from LSU within 5 years.

As I said it’s my last post about BK, so feel free to respond, but I will no longer respond to this thread.

Go Irish!!!
If and when Marcus Freeman goes 54-9 at ND over a five-year stretch, I'll be happy to concede that he's at least proven he's Kelly's equal.

And BTW, I'm no big Kelly guy. But 54-9 is an Ara or Holtz-like run. The guy won 73% of his games at ND. In this day and age, that's nothing to punish someone for.

Kelly put ND back on the map.
 
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All I can say is there always has to be one sorry a— Nancy throwing water on a hot fire.

this hire does not in any way resemble previous hires plus the most successful programs Right Now have first time coaches

so go suk eggs or get behind Marcus
And there's always one guy who loses his cookies and gets personal because someone disagrees with him on one of his CHERISHED BELIEFS.

Sorry for blowing out your votive candle.
 
Great point, never thought of it like that.
Thanks.

But it's Kelly right? He's nothing if not mercenary. And that's neither a slight nor a compliment but merely an observation.
 
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