Start Buchner

[NotreDame du Lac]

He has the most upside. Just let him play, if he has a bad year, oh well. He will be ready next season. It’s not like we have a Trevor Lawrence coming in next year. The kid needs a year of experience. He didn’t even play his senior year and he had the most big plays of any of the qbs in the spring game. I could see letting Coan play in the opener, but if Buchner isn’t starting or at least getting reps by game 2 we are setting ourselves up for an ass pounding against Ohio state in next seasons opener. If Tommy Rees can throw for 334 yards and 4 touchdowns in his first start as a freshman, then surely Buchner should be able to do half as well.

 

[hoopsstar12]

The other teams will put a lot of pressure on the new O line and the new QB. It will all come down to who handles the pressure and who can put the ball in the end zone with zero or low turnovers.

 

[Golson5]

He has the most upside. Just let him play, if he has a bad year, oh well. He will be ready next season. It’s not like we have a Trevor Lawrence coming in next year. The kid needs a year of experience. He didn’t even play his senior year and he had the most big plays of any of the qbs in the spring game. I could see letting Coan play in the opener, but if Buchner isn’t starting or at least getting reps by game 2 we are setting ourselves up for an ass pounding against Ohio state in next seasons opener. If Tommy Rees can throw for 334 yards and 4 touchdowns in his first start as a freshman, then surely Buchner should be able to do half as well.

No

 

[scubastevefl]

I don’t have an objection to that.

 

[THUNDERSTRUCK111]

The key to Buchner being ready to fly in 2022 is getting him into games early this year and letting him attack. Jmo

 

[mirer03]

I honestly don't have an objection here. He needs to play at least part time this year. He hasn't played a game in forever. He needs it and we will be better for it long term

 

[Pennick4]

He has the most upside. Just let him play, if he has a bad year, oh well. He will be ready next season. It’s not like we have a Trevor Lawrence coming in next year. The kid needs a year of experience. He didn’t even play his senior year and he had the most big plays of any of the qbs in the spring game. I could see letting Coan play in the opener, but if Buchner isn’t starting or at least getting reps by game 2 we are setting ourselves up for an ass pounding against Ohio state in next seasons opener. If Tommy Rees can throw for 334 yards and 4 touchdowns in his first start as a freshman, then surely Buchner should be able to do half as well.

Nope

 

[Golson5]

He should play, no doubt. But not to just start him and possibly lose games. Let him in on certain spots. Play the entire 2nd half of every blowout type game. And play more as the season progresses

 

[Telx1]

Kelly and staff owe it to the players to play Those that give us the best chance of winning each and every game; not to use a season as preparation for the following season. That said, I think Kelly does a really poor job giving meaningful playing time to his back up QB When ND is dominating the opponent. Frankly, I want Coan to come in and play at a high level, and I want Buchner to beat him out before seasons end. At a minimum, I’d like to see Buchner earn the #2 QBs designation from Pyne, and get meaningful game time as Coan leads us to a great season. Right now, Buchner is #3 and talk of him starting is the stuff of fan fantasy.

 

[savvyandsassier]

He has the most upside. Just let him play, if he has a bad year, oh well. He will be ready next season. It’s not like we have a Trevor Lawrence coming in next year. The kid needs a year of experience. He didn’t even play his senior year and he had the most big plays of any of the qbs in the spring game. I could see letting Coan play in the opener, but if Buchner isn’t starting or at least getting reps by game 2 we are setting ourselves up for an ass pounding against Ohio state in next seasons opener. If Tommy Rees can throw for 334 yards and 4 touchdowns in his first start as a freshman, then surely Buchner should be able to do half as well.

You could see Coan maybe starting the first game, but otherwise Buchner better be starting ASAP? By Week 2 is what you're saying? Isn't that what happened with Jimmy Clausen, the greatest HS QB of all time?

In fact, this is not a serious post. You're just trying to stir the pot. Buchner better be starting by Week 2..... Okay, we'll get right on that.....

 

[NotreDame du Lac]

Not necessarily

You could see Coan maybe starting the first game, but otherwise Buchner better be starting ASAP? By Week 2 is what you're saying? Isn't that what happened with Jimmy Clausen, the greatest HS QB of all time?

In fact, this is not a serious post. You're just trying to stir the pot. Buchner better be starting by Week 2..... Okay, we'll get right on that.....

Not necessarily starting, but getting meaningful snaps. If he isn't getting meaningful snaps, we won't have a future. If BK is giving those extra snaps to Pyne or someone else instead of Buchner, we are in big trouble. Coan is not far superior to Buchner. He has more experience, but his arm looks weaker and his athletic ability is far inferior to Buchner (he's a 1 year, mediocre Big 10, fill-in). Coan cannot scramble. Buchner can. Buchner has built his stats with is ability to leave the pocket and get extra yards, something our offense has been built on since BK arrived at ND (sans Tommy Rees). Buchner is not Ian Book, but he is taller, can run, and has a decent arm. Do I think he's Brady Quinn? No. I think we need to keep upgrading, offering kids like Ewers, and bringing in as many 5* guys as we can. But I do think he has the most talent. By fall, he should have his timing down with the receivers and feel more comfortable with the offense as well. Then it's about getting real game experience. The biggest thing BK has lacked in his time at ND is a true future first rounder and game changing quarterback like OSU, OK, Clemson, Bama, Georgia, etc have had.

 

[savvyandsassier]

Not necessarily

Not necessarily starting, but getting meaningful snaps. If he isn't getting meaningful snaps, we won't have a future. If BK is giving those extra snaps to Pyne or someone else instead of Buchner, we are in big trouble. Coan is not far superior to Buchner. He has more experience, but his arm looks weaker and his athletic ability is far inferior to Buchner. Coan cannot scramble. Buchner can. Buchner has built his stats with is ability to leave the pocket and get extra yards, something our offense has been built on since BK arrived at ND (sans Tommy Rees). Buchner is not Ian Book, but he is taller, can run, and has a decent arm.

He might be better than Ian Book, but he isn't going to start next year. Or at least Coan definitely appears plenty good enough to stick with the original plan. And whether it's Pyne, Buchner, Clark, Powlus.... they're probably going to have to wait until 2022.

Buchner probably wouldn't be starting as a true frosh even if he had been a four-year starter in HS. And with Coan looking as good as he does, it just isn't gonna happen. LATE in the season, maybe..... like, by the second to last week not second week. If we're 6-3 or 7-3, and the season's basically over, and Buchner's champing the bit on the sideline. Then they could split time between Buchner and Pyne. Or something like that.

But I'm thinking we're going to make the playoff with Jack Coan.... Or at least be in contention right up until the end!

 

[echowaker]

No player should have playing time handed to them. You have to earn it.

 

[Zorich 88]

He has the most upside. Just let him play, if he has a bad year, oh well. He will be ready next season. It’s not like we have a Trevor Lawrence coming in next year. The kid needs a year of experience. He didn’t even play his senior year and he had the most big plays of any of the qbs in the spring game. I could see letting Coan play in the opener, but if Buchner isn’t starting or at least getting reps by game 2 we are setting ourselves up for an ass pounding against Ohio state in next seasons opener. If Tommy Rees can throw for 334 yards and 4 touchdowns in his first start as a freshman, then surely Buchner should be able to do half as well.

I completely understand what you are saying. However, you have to play the best guy. Right now, Coan is the best guy in the room. You have to be very careful just putting a young guy out there and it goes bad for him. You don’t want him to lose confidence.

Also, Buchner has not separated himself from Pyne. You can’t just hand a player a job because he has more upside. He has to win the job. Buchner has not won the job.

 

[NotreDame du Lac]

I completely understand what you are saying. However, you have to play the best guy. Right now, Coan is the best guy in the room. You have to be very careful just putting a young guy out there and it goes bad for him. You don’t want him to lose confidence.

Also, Buchner has not separated himself from Pyne. You can’t just hand a player a job because he has more upside. He has to win the job. Buchner has not won the job.

I think if Pyne grew 3 inches he’d be the best prospect. His lack of growth killed his vision and arm strength. It’s a shame. Kid was a prodigy before he stopped growing. Saban thought he was the next big recruit. Of course, he'd probably be at Bama if he would've grown more so we probably wouldn't even have him.

 

[Irish Duck]

I don't want to sound like Bodi but I think we've got a really strong team this year. I think the defense will be as good, and likely better, than it was last year. The OLine is going to take some time to mesh but there is great talent there. We have great running backs, a good (and hopefully great) receiving corp, and I think Coan is going to be a very good QB. That makes for a potentially great team.

If we lose a couple of games early, than I'm all for pushing Buchner and preparing for the '22 season but, as of right now, it appears that Coan is the better QB and he gives us the best chance of returning to the playoffs.

 

[savvyandsassier]

I don't want to sound like Bodi but I think we've got a really strong team this year. I think the defense will be as good, and likely better, than it was last year. The OLine is going to take some time to mesh but there is great talent there. We have great running backs, a good (and hopefully great) receiving corp, and I think Coan is going to be a very good QB. That makes for a potentially great team.

If we lose a couple of games early, than I'm all for pushing Buchner and preparing for the '22 season but, as of right now, it appears that Coan is the better QB and he gives us the best chance of returning to the playoffs.

Right, that could happen. And I think it does happen at other schools, understandably. That's what happened with Everett Golson at FSU. He was doing good, not great, and by week 9 or 10 or so, they benched him and decided to get ready for next season and put in whichever returning QBs were still on the roster.

And that probably will happen with us. If we're like, 7-3 or something. 8-2 and we can still get into a top bowl game, and Coan is playing well we probably stay with him all year. But if the overall season is sort of meh... then I suspect we'll see Buchner/Pyne. Unless Coan is playing lights out all season regardless of record then maybe we stay with him.

So there's hope yet for the Buchner worshippers is what I'm saying.

 

[irish4life9999]

Gotta disagree here. First it's a big learning curve and he hasn't even played ball for almost two years. He needs a year in the weight room and learning the system. It's exactly why we bright in Jack.

 

[NotreDame du Lac]

Al

I think if Pyne grew 3 inches he’d be the best prospect. His lack of growth killed his vision and arm strength. It’s a shame. Kid was a prodigy before he stopped growing. Saban thought he was the next big recruit. Of course, he'd probably be at Bama if he would've grown more so we probably wouldn't even have him.

though I still wonder what separates the great short quarterbacks. Russell Wilson is shorter than Pyne. Kyler Murray is shorter than Pyne. Drew Brees is 6’0. Ian Book did a lot at 5’11. If Pyne is as good as Ian Book, he’d no doubt be the best prospect. Unless Buchner ends up being great, but there’s nothing yet to suggest that he will be. It’ll be interesting.

 

[NotreDame du Lac]

Gotta disagree here. First it's a big learning curve and he hasn't even played ball for almost two years. He needs a year in the weight room and learning the system. It's exactly why we bright in Jack.

I do hope the weight room is where he dedicates himself. 1 year can make you a freak with the right diet and determination. Brady Quinn enjoyed lifting. He was known to go to the weight room every single day regardless of practice. He wanted to look good, but it made him an ox in the pocket too.

 

[Golson5]

Al

though I still wonder what separates the great short quarterbacks. Russell Wilson is shorter than Pyne. Kyler Murray is shorter than Pyne. Drew Brees is 6’0. Ian Book did a lot at 5’11. If Pyne is as good as Ian Book, he’d no doubt be the best prospect. Unless Buchner ends up being great, but there’s nothing yet to suggest that he will be. It’ll be interesting.

Wilson and Murray are super athletic and have cannon arms.

Buchner is a better prospect than Book/Pyne. More athletic, stronger arm, a little taller

 

[Golson5]

I do hope the weight room is where he dedicates himself. 1 year can make you a freak with the right diet and determination. Brady Quinn enjoyed lifting. He was known to go to the weight room every single day regardless of practice. He wanted to look good, but it made him an ox in the pocket too.

Quinn eventually got too big for a QB.

 

[savvyandsassier]

Al

though I still wonder what separates the great short quarterbacks. Russell Wilson is shorter than Pyne. Kyler Murray is shorter than Pyne. Drew Brees is 6’0. Ian Book did a lot at 5’11. If Pyne is as good as Ian Book, he’d no doubt be the best prospect. Unless Buchner ends up being great, but there’s nothing yet to suggest that he will be. It’ll be interesting.

Yeah, I don't think Book's 5-11. I think he's a full 6-0. And he's taller than Drew Brees in any case. That's what Saints people are saying at least.

I mean it's not really a big deal to be 5-11 1/2 or 3/4, or to be a full 6-0. But I think that's what he is. A full 6-0 flat. Maybe even 6-0 1/4. I'm 5-11 1/2 in my bare feet. So I don't mind as a big Book fan if he actually isn't quite 6-0, but every official measurement I've seen is 6 foot and change. There might have been one draft website that had him at 5-11 3/4 but that's it.

Just saying....

EDIT TO ADD his official pro day measurements we're 6-0 flat, 211 pounds.

 

[NotreDame du Lac]

Quinn eventually got too big for a QB.

Nah, he just wasn't elite in the NFL. I don't think muscle really hurt him. He weighed the same as all the other 6'3 quarterbacks, and probably carried less weight as he had more muscle than Matthew Stafford, yet he weighed the same. Muscle is very easy to lose, so I'm sure if it was hindering his performance, he could've just eased up on the curls and butt flexers.

Buchner could do a lot for himself as a freshman by adding 20 lbs of muscle to his lean frame, especially in his legs and back. For instance, he is listed at 6'2. Aaron Rodgers is also 6'2. Rodgers weighs 225 and Buchner weighs 200. Rodgers is a frail quarterback and doesn't run the ball. Buchner is more athletic and will be running the ball a lot. He should try and get to at least 225, not fat, but muscle. All of the other 6'2 NFL quarterbacks weight at least 220.

He certainly should spend the vast majority of his energy on running the offense and working on mechanics, but adding thick, solid, mass to his legs, butt, and back can have a huge payoff, especially for a guy that is mobile (less injury, stronger, faster, bigger). If he can add 20lbs to his frame, he could become very difficult to tackle, making him a huge weapon. I've never bought into the theory that muscle slows you down. It just doesn't make sense from a science perspective. Adding fat certainly can slow you down, but theres a reason running backs spend so much time doing squats (they don't slow you down).

 

[irish4life9999]

I do hope the weight room is where he dedicates himself. 1 year can make you a freak with the right diet and determination. Brady Quinn enjoyed lifting. He was known to go to the weight room every single day regardless of practice. He wanted to look good, but it made him an ox in the pocket too.

Ya Brady Quinn put up what 225 like 25 times on pro day? I think he bulked up too much. I guess if they feel he's ready but definitely dont want to throw in the lions den and kill his confidence lol.

 

[NotreDame du Lac]

Ya Brady Quinn put up what 225 like 25 times on pro day? I think he bulked up too much. I guess if they feel he's ready but definitely dont want to throw in the lions den and kill his confidence lol.

I agree, 225 25 times for a quarterback is silly. He should've probably spent that dedication on his quarterbacking, I just don't think it hindered him. You can literally take 6 months off from lifting and I bet that 25 reps would've dropped to 15. Take a year off he'd be 12. I have to imagine if the lifting was hurting his arm, he would've stopped. I just don't think it made a difference for him one way or the other. I'm sure squats helped him. Benching probably did nothing but boost his ego.

 

[Golson5]

Nah, he just wasn't elite in the NFL. I don't think muscle really hurt him. He weighed the same as all the other 6'3 quarterbacks, and probably carried less weight as he had more muscle than Matthew Stafford, yet he weighed the same. Muscle is very easy to lose, so I'm sure if it was hindering his performance, he could've just eased up on the curls and butt flexers.

Buchner could do a lot for himself as a freshman by adding 20 lbs of muscle to his lean frame, especially in his legs and back. For instance, he is listed at 6'2. Aaron Rodgers is also 6'2. Rodgers weighs 225 and Buchner weighs 200. Rodgers is a frail quarterback and doesn't run the ball. Buchner is more athletic and will be running the ball a lot. He should try and get to at least 225, not fat, but muscle. All of the other 6'2 NFL quarterbacks weight at least 220.

He certainly should spend the vast majority of his energy on running the offense and working on mechanics, but adding thick, solid, mass to his legs, butt, and back can have a huge payoff, especially for a guy that is mobile (less injury, stronger, faster, bigger). If he can add 20lbs to his frame, he could become very difficult to tackle, making him a huge weapon. I've never bought into the theory that muscle slows you down. It just doesn't make sense from a science perspective. Adding fat certainly can slow you down, but theres a reason running backs spend so much time doing squats (they don't slow you down).

He was too muscle bound. Lacked fluidity. He became stiff.

No top QBs look like him. He became way too stiff. He didn't need to have a huge chest, arms and shoulders

 

[irish4life9999]

He was too muscle bound. Lacked fluidity. He became stiff.

No top QBs look like him. He became way too stiff. He didn't need to have a huge chest, arms and shoulders

I know when I played tennis at the hs/college level I got too bulked up. Even though it's short twitch muscle it still hampered my mechanics.

 

[ndnd]

He has the most upside. Just let him play, if he has a bad year, oh well. He will be ready next season. It’s not like we have a Trevor Lawrence coming in next year. The kid needs a year of experience. He didn’t even play his senior year and he had the most big plays of any of the qbs in the spring game. I could see letting Coan play in the opener, but if Buchner isn’t starting or at least getting reps by game 2 we are setting ourselves up for an ass pounding against Ohio state in next seasons opener. If Tommy Rees can throw for 334 yards and 4 touchdowns in his first start as a freshman, then surely Buchner should be able to do half as well.

Let the best player start without regard to experience etc . A coach has to be fair to the player who performs at practice . Now if the player does not perform in games then rotate until you find the best fit

 

[Pennick4]

Quinn eventually got too big for a QB.

Huh...

 

[Golson5]

Huh...

Brady Quinn became too muscle bound for the QB position. Lost flexibility and looked stiff.

 

[NDgreatestofalltime!]

You could see Coan maybe starting the first game, but otherwise Buchner better be starting ASAP? By Week 2 is what you're saying? Isn't that what happened with Jimmy Clausen, the greatest HS QB of all time?

In fact, this is not a serious post. You're just trying to stir the pot. Buchner better be starting by Week 2..... Okay, we'll get right on that.....

bro, you have a very strange obsession with Jimmy Clausen. The amount of times you’ve posted about him recently is a bit concerning.

 

[BGI User 1798]

bro, you have a very strange obsession with Jimmy Clausen. The amount of times you’ve posted about him recently is a bit concerning.

Maybe it's jimmy himself.

 

[Telx1]

I don't want to sound like Bodi but I think we've got a really strong team this year. I think the defense will be as good, and likely better, than it was last year. The OLine is going to take some time to mesh but there is great talent there. We have great running backs, a good (and hopefully great) receiving corp, and I think Coan is going to be a very good QB. That makes for a potentially great team.

If we lose a couple of games early, than I'm all for pushing Buchner and preparing for the '22 season but, as of right now, it appears that Coan is the better QB and he gives us the best chance of returning to the playoffs.

What’s wrong with sounding like Bodi? I want to enter every season thinking we will go undefeated and win the NC. Of course it is unlikely, but the possibilities are getting better on nearly an annual basis under Kelly; and we are not dillusional to think this way. Duck, I agree with you: this team could potentially be a GREAT team. With a New QB and new OL and untested receivers and questions about our defensive backs, etc... this team might also stumble out the gate and disappoint. If given the choice between these two scenarios, I’d rather join Bodi and be wildly optimistic until proven otherwise.

 

[BGI User 1596]

bro, you have a very strange obsession with Jimmy Clausen. The amount of times you’ve posted about him recently is a bit concerning.

He has this on his wall!

 

[savvyandsassier]

He has this on his wall!

That's a classic photo. That's Jimmy Clausen in all his glory. That's you guys' hero. Right there, they even got Oaks Christian speedo underwear.

That's what I mean calling him a laughingstock. And that was our starting QB for three of the shittiest years in ND football history. Nuff said....

 

[VTND]

He has the most upside. Just let him play, if he has a bad year, oh well. He will be ready next season. It’s not like we have a Trevor Lawrence coming in next year. The kid needs a year of experience. He didn’t even play his senior year and he had the most big plays of any of the qbs in the spring game. I could see letting Coan play in the opener, but if Buchner isn’t starting or at least getting reps by game 2 we are setting ourselves up for an ass pounding against Ohio state in next seasons opener. If Tommy Rees can throw for 334 yards and 4 touchdowns in his first start as a freshman, then surely Buchner should be able to do half as well.

Spot on. But we know Kelly will start Coan and we will be in the same boat next year.

 

[NotreDame du Lac]

Spot on. But we know Kelly will start Coan and we will be in the same boat next year.

Yeah, I’m not saying Buchner will be good. Odds are, he won’t be. I want the kid in there that’s underrated with a chip on his shoulder. That’s who has the most upside. If it’s Buchner, and he’s the next Aaron Rodgers, play him. If it’s Pyne, and he’s the next Russell Wilson, play him. Coan has already reached his ceiling. He’s a middle of the road Big 10 kid that wouldn’t even start at Wisconsin. He’s not taking us anywhere, but a mediocre season and an almost certain loss against OSU in 2022.

 

[Golson5]

Yeah, I’m not saying Buchner will be good. Odds are, he won’t be. I want the kid in there that’s underrated with a chip on his shoulder. That’s who has the most upside. If it’s Buchner, and he’s the next Aaron Rodgers, play him. If it’s Pyne, and he’s the next Russell Wilson, play him. Coan has already reached his ceiling. He’s a middle of the road Big 10 kid that wouldn’t even start at Wisconsin. He’s not taking us anywhere, but a mediocre season and an almost certain loss against OSU in 2022.

We could win 10 to 12 games with Coan this year and make the playoffs. We're not going to throw away the season to look ahead to next year. There's ways to get Buchner playing time without him starting

 

[TDIrish27]

Or Pyne