No one can declare how many passes of a specific yardage should be thrown. Too many variables. That's as dumb as asking how many jet sweeps, off tackles or RPO's should be run.
Ian Book's Senior Season
- Thread starter IrishInOntario
- Start date
“Who’s clamoring for that ?”
Haven’t you been reading the threads on Book ?
Poster after poster has been stating that Book has to throw more long passes
“More efficient”
He completed 68.2 % of his passes, a statistic lowered by his 50 % completion percentage against Clemson.
His YPA was 8.4
He led or was close to leading the country in efficiency throughout the season.
I guess I just don’t know what the definition of “efficient” is when it comes to a college QB, so why don’t you quantify it for us.
Efficient has not been a word used to criticize book. It’s been pocket presence, downfield throws, more aggressive over the middle.
Don’t make stuff up please
Obviously you haven’t been paying attention to any posts.
Poster after poster has clamored for Book to throw more long passes.
The NFL keeps 20+ and 40+ yard stats, so I asked, “Out of 31 attempts per game, how many passes for 20+ yards and 40+ yards should Book throw ?
Despite clamoring for Book to throw more 20+ and 40+ yard throws, not one of those clamoring for more 20+ and 40+ throws would quantify “more”.
What those clamoring for Book to throw more 20+ and 40+ yard pass plays don’t seem to understand is that he doesn’t craft the game plan and he doesn’t call the plays.
Citing Brady’s numerous stats should have enlightened those with the capacity to understand their significance in terms of the efficiency of passing game. But sometimes the simplest of concepts can’t be understood by those claiming to be experts.
Are you that stupid ?
Didn’t you just read echowaker’s above critique calling for Book to be more efficient ?
“Downfield throws” ? ? ?
You wouldn’t tell us how many downfield throws he should make out of 31 attempts!
Don’t you read what you type and post.
He completed 68.2 % of his passes for an 8.4 YPA
“More aggressive over the middle” ? ? ?
What does that mean ?
Who calls the plays ?
You seem to like calling posters derogatory names and/generally having a sense of self importance.
If you like it here, it might be a good idea to stop calling persons names or insulting them.
“A sense of Self importance” ? ? ?
I know nothing about football compared to you and others.
I’ve been told that on numerous occasions, hence I don’t have a sense of self importance.
Should a poster get away with making a false statement ?
Deliberate or unintentional ?
Should misrepresentations be ignored ?
I don’t mind you, echowaker, get nasty and others assigning labels or calling me names, which you’ve done, so stop with the righteous indignation, it’s just a diversionary tactic when you don’t have a reasoned position.
I would love to see how this debate would turn out at a bar with some heavy alcohol drinking going on. I'll take a video of it and post it to Twitter and watch it go viral.
A bunch of middle-aged drunk dudes getting belligerent over a statistic of a college football player.
This has been great entertainment.
A bunch of middle-aged drunk dudes getting belligerent over a statistic of a college football player.
This has been great entertainment.
I would love to see how this debate would turn out at a bar with some heavy alcohol drinking going on. I'll take a video of it and post it to Twitter and watch it go viral.
A bunch of middle-aged drunk dudes getting belligerent over a statistic of a college football player.
This has been great entertainment.
Sorry to disappoint you but heavy alcohol drinking isn’t my thing and I learned long ago, not to argue with a drunk or a crazy person....
... in person.
“Who's s clamoring for that ? All I've said is he needs to be more efficient on those throws. That would put less people in the box and allow the offense greater opportunities to be balanced and productive. Football 101 to everyone but you I guess.”
So you’re saying that the three, maybe four misses on deep balls throughout the season resulted in teams putting more people in the box? Lol. Another ridiculous knock that holds zero water. I’m sure opposing coaches were all a flutter watching the tapes licking their chops saying to themselves “this guy can’t throw the deep ball cuz he missed finke for a wide open td, let’s load the box”. Give me a break.
So you’re saying that the three, maybe four misses on deep balls throughout the season resulted in teams putting more people in the box? Lol. Another ridiculous knock that holds zero water. I’m sure opposing coaches were all a flutter watching the tapes licking their chops saying to themselves “this guy can’t throw the deep ball cuz he missed finke for a wide open td, let’s load the box”. Give me a break.
Changing gears a little bit here, anybody else noticed last year whenever Notre Dame was in third and long last year when they needed to pass the ball for a first down EG 3rd and 7 etc.
Ian book would make the right read and deliver a catchable pass to the right person for a first down at a really high success rate?
I'm not sure if that bore itself out in the stats would be cool to be able to check on that but it is really awesome having a quarterback that in any passing situation you just have this high degree of confidence that he's going to connect and keep the chains moving.
And based on some of his other strengths like anticipating the rush escaping the pocket resetting the play throwing the ball away etc Notre Dame isn't in too many third-down situations where they can't convert
I imagine that's how It feels as a fan of the New Orleans saints with Drew Brees at the helm. you know he's going to make the right read and get the ball out quickly to the right place for a first down
Ian book would make the right read and deliver a catchable pass to the right person for a first down at a really high success rate?
I'm not sure if that bore itself out in the stats would be cool to be able to check on that but it is really awesome having a quarterback that in any passing situation you just have this high degree of confidence that he's going to connect and keep the chains moving.
And based on some of his other strengths like anticipating the rush escaping the pocket resetting the play throwing the ball away etc Notre Dame isn't in too many third-down situations where they can't convert
I imagine that's how It feels as a fan of the New Orleans saints with Drew Brees at the helm. you know he's going to make the right read and get the ball out quickly to the right place for a first down
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yes more efficient on the intermediate and deep throws. you know, the ones the staff said he needs to improve on ? comprehension still not a strength of yours i see.
finally i agree with something you posted. Book does not make the gameplan or call the plays. those are created based on your teams personnel and their abilities. if Book has improved his ability to be more efficient on the intermediate and deep throws, especially in the middle of the field one would guess we'd see more of them. time will tell. last year he was not.
really ? studying film is all about tendencies and evaluating the opponents strength and weaknesses. NO team feared ND throwing the deep ball down the middle last year.
oh geez, first comparing Book to Brady now to Brees ? good lord. Brees throws one of the most accurate deep balls in history. Book is a very good college QB and ND is fortunate to have him. Hopefully he takes the next step.
“really ? studying film is all about tendencies and evaluating the opponents strength and weaknesses. NO team feared ND throwing the deep ball down the middle last year.”
No $hit it’s about studying tendencies but if you think teams decided to load the box cuz book missed a few deep balls, you’re full of it. How we were able to average 37 points a game under book while teams were “loading the box cuz book can’t throw the deep ball” is quite the quandary. He missed a few and will miss a few more, just as every qb does once in a while. The fact that we didn’t throw many to begin w/, magnifies the misses, but by all means, continue to make a mountain out of a mole hill.
No $hit it’s about studying tendencies but if you think teams decided to load the box cuz book missed a few deep balls, you’re full of it. How we were able to average 37 points a game under book while teams were “loading the box cuz book can’t throw the deep ball” is quite the quandary. He missed a few and will miss a few more, just as every qb does once in a while. The fact that we didn’t throw many to begin w/, magnifies the misses, but by all means, continue to make a mountain out of a mole hill.
any comparison that anybody makes to any player is going to be to someone that is famous or else the comparison would make no sense
Obviously Drew Brees is a quarterback on another planet compared to Ian book (this should go without saying).
I'd imagine fans of the New Orleans saints are pretty optimistic on 3rd and passing down situations that Brees is going to make the right read and deliver an accurate pass and keep the chains moving.
Was I the only one who noticed or experienced this optimism on 3rd downs with book at quarterback last season?
Obviously Drew Brees is a quarterback on another planet compared to Ian book (this should go without saying).
I'd imagine fans of the New Orleans saints are pretty optimistic on 3rd and passing down situations that Brees is going to make the right read and deliver an accurate pass and keep the chains moving.
Was I the only one who noticed or experienced this optimism on 3rd downs with book at quarterback last season?
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Notre Dame averaged 32.9 PPG in Ian Book's 9 starts last year. Nowhere near 37 PPG.
ND finished 33rd in scoring offense last year at 31.4 PPG. If you count only the games that Book started ND would have finished tied for 27th (32.9 ppg) with Florida International.
ND had a solid offense last year. Had Book started from the outset, they probably would have been a top 25 unit. But there is is a big difference between 32.9 PPG and 37 PPG. That's what Georgia averaged and they finished 13th nationally in scoring offense.
Chaseball,
There’s a lesson to be learned from the analysis of the stats and so far no one has come close to understanding the analytics and the lesson to be learned from the stats.
I think everyone should have to post their name and/or social media on forums..... would really slow down the BS, name calling, and bragging about being a football coach in waiting.I would love to see how this debate would turn out at a bar with some heavy alcohol drinking going on. I'll take a video of it and post it to Twitter and watch it go viral.
A bunch of middle-aged drunk dudes getting belligerent over a statistic of a college football player.
This has been great entertainment.
Echowaker,
You don’t get It !
Citing Brady wasn’t intended to compare the two QB’s.
There’s a loftier lesson to be learned from analyzing Brady’s stats that you and everyone else failed to recognize.
Since you know so much more about football than me, there’s no sense in me trying to educate you about the value and message contained in the analytics.
Since I know very little about football don’t you have to have very good to great downfield speed receivers like Fuller and Tate to throw deep balls effectively ?
So now we are saying that book was bad in the intermediate passing game as well?
deep passing game I'll grant you even though I haven't seen any concrete stats to back that notion up. I put weight on wisdom of crowds so even though I didn't notice some massive deficiency in books deep passing game I'll take everybody else's word for it.
But the intermediate passing game was Ian books bread and butter last year. Book absolutely destroyed secondaries in the intermediate passing game. Those back shoulder throws were money and so were those 10 yard post and 10 yard out routes.
I still can't believe the amount of criticism this player is getting maybe I was watching someone completely different last year than everybody else that is certainly possible but oh my God people this guy was clearly the best player on offense last year and clearly one of the best players on the team this year why in the world are we spending 10 pages having to defend every bit of minutia regarding his game?
there's 84 other players on the roster all with a huge laundry list of weaknesses but yet we're choosing to criticize the hell out of the best player on the team it just makes no sense to me
deep passing game I'll grant you even though I haven't seen any concrete stats to back that notion up. I put weight on wisdom of crowds so even though I didn't notice some massive deficiency in books deep passing game I'll take everybody else's word for it.
But the intermediate passing game was Ian books bread and butter last year. Book absolutely destroyed secondaries in the intermediate passing game. Those back shoulder throws were money and so were those 10 yard post and 10 yard out routes.
I still can't believe the amount of criticism this player is getting maybe I was watching someone completely different last year than everybody else that is certainly possible but oh my God people this guy was clearly the best player on offense last year and clearly one of the best players on the team this year why in the world are we spending 10 pages having to defend every bit of minutia regarding his game?
there's 84 other players on the roster all with a huge laundry list of weaknesses but yet we're choosing to criticize the hell out of the best player on the team it just makes no sense to me
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Notre Dame was 88th in s&p plus offense ranking with Brandon wimbush. In the games remaining with Ian book Notre Dame's offense ranked 16th and ultimately finish somewhere in the top 25.
The switch from Brandon wimbush to book in season was considered one of the biggest personnel changes in all of college football in 2018 in terms of its impact.
Cool fact the guy who wrote the article is the guy who created the s&p plus ranking system himself: I copied and pasted the part about Notre Dame / Ian book below:
This is probably the most important change of the season.
Through three games, Notre Dame was 3-0 but underwhelming. The Fighting Irish had 24 points against Michigan, which is impressive, but they managed just 24 and 22 against Ball State and Vanderbilt. With Brandon Wimbush behind center, the Irish offense seemed to have a firm ceiling. So Brian Kelly promoted Ian Book.
- Notre Dame’s S&P+ rating if it had only played the first three games: plus-12.3, 20th overall. The Irish are third in Def. S&P+ in these games but a ghastly 88th on offense.
- Notre Dame’s S&P+ rating if it had only played the last six games: plus-23.8, sixth overall and hundredths of a point behind fifth-place Georgia. The defense remains third, but the offense is now 16th.
https://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2018/11/9/18075148/college-football-teams-most-improved-ian-book-notre-dame
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I think he was an excellent intermediate passer. I have no complaints there.
I would argue that Julian Okwara is the best player on the team. JMO.
PFF did their top 30 quarterback rankings for the 2019 season. these guys basically grade every single play of a player and then compare and contrast. Trevor Lawrence came in at number 1. Ian book came in at number 18. Sorry I don't have a link I read about the ranking at a Wake Forest blog and only a couple of players were mentioned.
this ranking is a bit disappointing.I have a lot of respect for the grades and ratings that PFF does but their ratings are based more on the player's film and less on the stats
this ranking is a bit disappointing.I have a lot of respect for the grades and ratings that PFF does but their ratings are based more on the player's film and less on the stats
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Based on physical and athletic talent, Book is really not notably special. If he was at Purdue, Rutgers or Indiana, my guess is no one would know who he is. But, he is the QB at ND and that is a huge matter.
“Notre Dame averaged 32.9 PPG in Ian Book's 9 starts last year. Nowhere near 37 PPG.
ND finished 33rd in scoring offense last year at 31.4 PPG. If you count only the games that Book started ND would have finished tied for 27th (32.9 ppg) with Florida International.
ND had a solid offense last year. Had Book started from the outset, they probably would have been a top 25 unit. But there is is a big difference between 32.9 PPG and 37 PPG. That's what Georgia averaged and they finished 13th nationally in scoring offense.”
During the regular season, we averaged 36.6 points in games that book started. That’s what we averaged when supposedly the book was out and teams were loading the box cuz they weren’t afraid of book’s deep ball. That is pure BS. And if that’s what they did (and it wasn’t), it didn’t work out too well for them.
When you factor in the Clemson debacle, the average goes down to around 33 but unlike you and some others here, I don’t blame the 3 points scored all on book. It was a collective offensive dud, yet I rarely hear anyone talk about the wrs, the oline or the playcalling. As a matter of fact, they place no blame on the o-line, as if they kept a steady pocket all night and book was just running scared all night w/ receivers wide open all over the place. That is a total misrepresentation of what happened. Did book have some bad plays? No doubt, a lot more than he had all season, but he wasn’t as bad a some say he was. No one brings up the big drops either, none bigger than the very first drive. And no one mentions the play calling, which wasn’t very good. I will say that three of the four facets could’ve been better had we not had any drops. Take away the drops and the qb goes from 17-34 to 21/22-34 instead. That also makes the playcalling not as glaring a negative. So no drops automatically makes the wr corps better but also makes the rest of the units better instead of all four facets not playing up to par. I still say the o-line didn’t open holes on enough of our rushing attempts, but in their defense, after Clemson took the big lead, they pinned their ears back so there wasn’t a lot the o-line could do at that point.
As for it being a “big difference” between scoring 33 & 37 ppg, I really don’t see what you’re talking about. It’s a little over a fg more per game, certainly not anything “big”, especially when we’re talking about those numbers. It’s not as though a team that scores 33 points a game is struggling offensively. Throw in the fact that we had a really good defense, and it’s no wonder we played more of a ball control short passing game to play to the qb’s strengths and keep the other offenses off the field. One last thing, had book started the first three games, I think we would’ve averaged more than 37 throughout the regular season.
ND finished 33rd in scoring offense last year at 31.4 PPG. If you count only the games that Book started ND would have finished tied for 27th (32.9 ppg) with Florida International.
ND had a solid offense last year. Had Book started from the outset, they probably would have been a top 25 unit. But there is is a big difference between 32.9 PPG and 37 PPG. That's what Georgia averaged and they finished 13th nationally in scoring offense.”
During the regular season, we averaged 36.6 points in games that book started. That’s what we averaged when supposedly the book was out and teams were loading the box cuz they weren’t afraid of book’s deep ball. That is pure BS. And if that’s what they did (and it wasn’t), it didn’t work out too well for them.
When you factor in the Clemson debacle, the average goes down to around 33 but unlike you and some others here, I don’t blame the 3 points scored all on book. It was a collective offensive dud, yet I rarely hear anyone talk about the wrs, the oline or the playcalling. As a matter of fact, they place no blame on the o-line, as if they kept a steady pocket all night and book was just running scared all night w/ receivers wide open all over the place. That is a total misrepresentation of what happened. Did book have some bad plays? No doubt, a lot more than he had all season, but he wasn’t as bad a some say he was. No one brings up the big drops either, none bigger than the very first drive. And no one mentions the play calling, which wasn’t very good. I will say that three of the four facets could’ve been better had we not had any drops. Take away the drops and the qb goes from 17-34 to 21/22-34 instead. That also makes the playcalling not as glaring a negative. So no drops automatically makes the wr corps better but also makes the rest of the units better instead of all four facets not playing up to par. I still say the o-line didn’t open holes on enough of our rushing attempts, but in their defense, after Clemson took the big lead, they pinned their ears back so there wasn’t a lot the o-line could do at that point.
As for it being a “big difference” between scoring 33 & 37 ppg, I really don’t see what you’re talking about. It’s a little over a fg more per game, certainly not anything “big”, especially when we’re talking about those numbers. It’s not as though a team that scores 33 points a game is struggling offensively. Throw in the fact that we had a really good defense, and it’s no wonder we played more of a ball control short passing game to play to the qb’s strengths and keep the other offenses off the field. One last thing, had book started the first three games, I think we would’ve averaged more than 37 throughout the regular season.
“if Book has improved his ability to be more efficient on the intermediate and deep throws”
More made up BS to fit the book bashing narrative. Book was money on the short and intermediate passes. He missed some gimmee deep balls, that’s it. But go ahead and continue the fake news.
More made up BS to fit the book bashing narrative. Book was money on the short and intermediate passes. He missed some gimmee deep balls, that’s it. But go ahead and continue the fake news.
I think 4 points per game, over 9 starts is pretty substantial. That's more than a field goal, per game difference... To put it into perspective, it's the difference between a quality offensive team and THE HIGHEST SCORING OFFENSE (PPG) IN ND HISTORY.
Also, I did not put the entire Clemson debacle on Ian. I've never said that. The entire offense played like garbage. But he started and played that entire game. You don't get to pretend that 3 point effort did not happen, in order to skew the numbers and bolster your argument. The game was played and dragged the PPG average down nearly 5 points with Ian as the starter... That's significant, regardless of how you want to spin it... Was it all Ian's fault? Of course not. But this conversation is about Ian and he was as big a part of that offensive implosion as anyone else on that offense.
How do you account for dropped passes and/or PI in his stats in the Clemson game ?
poor Drew Brees, every time a 6’ish QB comes along he is the next Drew Brees. Like Brees grows on trees.
Drew Brees is a Hall of Fame QB!
I just tried to read all the Threads and opinions and they were very informative.
I still think that just how well Book and ND do will depend on the support Book Gets.
If will depend more on the offensive line and the running game and the ends than on Book.
Get the running game going and give Book protection and he and ND will have a great season.
If The QB has to make big plays to keep us in games, it will be a long season.
I still think that just how well Book and ND do will depend on the support Book Gets.
If will depend more on the offensive line and the running game and the ends than on Book.
Get the running game going and give Book protection and he and ND will have a great season.
If The QB has to make big plays to keep us in games, it will be a long season.
I account for them by saying, as I did above, that it was a total offensive implosion, Book included. The offensive line got whooped. The running backs lost composure at times and missed holes they hit in other games, Mack and Claypool dropped passes that high school wide receivers catch routinely and Ian had a horrible fumble, missed a wide open Miles Boykin for a touchdown on a post route, scrambled into pressure off the edge at times (like against Pitt) when staying in the pocket was the right thing to do, and missed badly on a wide open slant to Boykin on 4th down that he usually hits in his sleep.
It wasn't just Ian. It was about 10-12 plays, that ND failed to capitalize on when they had a chance and against a team like Clemson, that's the difference between 20+ points and 3 points.
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It’s almost beyond belief how incredibly obtuse you are.
Have someone explain my post to you.
I don’t disagree.
Book had a 50 % completion percentage at 17-34 versus Clemson, but when you add in the drops his completion percentage, total yards and YPA increase.
If you exchange 4 drops for completions his completion percentage leaps to 62 %.
I’ll have to watch the tape again to determine the impact on yardage.
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