The problem is, MF was supposed to bring in amazing talent. Our 25 class is looking like it's going to be a bad Kelly class at best after Deuce decommits. Our roster next year is NOT great. If the team continues to struggle this year, next year probably will be worse. This was the year the stars aligned, we have players and depth everywhere, but it hasn't been developed at a few key positions.
Where's Golson5?
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With the schedule ND has this year, Angeli and Minchey could win 10-11 games. Carr is the future, but realistically he's not ready this year.
I remember in 2007 when Weis was forced to throw Clausen in as a true freshman after Demetrius Jones sh1t the bed in the season opener. They were breaking in a new line, and Clausen was getting destroyed. It's not worth ruining your future QB with an already lost season.
Maybe. This will be borne out over a season.
Aside from Leonard apparently busting, as well as poor OC play calling, I think overall the talent looks ok.
QB is a MASSIVE position, where a bad one can make things bad overall.
Yes, this is on Freeman and Denbrock.
In defense of Freeman. Kelly did go 4-8 in year 7 of his tenure, losing to Stanford, Navy and Duke.
Dabo went 6-7 in year 3, and didn't win a NC until year 8
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Right. I respect the questioning of Freeman, but people forget that teams occasionally have a clunker of a loss. Unfortunately for Freeman, he used up pretty much all of his goodwill by losing to Marshall and Stanford.
Neither inherited a program that just went 11-1 and had strung 5 really good seasons in a row together leading into their hire.
Kelly's debacle was in year 7, 4 years removed from 12-0.
Dabo inherited a 9 win team.
Both coaches regressed before they improved.
Kelly regressed after his 12-0 season
Dabo regressed from the 9 win team he inherited.
Both regressed before they really got it going.
Kelly never fixed the culture of the program until 2016 debacle. He just got a lot of really good players and developed them. He also hired his friends up until then. He needed someone to compliment himself on the D side, since he focused so much on offense.
My problem that has me so worked up, IMO this team on paper with players coaches is the best in 30 years. They just have done a terrible job preparing this team for the season. I repeat for the season. It appears they spent 8 months creating and developing a plan to beat A&M, not develop a really good team.
Leonard is a dud. He's worse than Hartman. QB play has been atrocious. Some of the responsibility goes to the OL as well, but leonard has shown to be very inaccurate with a weak arm. still Freeman's fault for targeting him, and sticking with him.
Fair. My nit here is BK inherited a bad ship. He righted it and bequeathed it to MF.
MF is making it worse. Most damning in QB. Hartman, who was ok, and Leonard, who is apparently a bust. I had faith and hopes in this NIL move, but it has backfired big time...and Freeman is accountable, particularly since he and the OCs cannot make appropriate adjustments.
The only adjustment is to bench Leonard for Angeli or Minchey.
@Golson5 where you at? We all know you're reading the forum posts. Come eat your big serving of crow we have waiting for you. 😂
This is beyond my pay grade...and knowledge base.
As a fan I can only comment on after the fact. I've no idea the quality of the ND QBs expect Leonard and Buchner, having watched them.
Marcus Freeman announced Riley Leonard will start on Saturday. Get used to it.
Guys, let's be fair. MF, Denbrock, and Leonard did manage to beat TAMU, with the correct game plan.
Yes, lost to NI, but you see 2 extremes. Not a good thing, for all the reasons we're discussing...but it doesn't mean Leonard absolutely must be benched.
This to me really is more indicting of MF and Dembrock...who should know thoroughly what Leonard can do and how to optimize the game plan. Maybe they can get it right the with Leonard the rest of the way?
Yes, lost to NI, but you see 2 extremes. Not a good thing, for all the reasons we're discussing...but it doesn't mean Leonard absolutely must be benched.
This to me really is more indicting of MF and Dembrock...who should know thoroughly what Leonard can do and how to optimize the game plan. Maybe they can get it right the with Leonard the rest of the way?
It's a vocal minority that want Riley Leonard benched.
Leonard had VERY little to do with our win vs A&M. It was like 2012 early games with frosh Golson where you called some runs, a few easy read passes, a shot here or there when set up, and relied on run game, and defense.
Except Riley is in his 3rd year starting. The fact he didn't have the mental or physical or whatever ability to throw some sort of real pass on the 2nd and 1 play is beyond me. BENCH HIM
You’re making excuses, selective, cherry picking excuses.
In year 3 Kelly played for the National Championship after having an undefeated regular season
Kelly left us in the lurch, hence ND should have named an interim coach and gone on a National search for a Head coach with prior, proven Head Coaching experience
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Pat, I wasn't a fan of the hire either. I would have preferred they selected an experienced successful coach. Unfortunately nothing we can do now, except let it play out, support the program and hope for the best.
Are you a total moron? ?
That’s an undeniable fact.
He’s also had more Top 5 wins than Kelly did in 12 years. To be expected from a first time ever head coach. He should have beaten Oh St to boot but those green coaching chops showed. I for one am supporting MF but didn’t support the initial hire as these truths were bound to happen. Reality: he’s going to get at least 4 years so the talk about canning him is just stupid.
My fear is, Marcus/ND move on and he becomes great. I think he’s destined to be a great coach we’re just victim of the experiment/learning years. ND gave BK an exceptional long leash, long list of players poor behavior, 4-8 losing season, losses to Navy, Tulsa, USF - making the post season 3/12 years just to be drubbed.
Have you every heard him actually speak intelligently about the actual game of football... Scheme, X's and O's, etc?
I sure haven't. Every good/great coach can walk you through what happened and why. They don't always need to do it, but they do. Freeman never does.
I now believe there's a reason for that. To not have a clue what happened after the NIU game. It wasn't a "coach speak" not having a clue, it's obviously he didn't have any idea of why ND played well and what adjustments they should have made.
I actually think we do defensively......... but offensively are insanely limited by a QB that can't read defenses or throw accurately.
I think ND defensively did not spend enough time, actually its obvious they didn't and freeman said so, they didn't enough time learning what NIU does and how to stop it. There were so many blown gaps in the run game and a few coverages
Given how bad NIU is in relation to ND from a pure 85 man roster standpoint (not even taking into consideration the MASSIVE advantage ND has from a raw production standpoint (F+)), ND should have been able to win by 20+ points simply for showing up to the game and lining up. The bottom half of NDs 85 man roster would probably beat NIUs 2-deep 99 times out of 100. That loss to NIU was just really bizarre and fluky and does dampen NDs 2024 outlook (but maybe not to the degree that people think that it does).
Also, I think Riley Leonard's biggest issue from what I've seen so far, is that he's still not comfortable in the offense, and he's having a really hard time reading/anticipating/going through his progressions. All stuff that will get better with more reps in the system. But I still think he's a pretty middling QB talent overall with limited upside.
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Haven't been absent. I just knew this board was going to be a shit show for a long time. And people were going to be going nuts and off the deep end.
It happens after we lose a commit and when we have a loss. And when we have a really embarrassing pathetic loss it's just unreadable and annoying so I usually stay away for days to a week til all the crazies stop posting and going whacko
What do you think of Riley Leonard? where's that strong arm you were raving about, and how dynamic he was going to make the offense. 😂
He played horribly. But he has a strong arm. He threw a ridiculously awful pass.
I also remember people killing Parker and saying how much better Denbrock was and how he was going to change the offense.
Where are those people? Were you one of them? 2nd and 1 at the 50 and he's throwing a double post when we haven't thrown one deep all year and our OL and WRs are playing below average
The head coach and OC are the first people that need to be blamed for that humiliation. Followed by our QB and DC
Top to bottom a complete failure
Bro you just lost how much money on last weeks game? And have been incorrect about a number of topics you had to eat crow on and walk back on all weekend. I'm not trying to defend Golson, but the irony/hypocrisy is overwhelming.
🥱...tell us some more about ND football and recruiting🥱...you couldn't spot talent if Ana de Armas fell in your lap! You haven't been right about a QB since you've been on this board. At least your not a sheep but, it ain't saying much considering you act like every word out of your mouth is factual...based on your assessments I don’t think you know shit!
I disagree. Golson5 just regurgitates whatever Bryan Driskell says.
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