Told you all…

[Irish_inPSU]

But evidentially I’m stupid and don’t know what I’m talking about. Been told that quite a few times on this board.

This program is a mess. It’s not completely a coaching problem. It’s a culture problem and it’s a problem in how this university operates. I do not care what coach and staff you bring to ND, this will be the status quo. Coaches know it too and is why ND has a tough time attracting top coaching prospects. It’s career suicide.

I don’t want to hear the bs of Louisville or duke are world beater teams, etc. they are not. Solid? Maybe. But ND should have handily taken care of business… that is, if they we any good. They are not.

Hartman is not all that great. Our o line is a train wreck. It seems that OSU exposed something in our o line and both duke and Louisville exploited it. But Hartman… goodness he does not look good when he’s under pressure… AT ALL.

But again… at least we won’t get embarrassed in the playoffs…. Again.

 

[DieHard_Irish]

But evidentially I’m stupid and don’t know what I’m talking about. Been told that quite a few times on this board.

This program is a mess. It’s not completely a coaching problem. It’s a culture problem and it’s a problem in how this university operates. I do not care what coach and staff you bring to ND, this will be the status quo. Coaches know it too and is why ND has a tough time attracting top coaching prospects. It’s career suicide.

I don’t want to hear the bs of Louisville or duke are world beater teams, etc. they are not. Solid? Maybe. But ND should have handily taken care of business… that is, if they we any good. They are not.

Hartman is not all that great. Our o line is a train wreck. It seems that OSU exposed something in our o line and both duke and Louisville exploited it. But Hartman… goodness he does not look good when he’s under pressure… AT ALL.

But again… at least we won’t get embarrassed in the playoffs…. Again.

Agree on the Oline mess, and this team is a mess as well. WR room is shit; LBs are average st best, Liafau is a complete liability, and yes the culture is a losing culture, but disagree on Hartman. They can't run the ball at all, the OLine is grossly overrated and the receivers can't get open. Tough to blame the QB. Did he force some, well yeah, why not, trying to do something to make a play. I also agree without changes no top coaches want to come here; thats how far ND has fallen

 

[tkirish]

But evidentially I’m stupid and don’t know what I’m talking about. Been told that quite a few times on this board.

This program is a mess. It’s not completely a coaching problem. It’s a culture problem and it’s a problem in how this university operates. I do not care what coach and staff you bring to ND, this will be the status quo. Coaches know it too and is why ND has a tough time attracting top coaching prospects. It’s career suicide.

I don’t want to hear the bs of Louisville or duke are world beater teams, etc. they are not. Solid? Maybe. But ND should have handily taken care of business… that is, if they we any good. They are not.

Hartman is not all that great. Our o line is a train wreck. It seems that OSU exposed something in our o line and both duke and Louisville exploited it. But Hartman… goodness he does not look good when he’s under pressure… AT ALL.

But again… at least we won’t get embarrassed in the playoffs…. Again.

Well stated. Sad to say. But after years and years of watching, nothing will ever change unless it comes from the top.

 

[edub72]

ND just can’t ever get a hire right. They get good coordinators but not great head coaches. ND gets nice players but not great players.

 

[Patrirish]

But evidentially I’m stupid and don’t know what I’m talking about. Been told that quite a few times on this board.

This program is a mess. It’s not completely a coaching problem. It’s a culture problem and it’s a problem in how this university operates. I do not care what coach and staff you bring to ND, this will be the status quo. Coaches know it too and is why ND has a tough time attracting top coaching prospects. It’s career suicide.

I don’t want to hear the bs of Louisville or duke are world beater teams, etc. they are not. Solid? Maybe. But ND should have handily taken care of business… that is, if they we any good. They are not.

Hartman is not all that great. Our o line is a train wreck. It seems that OSU exposed something in our o line and both duke and Louisville exploited it. But Hartman… goodness he does not look good when he’s under pressure… AT ALL.

But again… at least we won’t get embarrassed in the playoffs…. Again.

B.S.

But you were 100 % correct in you’re opening sentence !

ND hasn’t had a tough time attracting coaches, because we haven’t tried to attract a HC

The timing of Kelly’s departure killed us.
Then we made the mistake of not hiring an interim coach for 2022.

Kelly’s record totally undermines your premise.
He had us vying for the NC 3 times in a 10 year period.

Hartman is that great, his body of work is outstanding and irrefutable.
But when you don’t have time and you don’t have a running game, the die is cast.

 

[savvyandsassier]

They should have hired a better OC. Hiring MF was already taking a gamble. And then pairing him with a crony assistant coach, who was seemingly totally unqualified, or underqualified at a minimum, was.... not good.

And still yet, all is not lost. But the program as a whole, and whoever represents it and has some sort of meaningful authority, ie our AD, and not merely MF alone on his own say-so, should have done everything in their power to get a first-rate OC under the circumstances. It was true then, and it's true now....

 

[Irish_inPSU]

B.S.

But you were 100 % correct in you’re opening sentence !

ND hasn’t had a tough time attracting coaches, because we haven’t tried to attract a HC

The timing of Kelly’s departure killed us.
Then we made the mistake of not hiring an interim coach for 2022.

Kelly’s record totally undermines your premise.
He had us vying for the NC 3 times in a 10 year period.

Hartman is that great, his body of work is outstanding and irrefutable.
But when you don’t have time and you don’t have a running game, the die is cast.

I probably am a little critical of Hartmans play the last three game. But boy he doesn’t look great under pressure at all. It’s a combination of what you said, I get it. But now that can of worms is open and every team we face knows that heavy pressure on this o line and him is the formula. He sort of reminds me of Tom Brady in that way. Brilliant when he has protection, but not so good under constant harassment.

I’d be on board with your statement about Kelly and making the playoffs if we actually competed in any of them. Sure seems like we made it by virtue of a lot of help and things falling our way, but we really didn’t belong there. Much like TCU last year but we did it three times.

 

[deadirishpoet]

But evidentially I’m stupid and don’t know what I’m talking about. Been told that quite a few times on this board.

This program is a mess. It’s not completely a coaching problem. It’s a culture problem and it’s a problem in how this university operates. I do not care what coach and staff you bring to ND, this will be the status quo. Coaches know it too and is why ND has a tough time attracting top coaching prospects. It’s career suicide.

I don’t want to hear the bs of Louisville or duke are world beater teams, etc. they are not. Solid? Maybe. But ND should have handily taken care of business… that is, if they we any good. They are not.

Hartman is not all that great. Our o line is a train wreck. It seems that OSU exposed something in our o line and both duke and Louisville exploited it. But Hartman… goodness he does not look good when he’s under pressure… AT ALL.

But again… at least we won’t get embarrassed in the playoffs…. Again.

Louisville was obviously familiar with Hartman and his style

 

[deadirishpoet]

B.S.

But you were 100 % correct in you’re opening sentence !

ND hasn’t had a tough time attracting coaches, because we haven’t tried to attract a HC

The timing of Kelly’s departure killed us.
Then we made the mistake of not hiring an interim coach for 2022.

Kelly’s record totally undermines your premise.
He had us vying for the NC 3 times in a 10 year period.

Hartman is that great, his body of work is outstanding and irrefutable.
But when you don’t have time and you don’t have a running game, the die is cast.

Just as the timing of Rees departure killed the offense

 

[mbd11]

They should have hired a better OC. Hiring MF was already taking a gamble. And then pairing him with a crony assistant coach, who was seemingly totally unqualified, or underqualified at a minimum, was.... not good.

And still yet, all is not lost. But the program as a whole, and whoever represents it and has some sort of meaningful authority, ie our AD, and not merely MF alone on his own say-so, should have done everything in their power to get a first-rate OC under the circumstances. It was true then, and it's true now....

To be fair, Rees left us very late. And Freeman tried to hire 2 outside OCs, who both turned us down. So then he settled on promoting Parker.

Parker did decently well earlier in the season, but last night wasn't his best game.

 

[buckey]

But evidentially I’m stupid and don’t know what I’m talking about. Been told that quite a few times on this board.

This program is a mess. It’s not completely a coaching problem. It’s a culture problem and it’s a problem in how this university operates. I do not care what coach and staff you bring to ND, this will be the status quo. Coaches know it too and is why ND has a tough time attracting top coaching prospects. It’s career suicide.

I don’t want to hear the bs of Louisville or duke are world beater teams, etc. they are not. Solid? Maybe. But ND should have handily taken care of business… that is, if they we any good. They are not.

Hartman is not all that great. Our o line is a train wreck. It seems that OSU exposed something in our o line and both duke and Louisville exploited it. But Hartman… goodness he does not look good when he’s under pressure… AT ALL.

But again… at least we won’t get embarrassed in the playoffs…. Again.

Good points. And yes you are stupid

 

[mbd11]

And at least we didn't have the worst loss of the evening - that would be Miami, who lost to a 2-3 Georgia Tech team, which had lost to Bowling Green the week before.

But there's a lot of parity in CFB nowadays. And I think the transfer portal has increased parity. But Louisville has a quality team and could end up in the ACC championship game.

 

[savvyandsassier]

To be fair, Rees left us very late. And Freeman tried to hire 2 outside OCs, who both turned us down. So then he settled on promoting Parker.

Parker did decently well earlier in the season, but last night wasn't his best game.

The last three weeks in a row haven't been too hot on offense. So it's a definitely trend line at this point.

I feel like it's a complete no-brainer, and always has been, that our OC was a terrible hire, and almost inexcusable that a program like ND, with our resources and pedigree and our aspirations, that you would hire someone so unqualified. And the fact that the timing was inconvenient is not kind any kind of excuse....

 

[mbd11]

The last three weeks in a row haven't been too hot on offense. So it's a definitely trend line at this point.

I feel like it's a complete no-brainer, and always has been, that our OC was a terrible hire, and almost inexcusable that a program like ND, with our resources and pedigree and our aspirations, that you would hire someone so unqualified. And the fact that the timing was inconvenient is not kind any kind of excuse....

Well, we just played 3 of the 4 best defenses we'll play all year, while down several receivers in the last two games. It was a tough stretch.

And as far as the timing being inconvenient, even Saban had a hard time finding an OC at that late date. Rees was reportedly like his 3rd or 4th choice.

 

[savvyandsassier]

Well, we just played 3 of the 4 best defenses we'll play all year, while down several receivers in the last two games. It was a tough stretch.

And as far as the timing being inconvenient, even Saban had a hard time finding an OC at that late date. Rees was reportedly like his 3rd or 4th choice.

I suppose that could be true, with the timing. I don't really know. It's still quite obviously, I feel totally confident in saying, a very less than ideal, suboptimal hire, without rehashing the whole Utah OC bungling. And the results are manifest....

 

[tkirish]

Let’s be real. On paper ND is better than Louisville. You’d never know it from last night. Louisville was more physical, faster and hungry. ND looked like another middle of the road nobody team. There’s so many issues you don’t know where to start. But the main issue is this. The administration doesn’t care about putting a championship caliber program together. That’s why you see the same exact product year after year. This is an 8-9 win program and the people running the show are fine with that. That’s the root of the problem.

 

[theskibro]

But evidentially I’m stupid and don’t know what I’m talking about. Been told that quite a few times on this board.

This program is a mess. It’s not completely a coaching problem. It’s a culture problem and it’s a problem in how this university operates. I do not care what coach and staff you bring to ND, this will be the status quo. Coaches know it too and is why ND has a tough time attracting top coaching prospects. It’s career suicide.

I don’t want to hear the bs of Louisville or duke are world beater teams, etc. they are not. Solid? Maybe. But ND should have handily taken care of business… that is, if they we any good. They are not.

Hartman is not all that great. Our o line is a train wreck. It seems that OSU exposed something in our o line and both duke and Louisville exploited it. But Hartman… goodness he does not look good when he’s under pressure… AT ALL.

But again… at least we won’t get embarrassed in the playoffs…. Again.

If I ever doubted u I am sorry. Let’s say it together. It’s cathartic. We suck

 

[Irish_inPSU]

Let’s be real. On paper ND is better than Louisville. You’d never know it from last night. Louisville was more physical, faster and hungry. ND looked like another middle of the road nobody team. There’s so many issues you don’t know where to start. But the main issue is this. The administration doesn’t care about putting a championship caliber program together. That’s why you see the same exact product year after year. This is an 8-9 win program and the people running the show are fine with that. That’s the root of the problem.

💯… and as long as everyone keeps talking “the brand” and that brand keeps making money, it will not change.

 

[notredame79]

Louisville was obviously familiar with Hartman and his style

Hartman has never had a good game against Louisville. Of course, it doesn’t help that o-line could block and the OC wouldn’t call plays to try to slow down the pass rush.

 

[mbd11]

Let’s be real. On paper ND is better than Louisville. You’d never know it from last night. Louisville was more physical, faster and hungry. ND looked like another middle of the road nobody team. There’s so many issues you don’t know where to start. But the main issue is this. The administration doesn’t care about putting a championship caliber program together. That’s why you see the same exact product year after year. This is an 8-9 win program and the people running the show are fine with that. That’s the root of the problem.

Disagree. I think they want to win. However, it's not as easy as you seem to think. Throwing a bunch of money at it is no guarantee. Look at TX A&M and Miami. You don't think they're trying to win, too? And yet A&M's struggling and Miami just took a bad loss after their good start. And Clemson's hit a rough patch after their great 7-8 year run.

Winning at a high level consistently isn't as easy as Saban and Smart make it look. Those guys are just really good.

 

[HuddleBurger]

Let’s be real. On paper ND is better than Louisville. You’d never know it from last night. Louisville was more physical, faster and hungry. ND looked like another middle of the road nobody team. There’s so many issues you don’t know where to start. But the main issue is this. The administration doesn’t care about putting a championship caliber program together. That’s why you see the same exact product year after year. This is an 8-9 win program and the people running the show are fine with that. That’s the root of the problem.

This exactly. I just have gradually stopped caring about winning it all, once I realized the school admin were getting out of the game in Holtz' last 4 years. Much more realistic to just realize ND will probably have a few losses every year & some of them might be to inferior opponents. Talent pipeline just isn't there anymore -- for players or coaches.

 

[sjb75]

This exactly. I just have gradually stopped caring about winning it all, once I realized the school admin were getting out of the game in Holtz' last 4 years. Much more realistic to just realize ND will probably have a few losses every year & some of them might be to inferior opponents. Talent pipeline just isn't there anymore -- for players or coaches.

Yet, here you are on a Sunday afternoon.

 

[tkirish]

Disagree. I think they want to win. However, it's not as easy as you seem to think. Throwing a bunch of money at it is no guarantee. Look at TX A&M and Miami. You don't think they're trying to win, too? And yet A&M's struggling and Miami just took a bad loss after their good start. And Clemson's hit a rough patch after their great 7-8 year run.

Winning at a high level consistently isn't as easy as Saban and Smart make it look. Those guys are just really good.

I am not talking about money. I like MF. But he is literally learning on the job. He may turn out to be great. Time will tell. But if you are serious about having a championship caliber program , you find a coach with experience and give him the tools to get elite players. But the administration is happy with a mediocre program. I just saw a stat. When ND is in the top ten under MF and they played a top 25 program , ND has lost each time. That tells me they are way overrated. They need to get better players and have much better coaching

 

[Patrirish]

I probably am a little critical of Hartmans play the last three game. But boy he doesn’t look great under pressure at all. It’s a combination of what you said, I get it. But now that can of worms is open and every team we face knows that heavy pressure on this o line and him is the formula. He sort of reminds me of Tom Brady in that way. Brilliant when he has protection, but not so good under constant harassment.

I’d be on board with your statement about Kelly and making the playoffs if we actually competed in any of them. Sure seems like we made it by virtue of a lot of help and things falling our way, but we really didn’t belong there. Much like TCU last year but we did it three times.

Yes, but Ohio State and Alabama also got drilled worse than we did, did they not belong there.

No QB excels when they’re on their back and when they don’t have an effective running game

Look what happened to the undefeated Patriots when they played a so-so Giants team in the Super Bowl.

Not all outcomes follow the expected script !

 

[Patrirish]

Louisville was obviously familiar with Hartman and his style

OUR OLINE FAILED ….. END OF STORY !

 

[Patrirish]

The last three weeks in a row haven't been too hot on offense. So it's a definitely trend line at this point.

I feel like it's a complete no-brainer, and always has been, that our OC was a terrible hire, and almost inexcusable that a program like ND, with our resources and pedigree and our aspirations, that you would hire someone so unqualified. And the fact that the timing was inconvenient is not kind any kind of excuse....

Kelly clearly fooked us !

 

[Patrirish]

Well, we just played 3 of the 4 best defenses we'll play all year, while down several receivers in the last two games. It was a tough stretch.

And as far as the timing being inconvenient, even Saban had a hard time finding an OC at that late date. Rees was reportedly like his 3rd or 4th choice.

We were ONLY down receivers at one receiving slot

 

[Patrirish]

The last three weeks in a row haven't been too hot on offense. So it's a definitely trend line at this point.

I feel like it's a complete no-brainer, and always has been, that our OC was a terrible hire, and almost inexcusable that a program like ND, with our resources and pedigree and our aspirations, that you would hire someone so unqualified. And the fact that the timing was inconvenient is not kind any kind of excuse....

That’s on the HC

 

[mbd11]

We were ONLY down receivers at one receiving slot

Thomas and Greathouse both barely played yesterday. So I'm assuming they're still not 100%.

 

[Patrirish]

Let’s be real. On paper ND is better than Louisville. You’d never know it from last night. Louisville was more physical, faster and hungry. ND looked like another middle of the road nobody team. There’s so many issues you don’t know where to start. But the main issue is this. The administration doesn’t care about putting a championship caliber program together. That’s why you see the same exact product year after year. This is an 8-9 win program and the people running the show are fine with that. That’s the root of the problem.

That’s ABSOLUTELY NOT TRUE

YOU DON‘T KNOW WHAT YOU’RE TALKING ABOUT.

WHOM, IN THE ADMINISTRATION DOESN‘T CARE ABOUT PUTTING A CHAMPIONSHIP PROGRAM TOGETHER ?

PLEASE NAME THEM !

 

[mbd11]

I am not talking about money. I like MF. But he is literally learning on the job. He may turn out to be great. Time will tell. But if you are serious about having a championship caliber program , you find a coach with experience and give him the tools to get elite players. But the administration is happy with a mediocre program. I just saw a stat. When ND is in the top ten under MF and they played a top 25 program , ND has lost each time. That tells me they are way overrated. They need to get better players and have much better coaching

Neither Smart nor Day had ever been a HC before. But I agree Freeman lacked experience; however, that's no guarantee of success, either. There are plenty of experienced head coaches who don't work out at their new jobs, too.

 

[Patrirish]

💯… and as long as everyone keeps talking “the brand” and that brand keeps making money, it will not change.

YOU DON’T KNOW WHAT YOUR TALKING ABOUT !

NAME THOSE WHO JUST RELY ON THE BRAND.

 

[Patrirish]

Disagree. I think they want to win. However, it's not as easy as you seem to think. Throwing a bunch of money at it is no guarantee. Look at TX A&M and Miami. You don't think they're trying to win, too? And yet A&M's struggling and Miami just took a bad loss after their good start. And Clemson's hit a rough patch after their great 7-8 year run.

Winning at a high level consistently isn't as easy as Saban and Smart make it look. Those guys are just really good.

👍

 

[Patrirish]

This exactly. I just have gradually stopped caring about winning it all, once I realized the school admin were getting out of the game in Holtz' last 4 years. Much more realistic to just realize ND will probably have a few losses every year & some of them might be to inferior opponents. Talent pipeline just isn't there anymore -- for players or coaches.

You’re dead wrong !

ND vied for three NC’s in a ten year span

Whom, in the administration doesn’t want to win a NC ?

 

[Patrirish]

I am not talking about money. I like MF. But he is literally learning on the job. He may turn out to be great. Time will tell. But if you are serious about having a championship caliber program , you find a coach with experience and give him the tools to get elite players. But the administration is happy with a mediocre program. I just saw a stat. When ND is in the top ten under MF and they played a top 25 program , ND has lost each time. That tells me they are way overrated. They need to get better players and have much better coaching

Absolutely WRONG !

Name the individuals in the administration who are happy with a mediocre program ?

 

[rrdd2021]

ND just can’t ever get a hire right. They get good coordinators but not great head coaches. ND gets nice players but not great players.

You have a great DC.......the problem is that he's your HC

 

[deadirishpoet]

You have a great DC.......the problem is that he's your HC

Who knows how long the DC stays
The HC is a work in progress and if there us progress then that will not be an issue

 

[tkirish]

Absolutely WRONG !

Name the individuals in the administration who are happy with a mediocre program ?

First it was Malloy. Now Fr Jenkins. I'll also say this. Kelly left because he wants to win a NC at some point. He was there 12 years and even though he had 2 playoffs and 1 NC game, those teams were crushed in those games. If you want to win those games, you need equal or better talent. He didn’t have that. Fr Malloy said he wanted to more like Stanford saying they are they are “ aspirational peers “. Or something like that. Don’t believe me ? Google it. That sure doesn’t sound like a commitment to your football program. Jenkins and company are continuing the trend.

 

[Patrirish]

First it was Malloy. Now Fr Jenkins. I'll also say this. Kelly left because he wants to win a NC at some point. He was there 12 years and even though he had 2 playoffs and 1 NC game, those teams were crushed in those games. If you want to win those games, you need equal or better talent. He didn’t have that. Fr Malloy said he wanted to more like Stanford saying they are they are “ aspirational peers “. Or something like that. Don’t believe me ? Google it. That sure doesn’t sound like a commitment to your football program. Jenkins and company are continuing the trend.

Monk Malloy was a scholarship basketball player at ND and pro athletics.

I gave him the book “The Making of the Masters” in the hope that he would replicate Augusta’s approach to controlling the nd football telecasts.

What makes you think that Malloy is anti-football excellence ?

 

[Patrirish]

Who knows how long the DC stays
The HC is a work in progress and if there us progress then that will not be an issue

That’s a big IF