Just my opinion, but I don't think ND is that concerned with conference champions with the same record, they are concerned with non-conference champions with the same record.How many times would it take for a 11-1 or 10-2 ND being left out of the playoffs as opposed to a team from a conference with the same number of losses but one more win from a conference championship game to consider changing their independent status? would it take a couple of times? Or would it not matter?
It will be interesting to see if the Big 12 rethinks their number if they are left out again.
How many times would it take for a 11-1 or 10-2 ND being left out of the playoffs as opposed to a team from a conference with the same number of losses but one more win from a conference championship game to consider changing their independent status?
Just my opinion, but I don't think ND is that concerned with conference champions with the same record, they are concerned with non-conference champions with the same record.
I'm curious if ND fans think ND would join the ACC for football if the ACC was in trouble due to schools such as Virginia and Ga. Tech joining the B1G and/or NC & Va. Tech joining the SEC?(This is of course assuming the ACC would agree to stay together if ND joined for football). Because if that happened I don't think it is long before 4-6 teams left for the Big 12, or the B1G could look at another school or two such as a FSU.
Would ND still be committed to independence if this was the scenario or would they feel joining a conference is inevitable?
I'm curious if Texas says they would join the ACC with 3 other regional partners, is ND still opposed to the ACC? Basically establishing the ACC as a Power league indefinitely going forward, and probably making it 4 power leagues instead of 5.
I would say that ND's response to Texas would be that it should get an ND deal with the ACC - 5/8ths football member - and see if the ACC would also add a couple of Texhoma schools as full members.
1 more - Texas
I want Texas. To get Texas, the ACC will need to play to get OU and maybe Baylor. So I would push for Swofford to keep in close otuch with Texas with the door open to Texas bringing a friend or 2. But if possible, land Texas alone.Uh, in your last post, didn't you suggest that Texas try to persuade the ACC to add a couple of the Texas and Oklahoma schools as full members?
I want Texas. To get Texas, the ACC will need to play to get OU and maybe Baylor. So I would push for Swofford to keep in close otuch with Texas with the door open to Texas bringing a friend or 2. But if possible, land Texas alone.
Nobody ever answers that question. I don't know why anyone thinks mega-conferences are good for college football.Conferences are already too big. What's the advantage of being in a conference if you only rarely play other member schools?
Conferences are already too big. What's the advantage of being in a conference if you only rarely play other member schools?
A little bit over the top, don't you think? The landscape is not declaring anything. You are making a lot of assumptions which, IMO, are just your vivid imagination.
ND has been dealing with the Big 10 for a long, long time. We are fully aware of how Delany and Company operate. Just as Delany was not able to railroad ND into joining the Big 10, the ACC won't be able to do so. There is no either/or decision for ND to make. ND is not in the position where it needs to either: (1) join the ACC; or (2) perish. ND will be just fine, but thank you for your concern.
It certainly sounds over the top, but I've been around and gone through thinsg that for their time were as over the top as what I say above can happen if just one of the dominoes agrees to fall - say, OU.
When I first learned of the SEC plan to go back to 12 (GT and Tulane had been members and left in the 1969s), it wsa 1 AM. A friend from high school whose father and granfather were UT Vols boosters and who had gotten a 4 year schaolrship to be a Vols football manager, called and told me. He said he was half drunk after anight with several major SEC wheels, who told him that the SEC was going to 12 and it wanted Texas and A&M. He said that if either or both refused, the SEC would take Arkansas. He said the SEC knew taking even 1 of the 3 would kill the SWC before to long.
I thought that was way over the top.
When in 2003 I began saying that ND either would be in the ACC or in the BT or part of a minor conference and indy in football, with its football falling in stature, 100% of ND fans said I was crazier than crazy because none of it could ever happen.
When I began telling ACC fans that not only would the ACC go to 14 but that we probably would have 14 before any other conference, the vast majority of other ACC fans said I was crazy - never going to happen.
ND already is in the ACC. The catch is that you are only 5/8ths members in football. The ACC is not trying to railroad ND into anything. The ACXC is ND's opnly chance opf not being railroaded by the BT, which will keep acting to dislodge ND. And the odds are good that the BT will be moving to at least 16 long long before the ACC GOR expires. It is a certainty that the BT would love to screw both ND and the SEC by taking UNC and UVA.
So you had best prepare yourself for another change. There may be no movement until 2020, but movement is coming.
There were discussions when the Big 12 looked doomed to implode last time that the ACC would go to 20 teams with 4 pods of 5 teams and that those pods would rotate who they played each year. Rumors where also that the ACC would be open to taking on Navy to help Notre Dame with their scheduling. Lots of talk back then but I wouldnt be surprised to see it start again. The pac 10 wants OK and OKst and has the money to pull them and Texas would probably not view the SEC as a viable landing spot.
Oklahoma regents won't allow the two to split up.I don't think the PAC 12 wants Oklahoma and Oklahoma St. The PAC 12 wants Oklahoma and Texas. I do know some OU alums, however. They tell me that OU and OSU would have to be a package deal. That pretty much put a kibosh on the PAC 12's overture.
That may well be true. if so, it means the SEC would not fear the BT coming down its west side. And that means the BT wil focus all its enOklahoma regents won't allow the two to split up.
You are still missing the point of what the BT is and does. Yes, Maryland was scraping the bottom of the barrel with Maryland and Rutgers in every way but 1: coming to control media markets with a bigger long term plan to stifle compettion.Your entire argument is based upon a faulty premise. The ACC is NOT ND's only chance of not being railroaded by the Big 10. ND has other options, one of which is the status quo. The Big 10 is going to expand to 16?? Really? What schools is the Big 10 going to add? Seems to me that the Big 10 already scraped the bottom of the barrel with Maryland and Rutgers. If UVA and UNC were interested in the Big 10, would have already happened.
You need to calm down. Although you seem inclined to panic, ND does not need to panic. ND will be just fine.
Also, not sure what the SEC addition of South Carolina and Arkansas two decades ago has to do with ND. Perhaps you can enlighten me.
There were discussions when the Big 12 looked doomed to implode last time that the ACC would go to 20 teams with 4 pods of 5 teams and that those pods would rotate who they played each year. Rumors where also that the ACC would be open to taking on Navy to help Notre Dame with their scheduling. Lots of talk back then but I wouldnt be surprised to see it start again. The pac 10 wants OK and OKst and has the money to pull them and Texas would probably not view the SEC as a viable landing spot.
Even Jim Delaney once let loose that the BT would look at expanding beyond 16. Various BT fan boards have brought that back up numerous times.
The Pac wants OU and agreed once to take Ok St, but that was a deal with Texas. The Pac may never want Ok St even with OU unless Texas comes along.
But the Pac needs OU football. It is #5 nationally in total # of TV viewers for football and basketball, making it easily the most overpaid conference. So would the Pac now take Ok St and K St to get OU and KU? If so, the SEC might then be willing to take Ok St to get OU.
I'm an ND alum and I'm not worried about any of this stuff. You see danger lurking in every corner. I will let you worry for the both of us.
Expand beyond 16? As I said before, what's the value of being in a conference if you only rarely play other members of the conference?
The acc has been great for ND athletics. I don't see us going anywhere. I also don't see the acc falling apart. But you never know about the teams that are definitely second banana in their state, like GA Tech, NC State, VA Tech. It seems like those are the teams that are never totally happy.
I'm an ND alum and I'm not worried about any of this stuff. You see danger lurking in every corner. I will let you worry for the both of us.
Expand beyond 16? As I said before, what's the value of being in a conference if you only rarely play other members of the conference?
It's a very simple answer. Bargaining power. 16 or 20 schools have more power to up their contract value than 10. The more big television fish (schools like Texas, Connecticut (for ball), FSU, Miami etc) you have the higher you can drive the price up.
That's why I assume that at some point the Big Twelve is done. It's only got two really hugely marketable schools left (Texas and Oklahoma) while the others are only worthwhile when they are fielding great teams (Baylor, OSU, Texas Tech). The ACC has more big big fish (FSU, Miami, UNC, Duke (for bball), and half of Notre Dame. So at some point the Big 12 is imploding again as they've got too few chits for their next tv contract. Hopefully they end up in the ACC and not the PAC-12.
I have to disagree with your premise. It's not the quantity of schools. Rather, it's the quality of schools which is important. No one is scrambling to add MAC schools, American Conference schools, etc. If only numbers counted, those schools would be in demand. The fact that UConn remains in the American conference also shoots a hole in your claim that UConn is a "big television fish."
Disagree with me if you like. I personally think that Texas and Oklahoma are head and shoulders above any school in the ACC, except perhaps FSU, when it comes to drawing national attention.
As much as Miami is an FSU rival and I would not like it to be so, despite a decade of sucking Miami still has some of the highest draws in the country. The last time I saw the highest rated cable games from the past ten years or so, FSU and Miami games were at the top of the list.
Miami doesn't even sell out its games in its own stadium.
Very true because it's about an hour from campus and the locals are lazy. But that doesn't stop the eyeballs on tv. You shouldn't mistake the two. Miami is consistently among the most watched college football programs. They may be watching it to see them lose, but they're watching it. That's not true of Kansas State for example. Even when they have a one or two loss season....no one cares outside of Kansas.
I doubt he thinks it is a matter of quanity only, or even quanitity in new states. Anyone who is that simple would argue the ACC should add South Alabama.I have to disagree with your premise. It's not the quantity of schools. Rather, it's the quality of schools which is important. No one is scrambling to add MAC schools, American Conference schools, etc. If only numbers counted, those schools would be in demand. The fact that UConn remains in the American conference also shoots a hole in your claim that UConn is a "big television fish."
Little ten sports are like minor league baseball. If you dont live in the town where the game is played no one cares. ND is a major league team. ND will never join a conference in football because they dont have to.
Very true because it's about an hour from campus and the locals are lazy. But that doesn't stop the eyeballs on tv. You shouldn't mistake the two. Miami is consistently among the most watched college football programs. They may be watching it to see them lose, but they're watching it. That's not true of Kansas State for example. Even when they have a one or two loss season....no one cares outside of Kansas.