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Something To Chew On

Michigan has a very good defense. Full stop. Gary has the measurables that make the NFL drool and Bush has incredible speed and power for a guy that played in the 220s last year and is allegedly closer to 240 this year. All of that being said, the most disruptive guy on that defense last year was Maurice Hurst. He had 5.5 sacks on the inside versus Gary's 6 on the outside. Mo Hurst was a beast and would have been a first round pick but for the heart condition that came out at the combine. Still went in the fifth round. Mike McCray, captain, 5 sacks, 84 tackles was also a strong presence. He is more replaceable than Hurst, but for Bush to take his position it means someone else needs to come in and perform like Bush. Hurst and McCray accounted for nearly 20% of Michigan's defense last year. I simply do not see it that the UM defense will be better than last year. I know, returning this and returning that, but the loss of a 1st round defensive tackle and a strong captain/MLB is difficult to address in 1 year. ND's defense returns 96% of its production from last year. I frankly see ND's defense being the more impactful of the 2. Should be a heckuva game.
McCray was a liability against the better offenses. Loaded teams like PSU would scheme him into defending a wheel route against a RB and he just could not keep up. Brown used him properly to his strengths. But he was a Brady Hoke holdover. I appreciate that he played the best he could and in other defenses he would not have been a liability in pass defense. He was the best outside linebacker last year.

Hurst will be missed. His ability to play NT at 285 even in a 3-4 is uncanny.
 
Running QBs did well vs UM last year with counters. You could flow the RB one direction getting their fast D moving in that direction and have the QB keep going the other way, and it can be done seamless. It wasn't slow footed McCrary, it's never one person.

Now UM could be better and not over play as much. That would result in less QB running production for the offense, but Less TFL on the RB for the defense.
Is that not what young inexperienced defenses do? That is what experience does for you. Though some is by design and it is accepted that there will be some big plays given up.
 
18 Michigan vs 17 UGA
DLine- UM and not really even close
LB- wash, UM has 2 all American types at LB, but UGA had the best defensive player in CFB last year. Wouldn’t fight you if you told me UGA’s was better
Corner- UM and not even a discussion
Safety- UGA
Coordinator- UM not even close

Comparing a 3-4 defense to a 4-3 over defense like this is just foolish.

You have to look at again as an Interior DL, EDGE, ILB, CB, and Safety.

Interior DL - Georgia
EDGE - Michigan
ILB - Georgia
CB - Even
Safety - Georgia

Michigan just doesn’t have the overall talent that Georgia did, despite having solid talent.
 
Michigan should finish 9-3 this year if their offense improves. Everyone thinks their team is just awesome in pre-season
 
We already found out that this was the case in 2017.
We found it out:
v. Michigan State
v. Penn State
v. Wisconsin
v. Ohio State
v. South Carolina

We'll find out whether that OVERRATED defense has improved or not on 9/1/18.

There is simply no debating that a defense like Michigan '17, which got abused and humiliated against EVERY decent opponent it faced....was OVERRATED.

You are delusional. UM gave up 14 points and 250 yards of total offense against MSU, despite the offense turning it over five times. In what world is that getting “abused and humiliated”?
 
You are delusional. UM gave up 14 points and 250 yards of total offense against MSU, despite the offense turning it over five times. In what world is that getting “abused and humiliated”?

In the world where they only played half a game and voetuallly all of the TOs happened in the 2nd half where Michigan State shut down the offense because of the hurricane.

Michigan gave up 14 point and 200+ yards during the 1st half, prior to the monsoon, and thus were on pace to allow ~30 points and ~400 yards AGAIN.

Yet another example of Michigan’s defense getting ABUSED AND HUMILIATED as they always did against Top25 competition.
 
Comparing a 3-4 defense to a 4-3 over defense like this is just foolish.

You have to look at again as an Interior DL, EDGE, ILB, CB, and Safety.

Interior DL - Georgia
EDGE - Michigan
ILB - Georgia
CB - Even
Safety - Georgia

Michigan just doesn’t have the overall talent that Georgia did, despite having solid talent.
CB even? LOL!!!!
 
CB even? LOL!!!!

One of the Georgia’s starting CB’s from 2017 is a pre-season All-American in 2018. He’s probably the best CB on either roster.

Furthermore, Georgia faced FAR better competition in the passing game and actually succeeded against it, while Michigan flopped against better competition.

Even is fair.
 
Michigan was equal (approximately) or ahead in Time of Possession in every single loss. So that's a non-starter.

Furthermore, ALL good defenses have at least some success against quality opponents. 2017 Michigan had none. Heck, allowing 27.5 points/game against Top25 competition was significantly worse than ND's 2017 defense.

As a result, I wouldn't put 2018 Michigan on the same level as 2017 Georgia, at all. They could earn their way up there, but they're not their now and it seems unlikely they get there.

However, I do agree that 2018 Michigan Defense should be better than the incredibly OVERRATED 2017 version. Maybe even improved into a legitimately good defense. Maybe.

They may end up being good everywhere in 2018, but they were VERY vulnerable against decent teams in 2017.
You are falling into the FriedmanIP trap. For starters someone in this thread got it right, in college football dominant offense will always beat dominant defense. That is why Saban changed his offensive scheme after the OSU destruction. Saban came to the conclusion even if he had the best 11 defenders in college, a college spread would kill him. So he needed to go spread. What happened? ND won a NC 42-35. No big deal his defense gave up 35 again.

The reality of college football is a dominant defense will take you so far. It will get you out of those trap games when your offense implodes.

So yes if ND has a dominant offense and UM has a stinky offense the game will be similar to PSU.

That all said the UM did very good work in all games except PSU where they appeared to get bushwacked in a night game whiteout. Against everyone else the defense did very well until it ran out of gas mostly due to depth issues on the Dline.
One of the Georgia’s starting CB’s from 2017 is a pre-season All-American in 2018. He’s probably the best CB on either roster.

Furthermore, Georgia faced FAR better competition in the passing game and actually succeeded against it, while Michigan flopped against better competition.

Even is fair.
I think it is fair to take Georgia's defense overall. However, the corners for Michigan are the strongest unit, better than even the DE's. The two starting corners gave up 22 catches between them the entire year. Regardless of who is winning the popularity contest for awards or who is really a better NFL prospect, no pair of corners had better opposing passing ratings when the ball was thrown in their direction. UM is so deep the talk is to combat the slot fade why not just play 3 corners.

If Georgia had such a fabulous secondary how come they let a freshman go 14-24 and eat them alive? Understood Georgia was selling out to stop the run. But that TD in the NC to win it was an awful bust. Maybe Georgia has one good corner. But the others were not so hot as at least on that play an awful bust lost the game.
 
You are falling into the FriedmanIP trap. For starters someone in this thread got it right, in college football dominant offense will always beat dominant defense. That is why Saban changed his offensive scheme after the OSU destruction. Saban came to the conclusion even if he had the best 11 defenders in college, a college spread would kill him. So he needed to go spread. What happened? ND won a NC 42-35. No big deal his defense gave up 35 again.

The reality of college football is a dominant defense will take you so far. It will get you out of those trap games when your offense implodes.

So yes if ND has a dominant offense and UM has a stinky offense the game will be similar to PSU.

That all said the UM did very good work in all games except PSU where they appeared to get bushwacked in a night game whiteout. Against everyone else the defense did very well until it ran out of gas mostly due to depth issues on the Dline.

I think it is fair to take Georgia's defense overall. However, the corners for Michigan are the strongest unit, better than even the DE's. The two starting corners gave up 22 catches between them the entire year. Regardless of who is winning the popularity contest for awards or who is really a better NFL prospect, no pair of corners had better opposing passing ratings when the ball was thrown in their direction. UM is so deep the talk is to combat the slot fade why not just play 3 corners.

If Georgia had such a fabulous secondary how come they let a freshman go 14-24 and eat them alive? Understood Georgia was selling out to stop the run. But that TD in the NC to win it was an awful bust. Maybe Georgia has one good corner. But the others were not so hot as at least on that play an awful bust lost the game.
quality corner play is a collaboration of factors. first and foremost an efficient pass rush. without that no corner can shut down anyone consistently given the rules of todays game.
 
You are falling into the FriedmanIP trap. For starters someone in this thread got it right, in college football dominant offense will always beat dominant defense. That is why Saban changed his offensive scheme after the OSU destruction. Saban came to the conclusion even if he had the best 11 defenders in college, a college spread would kill him. So he needed to go spread. What happened? ND won a NC 42-35. No big deal his defense gave up 35 again.

The reality of college football is a dominant defense will take you so far. It will get you out of those trap games when your offense implodes.

So yes if ND has a dominant offense and UM has a stinky offense the game will be similar to PSU.

That all said the UM did very good work in all games except PSU where they appeared to get bushwacked in a night game whiteout. Against everyone else the defense did very well until it ran out of gas mostly due to depth issues on the Dline.

This is just wrong.

Good defenses have at least some games where they succeed against quality opponents.
  • Alabama v. Clemson (6 points allowed)
  • Alabama v. Florida St (7 points allowed)
  • Georgia v. Notre Dame (19 points allowed)
  • etc.
  • etc.
Michigan failed against every single quality opponent they faced in 2017. Every single one.

If you fail against every quality opponent, then you are OVERRATED. It doesn't matter what you do against non-bowl opponents if you can't do it against any Top25 opponents.

Thus, Michigan's defense was OVERRATED in 2017.
 
I think it is fair to take Georgia's defense overall. However, the corners for Michigan are the strongest unit, better than even the DE's. The two starting corners gave up 22 catches between them the entire year. Regardless of who is winning the popularity contest for awards or who is really a better NFL prospect, no pair of corners had better opposing passing ratings when the ball was thrown in their direction. UM is so deep the talk is to combat the slot fade why not just play 3 corners.

If Georgia had such a fabulous secondary how come they let a freshman go 14-24 and eat them alive? Understood Georgia was selling out to stop the run. But that TD in the NC to win it was an awful bust. Maybe Georgia has one good corner. But the others were not so hot as at least on that play an awful bust lost the game.

Michigan didn't face many/any good passing attacks, and they got carved up by the little bit that they did.

Penn State, Ohio State and even South Carolina and Wisconsin succeeded through the air.

Michigan has a good CB unit, maybe even a very good one, but their lack of success against decent opponents keeps them short of anything more.

Asking "Why didn't Georgia shutdown Alabama?" would be like asking
"Why did Michigan get humiliated by Penn St?"
"Why couldn't Michigan stop a backup QB against Ohio St?
"Why couldn't Michigan stop an average passing attack from South Carolina?"






A unit or a team that doesn't have success against quality opponents can't be said to be an elite unit/team.

Now if Michigan can shutdown some stronger passing attacks in 2018 (instead of watching them erase leads and takeover games), then we're having a different discussion.
 
This is just wrong.

Good defenses have at least some games where they succeed against quality opponents.
  • Alabama v. Clemson (6 points allowed)
  • Alabama v. Florida St (7 points allowed)
  • Georgia v. Notre Dame (19 points allowed)
  • etc.
  • etc.
Michigan failed against every single quality opponent they faced in 2017. Every single one.

If you fail against every quality opponent, then you are OVERRATED. It doesn't matter what you do against non-bowl opponents if you can't do it against any Top25 opponents.

Thus, Michigan's defense was OVERRATED in 2017.
Every single example that you give the dominant offense was paired with a dominant defense. I agree that a team that excels at both if the other team is not ready be bushwacked. Also all of those defenses deep. Did you read the SI article about how Nick Bosa being the best football player in college. The rhetorical question was asked how come he did not have the same stats compared to his brother. The answer was OSU went 10 team on the Dline and Bosa was only playing 40 snaps.

If you actually watch the footage of especially the Wisc, OSU, and SC games and track the plays, the UM defense does a very good job through the first 3 possessions of the 2nd half. UM gave up more yardage and more points to the offense in the last 30% of the game as they did the first 70%. It is not even a degrading curve but a step function.

So in games where a functional offense could get a lead being dominant for 70% of game would have been okay. Last year that was not the case as someone like Rashan Gary who played with an injured shoulder could not take series off.

So in a roundabout way I definitely agree the UM defense was not complete because they did not have a functional 2 deep in 2017. However, the defense was good enough to back a ten win team if the offense had just been average. With average QB play the only automatic loss on the schedule was the PSU game. And even OSU gave up 30some points to PSU. MSU is certainly a win and Wisc, and OSU become washes.

In our zero sum gain universe if UM is magically 11-2 instead of 8-5 no one is arguing about how dominant or not dominant the defense is. Because it is all about wins. Sort of like making an argument that Max Scherzer has failed the Nationals because they are not winning enough games.
 
Every single example that you give the dominant offense was paired with a dominant defense. I agree that a team that excels at both if the other team is not ready be bushwacked. Also all of those defenses deep. Did you read the SI article about how Nick Bosa being the best football player in college. The rhetorical question was asked how come he did not have the same stats compared to his brother. The answer was OSU went 10 team on the Dline and Bosa was only playing 40 snaps.

If you actually watch the footage of especially the Wisc, OSU, and SC games and track the plays, the UM defense does a very good job through the first 3 possessions of the 2nd half. UM gave up more yardage and more points to the offense in the last 30% of the game as they did the first 70%. It is not even a degrading curve but a step function.

So in games where a functional offense could get a lead being dominant for 70% of game would have been okay. Last year that was not the case as someone like Rashan Gary who played with an injured shoulder could not take series off.

So in a roundabout way I definitely agree the UM defense was not complete because they did not have a functional 2 deep in 2017. However, the defense was good enough to back a ten win team if the offense had just been average. With average QB play the only automatic loss on the schedule was the PSU game. And even OSU gave up 30some points to PSU. MSU is certainly a win and Wisc, and OSU become washes.

In our zero sum gain universe if UM is magically 11-2 instead of 8-5 no one is arguing about how dominant or not dominant the defense is. Because it is all about wins. Sort of like making an argument that Max Scherzer has failed the Nationals because they are not winning enough games.

The only true thing here is: "Michigan was not a complete defense"

The rest is irrelevant and/or wrong.

Michigan was even or ahead in terms of Time of Possession in all of their losses. They were not on the field too long to be good, because their opponents had to do the same thing (or more).

Michigan's defense was good in 2017, but it was nothing more than that. It could dominate weak opponents but it fell apart against quality opponents.

That's what it was, and Michigan showed it over and over and over again.

Because you, and others, like to claim that Michigan had a defense that was better than "Good but not special" in 2017, Michigan's defense is then OVERRATED.







All that being said....Michigan could improve on defense in 2018 and actually become special. There are reasons to believe that they will.

But their jumping off point, the 2017 defense, was nothing more than "Good", because it always, always failed against decent competition.
 
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Uh, I would take Georgia's defense over Michigan's defense in a heartbeat. Anyone clamoring the opposite knows very little about football.
Uh, Michigan led the nation last year with 114 TFL, ND had about 66.

Michigan was 7th in CFB in sacks.

Uh... they also have 9 returning starters. If this wasn’t a team we didn’t hate and play week 1 we would all respect them. They are legit. Stop hatin son!
 
Uh, Michigan led the nation last year with 114 TFL, ND had about 66.

Michigan was 7th in CFB in sacks.

Uh... they also have 9 returning starters. If this wasn’t a team we didn’t hate and play week 1 we would all respect them. They are legit. Stop hatin son!
Stats are quite misleading. they weren't successful in the games that mattered most. easy to fatten up on the also rans.
 
Stats are quite misleading. they weren't successful in the games that mattered most. easy to fatten up on the also rans.
That’s what all good defense do. Bama got carved up 2x by Clemson.

Just don’t get how people don’t see they’re a great defense. They were at worst the 10-15th best last year, and they have a ton of firepower back, plus the 2nd best coordinator in the game.

Can we at least agree they had an play making, fundamental defense last year with loads of firepower returning?
 
Stats are quite misleading. they weren't successful in the games that mattered most. easy to fatten up on the also rans.

ND wasn't successful in "the games that mattered most" (otherwise known as "losses") either. Funny how that works.
 
Uh, Michigan led the nation last year with 114 TFL, ND had about 66.

Michigan was 7th in CFB in sacks.

Uh... they also have 9 returning starters. If this wasn’t a team we didn’t hate and play week 1 we would all respect them. They are legit. Stop hatin son!

Uh.... they allowed 27.5 points/game against Top25 teams, on average.
(for reference, ND allowed 23.5)

Teams that beatup on cupcakes but get exposed and humiliated by EVERY quality opponent they play are far from elite.

Let's be honest, if you actually watch Michigan last season, you saw that defense was nothing special and was overrated.
 
ND wasn't successful in "the games that mattered most" (otherwise known as "losses") either. Funny how that works.
Only 2 though. We were damn successful against USC’s soft ass! Successful against a team that was a hop jump and a leap away from being national champs too.
 
That’s what all good defense do. Bama got carved up 2x by Clemson.

Just don’t get how people don’t see they’re a great defense. They were at worst the 10-15th best last year, and they have a ton of firepower back, plus the 2nd best coordinator in the game.

Can we at least agree they had an play making, fundamental defense last year with loads of firepower returning?

Wrong again.

Good defenses have some success against quality opponents, even if they also have some letdowns
(that was ND last year)

Great defenses have pretty consistent success against top level opponents last year
(that was Alabama last year)

Michigan flopped against every quality opponent it faced.
 
ND wasn't successful in "the games that mattered most" (otherwise known as "losses") either. Funny how that works.

Are you ever going to be right about something?

ND was successful (defensively) in "games that mattered" such as USC, Michigan State, and North Carolina State

Heck, Michigan allowed Michigan State as much success in 1/2 of a game (monsoon in 2nd half) as ND allowed them in a full game...... despite putting the walkons in because we blew them out.

Funny how reality crushes your "point"
 
Wrong again.

Good defenses have some success against quality opponents, even if they also have some letdowns
(that was ND last year)

Great defenses have pretty consistent success against top level opponents last year
(that was Alabama last year)

Michigan flopped against every quality opponent it faced.
Sorry, but I’m gonna respect a team that
1- led CFB in TFL last year
2- finished 7th in sacks last year
3- has the 2nd best d coord in America
4- has 9 returners

If this was any other team you’d feel the same, but sense it’s Michigan and we play them in 3 days you have a slant.
 
Uh, Michigan led the nation last year with 114 TFL, ND had about 66.

Michigan was 7th in CFB in sacks.

Uh... they also have 9 returning starters. If this wasn’t a team we didn’t hate and play week 1 we would all respect them. They are legit. Stop hatin son!
each opponent should be respected. kissing the ring is too much though.
 
Are you ever going to be right about something?

ND was successful (defensively) in "games that mattered" such as USC, Michigan State, and North Carolina State

Heck, Michigan allowed Michigan State as much success in 1/2 of a game (monsoon in 2nd half) as ND allowed them in a full game...... despite putting the walkons in because we blew them out.

Funny how reality crushes your "point"

Hey, if you want to think Michigan's defense is nothing special, be my guest. We will all get a chance to see in just a wee bit.
 
Sorry, but I’m gonna respect a team that
1- led CFB in TFL last year
2- finished 7th in sacks last year
3- has the 2nd best d coord in America
4- has 9 returners

If this was any other team you’d feel the same, but sense it’s Michigan and we play them in 3 days you have a slant.

Wrong. Again.

A defense that gets exposed and embarrassed by every single Top25 opponent it faces is NOT special (not even close)

Also, we're talking about 2017 Michigan, so the number of returning players is irrelevant.

Michigan's defense was overrated in 2017.
We'll see if it improves in 2018 or not.
 
Hey, if you want to think Michigan's defense is nothing special, be my guest. We will all get a chance to see in just a wee bit.

We already saw the 2017 Michigan defense, which is what we're discussing here.

We KNOW that it was nothing special and very overrated, because it showed us that when it got abused by every Top25 opponent it faced.

Will Michigan's 2018 defense be less overrated?
We'll see.
 
You are delusional. UM gave up 14 points and 250 yards of total offense against MSU, despite the offense turning it over five times. In what world is that getting “abused and humiliated”?
If you want to say that with a straight face you need to talk about the fact that that was pretty much in one half of football. The second half was a no gain half for both teams due to weather and MSU packing it in. UM turned it over because they were desperate but they were not gaining yardage so they had no choice to go airborn. Good weather in half number two would have likely resulted in over 400 yards of output for MSU and a larger margin of victory.
 
If you want to say that with a straight face you need to talk about the fact that that was pretty much in one half of football. The second half was a no gain half for both teams due to weather and MSU packing it in. UM turned it over because they were desperate but they were not gaining yardage so they had no choice to go airborn. Good weather in half number two would have likely resulted in over 400 yards of output for MSU and a larger margin of victory.

Yep.
It was half a game.

The funny thing is, if you just double the points that Michigan allowed.....it's almost perfectly in line with their average failure against Top25 teams

~27.5 points allowed.
 
Uh, Michigan led the nation last year with 114 TFL, ND had about 66.

Michigan was 7th in CFB in sacks.

Uh... they also have 9 returning starters. If this wasn’t a team we didn’t hate and play week 1 we would all respect them. They are legit. Stop hatin son!
I never said Michigan didn't have a solid defense. I said that anyone who would take Michigan's defense over Georgia doesn't know a lick of football. I stand by that.
 
Notre Dame played 7 teams in the top 25 last year and gave up 23pts.
Michigan played 4 teams in the top 25 last year and gave up 27pts.

Ain't nobody worried about Michigan's weak ass.

UTSA, Ball State, and SMU had more TFL's per game versus Power 5 teams than Michigan last year.. Chew on that for a minute. I'm so glad we didn't schedule UTSA, Ball State, or SMU, because the stats say we would get TFL early and often.
 
If you want to say that with a straight face you need to talk about the fact that that was pretty much in one half of football. The second half was a no gain half for both teams due to weather and MSU packing it in. UM turned it over because they were desperate but they were not gaining yardage so they had no choice to go airborn. Good weather in half number two would have likely resulted in over 400 yards of output for MSU and a larger margin of victory.
The bad weather was overrated. A thunderstorm line blew through and that was it. After that it was just a drizzle and the field was wet. I have seen far worse conditions. The game was a one score game for most of the 2nd half. Not even Dantonio is so conservative to pack it in when one crazy play turns the game.
 
We already saw the 2017 Michigan defense, which is what we're discussing here.

We KNOW that it was nothing special and very overrated, because it showed us that when it got abused by every Top25 opponent it faced.

Will Michigan's 2018 defense be less overrated?
We'll see.
You live in a completely delusional world. Other people quoting stats and refuse to look at the reality of college football. Alabama which has had the #1 recruiting class every year except last year since 2011 year in and year out has the best defensive recruits. Every year they are two and three deep. In 2014-2015 Alabama gave up 40 or more points 4 times and 20 or more points 10 times.

There are situations where a dominant defense that is backed by a great offense has another teams number. How did Miami throttle ND? Well we know. Its turnovers of course.

Let me put it this way. If you paired Notre Dame's offense with Michigan's defense you have a national championship contender. You probably still lose at Miami because turnovers are killers. But you go into the playoff sweeps stakes with one loss. Of course I am waiting with baited breath how you would rather have ND's defense anyway.
 
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The bad weather was overrated. A thunderstorm line blew through and that was it. After that it was just a drizzle and the field was wet. I have seen far worse conditions. The game was a one score game for most of the 2nd half. Not even Dantonio is so conservative to pack it in when one crazy play turns the game.

Wrong.
Are you ever going to be right about anything?

The storm was BAD and it completely destroyed the 2nd half of the game. Dantonio literally packed it for the 2nd half, knowing the game was over.

Michigan State was CLEARLY the better team during decent weather and was obviously on pace for ~30 points.
 
You live in a completely delusional world. Other people quoting stats and refuse to look at the reality of college football. Alabama which has had the #1 recruiting class every year except last year since 2011 year in and year out has the best defensive recruits. Every year they are two and three deep. In 2014-2015 Alabama gave up 40 or more points 4 times and 20 or more points 10 times.

There are situations where a dominant defense that is backed by a great offense has another teams number. How did Miami throttle ND? Well we know. Its turnovers of course.

Let me put it this way. If you paired Notre Dame's offense with Michigan's defense you have a national championship contender. You probably still lose at Miami because turnovers are killers. But you go into the playoff sweeps stakes with one loss. Of course I am waiting with baited breath how you would rather have ND's defense anyway.

Wrong. As always.
It's truly impressive that you're never right.

Stats don't matter AT ALL if you can never perform against a quality opponent.
That was the case for Michigan.

You keep trying to compare Michigan's 2017 Defense to ND's .... but that doesn't work. ND actually performed against some quality competition (USC, MSU, NC St, etc.) so the comparison is completely dead.

The facts are simple:
  • Michigan's defense got abused by every quality opponent it faced
  • Top level defenses don't get abused by every quality opponent they face
  • Michigan did not have a top level defense in 2017
We'll see if Michigan's defense improves in 2018.
It's possible.
 
They held Ohio state to 31 points. Notre Dame gave up 38 and 41 to Stanford and Miami. 2 offenses that ranked in the 60's and 70's nationally. You can find negativities on both sides. I'm sorry but a team that replaced 10 starters and finished 3rd nationally in total defense is a damn good defense.

You have the same basic intellectual failing as @hfhmilkman and @ivan brunetti do.

Unlike Notre Dame, Michigan FAILED against EVERY Top25 OPPONENT it faced. It wasn't up-and-down, it proved it was incapable of competing.

ND, on the other hand, was up and down. ND dominated USC, Michigan State, and NC State while flopping against Miami and Stanford.

A defense that flops against EVERY quality opponent it faces is nowhere near special. Good? Sure. But nothing near special.

We'll see if Michigan's defense improves in 2018
It's possible.
 
well at least you think I'm an intellectual :). Only difference was ND had a offense to compliment their defense against top 25 teams. Michigan didn't. They had a chance of winning every game last year besides Penn st and that was with a 100th ranked offense, thats thanks to a very good but inexperienced defense

Michigan was I had or equal in time of possession in each of its games against quality opponents… All of which were losses.

Michigan’s defense was abused by every quality opponent face, despite not having to be on the field for any longer than its opponents were.

That really tells you all you need to know about Michigan’s defense in 2017. Overrated.

Michigan’s defense could improve in 2018.
It’s possible.

If Michigan’s defense doesn’t improve significantly, 5 or more losses is likely.
 
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