What does Notre Dame mean by needing to "find the right guys that fit this place"?
- Thread starter chaseball
- Start date
Jeremiah Love isn’t a national championship prospect? Bryce Young, Leonard Moore, Traore, Shuler, Christian Gray, KVA? We haven’t even seen Carr, Lambert, Faraimo, Golden, Black, Burgess.
You probably didn’t think Watts, Alt, Kyren, Hamilton, Morrison, Estime were of this caliber either based on their rankings.
In the case of Ben Mo he is a clear mediocre prospect who was developed into a stud FBS player.
Even Jeremiah love ranked as a consensus top 100 prospect turned out to produce above what was expected. He was a good prospect but developed into a great FBS player.
Kyren Williams was a three-star prospect but developed into a great player.
Notre Dame as an organization has been really good since the Brian Kelly era at identifying these lesser rated prospects and coaching them up/squeezing as much juice out of their talent as they possibly can. Or even in some cases just doing a flat-out better job identifying guys who are totally overlooked by the rest of the industry (great scouting)
But here's the problem: Notre Dame is not the only program good at doing this. And their competition is not only good at identifying lesser rated prospects and developing them beyond their profile suggests but they are also good at getting the clear top dogs that walk onto campus as some of the best players in the country with major game breaking upside. Guys who would be drafted in the first round of the NFL if they weren't required to go to college first.
So these competing programs get the underrated gems, they get their three and four star prospects that they squeeze as much juice out of, and they also get the impact studs/phenoms that you can see their talent from a mile away. And this is where Notre Dame starts to fall off in comparison.
You cant build an entire program around underrated gems and guys that you develop into overachievers.
You need a healthy mix of those kinds of lesser rated prospects that you can coach up and also those types of prospects that flat out have game breaking skills the moment they step foot on campus (usually the 5 star and high 4 star prospects). Notre Dame has the former down as good as anybody in the country but are seriously lacking in the latter types
And when they finally run into the types of programs that have a healthier mix of great players on their roster it's very noticeable. Notre Dame hasn't been able to compete with them for the last 35 years. There is some optimism *this season* based on the production on the football team so far this season. But we're about to find out in the playoff just how good this team actually is
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Can you show me the statistical facts on this? So you are saying, of the 35 5-star recruits in the 2025 cycle, they are predominantly coming from affluent families? Please show me the statistics on that.
I don't have any data to prove it. I'm using conjecture, theory, and anecdotal evidence in the same way people have been doing to assume that elite talent is ghetto trash that isn't a fit at ND.
So, your opinion is that ND isn't doing things right. What qualifies you to suggest this? Also how do you know how the athletic department, football program, and administration operate? Do you have inside information?
Since you appear to know how a collegiate athletic department should be run, you should have sent in your resume when it was announced that Jack Swarbrick was stepping down as Athletic Director.
So basically, you're talking out of your a$$ and have no data to prove what you are saying.
Yes, i'm using the same evidence that people do when they falsely assume elite talent are lazy thugs from the ghetto that have the intellectual capacity of an orangutang and are not compatible with ND
Yes, that is my opinion based on the vey predictable lack of results the football program has been yielding over the last 20+ years.
Here's AIs take on achieving a high star ranking btw (which kind of gives some context to why highly rated prospects come from middle class and up families):
The star ranking system is primarily based on a player's on-field performance, potential, and exposure to recruiting services
The process of obtaining a high star ranking often involves:
The pursuit of a high star ranking can be financially demanding:
The star ranking system is primarily based on a player's on-field performance, potential, and exposure to recruiting services
The process of obtaining a high star ranking often involves:
- Attending camps and competitions
- Traveling to various locations for exposure
- Participating in specialized training
The pursuit of a high star ranking can be financially demanding:
- Travel Costs: Attending camps and competitions across the country requires significant financial resources.
- Training Expenses: Specialized coaching and training programs may be necessary to develop skills and gain exposure.
- Time Investment: The extensive time commitment may limit opportunities for multi income families working multiple jobs making it more challenging for lower-income families.
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Imbecilic. ND has played in one title game and been in the playoffs two other times in the past 20 years. ND has had ten 10 win seasons in the past 20 years. No one other than you would describe these achievements as "lack of results."
Yeah hand it over to Texas with their 0 top 25 wins lol
BenMo was never a mediocre prospect. The sites told you that and you believed them. The staff loved him and Saban came after him. You believe what you want
A lot of those post-season appearances and double-digit win seasons was based on poor schedule and Notre Dame's popularity (one or the other or some combination of both) which is why ND got predictably ran over when they eventually got to those postseason games and faced the best competition.
When you cut NDs performance down to its raw productivity over the last 15 years or so (their F+ ratings) NDs best seasons have been the last two under Marcus Freeman.
We won ten games in each of those seasons. Why do you ALWAYS feel it necessary to trash everything about ND?
I'm not trying to trash ND, im speaking to facts/reality.
Also, how is it trashing ND to point out that they are presently in the midst of their best season *right now* under this current head coach?
Lol…”speaking in reality” with no facts but using conjecture, theory and ‘anecdotal’ evidence (that you can’t produce)….
And these post season performances occurred under Kelly who you keep repping as bringing a NC to LSU…
LSU is all-hands-on-deck from top to bottom about winning national championships and investing the kinds of resources necessary to do it. BK isn't institutionally limited at LSU in the way that he was at ND.
Trying or not, you are trashing ND. Continually downplaying the accomplishments of the ND players is nothing but insulting them.
To help you answer your question, why don’t you look at the graduation rates at Alabama during Saban’s reign and compare them to Notre Dame’s graduation rates at the same time.
Do the same thing for the years that Saban was at LSU and compare those graduation rates to Notre Dame’s
Then let me know if you understand what the “FIT” is !
You could have said that about Georgia prior to 2021. It was 40 years between championships. What about Penn State, Texas, Oregon, Tennessee, USC, Miami. Notre Dame has outperformed each one of these programs in the last 15-20 years.
Going back to the heading of this post: the "right kind of guys' -- are guys who are at Notre Dame for the education as well as the football and the school (faith, tradition, campus, etc.) Right kind of guys are guys who stick even if they are not starting. Guys who may have bolted like Bethel, Colzie, or Rocco, guys like Kiser, Cross, Mills, and Watts who, at other school, would have jumped to the NFL last year.
Michigan (last year's winning = #13, average over 4 years) and Washington (last year's runner up, average recruiting rank 2020-24 = #42)
Of the current top five Oregon (over #13), Penn State (#16) and ND are ranked with Texas and Georgia (both top five in recruiting.)
The landscape is clearly changing and recruiting out of high school isn't what it used to be.
We saw what happened to Florida State this year when the coach got the transfer vs. recruit formula wrong. I believe Freeman and his team are figuring out the right mix of committed recruits and transfers.
Once again we got 1. One of the best linebackers in the country 2. Maybe the best Offensive lineman in the country 3. One of the best CBs and Safeties in the country. I know people are complaining at WR but I'll take Burress over Meadows any day. I like our QB and our RB. Both positions that are currently stocked with young talent but still attracted quality recruits.
Watch how many of you high 4 and 5* SEC recruits come flooding out of the portal in the coming month. ND is seeking stability and you start with "right kind of guys' -- guys who want to be at Notre Dame.
Michigan (last year's winning = #13, average over 4 years) and Washington (last year's runner up, average recruiting rank 2020-24 = #42)
Of the current top five Oregon (over #13), Penn State (#16) and ND are ranked with Texas and Georgia (both top five in recruiting.)
The landscape is clearly changing and recruiting out of high school isn't what it used to be.
We saw what happened to Florida State this year when the coach got the transfer vs. recruit formula wrong. I believe Freeman and his team are figuring out the right mix of committed recruits and transfers.
Once again we got 1. One of the best linebackers in the country 2. Maybe the best Offensive lineman in the country 3. One of the best CBs and Safeties in the country. I know people are complaining at WR but I'll take Burress over Meadows any day. I like our QB and our RB. Both positions that are currently stocked with young talent but still attracted quality recruits.
Watch how many of you high 4 and 5* SEC recruits come flooding out of the portal in the coming month. ND is seeking stability and you start with "right kind of guys' -- guys who want to be at Notre Dame.
To me it implies recruiting people of character and people who value education. I didn't go there, but my college does not have a football team. ND wants to win without becoming a football factory.
So you don’t have any facts to support your position !
Identify the people who stated that “elite talent is ghetto trash”
You’re intellectually dishonest and a moron !
"One thing to keep in mind with recruiting and rankings, etc. ND isn't just looking for the guys who have the most stars. Retention now matters more than ever. The portal matters. So all those things need to be taken together when registering disappointment or elation." From Eric's chat today. He says it more succinctly than me! Retention is key.
My understanding of it is this : Other than some prospects just don’t want to go to ND.
The staff is able to identify which kids won’t make it in the classroom at ND.
They see no point in jumping through hoops with the admin to get a kid admitted just watch them flunk out. Now we have another hole on the roster to fill.
They are getting the best athlete they can get that will be eligible to play every Saturday and go from there.
Goes with the territory as a ND fan. Jmo.
We need to recruit better, plain and simple. If we want to be there every year competing with others that are getting the better recruits. As a side note though, all these great alabama classes since 2020-2021 have not lead to them winning championships. Also a another tidbit, pete carroll at usc averaged top 10 classes by the collective of years coached there. And almost won more than what they did. So it is a very grey area between top 5 vs top 10. Several articles on the subject. Development is the most crucial element to recruiting. Plain and simple.
Also chase ball isn't completely wrong, but it is mostly based off what alabama and georgia did to get those natty's. Let's mix in lsu. They were top 10 average that lead to the natty, via transfer help. Last but not least, clemson. Top 10 average to get those natty's. Never once with a top 5 class, barely top 10.
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I did find it interesting that 7 of the top 10 recruiting classes on signing day were from the SEC. At least according to USA Today. The others were Ohio State, Oregon and I think Michigan.
Nobody on this site has ever used the words ghetto trash. Whether you like it or not Notre Dame has standards. It is a world class University that will pass on kids who don't fit.
Any successful organization has a culture and standards to which their people adhere to.
I think a lot of you guys are way too hard on CMF and his recruiting classes. I'll yield there are some shortcomings for CMF and he's in the process of fixing those problems with added analysts, promoting Chad Bowden etc etc.
He's had better recruiting classes with less "on field proof" than his predecessor. Not even going to touch on the fact CMF has scouted and developed talent better than Big Game Bryan has so far.
Is it a pride thing that you didn't think he was a good hire so you're trying to wish that manifestation into existence.. Or perhaps losing to two MAC schools unforgiveable no matter what he does?
Do you feel like this program isn't trending in the right direction under his leadership?
Marcus has done a lot better than:
The last few years of Lou
And all of:
Davie
Willingham
Weis
And the first three of Kelly...
A lot of football programs would kill to have a coach like Marcus Freeman -- ask Ohio State, USC, hell even Bama!
I believe in this coach. I like this team. I like this class. Just keep winning, Irish. We'll be okay.
The last few years of Lou
And all of:
Davie
Willingham
Weis
And the first three of Kelly...
A lot of football programs would kill to have a coach like Marcus Freeman -- ask Ohio State, USC, hell even Bama!
I believe in this coach. I like this team. I like this class. Just keep winning, Irish. We'll be okay.
You’re a jacksss.. mediocre prospect because the rankings said so? Ben was developed? Haha his best year was a freshman..so scrotums take is this, “if they weren’t elite by the recruiting sites, they were developed”. Go sit on a carrot
RKG's are guys who sign and show up - every player who was offered and goes somewhere else is not.
