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Phil Jurkovec Transferring

It's just haters hating Kelly. Anything they think that will make Kelly look bad they will post. Weather they truly believe what they post does not matter.

Exactly. This place is as toxic as it gets. Just about every thought or sentiment or observation expressed, is filtered through the lens of Brian Kelly sucks and Ian Book sucks. And it's highly palpable, at least if you're not someone who lives to hate on BK or Book, and all you see is post after post after post of finding new ways to either overtly attack them or subtly demean them, all while going 22-2 the last two seasons. It's basically almost like an axiomatic first principle that they both suck, and all life just flows from that.

I wonder what all the haters will do now that Phil's gone. If there was one thing PJ was good for in his brief time at ND, was using him as a wedge to go to town on Kelly/Book. And since Brandon Clark was not much more of a top recruit than Book was, and Drew Pyne is considered to be underwhelming, they'll have to get creative about it. Something tells me they won't miss a beat.
 
i think Zaire could have been really good but he was never the same after the injury. did very little at Florida also. interesting how none of the three you mentioned accomplished much of anything after transferring. skill set includes many things. the fact that none of those three did much anywhere is a strong indicator they didn't possess the requisite NFL skill set. Kellys job is not to develop NFL caliber QB'S. his job is to win games. just like Holtz. Lou had the unanimous #1 overall recruit in Powlus. How did he develop as a NFL ready QB ? offensive schemes are a huge part of it. Feel free to blame Kelly for everything including the quality of the toilet paper at the stadium.
Really????

I've been there...you've been there. Let's look at these three you mentioned. Zaire at Florida, Wimbush at UCF, Golson at FSU.

All had 1 year remaining. For the sake of argument let's say they got absolutely zero quality tutelage up to this point. As a program you can't waste a year reinventing the wheel with these players who ultimately you'll lose after one season. If you must teach anew then you're going to play the individual who will be returning so you can enjoy his experience.

The most telling thing of all is all the QB'S under BK don't get better with experience. Everyone wondered if Book would break the trend heading into this past season. Obviously he didn't. While he didn't take huge steps backward he also didn't take much forward as well.

Business as usual with the most important position on the team.

BK needs to stay the hell away from anything QB related on the team and I'd bet you several wooden nickels you'd see improved QB play.

He's way too arrogant for that though. He just can't help himself. If he's going to act like a CEO now...then act like a damn CEO now and allow QB people to make that position the best it can be. In other words stay the hell away from that position.
 
Yes, a pity that young Phil or Brandon were even presences on campus given their inability to run the offensive scheme.

One does have to ponder how their presence at the university even came about with such a glaring in ability to run the offensive scheme.

That might also lead one to ponder about the coaching staff's ability to appropriately target and recruit quarterbacks that can effectively excute their scheme.

I think we can all conclude based upon events that have transpired on the field over the past decade that Kelly and his staff have a glaring deficiency in either appropriately identifying quarterbacks to execute their offense both mentally and physically or develop the mental or physical deficiencies of the quarterbacks they mis-evaluated during the recruiting process.

Regrettably, whether for which case it may be, the deficiencies continue to result in lackluster production at the position which at the end of the day falls squarely and chiefly under the responsibility of your fair and virtuous maiden.
Hhhhmmmm....

Scheme?

I've been saying for awhile now that we're not a difficult offense to play against.

R

O

B

O

T

I

C

Aside from the scheme that isn't fooling anyone the offense is robotic. Very. Slow and methodical with no sense of urgency whatsoever. Walk to the line. Run play. Walk back to the line. Don't huddle...walk around filling in the formation. QB clearly intentionally lines his feet up...hell he can't even do a clap for a snap without looking like Mr. Roboto. Then run the east west running play that is insanely easy to read as a defense and blow up for a loss.
Then BK face looks pissy, walk back to the huddle area, get the play, walk to the line , get set, methodically set the feet, clap, snap, throw a three yard curl and sit route, tackled immediately. 3rd and 8, walk to the huddle area, walk to the line, slowly get ready, set feet, methodically clap, snap, pocket develops, leave pocket way too early, receiver wide open streaking down the sideline, ignore that receiver and throw to a receiver at the end of his crossing route 3 yards shy of a first down where momentum carries the ball too far out of bounds. Incomplete. BK face really looks pissy now. 4th 8. Punt!

That right there is pretty much what happens on too many possessions.

Then when we get into a hostile type game...the opponent is amped we are in zombie mode. Blink twice its 20-3 and the route is on.


But hey...he got the university to buy fake grass and a new nautilus machine and jump ropes. He's legendary!!!
 
I'm sure there are a number of theories as to why Phil decided to transfer. Only those involved know the answer. This happens at every school one time or another. No one wants to sit. I'm sure if Book were leaving, we might not even be having this discussion. With that said, i'm sorry to see him go. I was hopeful he could be a great player for ND. I wish him well and hope he is a great player for whatever school he decides to attend.
 
Not sure what you mean? Didn't want to leave you unanswered.

Last I checked "post" meant any deep route slanting towards the middle of the field while "flag" went to the sideline. Of course I'm aware football coaches rename the same stuff every couple of years.
 
receiver wide open streaking down the sideline

I don't see too many occurrences of that transpiring on the field but otherwise your post is spot on.

It's amazing to me how we can still be running a general scheme that was considered innovative back in the mid to late 00's. And at that not even bother to employ tempo which was its chief advantage at the time.

I agree with your observations on pace and execution as well. Everything looks to be executed at half speed as though it were some type of walk through.

Sometimes I watch in dismay when the opponent cannot thwart our 60% speed offense as it marticulates down the field.

My only solace in the situation be that I do not find myself to be a fan that particular team which is manned with such a feckless defense that my own team's blithering offense might find some degree of success against it.

Words escape even for me, to accurately describe the sheer monstrosity with which the offense conducted its self in the 2012 Alabama, 2017 UGA, 2017 Miami, 2018 Clemson, 2019 UGA, and 2019 Michigan game.

That Alabama and Michigan players have purported to knowing the plays merely by our alignments should give some insight into the schemes lack of sophistication with which when coupled with the aforementioned lack of urgency in execution produces predictable results.
 
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He's way too arrogant for that though. He just can't help himself. If he's going to act like a CEO now...then act like a damn CEO now and allow QB people to make that position the best it can be. In other words stay the hell away from that position.

Further exasperating the problem is he is too insecure to hire an individual that could produce quality results at the position lest his offensive genius (no pun intended) be challenged. Source material: Rees, Thomas

And then were he to find himself by accidental hire in the presence of someone with a greater aptitude he will summarily squelch that person and see to their exit from the program. Source material: Lafleur, Matthew

Lafleur is also "the one not to be spoken of" around these parts as it presents too much cognitive dissonance for the valiant knights when defending their fair maiden.

They can't attempt to hang someone up on which W/L record is appropriate against which commensurate AP ranking when defining appropriate wins with which to judge Lady of the Purple Face Veil nor can they procure a player or coach who went on to less favorable success upon another endeavor to throw under the mass transit vehicle in defense of the proprietor of artificial playing surfaces and fire extinguisher laced team introductions (only about 30 years truant in that endeavor that was made infamous by one of our chief rivals--a "good look" no doubt; and btw can you believe the Masters still chooses to cling tight to their silly little traditions? No wonder that event is struggling so mightily).

But shall we were to discuss Mike Sanford or Malik Zaire or Everett Golson we would no doubt here palpable squeals of glee and delight as the valiant knights would begin to steady themselves on their keyboards to defend thy lady's honor.
 
Last I checked "post" meant any deep route slanting towards the middle of the field while "flag" went to the sideline. Of course I'm aware football coaches rename the same stuff every couple of years.

A post can be toward the middle of the field or sideline. I am sure that it can go by the term flag, so I am not going to say you are wrong. The difference between a post and a corner is where the route ends up, because at its base they are the same look on a route tree.
 
The question is how much does the S&C program have to do with injuries? The correlation may be overblown but I don’t think it’s easy to say

No doubt there can be correlation but things like Zaire’s broken ankle, Russell’s broken leg, and Prosise’s concussion were just injuries.
 
Not in the least. I feel like we know the ceiling with Ian. It's a good ceiling. A respectable one. But a ceiling none-the-less that falls short of ND's only major goal. A national title. We've seen Ian Book vs top defenses. Clemson, Georgia and Michigan set QB play vs top defenses back 50 years.
Phil can't reach Book's floor. Get better or flee. He chose to leave. No worries here or in South Bend.
 
“What’s with this "well enough” crap? He touches the ball on every offensive snap and he led his offense to 17 points, while throwing 2 interceptions. If your suggestion is that the defense is somehow at fault for surrendering 23 points on the road at Georgia, I don't know what to say. It's modern football. The QB is BY FAR the most important player in the field. He has to play like it.

Shea Patterson made plays when asked to in that monsoon. Hung in for a nice TD throw and took a hit. Scrambled for key first downs. Why does Ian need you to excuse him for 8-25 in that game?

Was Ian's fumble at midfield against Clemson the fault of his receivers? Was his brutal overthrow to a wide open Boykin for a touchdown the fault of his receivers? Was his terrible miss to a wide open Boykin on a 4th down slant route route the fault of his receivers. Was his bad downfield miss to Finke on the option route deep in the Clemson red zone the fault of his receivers?.. Yeah, his receivers could have played better. The Claypool and Mack drops were not good. But none of that excuses how poorly and skittish Ian played in that game. Particularly in the first half when the game was still tightly contested.

I've been extremely fair to Ian Book this year. I've praised him when he's played well, but I'm not going to blow smoke up people's asses who try to tell me that he played well when he didn't.

Newsflash... He got a "go back to school" grade by the NFL as a senior. He doesn't impress anybody when the lights get bright and the competition gets tough. He had a legitimate NFL WR and a legitimate NFL tight end to pass to.this year as well. They made all kinds of plays for him. I don't want to hear any crap about the talent surrounding him.

Flat out, if Ian wants to be one of the best QB's in the country he has to play at the level he does vs Duke and Navy when he plays Clemson, Wisconsin and USC next year.. Nobody expects the exact same numbers in those game, because they understand the rise in level of competition but we (I at least) want a QB who we can define as better than "fine" and having played "well enough" in those games. How about "he was a star vs Wisconsin" and "he was the catalyst in beating Clemson"...? That would be a nice change.“


uh oh, Ontario is in temper tantrum tirade mode again. “Well enough” means that we didn’t lose because of his play and his play kept us in it. There was no running game to speak of (even though long banged his head against a wall w/ it), and finke dropped a 3rd down conversion in the ever-important 1st drive of the 2nd half that results in a pick. The other int was on book when the trick play broke down and he was essentially throwing it away, finke didn’t come all the way back to the ball & the safety made an incredible play. For someone that harps on knowing the nuances, you’d think you’d mention that one of the two picks weren’t his fault. I guess you save the excuse making for your boy Justin fields. When he throws two picks in crunch time in the biggest moment of his career to date (the last one to lose the game), you still get down on your knees & praise him. I can only imagine the vitriol if book had thrown two bad picks in crunch time, the last one to lose the game instead of win it in the playoffs. Oh the humanity.

Don't put words in my mouth either. I never blamed the defense for the Georgia game. The running game, our wrs and our playcalling lost that game, not book.

I have to laugh about the “Shea made plays” comment too. The one td was going to the shorter outcut and he got hit and the ball miraculously ended up in the unintended Michigan wrs’ hands and you say “he hung in”. Lol. He was 6-12 and got lucky on the td. Give me a break.

As for book’s bad plays against Clemson, he had his share, and considering that he was playing against one of the best front sevens in college football ever, I’d say some of those bad plays were expected. The fumble was a fluke (the ball popped out right before he hit the ground, happens all the time but that’s on him). But he didn’t play as bad as you and others portray here, especially in the first half, before Clemson pinned their ears back w/ a lead and he ran for his life in the 2nd.

As for “blowing smoke up people’s asses...”, I could care less if you blow smoke up my ass. I don’t put much credence at all in your analysis on the subject.

I’m not sure why you’re citing the nfl at all. I don’t give a shit if the nfl likes him or not. I only care about whether I think he’s good enough for us to win big, and I do. And you’re right, he had some good wrs & tes to throw to and he succeeded in doing so to the tune of 50 tds w/o turning it over much at all (remember when some of you called him a turnover machine after 75 attempts?), and that’s w/o playing in as wide open an offense as others do.

So go ahead all off season long and bash him if you want, I’ll continue to defend the guy if I think people are going overboard, it’s not like I don’t have the practice.
 
“Exactly. This place is as toxic as it gets. Just about every thought or sentiment or observation expressed, is filtered through the lens of Brian Kelly sucks and Ian Book sucks. And it's highly palpable, at least if you're not someone who lives to hate on BK or Book, and all you see is post after post after post of finding new ways to either overtly attack them or subtly demean them, all while going 22-2 the last two seasons. It's basically almost like an axiomatic first principle that they both suck, and all life just flows from that.

I wonder what all the haters will do now that Phil's gone. If there was one thing PJ was good for in his brief time at ND, was using him as a wedge to go to town on Kelly/Book. And since Brandon Clark was not much more of a top recruit than Book was, and Drew Pyne is considered to be underwhelming, they'll have to get creative about it. Something tells me they won't miss a beat.”

What a great post!
 
Really great free article on Mike Frank's site chronicling just how damn hard it is to get an elite QB... He goes though a bunch of big schools (Florida, Georgia, Michigan, Penn State) and the QBs they've recruited over the last 14 years. Amazing how many low three star players end up being memorable and how many 5*s have been a bust. That said, Clemson, OSU, Okla and USC seem to have the formula. Hope we have that formula now! If not, steal it! I remain optimistic.
 
Really great free article on Mike Frank's site chronicling just how damn hard it is to get an elite QB... He goes though a bunch of big schools (Florida, Georgia, Michigan, Penn State) and the QBs they've recruited over the last 14 years. Amazing how many low three star players end up being memorable and how many 5*s have been a bust. That said, Clemson, OSU, Okla and USC seem to have the formula. Hope we have that formula now! If not, steal it! I remain optimistic.

ok, now think, how many 5* QB’s are there every year?
How many 5* QB’s were in the recent playoffs?
 
Don’t you know????? Because Phil had one more star by his name when coming out of HS.
That is so true. If he came in as a 3 star, and performed like he did in the spring game, people would be saying we wasted a scholarship. He hasnt proven a thing. He throws some of the worst balls Ive ever seen.

I hope the best for him. I hope he proves me and others wrong and becomes an nfl star. He seems like a good kid and good teammate from all reports. Good luck Phil
 
And if he fails at his next spot like Crist, Golson, Zaire and Wimbush did, what will you say?
If he fails I will say that he is not that good. But based on 1- what I have seen, which is limited pt, Phil has done pretty well. And 2- Kelly has proven to be abismal at recognizing potential in his QBs and developing them

so my point is that Ohil has not gotten a fair shot. There have been umpteen minutes that he could have been given meaningful pt but Kelly kept Book in.
Based on that there is no way of knowing what he could have done at ND. We will see how he does at his next stop
 
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What's with this "well enough" crap? He touches the ball on every offensive snap and he led his offense to 17 points, while throwing 2 interceptions. If your suggestion is that the defense is somehow at fault for surrendering 23 points on the road at Georgia, I don't know what to say. It's modern football. The QB is BY FAR the most important player in the field. He has to play like it.

Shea Patterson made plays when asked to in that monsoon. Hung in for a nice TD throw and took a hit. Scrambled for key first downs. Why does Ian need you to excuse him for 8-25 in that game?

Was Ian's fumble at midfield against Clemson the fault of his receivers? Was his brutal overthrow to a wide open Boykin for a touchdown the fault of his receivers? Was his terrible miss to a wide open Boykin on a 4th down slant route route the fault of his receivers. Was his bad downfield miss to Finke on the option route deep in the Clemson red zone the fault of his receivers?.. Yeah, his receivers could have played better. The Claypool and Mack drops were not good. But none of that excuses how poorly and skittish Ian played in that game. Particularly in the first half when the game was still tightly contested.

I've been extremely fair to Ian Book this year. I've praised him when he's played well, but I'm not going to blow smoke up people's asses who try to tell me that he played well when he didn't.

Newsflash... He got a "go back to school" grade by the NFL as a senior. He doesn't impress anybody when the lights get bright and the competition gets tough. He had a legitimate NFL WR and a legitimate NFL tight end to pass to.this year as well. They made all kinds of plays for him. I don't want to hear any crap about the talent surrounding him.

Flat out, if Ian wants to be one of the best QB's in the country he has to play at the level he does vs Duke and Navy when he plays Clemson, Wisconsin and USC next year.. Nobody expects the exact same numbers in those game, because they understand the rise in level of competition but we (I at least) want a QB who we can define as better than "fine" and having played "well enough" in those games. How about "he was a star vs Wisconsin" and "he was the catalyst in beating Clemson"...? That would be a nice change.

IIO,

What plays did Shea Patterson make ?

He handed the ball off 46 times and ran 11 times.

He only passed 12 times and completed 6.

ND’s defense was focused on the run which made passing easier.

So what plays did he “step up” and make ?

Against Georgia Book was 29 for 47 For 61.7 % and only handed off 11 times. So how is that not “stepping up”

If the rest of the team fails to perform, as in the Michigan game, how is that Book’s fault/responsibility?
 
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If he fails I will say that he is not that good. But based on 1- what I have seen, which is limited pt, Phil has done pretty well. And 2- Kelly has proven to be abismal at recognizing potential in his QBs and developing them

so my point is that Ohil has not gotten a fair shot. There have been umpteen minutes that he could have been given meaningful pt but Kelly kept Book in.
Based on that there is no way of knowing what he could have done at ND. We will see how he does at his next stop

How did Wimbush, Zairre and Golson fare when they transferred ?

Not well, proving that they weren’t that good to start with !

To repeat, what coach doesn’t want to start his best player at each position?
 
the BK PR damage control crew ‘fired up’!

Why did Kelly recruit Phil anyway? I mean Kelly should have seen the flaws apparent to all of Phil's detractors on this site sooner than anyone on this board would have spotted them, yet Kelly still wasted a scholarship on him. Kelly cannot develop quarterbacks. Period. End of story. He has not recruited a QB, developed a QB, and seen that QB go into the NFL to become a regular starting QB. Whether a 5-star, 4-star or 3-star recruit. Hasn't done it. I know a lot of the Kelly supporters put their eggs in Buchner's basket, but that kid better have the natural talent to play above the level of coaching he is going to get at Notre Dame because it ain't much. Hopefully, Kelly will at least surround Buchner with talented playmakers at RB, TE and WR or it won't matter how good the kid is. As good as Lawrence and Tua have been, they are surrounded by sure-fire NFL talent in Higgins, Ross, Jeudy, etc., etc. If Kelly can't get that level of talent and speed into the program in the next three to four years with consistent Top 5 recruiting classes, Buchner will be just another QB in a program that doesn't develop them.
 
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Last I checked "post" meant any deep route slanting towards the middle of the field while "flag" went to the sideline. Of course I'm aware football coaches rename the same stuff every couple of years.
A post can be toward the middle of the field or sideline. I am sure that it can go by the term flag, so I am not going to say you are wrong. The difference between a post and a corner is where the route ends up, because at its base they are the same look on a route tree.

It hasn't changed.

The post route has always been a straight ahead route that then angles toward the goal post ...a skinny post breaks into the angle sooner and tries to get in that soft spot behind the backers and in front of the safeties. Still angling toward the goal post.

The outside is a flag route. Named that because manys moons ago the pilon was a flag.

The flag route technically runs straight then a step or two toward the safety or post then breaks hard for the flag (pilon) direction.

Fly pattern is straight ahead. Go route is same thing.
Stop and go is mimicking a stop and curl route and take off in a go route trying to catch the DB biting on the curl route. Works great on an aggressive DB.

Out and up
The receiver cuts out toward the sideline but then turns up on a go route. Another trying to catch an aggressive secondary player too eager for an interception.

Flare route is a running back arcing from his backfield position to the flat. The flat is a reference to the part of the field that gets flat from a crown in the middle. (For drainage)
It's really around the 5 yard mark down field but nearing the sideline.

Spot pass is the lateral pass (not backward) quickly to the receiver. Usually caught at the line of scrimmage and since it's a pass in and around the LOS or behind, blocking can happen immediately, pre catch. Some of the trendy call it a WR screen.

TE drag is the tight end making a radius on his cut usually right out of his three point stance and dragging parallel to the line of scrimmage. Usually 5-7 yards deep.

An old school way of thought of course was most routes within a play were all decoys except for one.

Example....
The QB is under center with the two backs in the I formation. A WR to the left up on the LOS. He's covering the tackle. A receiver in the slot to left(off the LOS). To the right we have a receiver off the ball as the TE is convering the tight tackle. The ball is snapped and we're selling a B power 44...I right 44...whatever you want to call it. That's the tailback (the #4 back) following the fullback going through the 4 hole. (That's between the guard and tackle.) We're running a play action fake on this. Faking the handoff trying to draw the linebackers up.

The left receiver runs a go route, the right side runs a deep post. The tight end runs a drag route (going from right to left parallel to the LOS 5-7 yards deep. A good tight end will feel his way through the defense and get us as much yardage on this drag as he can thought. It could be much more than 7 yards.
The slot receiver is going to run a "deep in"
about 12 -15 yards downfield.

We have a lot going on in this play but it's all smoke and mirrors. Days...many days ago.... at the amateur level QB's didn't go through multiple reads on a play. They were all decoys but one route. In the above instance everyone is the decoy but the tight end. We're selling the play action to draw the linebackers up, this clears out for the tight end dragging across the field. The receivers are running off the secondary. The slot running the deep IN is trying get the attention of some defender. Hopefully the nichel back or rover follows him.

If all goes as planned this will leave a huge vacated area for the tight end to catch the ball in stride for a good chunk play.

The above type of play and similar ones were run quite a bit back in the day. In college and high school coaches didn't trust QB's and honestly a lot didn't have the ability to look at 1,2,3 receivers or go through a progression.
A lot didn't possess the ability to make all the throws to all the zones on the field.
It was decoys and throw to a specific player.

Don't laugh but there are many times...too many times...I can see Ian Ian Book's actions and he knows before the snap exactly where he's going.

I'm serious and don't laugh but someone is telling him to do exactly that on a lot of plays. Far too many plays. When that play is not open he bails. Another reason he leaves the pocket way too early.

The above is an old school passing play philosophy and believe me when I tell you Book is doing sine very similar things. Ordered to do so I'm sure....but...


What happens on said play when the receiver running a post is ignored because the slot receiver ran a deep in and the safety just bit hard on that route. Well a QB should be able to read this and now his target becomes the deep post as that receiver has now got behind the defense. We must make that throw.

Do see Book taking advantage of those type of situations? Once in a blue moon. Maybe. Mostly its him bailing on the pocket and play and running for 8 yards. Everyone gets all giddy thinking Book is now becoming dual threat but what they didn't see is the gravy train touchdown running a post pattern wide open. Just put the ball up and let him run under it.


The above scenario is missed entirely way too much by the Brian Kelly QB's. These are the adjustments mid play that beat elite teams. These things allow you to keep pace in a shootout against a great team. Scoring quickly and with ease.

We don't possess any of the above.

Business as usual.

Timid and tentative.
 
Why did Kelly recruit Phil anyway? I mean Kelly should have seen the flaws apparent to all of Phil's detractors on this site sooner than anyone on this board would have spotted them, yet Kelly still wasted a scholarship on him. Kelly cannot develop quarterbacks. Period. End of story. He has not recruited a QB, developed a QB, and seen that QB go into the NFL to become a regular starting QB. Whether a 5-star, 4-star or 3-star recruit. Hasn't done it. I know a lot of the Kelly supporters put their eggs in Buchner's basket, but that kid better have the natural talent to play above the level of coaching he is going to get at Notre Dame because it ain't much. Hopefully, Kelly will at least surround Buchner with talented playmakers at RB, TE and WR or it won't matter how good the kid is. As good as Lawrence and Tua have been, they are surrounded by sure-fire NFL talent in Higgins, Ross, Jeudy, etc., etc. If Kelly can't get that level of talent and speed into the program in the next three to four years with consistent Top 5 recruiting classes, Buchner will be just another QB in a program that doesn't develop them.
Who has Saban coached that has become a starter in the NFL? The best coach of all time and I don't think he has 1 at Alabama
 
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If he fails I will say that he is not that good. But based on 1- what I have seen, which is limited pt, Phil has done pretty well. And 2- Kelly has proven to be abismal at recognizing potential in his QBs and developing them

so my point is that Ohil has not gotten a fair shot. There have been umpteen minutes that he could have been given meaningful pt but Kelly kept Book in.
Based on that there is no way of knowing what he could have done at ND. We will see how he does at his next stop
Brian Kelly doesn't know how to get home without GPS.

It's quite absurd really that he insists on being so involved with the QB's and a decade later it's been nothing but a disastrous rollercoaster ride. A good coach would recognize his short comings, swallow his pride, and get people in to maximize the position.

But nnnnnooooooooo...BK insists thus we continue playing elite teams with an anemic offense.

Its 2018 and we scored 3 points in a playoff game. 3 points.

Pitt who has a bad damn offense scored 7 points more than we did in the slop and muck against the same Ckenson team. Hell we couldn't buy a first down.

P A T H E T I C
 
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Why did Kelly recruit Phil anyway? I mean Kelly should have seen the flaws apparent to all of Phil's detractors on this site sooner than anyone on this board would have spotted them, yet Kelly still wasted a scholarship on him. Kelly cannot develop quarterbacks. Period. End of story. He has not recruited a QB, developed a QB, and seen that QB go into the NFL to become a regular starting QB. Whether a 5-star, 4-star or 3-star recruit. Hasn't done it. I know a lot of the Kelly supporters put their eggs in Buchner's basket, but that kid better have the natural talent to play above the level of coaching he is going to get at Notre Dame because it ain't much. Hopefully, Kelly will at least surround Buchner with talented playmakers at RB, TE and WR or it won't matter how good the kid is. As good as Lawrence and Tua have been, they are surrounded by sure-fire NFL talent in Higgins, Ross, Jeudy, etc., etc. If Kelly can't get that level of talent and speed into the program in the next three to four years with consistent Top 5 recruiting classes, Buchner will be just another QB in a program that doesn't develop them.
If he can develop Book who was a 3 star and has average talent into what he is, then he'll do just fine with Buchner. His problem is not development, its recruiting the right QB. Kizer is the only one who was truly NFL material and he got drafted in the 2nd round. Buchner is even more talented. He'll be fine. We'll be fine. After we win 11 or more games again this year we'll probably add a top 8 class with Buchner and keep on rolling
 
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It hasn't changed.

The post route has always been a straight ahead route that then angles toward the goal post ...a skinny post breaks into the angle sooner and tries to get in that soft spot behind the backers and in front of the safeties. Still angling toward the goal post.

The outside is a flag route. Named that because manys moons ago the pilon was a flag.

The flag route technically runs straight then a step or two toward the safety or post then breaks hard for the flag (pilon) direction.

Fly pattern is straight ahead. Go route is same thing.
Stop and go is mimicking a stop and curl route and take off in a go route trying to catch the DB biting on the curl route. Works great on an aggressive DB.

Out and up
The receiver cuts out toward the sideline but then turns up on a go route. Another trying to catch an aggressive secondary player too eager for an interception.

Flare route is a running back arcing from his backfield position to the flat. The flat is a reference to the part of the field that gets flat from a crown in the middle. (For drainage)
It's really around the 5 yard mark down field but nearing the sideline.

Spot pass is the lateral pass (not backward) quickly to the receiver. Usually caught at the line of scrimmage and since it's a pass in and around the LOS or behind, blocking can happen immediately, pre catch. Some of the trendy call it a WR screen.

TE drag is the tight end making a radius on his cut usually right out of his three point stance and dragging parallel to the line of scrimmage. Usually 5-7 yards deep.

An old school way of thought of course was most routes within a play were all decoys except for one.

Example....
The QB is under center with the two backs in the I formation. A WR to the left up on the LOS. He's covering the tackle. A receiver in the slot to left(off the LOS). To the right we have a receiver off the ball as the TE is convering the tight tackle. The ball is snapped and we're selling a B power 44...I right 44...whatever you want to call it. That's the tailback (the #4 back) following the fullback going through the 4 hole. (That's between the guard and tackle.) We're running a play action fake on this. Faking the handoff trying to draw the linebackers up.

The left receiver runs a go route, the right side runs a deep post. The tight end runs a drag route (going from right to left parallel to the LOS 5-7 yards deep. A good tight end will feel his way through the defense and get us as much yardage on this drag as he can thought. It could be much more than 7 yards.
The slot receiver is going to run a "deep in"
about 12 -15 yards downfield.

We have a lot going on in this play but it's all smoke and mirrors. Days...many days ago.... at the amateur level QB's didn't go through multiple reads on a play. They were all decoys but one route. In the above instance everyone is the decoy but the tight end. We're selling the play action to draw the linebackers up, this clears out for the tight end dragging across the field. The receivers are running off the secondary. The slot running the deep IN is trying get the attention of some defender. Hopefully the nichel back or rover follows him.

If all goes as planned this will leave a huge vacated area for the tight end to catch the ball in stride for a good chunk play.

The above type of play and similar ones were run quite a bit back in the day. In college and high school coaches didn't trust QB's and honestly a lot didn't have the ability to look at 1,2,3 receivers or go through a progression.
A lot didn't possess the ability to make all the throws to all the zones on the field.
It was decoys and throw to a specific player.

Don't laugh but there are many times...too many times...I can see Ian Ian Book's actions and he knows before the snap exactly where he's going.

I'm serious and don't laugh but someone is telling him to do exactly that on a lot of plays. Far too many plays. When that play is not open he bails. Another reason he leaves the pocket way too early.

The above is an old school passing play philosophy and believe me when I tell you Book is doing sine very similar things. Ordered to do so I'm sure....but...


What happens on said play when the receiver running a post is ignored because the slot receiver ran a deep in and the safety just bit hard on that route. Well a QB should be able to read this and now his target becomes the deep post as that receiver has now got behind the defense. We must make that throw.

Do see Book taking advantage of those type of situations? Once in a blue moon. Maybe. Mostly its him bailing on the pocket and play and running for 8 yards. Everyone gets all giddy thinking Book is now becoming dual threat but what they didn't see is the gravy train touchdown running a post pattern wide open. Just put the ball up and let him run under it.


The above scenario is missed entirely way too much by the Brian Kelly QB's. These are the adjustments mid play that beat elite teams. These things allow you to keep pace in a shootout against a great team. Scoring quickly and with ease.

We don't possess any of the above.

Business as usual.

Timid and tentative.

Just google route tree. Post can be to the outside.
 
If he fails I will say that he is not that good. But based on 1- what I have seen, which is limited pt, Phil has done pretty well. And 2- Kelly has proven to be abismal at recognizing potential in his QBs and developing them

so my point is that Ohil has not gotten a fair shot. There have been umpteen minutes that he could have been given meaningful pt but Kelly kept Book in.
Based on that there is no way of knowing what he could have done at ND. We will see how he does at his next stop

unfortunately, for PJ 2 years w/o the kind of intensive refined coaching that PJ needed may have cost him dearly.
Most times, These kids/ their advisors really have one shot at finding the correct match: player/coaches/university. There are a lot of talented kids and to fall behind means catching up can be almost impossible.
Once PJ transfers, I doubt TR nor BK will give a R-A how he does.

luck is when opportunity meets preparation.” PJ had bad luck on both accounts!

QB’s beware.
 
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Why did Kelly recruit Phil anyway? I mean Kelly should have seen the flaws apparent to all of Phil's detractors on this site sooner than anyone on this board would have spotted them, yet Kelly still wasted a scholarship on him. Kelly cannot develop quarterbacks. Period. End of story. He has not recruited a QB, developed a QB, and seen that QB go into the NFL to become a regular starting QB. Whether a 5-star, 4-star or 3-star recruit. Hasn't done it. I know a lot of the Kelly supporters put their eggs in Buchner's basket, but that kid better have the natural talent to play above the level of coaching he is going to get at Notre Dame because it ain't much. Hopefully, Kelly will at least surround Buchner with talented playmakers at RB, TE and WR or it won't matter how good the kid is. As good as Lawrence and Tua have been, they are surrounded by sure-fire NFL talent in Higgins, Ross, Jeudy, etc., etc. If Kelly can't get that level of talent and speed into the program in the next three to four years with consistent Top 5 recruiting classes, Buchner will be just another QB in a program that doesn't develop them.

I thought Kizer became a starting NFL QB in his rookie season after coming out early.

your insertion of “regular” is an application of using weasel words.

How many programs produce “regular” starting NFL QB’s ?

On the other hand the All-Star NFLoffensive line is populated by three (3) Notre Dame players
 
Phil can't reach Book's floor. Get better or flee. He chose to leave. No worries here or in South Bend.
I don't care if you're Joe Montana, Tom Brady, or any other great quarterback who ever lived; if the offensive line is collapsing in front of you....you're going to have a bad night. One major reason the offensive line protected Book so well was he ran when there was an opening in a collapsing line. I do believe Book could lead ND to the championship if all the other pieces fell into place. I now hope BK does make Rees OC, so he has a chance to show all you naysayers again---that you're wrong. Why all the fuss over a guy deciding to leave the program because he couldn't beat a three star guy for the job. It's apart of the football experience.
"Do you think Brain Kelly made an mistake letting Phil Jurkovec go! I do.
Eric Hansen:
Brian Kelly had no control over Phil leaving.
From the practices you saw, did you think Brendon Clark was pushing Phil Jurkovec for the backup QB job 2019 and would he in 2020?
Eric Hansen: We didn't see a lot of Clark in practice, so it was hard to tell. The buzz from those in practice regularly was that the gap was larger between Ian Book and Jurkovec most of the time than the gap between Jurkovec and Clark. Was Phil ready? I think he was ready to be the No. 2 option." SBT Live Chat.
I personally don't think BK wanted another Kiser misstep. Why create a QB competition when you have a clear #1 and #2. Give your backup game time experience without further embarrassing your opponent, like Miami did against us in 1985. Check- he did that with Phil. If Phil wants to leave then I wish him the best. It's his choice to make and nobody else.
 
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I thought Kizer became a starting NFL QB in his rookie season after coming out early.

your insertion of “regular” is an application of using weasel words.

How many programs produce “regular” starting NFL QB’s ?

On the other hand the All-Star NFLoffensive line is populated by three (3) Notre Dame players
Good memory.
 
Good memory.

Kizer started by default on a team on a 50 year search for a QB.
It used to be teams groomed QB’s for 3-5 years before sending them into combat. Now they just throw them to the wolves!
 
“I've been saying for awhile now that we're not a difficult offense to play against.”

Then why do most teams give up 35+ against us?
 
How did Wimbush, Zairre and Golson fare when they transferred ?

Not well, proving that they weren’t that good to start with !

To repeat, what coach doesn’t want to start his best player at each position?

you make my point. Thank you. Kelly chose wimbush over Book. Zaire over Zkizer and Golson over Rees. Kelly is a terrible judge of QB talent and did not give Phil a chance
 
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Just google route tree. Post can be to the outside.
Huh????
I never met any coach or player named Google.

Matter of fact if I took all the board members and had a practice and the left receiver is told to run a post and he angles toward the flag....I would say what the hell are you doing? Matter of fact every player and coach that I KNOW would say...yeah...I'm not sure what he's doing there.

See let me explain...and I'm not being malicious because if you don't know...that's ok.

The reason the route angling toward the sideline...
(a flag route) isn't ALSO called a post is because it creates entirely way too much confusion for OUR players.

Are we supposed to teach this receiver he's to run a post left, post right, or a post middle? :confused: No!!

It's just more simplified to teach said receiver you're running a post on a particular play. See this way no matter where the receiver lines up in the formation if his route is the post...he and the QB always knows on that play whichever specific receiver is running a post.... he's running straight about 10 -12 yards then angling toward the goal post.
If we want a receiver to run a flag route...no matter where we have him line up on a specific play...we know that specific receiver runs straight then angles toward the FLAG.

Then everyone is on the same page.
As an example the QB knows the right receiver is running a flag route, he's going to ultimately break and angle toward the flag (pilon)
The far left receiver is running a 5 yard crossing route....the slot receiver on the left knows he's running a post. (Straight then a break toward the goal post)
The tight end is staying in to block.
We'll run an A43 playaction fake on this with the fullback and tailback (their safeties are real aggressive and killing our running game) have the tailback after the fake is going to stop and help protect.
Its simplified. Everyone including the most important one...the Qab...knows where all receivers are going. Whatever we call this particular play or no matter what we name it ...the QB and receivers are 101 percent on the same page with ease.

We aren't going to teach post left post right post middle. What the hell. The damn coach will get confused. A post no matter where a receiver lines up is a route toward the goal post. A receiver no matter where he lines up that runs a flag is a route ultimately breaking toward the flag (pilon)

All parties involved know with ease where they're going. The coach, the receiver and the QB.
We need simple because we have 75 or more plays to memorize.
 
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you make my point. Thank you. Kelly chose wimbush over Book. Zaire over Zkizer and Golson over Rees. Kelly is a terrible judge of QB talent and did not give Phil a chance
The degrees of bad that have started at ND based on this logic:

Zaire obviously should’ve started over Golson and Kizer obviously should’ve started over Zaire. How bad was Golson?

Book obviously should’ve started over Wimbush and Phil obviously should’ve started over Book. How bad was Wimbush?
 
There's more conspiracy going on here than the Demo's manufactured about Trump and the Russians. ND ought to kick Book off the team, fire BK and all his offensive coaching assistants, and plead with Phil not to transfer. It kinda plays like that wonderful old Sony and Cher classic...

 
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Exactly. This place is as toxic as it gets.

And yet you still chose to frequent this board of your volition.

Does this strike you to be a bit irrational on your part? Would you like me to explain to you the reason why you remain?

Although the comments of others in their negative opinions of Kelly cause you some degree of internal distress, this distress does not outweigh the endorphins your brain receives when defending thy fair maiden's honor. Until at which point the distress outweighs the endorphins release then you will cease in such activities.

Would you also like some insights into why you feel such propensity towards defending thy maiden's honor? I'm guessing you were raised to hold reverence towards people of perceived authority. No doubt your family lineage can be traced back to the feudal system where upon generations and generations of your ancestors were subjected to indoctrination of fealty to landlords and the church. Although these systems eventually decayed some individuals minds have developed and progress away from natural inclinations of deification of men while others remained languished.

We can no doubt surmise that the mind's of individuals within your lineage have no doubt lagged in this process. In absence of a real feudal system in place they will look for substitute deity figures such as religious figures, politicians, and maybe even football coaches.

I'm guessing you come from a very religious family which will also make you highly susceptible towards acts of deity of other men. For as we now, landlords and the church worked in construct to control the masses. It was made much the easier when they indoctrinated people to not question their authority figures and to hold them in high esteem.

While most people have evolved and will only show token signs of deity towards others (primarily for financial gains or in the presence of mortal threat) some are still remain besieged with these inner workings within their mind.

You may be able to identify them in your own life as such:

1) The overly religious (although some people simply use religion as a coping mechanism for the realities of death; distinction being their interests in religion from post adolescence to around midlife when one begins to square with their own mortality)

2) Those overly concerned with political matters, especially when those matters have in reality lose affiliations with their day to day lives. They will hold political figures with either great reverence or contempt

3) Those prone to service in the military for reasons other than financial gain

4) Those that don the athletic uniforms of other adults--especially in the absence of any type of social connection (note adolescences are excluded from any of these evaluations as they yet still have developing minds)

Hopefully this information has granted you some insights into your behaviors and will help you to decide whether you wish to remain on this board or even if there were to be other areas you may wish to adjust in your life.

Also, your propensity to lament your disapproval of the board to everyone here would show that you are apt to outward expressions of displeasure and the expectation that your circumstances change, rather than, you yourself change. You probably consider yourself to be a victim to life's circumstances on a great many occasions. This is likely frustrating for you. Just know that these outward expressions are off putting to most people and they will likely not desire to be in your presence should it occur too often.

I might also add that I am very fond of your avatar. Kelly is such a handsome fellow.
 
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