It's not just about completion percentage. It's about the offense being able to complete the big plays and the clutch plays. Clemson showed all year that you could not routinely march down the field against them. South Carolina exposed the secondary by throwing the ball over their heads. ND wasn't able to do that. Ian was only a part of that. His guys needed to make some plays as well.
Ian Book's Senior Season
- Thread starter IrishInOntario
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It's not just about completion percentage. It's about the offense being able to complete the big plays and the clutch plays. Clemson showed all year that you could not routinely march down the field against them. South Carolina exposed the secondary by throwing the ball over their heads. ND wasn't able to do that. Ian was only a part of that. His guys needed to make some plays as well.
No-one can or wants to, nor would I want them to try to decipher your incessant babble
“I think 4 points per game, over 9 starts is pretty substantial. That's more than a field goal, per game difference... To put it into perspective, it's the difference between a quality offensive team and THE HIGHEST SCORING OFFENSE (PPG) IN ND HISTORY.”
I still don’t really get how another fg or so is a “big difference” when you’re scoring 33 a game. And if scoring 3-4 less points than the highest scoring offense in ND history still makes you a “quality offense”, what’s wrong w/ that?
“Also, I did not put the entire Clemson debacle on Ian. I've never said that. The entire offense played like garbage. But he started and played that entire game. You don't get to pretend that 3 point effort did not happen, in order to skew the numbers and bolster your argument. The game was played and dragged the PPG average down nearly 5 points with Ian as the starter... That's significant, regardless of how you want to spin it... Was it all Ian's fault? Of course not. But this conversation is about Ian and he was as big a part of that offensive implosion as anyone else on that offense.”
So you’re trying to tell me that you and the rest of the book bashers haven’t put the bulk of the blame on book throughout your posts when referring to the Clemson game? Forgive me if I’m wrong, but I haven’t heard the usual suspects mention any other facet of the offense not playing well. As a matter of fact, some say the line had nothing to do w/ our demise. And spare me the spin talk, I pulled up our scores from the regular season because someone had mentioned that defenses were loading the box cuz book couldn’t throw deep (or even intermediate, which is laughable) so I was just trying to figure out how we could’ve scored 37 a game under book when teams supposedly were taking advantage of the “weakness”. The bowl game was irrelevant to the topic since the claim was that teams took away our balance by loading the box. Until Clemson, no one really stopped us so that is another made up narrative.
I still don’t really get how another fg or so is a “big difference” when you’re scoring 33 a game. And if scoring 3-4 less points than the highest scoring offense in ND history still makes you a “quality offense”, what’s wrong w/ that?
“Also, I did not put the entire Clemson debacle on Ian. I've never said that. The entire offense played like garbage. But he started and played that entire game. You don't get to pretend that 3 point effort did not happen, in order to skew the numbers and bolster your argument. The game was played and dragged the PPG average down nearly 5 points with Ian as the starter... That's significant, regardless of how you want to spin it... Was it all Ian's fault? Of course not. But this conversation is about Ian and he was as big a part of that offensive implosion as anyone else on that offense.”
So you’re trying to tell me that you and the rest of the book bashers haven’t put the bulk of the blame on book throughout your posts when referring to the Clemson game? Forgive me if I’m wrong, but I haven’t heard the usual suspects mention any other facet of the offense not playing well. As a matter of fact, some say the line had nothing to do w/ our demise. And spare me the spin talk, I pulled up our scores from the regular season because someone had mentioned that defenses were loading the box cuz book couldn’t throw deep (or even intermediate, which is laughable) so I was just trying to figure out how we could’ve scored 37 a game under book when teams supposedly were taking advantage of the “weakness”. The bowl game was irrelevant to the topic since the claim was that teams took away our balance by loading the box. Until Clemson, no one really stopped us so that is another made up narrative.
No. I have not put Book on blast for the Clemson game more than the other offensive players, relatively speaking. I've mentioned about 5 crucial plays that I think he missed, which makes sense to anyone reasonably analyzing the game, because he's the quarterback, touches the ball on every snap, and, thus, has more opportunity to make an obvious mistake than a player who might on be targeted a handful of times, or might only have a handful of carries.
So when I point out two significant errors Claypool made and 5 significant errors Book made, I'm not attacking the kid, I'm just pointing out what the film shows.
You are free to present Ian's stats from the season in a manner that leaves out by far his worst performance. I'd rather look at his entire season, and I would especially look at his play vs a playoff caliber team, given that the ND fan base's expectation is a quarterback AND OFFENSE that can produce in playoff caliber matchups.
Ian Book faced 1 defense that was worth a damn last year and that was Clemson. He did not play in the Michigan game so we don't know what we have yet against upper echelon defensive teams. We know that we have a guy that can crush the teams he's supposed to, scores enough points to win against the teams that pose a challenge and he's 0-1, with 3 points scored against top competition.
This year Ian will have a chance to prove he can do it against not only the Virginia Tech's and Stanford's of the world, decent, top 40 teams... But this year he plays @Georgia and @Michigan, two teams that are projected to be playoff contenders. Start hanging 30+ points on those teams and we'll know we have a guy that can hang with the top teams. He'll have a chance to ocut dual Jake Fromm and Shea Patterson head-to-head, two guys ahead of him in most Heisman prognostications and he'll face capable quarterbacks vs Virginia, USC and Stanford. He'll likely have to be better than them for ND to win as well.
Ian has a chance to make a real statement and he has plenty of skilled weapons and an offensive line that should be improved, with which to do it.
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IIO,
How many times must you be reminded that a QB needs time and that a successful team needs balance.
It’s not all on Book’s shoulders.
"Time" isn't just about great pass blocking, time is about trusting that blocking as well.
Take the first half of the Pitt game for example. Pitt kept firing off the edge and Ian Book kept fleeing from the pocket, into the pressure. He was his own worst enemy when it game to eliminating his time. Outside of a couple rub routes, the biggest adjustment ND made at halftime of that game was getting Ian to step up into the clean middle of the pocket, and guess what? He found more time.
Watch the Clemson film. Ian got back to doing some of the things he did against Pitt when it came to fleeing outside and getting pressured by the ends. I've already acknowledged that his offensive line was outplayed, but at times he also fled from pressure that was not there.
As for balance... Notre Dame had an NFL running back (Williams) that ran for more than 6 yards per carry last year. They had a wide receiver that is going to start from day 1 in the NFL (Boykin). The #2 wide receiver (Claypool) is better than Boykin. Chris Finke was highly capable in the slot.
Ian vastly improved the QB play in the offense, but let's not act for a second like he isn't (and wasn't) surrounded in talent. There are more NFL guys on ND's offensive depth chart than probably 90% of teams in college football. A lot of guys have a lot less to work with.
Ian conducted the #27 scoring offense in the nation last year. That was a great start for a first year starter. Now the question becomes can he orchestrate a top 10 group?
throughout the season ? he had more than that in the va tech game alone. it's not his strength and he needs to improve on it period to take the next step.
i do get it statman. stats can easily be skewed to support ones position. like i posted before the only things Book and Brady have in common is breathing oxygen and and the pigment of their skin.
no. it helps but history has shown your claim not to be the case. i certainly wouldn't put Tate in that category anyway.
bashers ? you're being totally ridiculous Mr. Book. criticism is fair, it comes with the territory. no one here has EVER said Ian Book is a bad player. I've consistently said he is a very good college QB and that ND is very fortunate to have him. Do he need to improve in areas ? absolutely. that can be said for every player. Do I think he is an elite level QB ? I do not. I'm certainly hope Ian is not as soft as you are when the staff points out to him many of the same things posters have said here.
football 101 is lost on him. he continues to "debunk the myth " that he knows anything about football.
Yep, no clue where the defensiveness comes from but whatever.
An Ian book that doesn't improve this year I think ND wins 8-10 games. An improved Book in the areas we've discussed ND wins 10-12 games. Now, all this goes out the window if we have more significant injuries, but I think we can manage through the ones so far.
An Ian book that doesn't improve this year I think ND wins 8-10 games. An improved Book in the areas we've discussed ND wins 10-12 games. Now, all this goes out the window if we have more significant injuries, but I think we can manage through the ones so far.
“bashers ? you're being totally ridiculous Mr. Book. criticism is fair, it comes with the territory. no one here has EVER said Ian Book is a bad player. I've consistently said he is a very good college QB and that ND is very fortunate to have him. Do he need to improve in areas ? absolutely. that can be said for every player. Do I think he is an elite level QB ? I do not. I'm certainly hope Ian is not as soft as you are when the staff points out to him many of the same things posters have said here.”
You found me out, echo, I’m soft cuz I’m pointing out that some of your criticism of him is unfounded like when you tried to peddle the BS about how he needed to improve not only on his deep throws but also his intermediate throws. That’s just one example of some of the uninformed made up criticism of him. But by all means, be the internet tough guy by calling me soft if it makes you feel better. I think you should stay in your lane though, you don’t know shit about qb play. Stick to o-line play, you mentioned about 1000 times on this board that that’s where you played. Stick to pulling guards and gap integrity, that’s more up your alley. Leave the qb talk to the ones that know what they’re talking about.
You found me out, echo, I’m soft cuz I’m pointing out that some of your criticism of him is unfounded like when you tried to peddle the BS about how he needed to improve not only on his deep throws but also his intermediate throws. That’s just one example of some of the uninformed made up criticism of him. But by all means, be the internet tough guy by calling me soft if it makes you feel better. I think you should stay in your lane though, you don’t know shit about qb play. Stick to o-line play, you mentioned about 1000 times on this board that that’s where you played. Stick to pulling guards and gap integrity, that’s more up your alley. Leave the qb talk to the ones that know what they’re talking about.
“You are free to present Ian's stats from the season in a manner that leaves out by far his worst performance”
Once again, I left it out because the claim was that teams were onto us during the season and loaded the box cuz they didn’t respect our deep ball. If you can’t understand that, I don’t really care, but I didn’t leave the Clemson game out for any reason other than it wasn’t a regular season score which is what the bullshit claim was about.
Once again, I left it out because the claim was that teams were onto us during the season and loaded the box cuz they didn’t respect our deep ball. If you can’t understand that, I don’t really care, but I didn’t leave the Clemson game out for any reason other than it wasn’t a regular season score which is what the bullshit claim was about.
They didn't just load the box, they took away quick passes and just kept a single high safety a lot of times typically over to the field side, boykin didn't have much safety help. I dare teams to try that vs chase this year. This made the middle of the field wide open and aggressive throws downfield to the outside. From the pitt game on they were there ALL DAY, but we only completed a few of them. That is why NDs scoring decreased each month, that is why we struggled in the first halves of many games 2nd half of the season.
Heck we only scored a TD on the first drive of the game under book once.
Wimbush started 4 games, we scored 4 opening drive TDs.
Again, not all blame on book, this is where some of my beef with long comes. Something is up with book and long last year where we just weren't ready to execute first halves.
As much as I liked Ian books season last year I got to admit a lot of red flags are starting to show for a number of reasons.
1. I have a lot of respect for the guys at PFF who do the film review and grades they are the best scouts in the business with publicly available information and they have book at number 18 out of all quarterbacks. That is a really middling grade / ranking. Apparently book didn't really impress at all on film or not to the level that his stats might indicate.
2. Last year I thought boykin was an average wide receiver but it turns out he's one of the most athletic wide receivers in the country given his SPARQ score and given his offseason in Baltimore. he's killing it this offseason and is a big-time sleeper in fantasy pick football this year. I thought books issues with the long ball we're more of a product of lack of weapons but between boykin and Chase claypool both of these guys are really emerging as big-time athletes/WRs the last year or two.
3. I haven't heard a single positive report out of camp this year about books performance and I follow all of the major media outlets that cover Notre Dame. Granted book is already established himself as a starter but after all the hype about his offseason I was hoping for some really positive reviews this camp.I don't put a whole lot of stock on camp performance but it is a little worrying that nobody who has seen him in camp hasn't had anything good to say.
4. I have a high level of respect for the opinion of this community and a lot of people whose opinion I respect aren't totally sold on Ian book or his upside this season
5. I'm really worried about the suspensions and injuries at wide receiver and tight end this offseason. Even chase claypool has been banged up. Ian book doesn't really have the type of game that creates a whole lot of dynamic plays his best skills are about getting the ball to his weapons and letting them make plays but we're kind of running out of weapons.
As a result of all of this, my opinion on Ian book has definitely faded a little bit and I'm not as confident that he's the surefire top player on the team like I was coming into fall camp. I probably move him down to 6th behind okwara Kareem Gilman claypool and Elliot.
I had him graded as a top 10 quarterback coming into the year but I'd probably move him down into the teens now as more of a top 20 quarterback
None of this is to say that I don't think he's an excellent player just that the language that I use in terms of him being a potential Superstar and Heisman trophy winner I don't feel comfortable using that kind of language anymore.
1. I have a lot of respect for the guys at PFF who do the film review and grades they are the best scouts in the business with publicly available information and they have book at number 18 out of all quarterbacks. That is a really middling grade / ranking. Apparently book didn't really impress at all on film or not to the level that his stats might indicate.
2. Last year I thought boykin was an average wide receiver but it turns out he's one of the most athletic wide receivers in the country given his SPARQ score and given his offseason in Baltimore. he's killing it this offseason and is a big-time sleeper in fantasy pick football this year. I thought books issues with the long ball we're more of a product of lack of weapons but between boykin and Chase claypool both of these guys are really emerging as big-time athletes/WRs the last year or two.
3. I haven't heard a single positive report out of camp this year about books performance and I follow all of the major media outlets that cover Notre Dame. Granted book is already established himself as a starter but after all the hype about his offseason I was hoping for some really positive reviews this camp.I don't put a whole lot of stock on camp performance but it is a little worrying that nobody who has seen him in camp hasn't had anything good to say.
4. I have a high level of respect for the opinion of this community and a lot of people whose opinion I respect aren't totally sold on Ian book or his upside this season
5. I'm really worried about the suspensions and injuries at wide receiver and tight end this offseason. Even chase claypool has been banged up. Ian book doesn't really have the type of game that creates a whole lot of dynamic plays his best skills are about getting the ball to his weapons and letting them make plays but we're kind of running out of weapons.
As a result of all of this, my opinion on Ian book has definitely faded a little bit and I'm not as confident that he's the surefire top player on the team like I was coming into fall camp. I probably move him down to 6th behind okwara Kareem Gilman claypool and Elliot.
I had him graded as a top 10 quarterback coming into the year but I'd probably move him down into the teens now as more of a top 20 quarterback
None of this is to say that I don't think he's an excellent player just that the language that I use in terms of him being a potential Superstar and Heisman trophy winner I don't feel comfortable using that kind of language anymore.
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Book has been getting great reviews of knowledge/confidence in leading the offense. Reviews are that he is fine downfield, but nothing special. I haven't heard of any improvements in the pocket, I've heard that he actually still scrambles too fast. That is where my concerns come from. I think his pocket presence improving would partially solve most of his over the middle and downfield issues.
We'll see in less than 2 weeks. He should light up Louisville D.
What was false that I stated? Everything I said was 100% factual and can be verified. I'm not pining for Wimbush, I just want Long and Book to be better than they were last year, last year on O they were not good enough to win a championship, when healthy with Love, we had a championship caliber D last year.
To try and put a bow on this, I have always said that whether he can repeat last year’s regular season performance is no given. What I’m hoping for is that he can, and along the way he cleans up the deep ball and any other issues that he has. My main beef is this idea that his play was somewhat holding us back and that he was a concern. If he regresses and can’t hit deep balls to the point where it’s killing our overall offense, I’ll be first in line to say that the worries and concerns were all warranted and to give Phil a shot if he’s ready. But all I have to go on is his play last year and if he has a natural progression of improvement, I think we’ll be in a good spot again.
Our schedule ended up being crazy easy for an ND schedule last year. Nd had an elite D. If you promise me an elite D again Nd wins 10 or 11 with book like he was last year. Concerned at mlb, second corner, and book being able to push the ball downfield.
Last year I was concerned at safety, center, and our tackles. Safety play was great, center bad, and tackles were good and bad at times.
Also, second year qb regression under kelly. I think this is a huge year offensively for long and kelly. If book isn’t noticeably improved I will have major issues/questions, and so should Jack.
You don’t get it. You delude yourself into thinking you get it, but you really don’t.
Stats and analytics can’t be easily skewed, especially the stats I provided and referenced.
That you haven’t figured out the bigger picture revealed in the Brady stats indicates that you’re not getting it.
I’ll repeat what I previously stated that you didn’t comprehend.
The Brady stats weren’t meant to primarily compare Brady to Book they were meant to illustrate a far more important point that has escaped you to date.
Hard to believe that such a self proclaimed expert as yourself can’t understand the tactical story that the stats reveal.
So it’s your stated position that you don’t need speed receivers to be successful with deep passes ? ? ?
Tate’s 40 time is 4.42, Fuller’s is 4.32
And you hold yourself out to be a football genius. ? ? ?
You must be kidding......... yourself
In the VT Game Book was 25 for 35, for a 71.4 % completion percentage.
Good for 271 yards with the longest pass being 56 yards and 7.74 YPA.
Had he completed 6 more passes he would have been 31 for 35 for an 89 % completion percentage.
Who, in this universe throws for 89 %, especially against a highly touted defense ?
Vtechs defense was bad last year. They gave up 49 points to old dominion and gtech, also gave up 52 to Pitt.
What smart people are saying is Nd would be better off if book completed a few percentage points less of his passes but completed more downfield and over middle for explosive plays.
Prior to the VT game VT’s defense was being hyped as being very solid.
“Smart people” ?
Who are these “smart people”
Do you really think that it’s that easy to complete a 30, 40 or 50 yard pass ?
You do realize that in order to complete passes of that length that they have to be schemed, inserted into the game plan then called during the game, right ?
OR, are you suggesting that Book should go rogue ?
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