The Anthem

[tommika]

Kneeling,sitting,standing etc ad infinitum -
A few idle thoughts.

Familiarity breeds contempt,sort of.
Baseball--I would like to see the Anthem played on opening day, at the All Star game,the first game of the World Series at each team field.

Football first home game of the year at each team.
At the Championship game.

Basketball-ditto,plus the All Star game.

All other sports,likewise.

The Anthem to be played,preferably by a military band, as it was written,no more "look at me" warbling,screaming,yelling ,singing for an eternity.

The same idea applies to the Pledge of Allegiance, doing it every day leads to a mindless,unthinking repetition.

 

[NotreDomer1]

Not a Trump guy, but I'd like to see all athletes kneeling being blacklisted. Keep your activism for your own time. The only conversation kneeling has actually created is about Anthem etiquette.

Signed: Always a Marine

 

[B_Agate]

They need to get rid of anthems at sporting events (that don't involve a national team), that would solve the problem. And even better, it would stop people from butchering the national anthem in order to get attention. The national anthem has music, not just words, and singing your 'interpretation' of it when the purpose is to be patriotic is disrespectful. If I was a professional athlete I'd probably wear earplugs just to prevent myself from screaming at the singer to do it right.

That said, neither the anthem or the flag (or any other symbol of the country for that matter) appear in the Constitution. But freedom of speech and freedom of assembly to petition for a redress of greivences are in the 1st amendment. Peaceful protest is just about the most american act one can commit. And I, for one, am far more interested in our country's principles than its symbols. So while I don't agree with the protesting players' actions, I support their right to take them.

Now if everyone else in the country would just stop taking offense whenever someone does something they disagree with...

 

[Bodizephax]

You left wingers weren't complaining about the National anthem after 911. Many fine young Americans--dems and repubs have given their lives for America. It is only right to honor them before every sporting event.

 

[1Redrum]

The national Anthem that is sung is not even the whole thing. Complete lyrics below.

O say can you see, by the dawn's early light,
What so proudly we hailed at the twilight's last gleaming,
Whose broad stripes and bright stars through the perilous fight,
O'er the ramparts we watched, were so gallantly streaming?
And the rockets' red glare, the bombs bursting in air,
Gave proof through the night that our flag was still there;
O say does that star-spangled banner yet wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave?

On the shore dimly seen through the mists of the deep,
Where the foe's haughty host in dread silence reposes,
What is that which the breeze, o'er the towering steep,
As it fitfully blows, half conceals, half discloses?
Now it catches the gleam of the morning's first beam,
In full glory reflected now shines in the stream:
'Tis the star-spangled banner, O long may it wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave.

And where is that band who so vauntingly swore
That the havoc of war and the battle's confusion,
A home and a country, should leave us no more?
Their blood has washed out their foul footsteps' pollution.
No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight, or the gloom of the grave:
And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave,
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave.

O thus be it ever, when freemen shall stand
Between their loved homes and the war's desolation.
Blest with vict'ry and peace, may the Heav'n rescued land
Praise the Power that hath made and preserved us a nation!
Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just,
And this be our motto: 'In God is our trust.'
And the star-spangled banner in triumph shall wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave![26]

 

[hayaka]

I can see why that third verse isn't used. It seems to be celebrating the death of slaves, probably those who fought for the British in exchange for their freedom.

 

[IRISHJD98]

I don't care about what the NFL guys do, but maybe we should start playing and singing the Battle Hymn of the Republic before games.

 

[Bodizephax]

I don't care about what the NFL guys do, but maybe we should start playing and singing the Battle Hymn of the Republic before games.

I do ! Before every Irish game ! No song gets me more fired up than the battle hymn !

*** I get your genius IrishDJ ! Both the North and South soldiers sang it during the civil war ! Maybe Under the Domers could get together and sing a chorus together !

 

[twalsh]

Now if everyone else in the country would just stop taking offense whenever someone does something they disagree with...

That'd be nice, but that's not the world in which we now live. Our young people are being encouraged to be offended by so many in our education system, and in other influences they have growing up. We're not supposed to "suck it up", "tough it out", "get thicker skin" or any of those other cliches we all heard from parents, coaches, teachers et al growing up. It used to be, "when the going gets tough, the tough get going", which was an urging for people to be tough mentally. Now when the going gets tough many people fall to pieces, and, in a ironic and kind of perverted way, are celebrated for it.

And I hate to say it, but it seems society is adjusting to the self described "victims", not vice versa. Don't get me wrong, I abhor bullying and any kind of mental or physical abuse, especially toward someone who is obviously weaker. But the pendulum has swung so far that just about anyone who wants to can conjure up a way that they are a victim of something or someone.

 

[SiberianKnightmare]

I'm not getting suckered into all this fighting. The NFL didn't even have players on the field until 2009 when they started getting paid by the government for the purposes related to marketing military recruitment.

Stay in the locker room until it's time to play the game. I came to watch football, not argue politics.

 

[echowaker]

haven t been to a college game in quite some time. are players on the field when the anthem is played ? when I played, sometimes we were other times no.

 

[SiberianKnightmare]

I don't know, but I don't think they are. If they were, they'd be copy catting by now.

 

[twalsh]

haven t been to a college game in quite some time. are players on the field when the anthem is played ? when I played, sometimes we were other times no.

They are not on the field for the anthem at ND.

 

[NyyorkerND]

Not about disrespect to the flag or verterans it has nothing to do with it. It's about trying to get people to listen. Simple as that and if you believe other wise you're not listening.

What happens today is most people say I don't see it, so it doesn't exist and that's just idiotic. It's a part of our (America's) past and present.

I dislike politics but I dislike misrepresentation of social issues even more.

 

[SiberianKnightmare]

Exactly. It's misrepresenting the intent in order to make the dissenter appear as a villain.

 

[SiberianKnightmare]

Dang it. I got sucked in!

 

[NCDomer]

Not about disrespect to the flag or verterans it has nothing to do with it. It's about trying to get people to listen. Simple as that and if you believe other wise you're not listening.

What happens today is most people say I don't see it, so it doesn't exist and that's just idiotic. It's a part of our (America's) past and present.

I dislike politics but I dislike misrepresentation of social issues even more.

You can say it's not about disrespecting the flag or our country but when you are taught all your life that you are supposed to stand for the anthem, with your hand over your heart and with pride to show respect for flag and country then yeah, disrespect is exactly what it is.

 

[echowaker]

You can say it's not about disrespecting the flag or our country but when you are taught all your life that you are supposed to stand for the anthem, with your hand over your heart and with pride to show respect for flag and country then yeah, disrespect is exactly what it is.

again, i have a much bigger issue with the way folks in the stands behave than a player kneeling silently with his head bowed. that doesn't bother me much. sitting is another matter.

 

[NyyorkerND]

You can say it's not about disrespecting the flag or our country but when you are taught all your life that you are supposed to stand for the anthem, with your hand over your heart and with pride to show respect for flag and country then yeah, disrespect is exactly what it is.

Domer we can agree to disagree, but what is trying to be accomplished here is for people to ask why are they doing this? Not just say stop doing x and y.

Simply get the conversation started, not argue or disagree wether it's right or wrong, that's not the point.

 

[twalsh]

Not about disrespect to the flag or verterans it has nothing to do with it. It's about trying to get people to listen. Simple as that and if you believe other wise you're not listening.

What happens today is most people say I don't see it, so it doesn't exist and that's just idiotic. It's a part of our (America's) past and present.

I dislike politics but I dislike misrepresentation of social issues even more.

With all due respect, who pronounced you the authority on this? And gave you the key to knowing what other people are thinking?

 

[NyyorkerND]

With all due respect, who pronounced you the authority on this? And gave you the key to knowing what other people are thinking?

Not the authority, just took the time to do research and not go off the eye test.

 

[NCDomer]

Domer we can agree to disagree, but what is trying to be accomplished here is for people to ask why are they doing this? Not just say stop doing x and y.

Simply get the conversation started, not argue or disagree wether it's right or wrong, that's not the point.

That's the ironic part. The method of delivery of the message is now outweighing the message itself. People are starting to not care what their issues are now. They are disrespecting an honored tradition and pissing people off instead of getting people to listen. Start a campaign to fight XYZ and have the players get behind that and out in the community to deliver the message. There are plenty of other ways to raise awareness as well. Offending 50-70% of the paying customers isn't one of them.

 

[echowaker]

That's the ironic part. The method of delivery of the message is now outweighing the message itself. People are starting to not care what their issues are now. They are disrespecting an honored tradition and pissing people off instead of getting people to listen. Start a campaign to fight XYZ and have the players get behind that and out in the community to deliver the message. There are plenty of other ways to raise awareness as well. Offending 50-70% of the paying customers isn't one of them.

the kneeling doesn't offend me one bit. sitting does as does the folks in the stands talking, sipping their beer or looking at their phones when the anthem is played.

 

[NCDomer]

the kneeling doesn't offend me one bit. sitting does as does the folks in the stands talking, sipping their beer or looking at their phones when the anthem is played.

The kneeling offends me as well as those turds in the stands that show no respect for a time honored tradition. There are always a few around I know.

 

[twalsh]

Not the authority, just took the time to do research and not go off the eye test.

OK. If the eye test says one thing, and the stated intent says another, which of those typically overwhelms the other? And I am implying that we are not exactly a society chock full of deep thinkers.

 

[NyyorkerND]

That's the ironic part. The method of delivery of the message is now outweighing the message itself. People are starting to not care what their issues are now. They are disrespecting an honored tradition and pissing people off instead of getting people to listen. Start a campaign to fight XYZ and have the players get behind that and out in the community to deliver the message. There are plenty of other ways to raise awareness as well. Offending 50-70% of the paying customers isn't one of them.

Domer ask yourself this question, if what is being done on national TV wasn't being done would you or I be chatting about it on a message board or anyone else?

We both know the answer to that and that's why it's being done. The audience is there.

 

[NCDomer]

Domer ask yourself this question, if what is being done on national TV wasn't being done would you or I be chatting about it on a message board or anyone else?

We both know the answer to that and that's why it's being done. The audience is there.

We are talking but what are we talking about? Answer - It's not their message. I guess if your happy enough with making a scene then mission accomplished but wouldn't you want the focus to be on the reason it all started. We are not there anymore.

Also since you seem to be on the other side of this, what is the end result? What makes the anthem protests stop? Seems to me there is no ending to this other than a rule change either saying you must stand or just keep all teams off the field till kickoff.

 

[NyyorkerND]

We are talking but what are we talking about? Answer - It's not their message. I guess if your happy enough with making a scene then mission accomplished but wouldn't you want the focus to be on the reason it all started. We are not there anymore.

Also since you seem to be on the other side of this, what is the end result? What makes the anthem protests stop? Seems to me there is no ending to this other than a rule change either saying you must stand or just keep all teams off the field till kickoff.

Domer I don't want to tell you what it's about, if you don't know, what we all should do is find out on our own what it's about. An both be informed.

Then we can all have an intelligent discussion and at that point we can have different or similar views.

I think generally people have a hard time saying simply "I don't care." I don't know if that's where you stand but that is a choice that you can make. America is a free country and great that way.

No one can tell you what to care about.

 

[NCDomer]

Domer I don't want to tell you what it's about, if you don't know, what we all should do is find out on our own what it's about. An both be informed.

Then we can all have an intelligent discussion and at that point we can have different or similar views.

I think generally people have a hard time saying simply "I don't care." I don't know if that's where you stand but that is a choice that you can make. America is a free country and great that way.

No one can tell you what to care about.

LOL. You can't answer my question because you don't have an answer. I know why they are protesting and I thought we were having an intelligent conversation. I will come out and say that where the protesters see a problem I don't see one but I wouldn't go as far as to say I don't care. I believe we should all care about each other but that doesn't mean we have to agree on each other's every issue.

Back to my question. What is the end game? What has to happen so that everyone on the football field protesting stops protesting America's anthem? If you can't answer that then just say so.

P.S. Don't try to play me for a bum with your "If you don't know we should find out and come back" BS. Just get it out there so we can as you say "Have an intelligent conversation".

 

[twalsh]

Domer I don't want to tell you what it's about, if you don't know, what we all should do is find out on our own what it's about. An both be informed.

Then we can all have an intelligent discussion and at that point we can have different or similar views.

I think generally people have a hard time saying simply "I don't care." I don't know if that's where you stand but that is a choice that you can make. America is a free country and great that way.

No one can tell you what to care about.

I am going to risk speaking for NCDomer, and re-ask the same question in a different fashion. Assuming that this exercise is to bring attention to societal inequities plaguing minorities, is there realistically any end game to that? The civil rights movement is now roughly 50 years old, and though there have been fits and starts along the way, progress has been pretty steady. Each generation is generally more aracial and aethnic than the previous one, and there seems to be no reason why that trend should change. We have many hispanics in state, local and federal government positions, including many elected ones, and we obviously just had a black President elected while being voted for by in excess of 50 million non-black Americans, and we have minorities in senior and executive management at just about every major US corporation. None of those things seemed even possible in the early and mid 1960s. So we have come light years in 50 years. But what radical change do the protesters think is going to take place in the short term to satisfy them? Protests are generally not infinite, they are aimed at accomplishing something or changing something, at which time there is no longer a need for the protest. What is the end game?

 

[NyyorkerND]

LOL. You can't answer my question because you don't have an answer. I know why they are protesting and I thought we were having an intelligent conversation. I will come out and say that where the protesters see a problem I don't see one but I wouldn't go as far as to say I don't care. I believe we should all care about each other but that doesn't mean we have to agree on each other's every issue.

Back to my question. What is the end game? What has to happen so that everyone on the football field protesting stops protesting America's anthem? If you can't answer that then just say so.

P.S. Don't try to play me for a bum with your "If you don't know we should find out and come back" BS. Just get it out there so we can as you say "Have an intelligent conversation".

Go back and look at my previous post. On this same chain. I've already said my part. Have a good day.

An I don't take you for a bum, I don't even know you.

 

[Irish Duck]

Not a Trump guy, but I'd like to see all athletes kneeling being blacklisted. Keep your activism for your own time. The only conversation kneeling has actually created is about Anthem etiquette.

Signed: Always a Marine

If you're not aware of the conversation related to the kneeling, you haven't been listening very carefully. I fully support anyone who objects to standing or singing the National Anthem. it is a silly ritual. For similar reasons, I never recite the pledge of allegiance. I will certainly pledge my allegiance to the country but not to a piece of cloth. I recognize it is a symbol but I'm not big on pledging allegiance to a symbol.

 

[NCDomer]

I am going to risk speaking for NCDomer, and re-ask the same question in a different fashion. Assuming that this exercise is to bring attention to societal inequities plaguing minorities, is there realistically any end game to that? The civil rights movement is now roughly 50 years old, and though there have been fits and starts along the way, progress has been pretty steady. Each generation is generally more aracial and aethnic than the previous one, and there seems to be no reason why that trend should change. We have many hispanics in state, local and federal government positions, including many elected ones, and we obviously just had a black President elected while being voted for by in excess of 50 million non-black Americans, and we have minorities in senior and executive management at just about every major US corporation. None of those things seemed even possible in the early and mid 1960s. So we have come light years in 50 years. But what radical change do the protesters think is going to take place in the short term to satisfy them? Protests are generally not infinite, they are aimed at accomplishing something or changing something, at which time there is no longer a need for the protest. What is the end game?

You spoke for me quite well. I have loved football all my life. I am a avid Irish and Steelers fan. I just hate to see this social justice crap oozing into the sport I have loved for so many years. It might be the time but it's not the place if you ask me.

See the thing is the people supporting the protests can't answer the end game question because they know there isn't one. It's this protest today and another tomorrow. Nothing will ever be good enough.

 

[NotreDomer1]

If you're not aware of the conversation related to the kneeling, you haven't been listening very carefully. I fully support anyone who objects to standing or singing the National Anthem. it is a silly ritual. For similar reasons, I never recite the pledge of allegiance. I will certainly pledge my allegiance to the country but not to a piece of cloth. I recognize it is a symbol but I'm not big on pledging allegiance to a symbol.

Please reread my post. It simply states the actual conversation that kneeling has created was different than what it was intended. As for your opinion.... I can forgive you if you keep your fat ass seated because I know it's difficult to find a crane to get you righted. Standing up is obviously too difficult for you. So much so that you're on the sit bandwagon not because of these guys, but because it fits your self serving agenda. We must be the only country in the world who asks people to stand for the anthem after all. Honoring the country and everything good it stands for AND the sacrifices of those who came before you is obviously an unworthy reason for your three minutes of time.

 

[Irish Duck]

Please reread my post. It simply states the actual conversation that kneeling has created was different than what it was intended. As for your opinion.... I can forgive you if you keep your fat ass seated because I know it's difficult to find a crane to get you righted. Standing up is obviously too difficult for you. So much so that you're on the sit bandwagon not because of these guys, but because it fits your self serving agenda. We must be the only country in the world who asks people to stand for the anthem after all. Honoring the country and everything good it stands for AND the sacrifices of those who came before you is obviously an unworthy reason for your three minutes of time.

NotreDomer1, with all due respect, you need to get your head out of your ass. Its not a question of whether it is difficult to stand up for an anthem. It is whether or not I, as well as others, choose to stand up. Honoring a country and everything good it stands for is pointless unless, and until, you are able to recognize everything bad about this country. There is a lot that is good and a lot that is bad. The fact that we are still battling racism and that our Dear Leader takes days before he will recognize that neo-Nazis and white supremacists are bad people is both bad and an embarrassment. The fact that we still don't have affordable healthcare for all people is both bad and an embarrassment. The fact that our political system is so corrupt is bad. The fact that Congress fails or refuses to actually acknowledge fiscal responsibility is bad. The fact that we spend so much on the military while our bridges are crumbling and we have other serious infrastructure issues is bad. The fact that we are even talking about building a wall rather than spending money to actually help the poor and middle-class is bad. Why would I want to get my fat ass out of my seat to honor those issues?

 

[hornick]

They need to get rid of anthems at sporting events (that don't involve a national team), that would solve the problem. And even better, it would stop people from butchering the national anthem in order to get attention. The national anthem has music, not just words, and singing your 'interpretation' of it when the purpose is to be patriotic is disrespectful. If I was a professional athlete I'd probably wear earplugs just to prevent myself from screaming at the singer to do it right.

That said, neither the anthem or the flag (or any other symbol of the country for that matter) appear in the Constitution. But freedom of speech and freedom of assembly to petition for a redress of greivences are in the 1st amendment. Peaceful protest is just about the most american act one can commit. And I, for one, am far more interested in our country's principles than its symbols. So while I don't agree with the protesting players' actions, I support their right to take them.

Now if everyone else in the country would just stop taking offense whenever someone does something they disagree with...

Well said, thank you.

 

[NotreDomer1]

NotreDomer1, with all due respect, you need to get your head out of your ass. Its not a question of whether it is difficult to stand up for an anthem. It is whether or not I, as well as others, choose to stand up. Honoring a country and everything good it stands for is pointless unless, and until, you are able to recognize everything bad about this country. There is a lot that is good and a lot that is bad. The fact that we are still battling racism and that our Dear Leader takes days before he will recognize that neo-Nazis and white supremacists are bad people is both bad and an embarrassment. The fact that we still don't have affordable healthcare for all people is both bad and an embarrassment. The fact that our political system is so corrupt is bad. The fact that Congress fails or refuses to actually acknowledge fiscal responsibility is bad. The fact that we spend so much on the military while our bridges are crumbling and we have other serious infrastructure issues is bad. The fact that we are even talking about building a wall rather than spending money to actually help the poor and middle-class is bad. Why would I want to get my fat ass out of my seat to honor those issues?

So it's my fault that your reasoning started out with it being a "silly ritual to a piece of cloth" into that tirade that you just posted? Maybe your side should be more understanding that my side views your protests as complete and utter disrespect to our country and those who've served. I don't have to piss in your dad's coffin to get you to start a conversation with me, do I? Pick a different venue for your protest.

 

[Pennick44]

Not about disrespect to the flag or verterans it has nothing to do with it. It's about trying to get people to listen. Simple as that and if you believe other wise you're not listening.

What happens today is most people say I don't see it, so it doesn't exist and that's just idiotic. It's a part of our (America's) past and present.

I dislike politics but I dislike misrepresentation of social issues even more.

Find another way. It is disrespectful. They might need to use their brains if they are capable of doing that. The majority of people believe it is wrong.

 

[echowaker]

Find another way. It is disrespectful. They might need to use their brains if they are capable of doing that. The majority of people believe it is wrong.

The majority of people think a lot of things should be a certain way and they aren t.

 

[Pennick44]

NotreDomer1, with all due respect, you need to get your head out of your ass. Its not a question of whether it is difficult to stand up for an anthem. It is whether or not I, as well as others, choose to stand up. Honoring a country and everything good it stands for is pointless unless, and until, you are able to recognize everything bad about this country. There is a lot that is good and a lot that is bad. The fact that we are still battling racism and that our Dear Leader takes days before he will recognize that neo-Nazis and white supremacists are bad people is both bad and an embarrassment. The fact that we still don't have affordable healthcare for all people is both bad and an embarrassment. The fact that our political system is so corrupt is bad. The fact that Congress fails or refuses to actually acknowledge fiscal responsibility is bad. The fact that we spend so much on the military while our bridges are crumbling and we have other serious infrastructure issues is bad. The fact that we are even talking about building a wall rather than spending money to actually help the poor and middle-class is bad. Why would I want to get my fat ass out of my seat to honor those issues?

Wow. Thank God for Donald Trump. He got elected because of dopes like you.