Agreeing to play 5 conference games is not close to the same as being in a conference. You sound a bit desperate. Like a teen who is arguing since his girlfriend has gone to third she might as well go all the way.
Would ND join the ACC if it took that to keep ACC schools from bolting?
- Thread starter Win5002
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Agreeing to play 5 conference games is not close to the same as being in a conference. You sound a bit desperate. Like a teen who is arguing since his girlfriend has gone to third she might as well go all the way.
That's kind of disingenuous. We are not in the ACC standings, and the games we play do not count in the standings for the ACC teams. We are just an out-of-conference game that each ACC team knows they get one out of every three seasons.
People get caught up talking about the tv revenue. But ticket sales for home games plus annual contributions often required to buy season (or lottery) tickets often far exceed conference distributions. When home attendance falls, it really hits the wallet.
Purdue's stinking things up pretty good, but their home game conference slate hasn't done them any favors when it comes to attendance. Bringing more bottom feeders into the conference will just widen the problem. It a problem many teams in ever growing conferences will face.
Interesting figures in your link about annual revenues, and additional support for my claim that Texas and Oklahoma are head and shoulders above every school in the ACC in terms of national interest. (And yes, I know revenue doesn't equate to national interest, but it is a pretty good barometer). Texas and Oklahoma were in the top 8. Not a single ACC school in the top 10.
That's apples and oranges. We're talking football viewership which means tv money not how many donors a school has...that donates only to the athletic department not school.
Last year FSU was in 4 of the top ten most watched games. Texas and Oklahoma were in zero.
http://www.foxsports.com/college-fo...watched-college-football-games-of-2014-121114
A more detailed and comprehensive look at the power of the conferences and teams when it comes to televised can be found in this review of the 2013 season. This clearly shows that the ACC was the 3rd highest rated tv conference and the Big 12 was 5th. The team rankings on this list are skewed somewhat by how they chose to use the statistics and are not as useful as the conference rankings. For example while FSU is 12th on the Team list that is because the list was compiled using ONLY the average number of viewers per nationally televised game and the glaring flaw is that #14 FSU had all but 2 of its 14 games nationally televised while #13 Nebraska had only 6 of its BEST games nationally televised. So yeah...showing FSU versus the scrubs pulls down the total viewership number. Oklahoma had the same number of games nationally televised as FSU and had substantially less viewers. Texas was even worse, far less viewers per game and only 9 games on national television. Miami meanwhile had only 300,000 less viewers than Texas in total and yet had three more games on national tv as only two of its games were not shown. Clemson meanwhile was only slightly behind Oklahoma in average viewership yet was well ahead of Texas and all of the other Big 12 schools. What this does show is that Texas and Oklahoma are not on par with the Alabamas, Ohio States, Georgias and FSUs of the world and there is a clear separation in conferences with the Big 12 being the least.
http://www.goodbullhunting.com/2013...ball-tv-ratings-2013-regular-season-final-sec
The "holes" are simply that the author showed only the average number of viewers and not the total number of views. Neither the average or the total tells the entire story, but you can use them together and show that if you mixed the ACC and Big Ten together, FSU had the most viewers AND the most average views per game even with all but two nationally televised. Oklahoma would be #2, but Clemson was #3 and only then Texas.
I like the two team pod system I designed better than a four team system. It creates mini leagues that play each other enough that you can keep real rivalries. I set it up so that most of the teams are regional (excluding Miami which has more northern alumni than local Floridians) and they'll play 5 regional games but have one traditional (or great for tv if not traditional) non-region rival. Then the other 2 or 3 games will be rotated through the other pods.
My two team pod system works like this. Each team is placed in a small two team pod system. Each team plays the pod above and below it plus their pod mate and one designated "rival". In my hypothetical 20 team, 2 pod Super ACC it would look like this. The non regional rival is across with an arrow from the team.
Pod 1 (plays Pod 2 and Pod 10)
FSU ----plays rival----> Louisville
Virginia --------->UNC
Pod 2 (plays Pod 1 and 3)
Georgia Tech --------->Texas Tech
Clemson--------->Oklahoma State
Pod 3 (plays Pod 2 and 4)
North Carolina--------->Virginia
Duke--------->Syracuse
Pod 4
Wake Forest---------> ND buddy
NC State--------->Virginia Tech
Pod 5
Oklahoma State--------->Clemson
Texas Tech---------> Georgia Tech
Pod 6
Texas--------->Notre Dame
Oklahoma--------->Miami
Pod 7
Louisville---------> FSU
Pittsburgh---------> Boston College
Pod 8
Syracuse--------->Duke
UConn/Navy/Cincy/West Virginia --------->Wake Forest
Pod 9
Notre Dame--------->Texas
Boston College---------> Pitt
Pod 10 (Plays Pod 9 and 1)
Miami --------->Oklahoma
Virginia Tech--------->NC State
So that would mean under my setup that every year Notre Dame would play Texas, Boston College, Syracuse, Miami, Virginia Tech and Uconn/Navy plus two or three random. Frankly I really like the idea of playing three random for a 9 game conference schedule. ND could still schedule USC and Navy (if that's not your buddy) and yet have a fully national schedule with just the new ACC.
I've been careful to keep all of the rivalries. For example UNC still plays its preferred Tobacco Road schedule (UVA, NC State, Wake, Duke, Clemson and GT) while FSU actually plays its preferred southern football school schedule (Miami, Clemson, GT, Virginia Tech, Louisville and Virginia (which used to be good and could be again but really just because it works opposite its current rivals Miami and VT). Texas keeps a mainly SWC schedule with one big marquee game outside as it would play Oklahoma, OSU, TT, Notre Dame, Louisville and Pitt). Oklahoma similarly plays SWC plus one big TV game in Texas, OSU, TT, Miami, Louisville and Pitt. Miami gets to play four marquee games in FSU, Oklahoma, Notre Dame and Virginia Tech plus schools which should give them a margin of error and still have a good record and fits their northern alumni demo in Boston College and UVA.
Hope you have an exit clause in all your contracts.
The way the play off is going, not conned, not going.
N i t t a n y A m e r i c a
The way the play off is going, not conned, not going.
N i t t a n y A m e r i c a
You are using ONE year when FSU was the defending NC and shoe in for a playoff spot as long as they remained undefeated. Of course the Noles had good ratings in 2014. That is hardly fair to use as a representative year.
First of all that's when the study was I cant help it. Second of all we were not expected to do well with a freshman QB so we wouldn't have had a lot of extra eyeballs until the end.
That's because mega-conferences would be good for ESPN only.
FSU was ranked 11th in the 2013 preseason poll. People expected FSU to do well.
I was at FSU in the middle of our 14 year run finishing no lower than 4th. So 11th is not that big of a deal to our fans and we would not consider that expecting to do well. Even in our so-called Lost Decade where we slipped from our pedestal for too long of loyalty to a great but aged coach we had only three seasons where we finished unranked and we never had a losing season in those three unranked seasons. So 11th is pretty low expectations for FSU.
And yes some schools would be happy with 11th, expectations at FSU are just higher. Any year we are not at the front of the national championship race is a failed year. I pulled up our two yearly finishes for comparison purposes. Since 1995, even with our "Lost Decade", FSU finished higher than 11th, 11 of those years. Meanwhile Notre Dame finished higher than eleventh only twice. I'm not pointing that out to be a %*% or start a fight, I'm just using it to demonstrate that our expectations are different than yours and are the same as Alabama and Ohio States. We expect national titles or at least being in the mix every year.
Our expectations were NOT high in 2013. Most fans including myself expected a mediocre 20-maybe high single digits type of season setting us up for an amazing 2014. But Jameis was further along than even his fans would have dreamed and we coasted to an easy title even with Auburn admittedly cheating like mad in the first half of the title game our only real challenge of the year. And then unfortunately our 2014 team never jelled despite great talent partially because of the nonstop press and more due to just teammates coasting to an NFL payday and not looking to get injured and coaches in flux/turmoil (Jimbo was dealing with marriage infidelity and his son's condition while having to replace his D coordinator for HIS infidelity (he ran off to Georgia as his wife threatened to take half his stuff if he didn't move away from the pretty front office staff at FSU).
This year I'm expecting a top ten finish, but we won't likely be in the title hunt as we've got too young of an O line and defense. So I'm thinking 20-high single digit finish again. Next year if Jimbo can work his QB Magic again will be our year.
[QUOTE="FSUTribe76, post: 269487, member: 15039"
Our expectations were NOT high in 2013. Most fans including myself expected a mediocre 20-maybe high single digits type of season setting us up for an amazing 2014.[/QUOTE]
With all due respect, the expectations that drive ratings aren't limited solely to the perceptions of a handful of FSU fans. Winston and FSU had plenty of hype going into the 2013 season, which was largely perceived as being warranted after a stellar opening performance against Pitt - the only televised CFB game on Labor Day. The hype skyrocketed from that point on, which undoubtedly got non-FSU fans tuning in and enhanced tv ratings.
Our expectations were NOT high in 2013. Most fans including myself expected a mediocre 20-maybe high single digits type of season setting us up for an amazing 2014.[/QUOTE]
With all due respect, the expectations that drive ratings aren't limited solely to the perceptions of a handful of FSU fans. Winston and FSU had plenty of hype going into the 2013 season, which was largely perceived as being warranted after a stellar opening performance against Pitt - the only televised CFB game on Labor Day. The hype skyrocketed from that point on, which undoubtedly got non-FSU fans tuning in and enhanced tv ratings.
At some point we are going to have conference only play off spots awarded. This keeps all the money in the hands of those who control all the money.
You have to play in to play off.
Hope the contracts are breakable when they keep you outside the inside.
When thinking full time all the time Super Con, The B!G is the best and the richest. You can have the West Division all to yourselves and be in the title game 9 out of 10 years, easy.
N i t t a n y A m e r i c a
You have to play in to play off.
Hope the contracts are breakable when they keep you outside the inside.
When thinking full time all the time Super Con, The B!G is the best and the richest. You can have the West Division all to yourselves and be in the title game 9 out of 10 years, easy.
N i t t a n y A m e r i c a
I think we need to join a conference but I would not want us to join the ACC unless they got rid of Swiffer. I'm amazed that the current schools in the ACC outside of Tobacco Road have tolerated this BS this long.
Complete and utter garbage opinion on your behalf. Universities, especially national caliber ones, are measured in terms of research and actual, real-world application - thus graduate schools come into the equation. The BIG, though these schools hardly care about conference affiliation when it comes to academics, is significantly ahead of the ACC once graduate school rankings are compiled - pick any publication, please, do an objective comparison & eat humble pie. I'll help you, compare Virginia to Minnesota in terms of graduate programs ranked in the top 25 of US News (<-- though this is an average, yet popular source). 4-year degrees are becoming less potent, thus a school's undergraduate rankings better keep pace in terms of graduate education as well.
I do think the ACC has some great Olympic sports, but you're oblivious to actual, annually measured publications and NCAA history if you don't think the BIG at least keeps pace and often outperforms the ACC in overall sports in a given year. The BIG consistently has the most schools in the top 25 of the Director's Cup, and usually racks up at least 4 NCAA titles a year. I'm also quite certain the BIG had more NCAA titles than the ACC this year: 7 to 5. Throw in non-NCAA titles, the BIG's lead grows.
Btw, Maryland left the ACC as second, all-time, to UNC in NCAA titles. They'll be fine & unlike Lville, they have much better in-state football talent, basketball as well. Stop living in a 2 year window & don't forget ND has been nowhere near a NC football program since Holtz left. Reputation & wealthy, yet delusional fans continue to overhype ND's football value. The program would be in better shape if it was in a conference. It's hardly the 4th best program based in the Midwest since 1991. OSU, Michigan, Neb, and soon MSU have been better.
The Big 10 is destined to become increasingly more irrelevant as the US population continues to move. You're a Big 10 fan. Great, go have fun with that. I would rather see ND drop football than join the Big 10. Keep on thinking that ND would be the fourth or fifth best school in the midwest. Michigan? Nebraska? Michigan St.? Yeah, OK.
BTW, ND played in the BCSCG game after the 2012 season.
NOT in the context of college athletics, because college athletics is played by undergraduates. In the undergraduate world college is about educating students and preparing them for their next step in life, be that moving into a job or vocation or continuing their education at a higher level. It's not about the next great discovery by a "research professor" that never sees the inside of a classroom. There's nothing at all wrong with the research side of universities and the important role it plays, but that is really irrelevant in the context of athletics, or comparisons between school within the context of athletics.
Move ? Move where ?
Didn't you get the memo, the south west and California has no water.
N i t t a n y A m e r i c a
You can't compare a preseason ranking of 11th to your glory days from a decade prior. You have to compare it to where you were in the previous couple of seasons.
Nole ratings are great when you are in contention for a title. When you aren't, you fall way behind other national programs (Texas, Penn State, Ohio St, etc) who are also out of the running.
After reading the thread, my conclusion is not many ND fans without a connection to another ACC team feel they would join an ACC conference. Some of the other ACC schools want to feel they would join the ACC but I don't see the evidence for it.
Assuming ND decides they need to join a conference, which I think will happen at some point.
I can't see the PAC 12 makes sense logistically even if they bring 3 eastern teams.
The SEC doesn't seem a good bet due to culture and academics.
The B1G seems to make the most sense geographically and I think the academic side of the schools would like it but their is bad blood from the old school ND fans and the B1G. Although assuming the final massive conference realignment is at the end of the current GOR's those people will have less influence due to aging and being less of them. The B1G does not have the southern exposure for recruiting for ND and while it will probably pick up a mid-Atlantic state of Virginia and maybe NC(although if NC goes to the SEC it would seem Ga. Tech is a good chance to go to the B1G giving an even better recruiting state).
An expanded Big 12 gets a little interesting. Assuming the B1G & SEC pry some schools out off the ACC out of the usual suspects of Va., NC, Va. Tech & Ga. Tech. I wonder how much ND considers a Big 12 with some ACC schools anchored by FSU & Clemson. It would probably also have a Miami, Va. Tech or Ga. Tech if they were left out above due to Duke being selected above by the B1G/SEC. It would be a pretty decent footprint for recruiting for ND.
I wonder if the Big 12 might be the choice. It would seem to be the B1G or the Big 12 and the B1G would probably already have 16 teams at this point and would have to go to 18.
Assuming ND decides they need to join a conference, which I think will happen at some point.
I can't see the PAC 12 makes sense logistically even if they bring 3 eastern teams.
The SEC doesn't seem a good bet due to culture and academics.
The B1G seems to make the most sense geographically and I think the academic side of the schools would like it but their is bad blood from the old school ND fans and the B1G. Although assuming the final massive conference realignment is at the end of the current GOR's those people will have less influence due to aging and being less of them. The B1G does not have the southern exposure for recruiting for ND and while it will probably pick up a mid-Atlantic state of Virginia and maybe NC(although if NC goes to the SEC it would seem Ga. Tech is a good chance to go to the B1G giving an even better recruiting state).
An expanded Big 12 gets a little interesting. Assuming the B1G & SEC pry some schools out off the ACC out of the usual suspects of Va., NC, Va. Tech & Ga. Tech. I wonder how much ND considers a Big 12 with some ACC schools anchored by FSU & Clemson. It would probably also have a Miami, Va. Tech or Ga. Tech if they were left out above due to Duke being selected above by the B1G/SEC. It would be a pretty decent footprint for recruiting for ND.
I wonder if the Big 12 might be the choice. It would seem to be the B1G or the Big 12 and the B1G would probably already have 16 teams at this point and would have to go to 18.
You do realize that the fans on this board will have absolutely nothing to do with the "which conference" decision when and if the time comes, right? We are not necessarily indicative of anything that ND will eventually choose to do. Me personally, I am bored to tears with all these theoretical conference realignment discussions. You seem to love it.
yes, in my original post I put ND fans since I was posting on a message board I was seeking ND message board poster fan's opinion. It would be silly to think the overall message board fan's opinion would determine it but probably no more silly than other polls or opinions people ask on message boards.
