Thoughts On The Navy Game

[IrishInOntario]

1. Deshone Kizer may have been the worst player on the field today. His accuracy is absolutely deplorable, a trend that has continued. I'm ready for him to move on because he's not improving. The NFL will draft him high based on potential, but that accuracy is going to keep him on the bench unless he commits to fixing it.

2. The fact that Scott Booker has not been fired shows continude incompetence on Kelly's behalf to manage his staff. Loyalty is huge aspect of football, but loyalty to a fault is insanity and will and should cost a head coach his job.

3. You have to go for it on that 4th down because Navy is never kicking a field goal. You have to score when you have the opportunity, but then again, when your QB is playing is poorly as Kizer I don't know if you trust him to pick up 4 yards. He missed reads all over the field.

4. I feel for the defense. They played hard again today and were well prepared. In particular, I thought Onwualu, Martini and Love battled like crazy. Love passion and effort from a young group on that side of the ball. They were screwed by another special mistake, or they hold Navy to 21 points, a very good defensive effort against a tough offense to handle.

5. Kevin Stepherson is going to be a poor man's Will Fuller. Really good player in the making. Better hands than Fuller, not quite the speed. He and St. Brown give you some nice weapons on the perimeter for the future.

6. Congrats to Navy, those kids play damn hard and are well coached... With that said and mean no disrespect to the US Naval Academy, but those kids get soooo much pitty from the refs for being undersized. I'm not going to go on the cut block vs chop block soap box, but they get with the most blatant holds on the perimeter and the refs don't even think of flagging them. At one point the announcers said they have only 17 total penalties this year, which infuriates me. Yes there are missed or uncalled penalties on each play in college football, but point of attack penalties are almost never ignored. What thr kids get away with (just because of who they are) along the sidelines, right in front of the refs, is abysmal and embarrassing for the sport. It' been going on for years.

I have great respect for everything those kids stand and play for, but it's year, after year, of the same nonsense. I don't care how small they are, the rules ought to be the same for everyone.

7. Brian Kelly is on his way out, and it will be interesting to see if Swarbrick and University swallow the millions they'll pay out, or if they give Kelly another year in which this team will undoubtedly be better. I've gone on record saying that they'll win at least 8 games, but they're not going to the playoffs under this staff. Kelly has done a lot to prepare this program for success and has the next staff set up fairly well for success, but it's obviously approaching the time (some would argue the time has passed) for fresh ideas and new energy in South Bend. Kelly's teams haven't quit on him and they are competitive every week, but competitive is for up-and-coming programs, Notre Dame is an established program. There is no reason a coach at ND can't win 9+ games each year.

JMO.

 

[ndhell]

It seems like there are fewer and fewer ND fans who care. More people were on the message boards back in the day when Willingham and Weis were stinking up the joint. There doesn't seem to be as many people who give a damn nowadays.

 

[end_23]

Lol.

Prolix.

You are the most narcissistic individual on this board.

 

[IrishInOntario]

Lol.

Prolix.

You are the most narcissistic individual on this board.

Any thoughts on any of the 7 points I made?

 

[sshulk]

Good points I agree with most of what you write. ND had 6 possessions in this game, scored 5 times (3 TD, 2 FGs) ... and one 3 and out with some awful overthrows. ND barely had to pass but did anyway and it led to some 3rd and longs, killed momentum on some drives and forced us to kick FGs. Navy had 6 possessions, (4 TDs, one turn over on downs and one end of game). Navy barely had to pass so they barely passed but put the game away on an easy pitch and catch. ND mental error also extended one drive and led to 4th down conversion.

I think Kelly out coached himself this game.

 

[van_irish]

IIO...thought it was funny from the start of the game the one announcer was all over Kizer the way you depicted...for some reason no one has been that critical of him...he really needs to work on his foot work

don't know what happened to him, but ever since the hurricane he has been avg. at best.

The problem with Kelly, is not the decision to kick the FG on 4th, it's the three plays before it, and not thinking about what you said, so you at worse are looking at a 4th and 2 situation...it's just terrible to be making decisions at the time of the play vs. How to play each set of 4 downs

 

[PHJIndy]

Any thoughts on any of the 7 points I made?

I agree with your seven points, especially #6. It seems like there was a lot of "service respect" shown by the officials in this one. There were numerous holding calls that could have been flagged and a face mask to an Irish ball carrier that was blatant. If anyone disagrees with IIO and I, I invite you to come over and view the video. Navy had one false start penalty all game and that's laughable!

 

[Bumpdaddy]

1. Deshone Kizer may have been the worst player on the field today. His accuracy is absolutely deplorable, a trend that has continued. I'm ready for him to move on because he's not improving. The NFL will draft him high based on potential, but that accuracy is going to keep him on the bench unless he commits to fixing it.

2. The fact that Scott Booker has not been fired shows continude incompetence on Kelly's behalf to manage his staff. Loyalty is huge aspect of football, but loyalty to a fault is insanity and will and should cost a head coach his job.

3. You have to go for it on that 4th down because Navy is never kicking a field goal. You have to score when you have the opportunity, but then again, when your QB is playing is poorly as Kizer I don't know if you trust him to pick up 4 yards. He missed reads all over the field.

4. I feel for the defense. They played hard again today and were well prepared. In particular, I thought Onwualu, Martini and Love battled like crazy. Love passion and effort from a young group on that side of the ball. They were screwed by another special mistake, or they hold Navy to 21 points, a very good defensive effort against a tough offense to handle.

5. Kevin Stepherson is going to be a poor man's Will Fuller. Really good player in the making. Better hands than Fuller, not quite the speed. He and St. Brown give you some nice weapons on the perimeter for the future.

6. Congrats to Navy, those kids play damn hard and are well coached... With that said and mean no disrespect to the US Naval Academy, but those kids get soooo much pitty from the refs for being undersized. I'm not going to go on the cut block vs chop block soap box, but they get with the most blatant holds on the perimeter and the refs don't even think of flagging them. At one point the announcers said they have only 17 total penalties this year, which infuriates me. Yes there are missed or uncalled penalties on each play in college football, but point of attack penalties are almost never ignored. What thr kids get away with (just because of who they are) along the sidelines, right in front of the refs, is abysmal and embarrassing for the sport. It' been going on for years.

I have great respect for everything those kids stand and play for, but it's year, after year, of the same nonsense. I don't care how small they are, the rules ought to be the same for everyone.

7. Brian Kelly is on his way out, and it will be interesting to see if Swarbrick and University swallow the millions they'll pay out, or if they give Kelly another year in which this team will undoubtedly be better. I've gone on record saying that they'll win at least 8 games, but they're not going to the playoffs under this staff. Kelly has done a lot to prepare this program for success and has the next staff set up fairly well for success, but it's obviously approaching the time (some would argue the time has passed) for fresh ideas and new energy in South Bend. Kelly's teams haven't quit on him and they are competitive every week, but competitive is for up-and-coming programs, Notre Dame is an established program. There is no reason a coach at ND can't win 9+ games each year.

JMO.

I usually enjoy your insight but it sounds an awful lot like you are putting this loss on Kizer as much as BK and you are giving the defense a free pass. Our defense was awful today. Yes, if they had held Navy to 21 points they might not have been as bad but, against option teams like Navy, time of possession matters - a LOT - almost as much as the number of points given up. We only had 2 offensive possessions in the second half. Two. It's hard to put the loss on an offense when they can't get on the field because your defense can't get off the field. Sure, the D finally made a stop near the end of the 3rd quarter, and yes, our special teams royally screwed us yet again to give Navy another chance to continue their drive. But guess what? Navy did continue their drive until they made it all the way to the end zone. Why? Because our defense went back to being awful. Their stop against Navy's offense at that point in the game was the anomaly, what happened after that was the norm. If we didn't have that penalty it would have been only the 2nd stop in the game (not counting Navy's possession at the end of the 1st half) and there was absolutely no evidence we would have gotten a 3rd stop.

As far as Kizer is concerned, yes, he made some really, really bad throws and bad reads. But he was still 19/27, 227yds, 3tds/0int. The offense scored on every possession but one. The offense and Kizer weren't great but they were good and performed well enough to win had our defense been able to get off the field. To the extent that Kizer's accuracy has regressed, it seems every QB at ND has regressed under Kelly while at ND and that includes the backups (think Hendrix and Zaire). I don't think it makes sense to single out Kizer when the trend seems to be very clear. Why should we want to move on to the next guy if we can't fix this trend?

Your other points were spot on.

 

[Shakin' Down the Thunder]

1. Deshone Kizer may have been the worst player on the field today. His accuracy is absolutely deplorable, a trend that has continued. I'm ready for him to move on because he's not improving. The NFL will draft him high based on potential, but that accuracy is going to keep him on the bench unless he commits to fixing it.

2. The fact that Scott Booker has not been fired shows continude incompetence on Kelly's behalf to manage his staff. Loyalty is huge aspect of football, but loyalty to a fault is insanity and will and should cost a head coach his job.

3. You have to go for it on that 4th down because Navy is never kicking a field goal. You have to score when you have the opportunity, but then again, when your QB is playing is poorly as Kizer I don't know if you trust him to pick up 4 yards. He missed reads all over the field.

4. I feel for the defense. They played hard again today and were well prepared. In particular, I thought Onwualu, Martini and Love battled like crazy. Love passion and effort from a young group on that side of the ball. They were screwed by another special mistake, or they hold Navy to 21 points, a very good defensive effort against a tough offense to handle.

5. Kevin Stepherson is going to be a poor man's Will Fuller. Really good player in the making. Better hands than Fuller, not quite the speed. He and St. Brown give you some nice weapons on the perimeter for the future.

6. Congrats to Navy, those kids play damn hard and are well coached... With that said and mean no disrespect to the US Naval Academy, but those kids get soooo much pitty from the refs for being undersized. I'm not going to go on the cut block vs chop block soap box, but they get with the most blatant holds on the perimeter and the refs don't even think of flagging them. At one point the announcers said they have only 17 total penalties this year, which infuriates me. Yes there are missed or uncalled penalties on each play in college football, but point of attack penalties are almost never ignored. What thr kids get away with (just because of who they are) along the sidelines, right in front of the refs, is abysmal and embarrassing for the sport. It' been going on for years.

I have great respect for everything those kids stand and play for, but it's year, after year, of the same nonsense. I don't care how small they are, the rules ought to be the same for everyone.

7. Brian Kelly is on his way out, and it will be interesting to see if Swarbrick and University swallow the millions they'll pay out, or if they give Kelly another year in which this team will undoubtedly be better. I've gone on record saying that they'll win at least 8 games, but they're not going to the playoffs under this staff. Kelly has done a lot to prepare this program for success and has the next staff set up fairly well for success, but it's obviously approaching the time (some would argue the time has passed) for fresh ideas and new energy in South Bend. Kelly's teams haven't quit on him and they are competitive every week, but competitive is for up-and-coming programs, Notre Dame is an established program. There is no reason a coach at ND can't win 9+ games each year.

JMO.

I don't think Kizer among others gave their best effort today. Kizer can be reckless at times and plays like he's always got a chance to come back and make up for his mistakes. I think that's what Kizer didn't realize, is that he was going to have limited possessions.

In addition to the effort, I really wasn't surprised ND lost today. Let's be honest, what is ND playing for? Kelly's job? They know their a better team than Navy and Navy just wanted this game more than ND did. If ND was in contention for the playoffs, I think this would have been a whole different game. I think the players got up/excited for last week's game, because it was Miami and at home. I suspect they'll beat Army, because Army is just awful. They may have a chance against VT, as it's the last home game for some seniors. Can't see any way ND beats SC on the road, especially with SC building some momentum right now. It's clear that Kelly has lost this team.

Absolutely agree that Kelly is loyal to a fault in regards to your comments about Booker. This is the biggest reason why I think Kelly needs to go. I think for the most part, Kelly will hold his players accountable, but not his staff. I just can't trust Kelly to make the coaching changes/assignments when necessary. Holtz never had a problem firing coaches. If I remember right, Holtz even fired his own son. Can anyone recall Kelly firing another coach other than BVG?

I think the next month will tell us where the university truly stands on making their football program competitive/elite. We all know had this been happening at LSU/OSU/FSU/Texas, he'd likely be fired already. For crying out loud, even Fresno State and Purdue have fired their coaches. But ND does it differently. They always let the coach finish out the season. Personally, I don't have a problem with that, especially since this is Kelly's 7th year with the program and has run the program with integrity. As angry, as I am with Kelly right now, he does deserve to finish the year with this team.

IMO

 

[hoopsstar12]

I barely watched the Miami game and I didn't watch the Navy game. So whoever posted that the fans are disinterested is spot on. Only good thing about this is cheap ticket prices and ND gear.

 

[michigaNDer#1]

I don't think Kizer among others gave their best effort today. Kizer can be reckless at times and plays like he's always got a chance to come back and make up for his mistakes. I think that's what Kizer didn't realize, is that he was going to have limited possessions.

In addition to the effort, I really wasn't surprised ND lost today. Let's be honest, what is ND playing for? Kelly's job? They know their a better team than Navy and Navy just wanted this game more than ND did. If ND was in contention for the playoffs, I think this would have been a whole different game. I think the players got up/excited for last week's game, because it was Miami and at home. I suspect they'll beat Army, because Army is just awful. They may have a chance against VT, as it's the last home game for some seniors. Can't see any way ND beats SC on the road, especially with SC building some momentum right now. It's clear that Kelly has lost this team.

Absolutely agree that Kelly is loyal to a fault in regards to your comments about Booker. This is the biggest reason why I think Kelly needs to go. I think for the most part, Kelly will hold his players accountable, but not his staff. I just can't trust Kelly to make the coaching changes/assignments when necessary. Holtz never had a problem firing coaches. If I remember right, Holtz even fired his own son. Can anyone recall Kelly firing another coach other than BVG?

I think the next month will tell us where the university truly stands on making their football program competitive/elite. We all know had this been happening at LSU/OSU/FSU/Texas, he'd likely be fired already. For crying out loud, even Fresno State and Purdue have fired their coaches. But ND does it differently. They always let the coach finish out the season. Personally, I don't have a problem with that, especially since this is Kelly's 7th year with the program and has run the program with integrity. As angry, as I am with Kelly right now, he does deserve to finish the year with this team.

IMO

But do the players deserve Kelly for the rest of the year? He sure hasn't helped them win.

 

[mbd11]

I can't fault Kizer and the offense as much as you do. We only had 6 offensive possessions (the fewest by any FBS team since 2008). We scored 3 TDs, 2 FGs and punted once. That's not too bad. Kizer had 223 yds, 3 TDs, 0 INTs. That's not too bad either.

But the defense couldn't get off the field. Navy kept marching on long drives. The defense did play hard, but they couldn't stop Navy. Not counting the end of the half, Navy also had 6 possessions. 4 TDs, once stopped on downs, and the last drive where they ran out the clock for over 7 minutes. This loss is more on the defense.

 

[Shakin' Down the Thunder]

But do the players deserve Kelly for the rest of the year? He sure hasn't helped them win.

No, they don't. But like I said, ND does it differently.

 

[impossibilityofreason1]

4th and 4, down 4 against a ball control offense let's kick a fg. Can't wait for next year with this great coach of ours.

 

[DieHard_Irish]

I don't see Kizer getting any better, rather the opposite. His play has deteriorated all season. Why? I don't know, but it's fairly obvious. I just think this is the most under coached team that I've seen. ND won't do it, but they need to fire the HC and get someone who knows how to win with power football and defense. Otherwise we will continue as we are.

 

[michigaNDer#1]

4th and 4, down 4 against a ball control offense let's kick a fg. Can't wait for next year with this great coach of ours.

Who's waiting til next year? Try next week. You think Brian the Kid isn't coming out with guns blazing next week? He'll do something stupid against Army, and do you really think he's going to be flawless against VT or USC?

 

[IrishHerb]

#1 Agree.
#2 Agree.
#3 Agree, especially in the 4th quarter. When Kelly decided to kick, my thought were "oh shit, we're 1 point down and either we're never going to get the ball back or we're going to be 8 down after the ensuing Navy drive.
#4 Agree. But think that after playing Navy these past 6 years, Kelly would have some inkling of how to stop this offense. Apparently he is still in the dark as to how to do it.
#5 Agree.
#6 No comment. I do agree Navy seems to get away with a lot, but so did ND on what looked like a pass interference towards the end of the game.
#7 Agree. Never thought Kelly was the right guy for the job. He did have a great year in 2012 ... but had to slug it out with teams that had no business of being on the same field as us, ... losing to teams that we should have beaten easily, ... etc, etc. I think its time for him to go.

 

[impossibilityofreason1]

Who's waiting til next year? Try next week. You think Brian the Kid isn't coming out with guns blazing next week? He'll do something stupid against Army, and do you really think he's going to be flawless against VT or USC?

I'm referring to Swarbrick saying that Kelly will walk out of the tunnel next year. The excitement is too much.

 

[michigaNDer#1]

I'm referring to Swarbrick saying that Kelly will walk out of the tunnel next year. The excitement is too much.

I don't believe a word Jack said. What did you want him to say? "We look horrible. I will immediately put feelers out there with coach's agents and start the search for a winner while Brian finished the year."

 

[KJ23]

I went to Dairy Queen with my kids today and missed the 4th qtr. I'm glad.

 

[impossibilityofreason1]

Fire him before saying he would be back and an assistant coaches the team. Happens all the time. Now Swarbrick look's like an incompetent liar at seasons end if he choses to fire him then.

 

[shooter1977]

The biggest problem is the administration's approach to football. ND continues to follow this nebulous academic standard for players where they make exceptions, kinda, sorta. Show me the last starting QB or Alize Jones type player Clemson or Oklahoma suspended.

Spare us the, I don't want ND to be a football factory like USC or Alabama. That's what they were under Holtz and even more so in the Rockne and Leahy days. I've had former players under Holtz tell me this verbatim.

ND is already lowering the bar for football players, so why not relax it to the level of other top 25 teams? Would it be so bad that 20 students a year are allowed to attend ND and pursue a career in professional football?

We can run Kelly out, but we'll run into the same problems with the next coach unless things change.

 

[DieHard_Irish]

The biggest problem is administration's approach to football. ND continues to follow this nebulous academic standard for players where they make exceptions, kinda, sorta. Show me the last starting QB or Alize Jones type player Clemson or Oklahoma suspended.

Spare us the, I don't want ND to be a football factory like USC or Alabama. That's what they were under Holtz and even more so in the Rockne and Leahy days. I've had former players under Holtz tell me this verbatim.

ND is already lowering the bar for football players, so why not relax it to the level of other top 25 teams? Would it be so bad that 20 students a year are allowed to attend ND and pursue a career in professional football?

We can run Kelly out, but we'll run into the same problems with the next coach unless things change.

I don't agree with you, but I do understand and respect your opinion. But we are not losing these games, this year, because we don't have talented players. We're losing because our coaching staff sucks. We don't have Alabama talent, but we sure as hell do have, Duke, MSU, Navy, Stanford etc. etc. talent, so what you are advocating really doesn't apply here.

 

[IrishHerb]

The biggest problem is administration's approach to football. ND continues to follow this nebulous academic standard for players where they make exceptions, kinda, sorta. Show me the last starting QB or Alize Jones type player Clemson or Oklahoma suspended.

Spare us the, I don't want ND to be a football factory like USC or Alabama. That's what they were under Holtz and even more so in the Rockne and Leahy days. I've had former players under Holtz tell me this verbatim.

ND is already lowering the bar for football players, so why not relax it to the level of other top 25 teams? Would it be so bad that 20 students a year are allowed to attend ND and pursue a career in professional football?

We can run Kelly out, but we'll run into the same problems with the next coach unless things change.

Can't agree with this.

With the talent we have now ... give me a coach like Shaw or Harbaugh and see what he could do for our team. I know Shaw's Stanford team hasn't been up to standard this year, but they're still beating teams the should beat ... something Kelly is failing to do.

 

[IrishInOntario]

I know a lot of people are defending Kizer based on his stats today, but look at the big picture....

He sailed a ball way over the head of Kevin Stepherson on a wide open, surefire, touchdown. Easy points left off the board because of a terrible throw. On the crossing pattern to Stepherson he tossed it behind him, forcing the kid to make a great catch that would have been a much more successful play had it been on time and accurate. He then throws to high fastballs way over the head of his intended targets, in the red zone, on the most important series of the game. The ball to Hunter was terrible as well and would have been a touchdown had it just been thrown on a rope in the huge window. Even some of his short passes on hitches and screens forced receivers to leave their feet to catch the ball, totally screwing up their momentum and timing. Yeah he was 19-27, but about 5 of those incompletions were terrible throws, and 2 of them were surefire touchdowns, while another two would have put ND in position to score a touchdown on the final drive. and on top of that of the 19 he completed, several were poorly thrown balls in which his receivers bailed him out, and worse yet, he missed a number of wide open receivers in the middle of the field, that would have been big chunk plays.

I know it sounds like I'm being hard on the kid, but he really wasn't sharp today. When you have young receivers and you're a veteran quarterback, you need to help them out, not make their job harder. I thought Notre Dame left some really important points on the board today, and that was on Kizer... That Navy secondary was terrible. Like Syracuse terrible.

As for the defense. I don't know what more ND could ask of them. They stuffed Navy on 4th down in the first half and held them to 14 points at halftime. In the 2nd half they manned up again and forced a key punt, only to have special teams screw thme again. They were gassed by that point and it was inevitable that Navy was going To score after the penalty gave them 4th and 1... Yes the scoreboard says the hey surrendered 28 points, but only 21 of them were actually on the hey he defense and that is a fine effort vs Navy.... Also, ND possessions weren't just limited because of Navy's long drives. Kizer's failure to connect on some easy, big chunk plays and scores, milked the clock (ND had the edge in time of possession in the first half) and cost ND the opportunity to have more time and extra possesssions. The same is true of the penalty on the special teams, which essentially cost ND a possession. The Irish should have had 8 or 9 possessions based solely on factors that have nothing to do with the defense. A combination of Kelly, Kizer and Special Teams limited ND's possessions by probably 33%.

For those people blaming the defense, would have you bet on an ND win of I told you they would hold a good Navy offense to 28 points?.. I would have put money down on that (and subsequently lost it). I had ND at roughly 8 possessions and at least 34 points in this game.

 

[Irish Grandeur]

Any thoughts on any of the 7 points I made?

I think nr. 7 made the most sense. We may not see it this year or next year but BK has got to go. His teams have beaten no one finishing in the top 10 and lost to every top 10 team. Now he is losing regularly to teams in the top 30+.

 

[ndhell]

I think nr. 7 made the most sense. We may not see it this year or next year but BK has got to go. His teams have beaten no one finishing in the top 10 and lost to every top 10 team. Now he is losing regularly to teams in the top 30+.

It's all down hill from here.

 

[Legendsteve]

After watching ND this season it is certain that the only way one could expect The Irish to win, is to not be objective with what is going on and what we see. This coaching staff is horrible. ND will struggle to beat Army. Forget VT and USC. It is what it is. A dumpster fire.

 

[DieHard_Irish]

I know a lot of people are defending Kizer based on his stats today, but look at the big picture....

He sailed a ball way over the head of Kevin Stepherson on a wide open, surefire, touchdown. Easy points left off the board because of a terrible throw. On the crossing pattern to Stepherson he tossed it behind him, forcing the kid to make a great catch that would have been a much more successful play had it been on time and accurate. He then throws to high fastballs way over the head of his intended targets, in the red zone, on the most important series of the game. The ball to Hunter was terrible as well and would have been a touchdown had it just been thrown on a rope in the huge window. Even some of his short passes on hitches and screens forced receivers to leave their feet to catch the ball, totally screwing up their momentum and timing. Yeah he was 19-27, but about 5 of those incompletions were terrible throws, and 2 of them were surefire touchdowns, while another two would have put ND in position to score a touchdown on the final drive. and on top of that of the 19 he completed, several were poorly thrown balls in which his receivers bailed him out, and worse yet, he missed a number of wide open receivers in the middle of the field, that would have been big chunk plays.

I know it sounds like I'm being hard on the kid, but he really wasn't sharp today. When you have young receivers and you're a veteran quarterback, you need to help them out, not make their job harder. I thought Notre Dame left some really important points on the board today, and that was on Kizer... That Navy secondary was terrible. Like Syracuse terrible.

As for the defense. I don't know what more ND could ask of them. They stuffed Navy on 4th down in the first half and held them to 14 points at halftime. In the 2nd half they manned up again and forced a key punt, only to have special teams screw thme again. They were gassed by that point and it was inevitable that Navy was going To score after the penalty gave them 4th and 1... Yes the scoreboard says the hey surrendered 28 points, but only 21 of them were actually on the hey he defense and that is a fine effort vs Navy.... Also, ND possessions weren't just limited because of Navy's long drives. Kizer's failure to connect on some easy, big chunk plays and scores, milked the clock (ND had the edge in time of possession in the first half) and cost ND the opportunity to have more time and extra possesssions. The same is true of the penalty on the special teams, which essentially cost ND a possession. The Irish should have had 8 or 9 possessions based solely on factors that have nothing to do with the defense. A combination of Kelly, Kizer and Special Teams limited ND's possessions by probably 33%.

For those people blaming the defense, would have you bet on an ND win of I told you they would hold a good Navy offense to 28 points?.. I would have put money down on that (and subsequently lost it). I had ND at roughly 8 possessions and at least 34 points in this game.

This!

DK's play has been deteriorating for weeks. Another player not getting any better with this coaching staff. Just can't explain that. This staff needs to go. Notre Dame needs to get back to power football and defense, or they will continue to suck. What really needs to happen is the flow of $$$ needs to stop coming in, then you'll see change. Until that happens, we'll all need to live with it as is.

 

[shooter1977]

Herb, Diehard - I'm not excusing Kelly for this disaster of a season. It's a better looking 2007. But I strongly believe the administration needs to change its half-pregnant approach. Urban Meyer's dad was right back in 2004, unfortunately.

 

[impossibilityofreason1]

What did Urban Meyers Dad say in 2004?

 

[mbd11]

I know a lot of people are defending Kizer based on his stats today, but look at the big picture....

He sailed a ball way over the head of Kevin Stepherson on a wide open, surefire, touchdown. Easy points left off the board because of a terrible throw. On the crossing pattern to Stepherson he tossed it behind him, forcing the kid to make a great catch that would have been a much more successful play had it been on time and accurate. He then throws to high fastballs way over the head of his intended targets, in the red zone, on the most important series of the game. The ball to Hunter was terrible as well and would have been a touchdown had it just been thrown on a rope in the huge window. Even some of his short passes on hitches and screens forced receivers to leave their feet to catch the ball, totally screwing up their momentum and timing. Yeah he was 19-27, but about 5 of those incompletions were terrible throws, and 2 of them were surefire touchdowns, while another two would have put ND in position to score a touchdown on the final drive. and on top of that of the 19 he completed, several were poorly thrown balls in which his receivers bailed him out, and worse yet, he missed a number of wide open receivers in the middle of the field, that would have been big chunk plays.

I know it sounds like I'm being hard on the kid, but he really wasn't sharp today. When you have young receivers and you're a veteran quarterback, you need to help them out, not make their job harder. I thought Notre Dame left some really important points on the board today, and that was on Kizer... That Navy secondary was terrible. Like Syracuse terrible.

As for the defense. I don't know what more ND could ask of them. They stuffed Navy on 4th down in the first half and held them to 14 points at halftime. In the 2nd half they manned up again and forced a key punt, only to have special teams screw thme again. They were gassed by that point and it was inevitable that Navy was going To score after the penalty gave them 4th and 1... Yes the scoreboard says the hey surrendered 28 points, but only 21 of them were actually on the hey he defense and that is a fine effort vs Navy.... Also, ND possessions weren't just limited because of Navy's long drives. Kizer's failure to connect on some easy, big chunk plays and scores, milked the clock (ND had the edge in time of possession in the first half) and cost ND the opportunity to have more time and extra possesssions. The same is true of the penalty on the special teams, which essentially cost ND a possession. The Irish should have had 8 or 9 possessions based solely on factors that have nothing to do with the defense. A combination of Kelly, Kizer and Special Teams limited ND's possessions by probably 33%.

For those people blaming the defense, would have you bet on an ND win of I told you they would hold a good Navy offense to 28 points?.. I would have put money down on that (and subsequently lost it). I had ND at roughly 8 possessions and at least 34 points in this game.

What a way to spin it! "Hold a good Navy offense to 28 points?" But let's look at it a little closer. Not counting the end of the half, Navy had 6 possessions all game. We only stopped them once. They had 4 touchdowns (long, time-consuming drives) and one drive to run out the clock at the end, that went over 7 minutes. They had 320 yards rushing on 56 carries (5.7 ypc). They went 8-13 on 3rd downs and 4-5 on 4th downs. Bottom line: our defense couldn't stop them!!

Kizer wasn't great, but normally when you score on 5/6 possessions (3 TDs/2 FGs), you should be in pretty good shape to win a game.

 

[IrishInOntario]

Herb, Diehard - I'm not excusing Kelly for this disaster of a season. It's a better looking 2007. But I strongly believe the administration needs to change its half-pregnant approach. Urban Meyer's dad was right back in 2004, unfortunately.

I've been hard on the administration as well, but let's face it, some things aren't going to change so what ND needs is coach whose style is in line with what is available to him, rather than a coach who we're constantly excusing for not getting enough help from the administration. I love spread offenses and pressure defenses but they're not Notre Dame's key to success, IMO.

Brian Kelly has battled to get as much leeway from the administration as possible and they've budged in some ways. I don't see them giving in much more than they have... The next coach needs to focus the culture of the program and how that manifests itself from the weight room, to the practice field, to game day. Their problem isn't talent. Their problem is culture, mental toughness and confidence.

 

[NDHHI]

I was 2 rows up from ND sideline and made point to observe BK ... as soon as he was aware that it was a TV timeout his midget ass was passing up and down the sidelines screaming at players/coaches. F this F u, arms crossed the entire game. There was no encouragement. Kizer looked even worse in person. His reads and throws were awful. This train wreck is on cruise control

 

[DieHard_Irish]

What a way to spin it! "Hold a good Navy offense to 28 points?" But let's look at it a little closer. Not counting the end of the half, Navy had 6 possessions all game. We only stopped them once. They had 4 touchdowns (long, time-consuming drives) and one drive to run out the clock at the end, that went over 7 minutes. They had 320 yards rushing on 56 carries (5.7 ypc). They went 8-13 on 3rd downs and 4-5 on 4th downs. Bottom line: our defense couldn't stop them!!

Kizer wasn't great, but normally when you score on 5/6 possessions (3 TDs/2 FGs), you should be in pretty good shape to win a game.

The defense was the defense this year. They stopped them twice. 12 men on the field was critical. But the offense lost the game. Both FG drives should have been touchdowns. Kizer was terrible, and he's been trending down for weeks. It's pretty obvious.

 

[DieHard_Irish]

I've been hard on the administration as well, but let's face it, some things aren't going to change so what ND needs is coach whose style is in line with what is available to him, rather than a coach who we're constantly excusing for not getting enough help from the administration. I love spread offenses and pressure defenses but they're not Notre Dame's key to success, IMO.

Brian Kelly has battled to get as much leeway from the administration as possible and they've budged in some ways. I don't see them giving in much more than they have... The next coach needs to focus the culture of the program and how that manifests itself from the weight room, to the practice field, to game day. Their problem isn't talent. Their problem is culture, mental toughness and confidence.

This I totally agree with. We have plenty of talent, but this spread offense, finesse football is not what will win at ND.

 

[mbd11]

The defense was the defense this year. They stopped them twice. 12 men on the field was critical. But the offense lost the game. Both FG drives should have been touchdowns. Kizer was terrible, and he's been trending down for weeks. It's pretty obvious.

Navy's tough to stop; they had scored over 40 three straight games before this. But I still think your defense needs to do better than stopping them once in 6 possessions all game. The 2nd stop, they got the ball back and made it, so it doesn't count as a stop, unfortunately.

 

[Bumpdaddy]

I know a lot of people are defending Kizer based on his stats today, but look at the big picture....

He sailed a ball way over the head of Kevin Stepherson on a wide open, surefire, touchdown. Easy points left off the board because of a terrible throw. On the crossing pattern to Stepherson he tossed it behind him, forcing the kid to make a great catch that would have been a much more successful play had it been on time and accurate. He then throws to high fastballs way over the head of his intended targets, in the red zone, on the most important series of the game. The ball to Hunter was terrible as well and would have been a touchdown had it just been thrown on a rope in the huge window. Even some of his short passes on hitches and screens forced receivers to leave their feet to catch the ball, totally screwing up their momentum and timing. Yeah he was 19-27, but about 5 of those incompletions were terrible throws, and 2 of them were surefire touchdowns, while another two would have put ND in position to score a touchdown on the final drive. and on top of that of the 19 he completed, several were poorly thrown balls in which his receivers bailed him out, and worse yet, he missed a number of wide open receivers in the middle of the field, that would have been big chunk plays.

I know it sounds like I'm being hard on the kid, but he really wasn't sharp today. When you have young receivers and you're a veteran quarterback, you need to help them out, not make their job harder. I thought Notre Dame left some really important points on the board today, and that was on Kizer... That Navy secondary was terrible. Like Syracuse terrible.

As for the defense. I don't know what more ND could ask of them. They stuffed Navy on 4th down in the first half and held them to 14 points at halftime. In the 2nd half they manned up again and forced a key punt, only to have special teams screw thme again. They were gassed by that point and it was inevitable that Navy was going To score after the penalty gave them 4th and 1... Yes the scoreboard says the hey surrendered 28 points, but only 21 of them were actually on the hey he defense and that is a fine effort vs Navy.... Also, ND possessions weren't just limited because of Navy's long drives. Kizer's failure to connect on some easy, big chunk plays and scores, milked the clock (ND had the edge in time of possession in the first half) and cost ND the opportunity to have more time and extra possesssions. The same is true of the penalty on the special teams, which essentially cost ND a possession. The Irish should have had 8 or 9 possessions based solely on factors that have nothing to do with the defense. A combination of Kelly, Kizer and Special Teams limited ND's possessions by probably 33%.

For those people blaming the defense, would have you bet on an ND win of I told you they would hold a good Navy offense to 28 points?.. I would have put money down on that (and subsequently lost it). I had ND at roughly 8 possessions and at least 34 points in this game.

You are doing more than being hard on Kizer. You are overemphasizing his mistakes by ignoring the good things he did. Yes, his mistakes should be noted and the criticism should be sharp but beyond the really bad throws he made he also made some really good throws and he made some great decisions on the read option. He picked up key first downs on his own.

Your point about our offense also limiting the number of possessions we had, that's true, but it doesn't negate the fact that our defense could not stop Navy's offense except on 2 occasions, one of which was nullified. If our offense had been more efficient and had scored quicker it just means our defense would have had to go out on the field sooner which means they likely would have gotten tired sooner. Also, quicker scores for our offense also means more possessions for Navy's offense. Maybe both teams could have scored more points if our offense had been more efficient but there was nothing I saw in this game that led me to believe our D would have stopped Navy more often if our offense had simply scored more quickly.

 

[Java65]

It seems like there are fewer and fewer ND fans who care. More people were on the message boards back in the day when Willingham and Weis were stinking up the joint. There doesn't seem to be as many people who give a damn nowadays.

Yep, went hiking instead. It was a beautiful autumn day and I honestly had no desire at all to watch that game. My lack of interest wasn't because I thought they would lose, it was just... well, I just didn't care if they won or lost. As IIO says, Kelly will be around next season, he'll probably win 8 regular season games but he won't win more than 9. Ho, hum, who cares.

 

[Telx1]

IIO, I usually agree with most, but not all of your points. I think you hit 100% today. I thought going in that Navy would score at least 28, but that we would score in the low forties. The defense played well enough to win, but the offense didn't, and you have to look at Kizer for his poor throws to wide open receivers and for missing so many open receivers with his tunnel vision. The ST play cost us the game, but it shouldn't have come down to this. Love was beyond impressive. Kelly should do himself and the university a favor and take a break from the sidelines and get a tv jig. I watch Wisconsin and Michigan play with confidence and disciplined aggression, and ND's play is passive by comparison. Settling for the FG was incredibly passive for a team with our record playing a time eating ball control offense that we had trouble stopping all day. A passive coach who lacks confidence in his offense breeds a passive team.