What does Notre Dame mean by needing to "find the right guys that fit this place"?

[chaseball]

This phrase seems to wash away mediocre recruiting results every cycle and I think its the incorrect way of operating.

Winning organizations don't stubbornly build their own culture at the top and then demand that their talent fit it. They build a culture that resonate with the talent and build around it.

 

[NDSMC78]

This phrase seems to wash away mediocre recruiting results every cycle.

Isn't it the job of ND to build a culture that fits with the best talent in the country and not the other way around? Isn't that what great leadership is about?

No. You have it exactly wrong (as usual). Kids have to adapt to the culture at ND. ND will not adapt to the whims of various recruits.

 

[chaseball]

No. You have it exactly wrong (as usual). Kids have to adapt to the culture at ND. ND will not adapt to the whims of various recruits.

Look at the most talented teams in the country. They aren't stubbornly operating like they did 100 years ago and demanding that the talent fits their archaic culture. These successful recruiting organizations are building a place where 17 and 18 year olds want to be apart of.. They are building the culture around the talent. They are smart enough to realize that they have little to no leverage in the popularity contest that is modern day recruiting.

Which is why these places are loaded with endless perks and an organization that is humble enough to realize that the talent is the most valuable asset on their campus and not afraid to admit it/call it for what it is. While ND is still operating like a top down organization that thinks the players should just be grateful that ND is offering them a scholarship.

That ship has sailed though. It's a talent-first world in college football. When will ND flip the script and adapt?

 

[NDSMC78]

Look at the most talented teams in the country. They aren't stubbornly operating like they did 100 years ago and demanding that the talent fits their archaic culture. These successful recruiting organizations are building a place where 17 and 18 year olds want to be apart of. They are building the culture around the talent. They are smart enough to realize that they have little to no leverage in the popularity contest that is modern day recruiting.

Which is why these places are loaded with endless perks and an organization that is humble enough to realize that the talent is the most valuable asset on their campus and not affraid to admit it/call it for what it is. While ND is still operating like a top down organization that thinks the players should just be grateful that ND is offering them a scholarship. That ship has sailed though. When will ND adapt?

I don't care about what other schools do. I care about what ND does.

 

[chaseball]

I don't care about what other schools do. I care about what ND does.

So do I, and ND isn't doing things right which is why they haven't successfully signed a single national championship level prospect (not a single one) in the last 3 years.

 

[chaseball]

This topic is in response to this MF quote in his national signing day presser -- video is time stamped to the quote im referring to (btw, i dont blame MF, he's just towing the company line)

 

[Chitown11]

This phrase seems to wash away mediocre recruiting results every cycle and I think its the incorrect way of operating.

Winning organizations don't stubbornly build their own culture at the top and then demand that their talent fit it. They build a culture that resonate with the talent and build around it.

Just when I think some of your comments can't get anymore stupid, you post this.

 

[echowaker]

This phrase seems to wash away mediocre recruiting results every cycle and I think its the incorrect way of operating.

Winning organizations don't stubbornly build their own culture at the top and then demand that their talent fit it. They build a culture that resonate with the talent and build around it.

The foolishness continues. I've known Coach Saban since I was 16 years old. In all the years I've known him he has always spoken of "fit" when it comes to building a roster and a staff. You can't have success at the college level without it. If you can't comprehend the importance so be it.

 

[echowaker]

So do I, and ND isn't doing things right which is why they haven't successfully signed a single national championship level prospect (not a single one) in the last 3 years.

Utter nonsense. Even more than usual. Your " star" obsession is absurd and embarrassing .

 

[chaseball]

The foolishness continues. I've known Coach Saban since I was 16 years old. In all the years I've known him he has always spoken of "fit" when it comes to building a roster and a staff. You can't have success at the college level without it. If you can't comprehend the importance so be it.

Nick Saban dominated the talent rankings during his entire tenure at Alabama. Whatever his version of "fitting' was, consisted of having one of the most talent laden rosters in the country ever year and dominated the sport with those players.

ND isn't operating under that same luxury.

Point being: ND doesn't have the greatest coach in the history of the sport, ND needs to adapt.

 

[echowaker]

So do I, and ND isn't doing things right which is why they haven't successfully signed a single national championship level prospect (not a single one) in the last 3 years.

" isn't doing things right " is another in a remarkably long list of completely uninformed and frankly idiotic opinions. All the evidence indicates quite the contrary.

 

[echowaker]

Nick Saban dominated the talent rankings during his entire tenure at Alabama. Whatever his version of "fitting' was, consisted of having one of the most talent laden rosters in the country ever year and dominated the sport with those players.

ND isn't operating under that same luxury.

Point being: ND doesn't have the greatest coach in the history of the sport, ND needs to adapt.

You completely missed the point.....as usual.

 

[chaseball]

You completely missed the point.....as usual.

I think you are missing mine.

If Nick Saban operated under a "top down" approach (and hand selected players that fit his culture/program) and not vice versa, that is fine. Because the players that fit his culture were the best prospects out of HS and the best players in the sport every season (as per the same talent rankings im evaluating ND with)

NDs "fits" seem to be a collection of tier 2 and tier 3 talent (mostly 3 & 4 star players)

Nick Saban "fits" are 5+ five star prospects per class and half of the class being comprised of consensus top 100 talent.

 

[chaseball]

Look at Oregon (#1 class in the country approach) and compare and contrast to modern day ND:
OU

ND

 

[echowaker]

I think you are missing mine.

If Nick Saban operated under a "top down" approach (and hand selected players that fit his culture/program) and not vice versa, that is fine. Because the players that fit his culture were the best prospects out of HS and the best players in the sport every season (as per the same talent rankings im evaluating ND with)

NDs "fits" seem to be a collection of tier 2 and tier 3 talent (mostly 3 & 4 star players)

Nick Saban "fits" are 5 five star prospects per class and half of the class being comprised of consensus top 100 talent.

Again with the stars. You act like Bama has always had 85 5 "stars" on their roster. You obviously don't understand or are not willing to acknowledge the importance of " fit" as much as arguably one of the best coaches ever does. How you're not making a fortune parlaying all this vast knowledge and expertise of college football is beyond me. Some college is missing the boat.

 

[NDSMC78]

Nick Saban dominated the talent rankings during his entire tenure at Alabama. Whatever his version of "fitting' was, consisted of having one of the most talent laden rosters in the country ever year and dominated the sport with those players.

ND isn't operating under that same luxury.

Point being: ND doesn't have the greatest coach in the history of the sport, ND needs to adapt.

Go follow Saban's former team in Tuscaloosa. They might live up to your expectations.

 

[burmafrd1943]

This phrase seems to wash away mediocre recruiting results every cycle and I think its the incorrect way of operating.

Winning organizations don't stubbornly build their own culture at the top and then demand that their talent fit it. They build a culture that resonate with the talent and build around it.

for all the incredible stupidity of your posts, this is the epic of dumb

 

[NDinNJ]

This phrase seems to wash away mediocre recruiting results every cycle and I think its the incorrect way of operating.

Winning organizations don't stubbornly build their own culture at the top and then demand that their talent fit it. They build a culture that resonate with the talent and build around it.

"Bro", Kelly said the same sh1t at LSU. Saban would say it all the time. You're a douche.

 

[buckey]

Look at the most talented teams in the country. They aren't stubbornly operating like they did 100 years ago and demanding that the talent fits their archaic culture. These successful recruiting organizations are building a place where 17 and 18 year olds want to be apart of.. They are building the culture around the talent. They are smart enough to realize that they have little to no leverage in the popularity contest that is modern day recruiting.

Which is why these places are loaded with endless perks and an organization that is humble enough to realize that the talent is the most valuable asset on their campus and not afraid to admit it/call it for what it is. While ND is still operating like a top down organization that thinks the players should just be grateful that ND is offering them a scholarship.

That ship has sailed though. It's a talent-first world in college football. When will ND flip the script and adapt?

Never I hope

 

[graceh90]

There are simply things that Notre Dame cannot change. Location/geography and Catholicism obviously. Not everyone is going to be the right “fit” with those aspects alone.

There are simply things that Notre Dame is very unlikely to change. Commitment to academics and broader human development is unlikely to change. There is obviously wiggle room with admissions, but not so much with class attendance, making grades and the hope that student athletes will become a better person. You can’t minimize this aspect of Notre Dame. Real or not, there are athletes that perceive growth off of the playing field as being an unnecessary part of their potential progression to the NFL. They are not likely to stay at Notre Dame.

Whether you like it or not, Chase, Notre Dame is not simply a football factory. The expectation is greater. That doesn’t work for everybody and that isn’t gonna change.

 

[Patrish]

This phrase seems to wash away mediocre recruiting results every cycle and I think its the incorrect way of operating.

Winning organizations don't stubbornly build their own culture at the top and then demand that their talent fit it. They build a culture that resonate with the talent and build around it.

You don’t get it !

As Lou Holtz said, “ if you know Notre Dame, no explanation is necessary, and if you don’t know, no explanation will suffice.

You don’t know Notre Dame, so you wouldn’t understand what is meant by the fit

 

[BGI User 756]

Look at Oregon (#1 class in the country approach) and compare and contrast to modern day ND:
OU

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ND

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Lol

Zero football or basketball NCs. Zero

And ND still has 11 more active players in the NFL today. Hmmmm

 

[Pennick4]

Go follow Saban's former team in Tuscaloosa. They might live up to your expectations.

Doubt they want him.

 

[stu4don]

You mean like Oregon (the #1 team in the country?)

Oregon last four average recruiting (21-21) = 10.2
Irish last four average recruiting (21-24) = 8.9

Hmmm.... Shall we also do last year's national champion? 12.1

Chase -- I'm afraid you are working with a 10 year old model for success... Time to upgrade, fella...

 

[sjb75]

Former PAC 12 Oregon going 12-0 through the Big 10 surprised me.

 

[Golson5]

Former PAC 12 Oregon going 12-0 through the Big 10 surprised me.

Why? Big 10 only has 4 good teams including Oregon and they only had to beat 1 of them. The rest of the conference is average

 

[sjb75]

Why? Big 10 only has 4 good teams including Oregon and they only had to beat 1 of them. The rest of the conference is average

Why?

Because going 12-0 is difficult in that business.

 

[chaseball]

Why? Big 10 only has 4 good teams including Oregon and they only had to beat 1 of them. The rest of the conference is average

I agree with the idea that the BIG10 has disappointed this season based on their expectations coming into the year. They do have more than 4 good teams, but the bottom of that conference performed way below expectations.

The records in this table below are interconference records and interconference win percentage (only accounting for head to head matchups among the P4)

The F+ average is the average F+ of the teams in the conference. The BIG10 F+ average is being brought down by Purdue and Northwestern who were terrible this season.

Top 25 & Top 50 F+ represent how many teams finished inside the top 25 & Top 50 in those conferences

​	F+ Avg​	Record​	Win%​	Top 25 F+​	Top 50 F+​
BIG10​	0.173​	7-9​	43.8​	6​	11​
ACC​	0.313​	10-12​	45.5​	4​	8​
BIG12​	0.281​	5-9​	35.7​	4​	10​
SEC​	0.647​	13-6​	68.4​	9​	15​

Basically the SEC is way out ahead of everybody by a country mile while the other 3 conferences are way more closely aligned than they were expected to be coming into the year.

 

[SubwaydomerDFW]

Team first. Ready to do homework. Acclimate to cold weather. Be coached hard. Embrace their spirituality.

Gen Z values are much different than millennials and align well with what Notre dame is selling.

Sure a lot of guys don't wanna play school but more of them are seeing the value ; 4 for 40.

 

[ticat]

Team first. Ready to do homework. Acclimate to cold weather. Be coached hard. Embrace their spirituality.

Gen Z values are much different than millennials and align well with what Notre dame is selling.

Sure a lot of guys don't wanna play school but more of them are seeing the value ; 4 for 40.

And, with all due respect to South Benders, ready to live in South Bend...I did it for six years while in grad school, and it is not a selling point...

 

[SubwaydomerDFW]

And, with all due respect to South Benders, ready to live in South Bend...I did it for six years while in grad school, and it is not a selling point...

lol yeah I thought that as I was typing.

Not south beach or Palo Alto 😃

 

[Granite45]

Basically the SEC is way out ahead of everybody by a country mile while the other 3 conferences are way more closely aligned than they were expected to be coming into the year.

And yet, you seem to favor having the 12 team playoff be a tournament of the SEC and Big10. Makes the playoff system just a joke.

 

[chaseball]

And yet, you seem to favor having the 12 team playoff be a tournament of the SEC and Big10. Makes the playoff system just a joke.

I've personally been way overhyping the BIG10 all season. Coming into the year they were projected to be the 2nd best conference (well ahead of the ACC & BIG12) but have disappointed due to the performance of the bottom 3rd of the conference.

And after delving into the data posted above, the BIG10 is just a really top heavy conference this year. Ive been hyper focused on the playoff race/top 12/top 25 teams in the country (where the big10 is still doing strong). But after looking at the entire picture, the big10 doesn't have the separation holistically that i initially thought it did. Its really just the SEC and then everybody else *this season*

 

[Granite45]

I've personally been way overhyping the BIG10 all season. Coming into the year they were projected to be the 2nd best conference (well ahead of the ACC & BIG12) but have disappointed due to the performance of the bottom 3rd of the conference.

And after delving into the data posted above, the BIG10 is just a really top heavy conference this year. Ive been hyper focused on the playoff race/top 12/top 25 teams in the country (where the big10 is still doing strong). But after looking at the entire picture, the big10 doesn't have the separation holistically that i initially thought it did. Its really just the SEC and then everybody else *this season*

So, them, the SEC conference champion should awarded the National Championship. Or, at least, it seems so according to the analyses you defend adn favor.

 

[wi_hoosier]

Lol

Zero football or basketball NCs. Zero

And ND still has 11 more active players in the NFL today. Hmmmm

But what is their F+ ????

 

[NDblitz]

Look at Oregon (#1 class in the country approach) and compare and contrast to modern day ND:
OU

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ND

View embedded media

You should become a Duck fan. Nobody would miss you

 

[NDblitz]

F+ in a football discussion context seems to be the equivalent of writing test cheat notes on your arm.

 

[chaseball]

Gen Z values are much different than millennials and align well with what Notre dame is selling.

Sure a lot of guys don't wanna play school but more of them are seeing the value ; 4 for 40.

I agree with this. This latest generation of young adults know more than ever just how short-lived a football career can be especially when you consider the toll it takes on their health. This should definitely be in Notre Dame's favor.

I think a lot of Notre Dame fans have an antiquated view of the profile of the typical 17 and 18-year-old Blue Chip prospects these days

They are not kids from the ghetto who were merely born with athletic superiority and are looking for a school that will rescue them and their family from the ghetto

The typical elite recruit these days comes from an affluent family who has been investing in their childs athletic development with private tutors and such since they were 10 years old. They come from professional families and attend private schools in middle class (and above) neighborhoods

Notre Dame should be cleaning up with this crowd but the results just haven't been there yet

 

[chaseball]

So, them, the SEC conference champion should awarded the National Championship. Or, at least, it seems so according to the analyses you defend adn favor.

In a fair world of college football yes I would just hand the national championship trophy over to the SEC champion but I don't really think it matters

the top teams in the SEC will be competing down the stretch for the NT trophy anyway in the 12 team tournament and it's going to take a hell of a team to stop them

And just to be clear the big 10 has some really good teams this year that can certainly hold their own against the best of SEC has to offer. it's the bottom of the Big ten conference that is really dragging down their overall place in the hierarchy of conferences in college football this season. But none of that will matter once we get to the playoff.

 

[chaseball]

F+ in a football discussion context seems to be the equivalent of writing test cheat notes on your arm.

F+ in football discussion is exactly what it's indicating.

a lot of times during the kinds of conversations we are having on this forum its silly to use anything else. Don't you want to know how a team is performing relative to another with the quality of their opponent being taken into consideration?

Do you use the best information out there that tells a far more complete picture or do you continue to use antiquated stats that don't because a small vocal minority is too stubborn to move on?