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Something To Chew On

IrishInOntario

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Feb 21, 2009
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There is a ton of off season love being thrown Michigan's way relative to how stout their defense is. Some are saying that they may have the best defense (or top 3 defense) nationally. They are largely basing that on a combination of last year's results and the fact that they are returning 9 starters from that unit, including guys like Rashan Gary, Chase Winovich, Devin Bush, Khaleke Hudson and David Long, all of whose names I've seen out there in the All American conversation.

I do think the Wolverines have a good defense, but I have a hunch that they are a bit overrated and it's based on the fact that I think they compiled the majority of last year's statistics against some of the worst offenses in the country... How bad you ask?

Florida: 124th Total Offense, 109th Scoring Offense
Cincinnati: 108th Total Offense, 112th Scoring Offense
Air Force: 73rd Total Offense, 44th Scoring Offense
Purdue: 53rd Total Offense, 92nd Scoring Offense
Michigan State: 76th Total Offense, 96th Scoring Offense
Indiana: 84th Total Offense, 78th Scoring Offense
Penn State: 22nd Total Offense, 7th Scoring Offense
Rutgers: 129th Total Offense, 121st Scoring Offense
Minnesota: 123rd Total Offense, 110th Scoring Offense
Maryland: 121st Total Offense, 100th Scoring Offense
Wisconsin: 30th Total Offense, 28th Scoring Offense
Ohio State 4th Total Offense, 6th Scoring Offense
South Carolina 102nd Total offense, 99th Scoring Offense

Let that sink in for a second...

- They played a total of 3 teams who finished in the top 50 of total offense, and 4 teams who finished in the top 50 of scoring offenses.

- They played a total of 7 teams who finished in ranked below 100th in total offense, and 5 teams that finished ranked below 100th in scoring offense.

The only top 25 offenses they faced were Ohio State and Penn State. They gave up 31 points and 42 points in those respective losses.

Now, I understand that they had 10 new starters that will be older and more experienced this year. I also understand that they had a high school offense at times (largely because of QB problems) that put their defense in a bind during their marquee matchups (Wisconsin, Ohio State, Penn State) and the addition of Shea Patterson should help them in that department.

But before we anoint the Michigan defense among the best in the country, can we see them play a few teams with an offensive pulse? The last two high end offenses they faced (Penn State and Ohio State) they yielded 36.5 points per game. That's nowhere near elite.
 
There is a ton of off season love being thrown Michigan's way relative to how stout their defense is. Some are saying that they may have the best defense (or top 3 defense) nationally. They are largely basing that on a combination of last year's results and the fact that they are returning 9 starters from that unit, including guys like Rashan Gary, Chase Winovich, Devin Bush, Khaleke Hudson and David Long, all of whose names I've seen out there in the All American conversation.

I do think the Wolverines have a good defense, but I have a hunch that they are a bit overrated and it's based on the fact that I think they compiled the majority of last year's statistics against some of the worst offenses in the country... How bad you ask?

Florida: 124th Total Offense, 109th Scoring Offense
Cincinnati: 108th Total Offense, 112th Scoring Offense
Air Force: 73rd Total Offense, 44th Scoring Offense
Purdue: 53rd Total Offense, 92nd Scoring Offense
Michigan State: 76th Total Offense, 96th Scoring Offense
Indiana: 84th Total Offense, 78th Scoring Offense
Penn State: 22nd Total Offense, 7th Scoring Offense
Rutgers: 129th Total Offense, 121st Scoring Offense
Minnesota: 123rd Total Offense, 110th Scoring Offense
Maryland: 121st Total Offense, 100th Scoring Offense
Wisconsin: 30th Total Offense, 28th Scoring Offense
Ohio State 4th Total Offense, 6th Scoring Offense
South Carolina 102nd Total offense, 99th Scoring Offense

Let that sink in for a second...

- They played a total of 3 teams who finished in the top 50 of total offense, and 4 teams who finished in the top 50 of scoring offenses.

- They played a total of 7 teams who finished in ranked below 100th in total offense, and 5 teams that finished ranked below 100th in scoring offense.

The only top 25 offenses they faced were Ohio State and Penn State. They gave up 31 points and 42 points in those respective losses.

Now, I understand that they had 10 new starters that will be older and more experienced this year. I also understand that they had a high school offense at times (largely because of QB problems) that put their defense in a bind during their marquee matchups (Wisconsin, Ohio State, Penn State) and the addition of Shea Patterson should help them in that department.

But before we anoint the Michigan defense among the best in the country, can we see them play a few teams with an offensive pulse? The last two high end offenses they faced (Penn State and Ohio State) they yielded 36.5 points per game. That's nowhere near elite.

Don’t forget they had a 19-3 lead in the 2nd half against a mediocre South Carolina team, & even though they knew they were throwing, couldn’t get them off the field, allowing points on five straight possessions...and South Carolina winning.

Also, ND’s efficiency rating was 10th & Michigan’s 9th, with ND returning more production. (And UM losing a stud DT & LB).

ND played 6 teams that averaged over 30 points a game, and held most to well below their average.
 
The funny thing is, no one is taliking much about ND’s defense. As far as the Irish go, the focus has been on Winbush and whether or not he will start or even finish. I have a hunch that the Irish “D” will be the difference in this game along with Yoon kicking.
 
I think Michigan is getting a ton of hype on defense for not only their production last year but also because they had a big time class in 2017 on the defensive side of the ball. I think they expect a lot of those guys to be making a big impact, especially under a well coached defensive staff.
 
There is a ton of off season love being thrown Michigan's way relative to how stout their defense is. Some are saying that they may have the best defense (or top 3 defense) nationally. They are largely basing that on a combination of last year's results and the fact that they are returning 9 starters from that unit, including guys like Rashan Gary, Chase Winovich, Devin Bush, Khaleke Hudson and David Long, all of whose names I've seen out there in the All American conversation.

You can play these games all the time with ranks. The Big12 (and our 2017 offense) tends to dominate the offensive ranks because their conference is not known for great defense.
 
There is a ton of off season love being thrown Michigan's way relative to how stout their defense is. Some are saying that they may have the best defense (or top 3 defense) nationally. They are largely basing that on a combination of last year's results and the fact that they are returning 9 starters from that unit, including guys like Rashan Gary, Chase Winovich, Devin Bush, Khaleke Hudson and David Long, all of whose names I've seen out there in the All American conversation.

I do think the Wolverines have a good defense, but I have a hunch that they are a bit overrated and it's based on the fact that I think they compiled the majority of last year's statistics against some of the worst offenses in the country... How bad you ask?

Florida: 124th Total Offense, 109th Scoring Offense
Cincinnati: 108th Total Offense, 112th Scoring Offense
Air Force: 73rd Total Offense, 44th Scoring Offense
Purdue: 53rd Total Offense, 92nd Scoring Offense
Michigan State: 76th Total Offense, 96th Scoring Offense
Indiana: 84th Total Offense, 78th Scoring Offense
Penn State: 22nd Total Offense, 7th Scoring Offense
Rutgers: 129th Total Offense, 121st Scoring Offense
Minnesota: 123rd Total Offense, 110th Scoring Offense
Maryland: 121st Total Offense, 100th Scoring Offense
Wisconsin: 30th Total Offense, 28th Scoring Offense
Ohio State 4th Total Offense, 6th Scoring Offense
South Carolina 102nd Total offense, 99th Scoring Offense

Let that sink in for a second...

- They played a total of 3 teams who finished in the top 50 of total offense, and 4 teams who finished in the top 50 of scoring offenses.

- They played a total of 7 teams who finished in ranked below 100th in total offense, and 5 teams that finished ranked below 100th in scoring offense.

The only top 25 offenses they faced were Ohio State and Penn State. They gave up 31 points and 42 points in those respective losses.

Now, I understand that they had 10 new starters that will be older and more experienced this year. I also understand that they had a high school offense at times (largely because of QB problems) that put their defense in a bind during their marquee matchups (Wisconsin, Ohio State, Penn State) and the addition of Shea Patterson should help them in that department.

But before we anoint the Michigan defense among the best in the country, can we see them play a few teams with an offensive pulse? The last two high end offenses they faced (Penn State and Ohio State) they yielded 36.5 points per game. That's nowhere near elite.

Well, only one team all year got more than 350 yards (PSU) against that D, and that includes OSU, MSU and Wisconsin. Take that for what you will.
 
The funny thing is, no one is taliking much about ND’s defense. As far as the Irish go, the focus has been on Winbush and whether or not he will start or even finish. I have a hunch that the Irish “D” will be the difference in this game along with Yoon kicking.

"The funny thing is, no one is talking much about ND’s defense."

And that is alright...let it be that way! And I hope the guys remember that and play with passion and aggression.
 
Wow. That does say something.
They have a good defense with a lot of speed specifically at the LB positions. The defense is undersized and susceptible to big plays and QB runs. My hope is ND is able to utilize their size and athleticism on the outside, while wimbush works the middle with his legs.

If wimbush tries to beat them outside with his legs, it could be like Georgia where the run game is neutralized. But unlike Georgia, i expect the passing game to be better. ND has opportunities all day vs georgia throwing and didn't connect, that needs to change saturday.
 
I think Michigan is getting a ton of hype on defense for not only their production last year but also because they had a big time class in 2017 on the defensive side of the ball. I think they expect a lot of those guys to be making a big impact, especially under a well coached defensive staff.

Don Brown developed BC into a top five defense. This is his third season and he has MUCH better personnel than he did in The Heights.
 
Michigan guy here so don't kill me. I have no idea what will happen Saturday night but if you want to delude yourself that this is not an elite defense go ahead. Last year they replaced 10 starters and had no I mean zero experienced depth. Nonelrss they finished third nationally in total defense. They played one bad game all year against Penn St where psu was playing at home in a white out after a bye week. Psu had a great scheme and high end nfl talent at rb wr and te to go with a really good Heisman candidate qb. If nd rolls that out sat I will salute them. In losses to Wisconsin osu and s car the defense dominated early but wore out late. Why? No depth and horrible offense that was three and out or turn over. This year the d is experienced and there is tremendous depth as the entire 2 deep is back. Also the offense should at least be mediocre .These should be major improvements over last year. The defense is super athletic and fast and aggressive. They have NFL talent at every level. Are they beatable ? Absolutely. Every defense is including Alabama but in my opinion it will take a great game plan and great individual efforts from elite talent to do it or turn overs horrible offense and special teams blunders all of which this team saw far too often last year. But if the thought is the Irish are going to just roll over this "overrated" d with an athletic but poor passing qb and a third string rb well I'd be very shocked. Looking forward to a great game on Saturday. ND is my favorite road trip .Go Blue!
 
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Wow. Can we get IrishInOntario on as a Gameday guest?

That’s a stat review that NOBODY has mentioned. It is certainly worth a pause on the ebullient praise being thrown at Ann Arbor.

I will say that I usually don’t put a ton of stock in stats from the previous year in NCAA football. So much can change at the college level. Michigan’s D could be top 5 or top 50. Just gotta rely on our O to play as a unit. We can put points in the board against either.
 
Michigan guy here so don't kill me. I have no idea what will happen Saturday night but if you want to delude yourself that this is not an elite defense go ahead. Last year they replaced 10 starters and had no I mean zero experienced depth. Nonelrss they finished third nationally in total defense. They played one bad game all year against Penn St where psu was playing at home in a white out after a bye week. Psu had a great scheme and high end nfl talent at rb wr and te to go with a really good Heisman candidate qb. If nd rolls that out sat I will salute them. In losses to Wisconsin osu and s car the defense dominated early but wore out late. Why? No depth and horrible offense that was three and out or turn over. This year the d is experienced and there is tremendous depth as the entire 2 deep is back. Also the offense should at least be mediocre .These should be major improvements over last year. The defense is super athletic and fast and aggressive. They have NFL talent at every level. Are they beatable ? Absolutely. Every defense is including Alabama but in my opinion it will take a great game plan and great individual efforts from elite talent to do it or turn overs horrible offense and special teams blunders all of which this team saw far too often last year. But if the thought is the Irish are going to just roll over this "overrated" d with an athletic but poor passing qb and a third string rb well I'd be very shocked. Looking forward to a great game on Saturday. ND is my favorite road trip .Go Blue!
Um definitely has a very good defense. But the offense always has the advantage when talent is similar. ND has NFL talent at every level of the offense except maybe RB and QB (great college QB talent). This will be the best TEs and WRs UM faces this year, with an o-line that should be on par with OSU and UW, RBs are unproven but there's talent (no clue who will play this weekend), and Wimbush. Wimbush is the most athletic QB you will face and he can absolutely sling the football. People thinking he can't throw it are completely mistaken. Question is, has he improved mentally and consistent mechanically. IF yes, the Irish should be able to put up 24+, if No and ND scores less than 20 (unless a lot of rain), I will be extremely disappointed. There's also the chance that wimbush hasn't improved, gets rattled, and book comes in and takes over. In that case, all bets are off. But I don't think that will happen, if it does, Kelly is on the way out.

Look at past games when Clemson and Alabama had great offenses and Defenses, the offense scored and scored and scored.
 
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Oh and there is a lot of respect in AA for the ND defense. Aside from the usual crazies, most I have talked to expect a close low scoring game with a to or special teams play being the difference one way or the other.
 
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Ok no offense but ND receivers are no more proven than ours .I think osu and Mich St to name 2 have better wr talent coming back. And there is no way the line is as good as Wisconsin. ND replaces 2 top 10 draft picks on the left side to block the best dl it will face this year .Good luck with that. The te' look good but when was the last time tight ends single handedly beat an elite defense. And while I expect Wimbush to improve the last time I saw him against a good but not great LSU defense i was not awe inspired. In all honesty comparing either of these teams to Alabama and Clemson at this point is lunacy. These are two good defenses paired with unproven and likely mediocre offenses. I don't see either team getting to 20 without defensive or special teams points. The great thing about college football is you never know but that's what I see looking at last year and this year's rosters
 
I don't see either team getting to 20 without defensive or special teams points.

I think it's a 17-14 type of game. And you'd better not turn the ball over in either red zone. A short field TD after a TO, or a botched red zone possession, could decide the game.
 
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Why are you so clueless?

Explain to me how Chip Long is so bad that Alabama trued hiring him this offseason?
They constantly sabotage the offense by running stupid plays and throwing low percentage passes. It gets exposed when they play tough, quick/athletic and disciplined defenses. The Irish will march the ball down the field with a balanced attack and then run an ill advised play and then its 3rd and long which leads to a punt. ND has one of the most talented offenses in the country. So why is it that all we hear about is the Michigan D? Coaching. Saban wouldnt allow Long to run crappy plays if he coached at Alabama. Remember Lane Kiffin and what he liked about coaching at Alabama? He replied nothing. But where do they end up each year because their head coach is a no nonsense fundamentals type of guy. I watch replays of old ND games alot that's why it is easy to predict what's coming. Kelly needs to focus on detail #1 and then #2 cut out the unsuccessful plays like the screen pass and the constant low percentage passes on 1st down which lead to a 0 or 1 yard run on 2nd down. I would try to run the ball down Michigan's throat and then spread the ball around to all receivers, tight ends and running backs and run a balanced attack. Aggressive defenses prey on offenses that don't adjust. If Kelly and Long want to throw lobs down the sidelines then save it for Ball State.
 
They constantly sabotage the offense by running stupid plays and throwing low percentage passes. It gets exposed when they play tough, quick/athletic and disciplined defenses. The Irish will march the ball down the field with a balanced attack and then run an ill advised play and then its 3rd and long which leads to a punt. ND has one of the most talented offenses in the country. So why is it that all we hear about is the Michigan D? Coaching. Saban wouldnt allow Long to run crappy plays if he coached at Alabama. Remember Lane Kiffin and what he liked about coaching at Alabama? He replied nothing. But where do they end up each year because their head coach is a no nonsense fundamentals type of guy. I watch replays of old ND games alot that's why it is easy to predict what's coming. Kelly needs to focus on detail #1 and then #2 cut out the unsuccessful plays like the screen pass and the constant low percentage passes on 1st down which lead to a 0 or 1 yard run on 2nd down. I would try to run the ball down Michigan's throat and then spread the ball around to all receivers, tight ends and running backs and run a balanced attack. Aggressive defenses prey on offenses that don't adjust. If Kelly and Long want to throw lobs down the sidelines then save it for Ball State.
Honestly I hope chase has about 5 deep ball chances saturday night. A few of those being jump balls. Boykin has great body control and size, but chase has the elite athleticism and size to where he can just go over top and power the smaller DBs.

I do agree, last years play calling and at other times has left a lot to be desired. Part of that was not focusing on brandon's strengths. Brandon isn't a qb where you want him to be throwing the ball super quick, those quick pass throws didn't work well but we kept trying them all year.
 
I think Michigan is getting a ton of hype on defense for not only their production last year but also because they had a big time class in 2017 on the defensive side of the ball. I think they expect a lot of those guys to be making a big impact, especially under a well coached defensive staff.

Michigan has a very good defense. Full stop. Gary has the measurables that make the NFL drool and Bush has incredible speed and power for a guy that played in the 220s last year and is allegedly closer to 240 this year. All of that being said, the most disruptive guy on that defense last year was Maurice Hurst. He had 5.5 sacks on the inside versus Gary's 6 on the outside. Mo Hurst was a beast and would have been a first round pick but for the heart condition that came out at the combine. Still went in the fifth round. Mike McCray, captain, 5 sacks, 84 tackles was also a strong presence. He is more replaceable than Hurst, but for Bush to take his position it means someone else needs to come in and perform like Bush. Hurst and McCray accounted for nearly 20% of Michigan's defense last year. I simply do not see it that the UM defense will be better than last year. I know, returning this and returning that, but the loss of a 1st round defensive tackle and a strong captain/MLB is difficult to address in 1 year. ND's defense returns 96% of its production from last year. I frankly see ND's defense being the more impactful of the 2. Should be a heckuva game.
 
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Michigan has a very good defense. Full stop. Gary has the measurables that make the NFL drool and Bush has incredible speed and power for a guy that played in the 220s last year and is allegedly closer to 240 this year. All of that being said, the most disruptive guy on that defense last year was Maurice Hurst. He had 5.5 sacks on the inside versus Gary's 6 on the outside. Mo Hurst was a beast and would have been a first round pick but for the heart condition that came out at the combine. Still went in the fifth round. Mike McCray, captain, 5 sacks, 84 tackles was also a strong presence. He is more replaceable than Hurst, but for Bush to take his position it means someone else needs to come in and perform like Bush. Hurst and McCray accounted for nearly 20% of Michigan's defense last year. I simply do not see it that the UM defense will be better than last year. I know, returning this and returning that, but the loss of a 1st round defensive tackle and a strong captain/MLB is difficult to address in 1 year. ND's defense returns 96% of its production from last year. I frankly see ND's defense being the more impactful of the 2. Should be a heckuva game.
What I like about this years defense is the young talented players overtook solid vets. Khalid and Pride specifically. I personally think Khalid will have a MONSTER year. I wish the vets didn't transfer, but it's a good problem to have when solid players need to go somewhere else to get PT.
 
Michigan has a very good defense. Full stop. Gary has the measurables that make the NFL drool and Bush has incredible speed and power for a guy that played in the 220s last year and is allegedly closer to 240 this year. All of that being said, the most disruptive guy on that defense last year was Maurice Hurst. He had 5.5 sacks on the inside versus Gary's 6 on the outside. Mo Hurst was a beast and would have been a first round pick but for the heart condition that came out at the combine. Still went in the fifth round. Mike McCray, captain, 5 sacks, 84 tackles was also a strong presence. He is more replaceable than Hurst, but for Bush to take his position it means someone else needs to come in and perform like Bush. Hurst and McCray accounted for nearly 20% of Michigan's defense last year. I simply do not see it that the UM defense will be better than last year. I know, returning this and returning that, but the loss of a 1st round defensive tackle and a strong captain/MLB is difficult to address in 1 year. ND's defense returns 96% of its production from last year. I frankly see ND's defense being the more impactful of the 2. Should be a heckuva game.

Running QBs feasted on the strong but slow footed McCray last year (see Penn State). I don't think that will be the case this season. Agree that Hurst was a beast (I think he will start for the Raiders). And that it should be a heckuva game.
 
Fantastic thread. Great analysis. I could see ND's defense taking this game over. We're loaded at every level, and I think the boys are going to come up big at ND Stadium.

ND has to win the TO battle. UM gonna need some short fields to put up enough points to win.
 
Running QBs feasted on the strong but slow footed McCray last year (see Penn State). I don't think that will be the case this season. Agree that Hurst was a beast (I think he will start for the Raiders). And that it should be a heckuva game.
Running QBs did well vs UM last year with counters. You could flow the RB one direction getting their fast D moving in that direction and have the QB keep going the other way, and it can be done seamless. It wasn't slow footed McCrary, it's never one person.

Now UM could be better and not over play as much. That would result in less QB running production for the offense, but Less TFL on the RB for the defense.
 
Ok no offense but ND receivers are no more proven than ours .I think osu and Mich St to name 2 have better wr talent coming back. And there is no way the line is as good as Wisconsin. ND replaces 2 top 10 draft picks on the left side to block the best dl it will face this year .Good luck with that. The te' look good but when was the last time tight ends single handedly beat an elite defense. And while I expect Wimbush to improve the last time I saw him against a good but not great LSU defense i was not awe inspired. In all honesty comparing either of these teams to Alabama and Clemson at this point is lunacy. These are two good defenses paired with unproven and likely mediocre offenses. I don't see either team getting to 20 without defensive or special teams points. The great thing about college football is you never know but that's what I see looking at last year and this year's rosters

You're underestimating ND's WR's and OL.

ND's WR are far more proven than Michigan's, despite not being overly proven. Heck, ND's 2nd String WRs are about as proven as Michigan's WRs are.
(and probbaly has more talent/potential than Michigan at WR)

As for the OL, stop focusing on what isn't there and look at what is. ND returns 4 players with multiple starts and major minutes from the #1 OL in CFB. ND's OL will be either #1 or #2 for Michigan in 2018 (right there with Wisconsin)

Heck, the only new player on our OL (Eichenberg) smoked Rashan Gary when the 2 of them played in high school.

Our offense will come down to decision-making and timing from our QB, Wimbush. He has all the arm talent in the world, and now he has experience to go along with it.

If he improves on the MSU/USC performances from 2017, we'll score 30+ against Michigan.
If he regresses and plays like he did against Miami/Stanford, then our offense will struggle badly.
 
Michigan has a very good defense. Full stop. Gary has the measurables that make the NFL drool and Bush has incredible speed and power for a guy that played in the 220s last year and is allegedly closer to 240 this year. All of that being said, the most disruptive guy on that defense last year was Maurice Hurst. He had 5.5 sacks on the inside versus Gary's 6 on the outside. Mo Hurst was a beast and would have been a first round pick but for the heart condition that came out at the combine. Still went in the fifth round. Mike McCray, captain, 5 sacks, 84 tackles was also a strong presence. He is more replaceable than Hurst, but for Bush to take his position it means someone else needs to come in and perform like Bush. Hurst and McCray accounted for nearly 20% of Michigan's defense last year. I simply do not see it that the UM defense will be better than last year. I know, returning this and returning that, but the loss of a 1st round defensive tackle and a strong captain/MLB is difficult to address in 1 year. ND's defense returns 96% of its production from last year. I frankly see ND's defense being the more impactful of the 2. Should be a heckuva game.

The 2016 Michigan defense had 8 guys drafted, 5 in the first 100 picks (2 first rounders) and the 2017 Michigan defense was just as good if not better in every statistical category after returning just one starter. That defense returns 9 guys this year.
 
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The 2016 Michigan defense had 8 guys drafted, 5 in the first 100 picks (2 first rounders) and the 2017 Michigan defense was just as good if not better in every statistical category after returning just one starter. That defense returns 9 guys this year.

Michigan's 2017 defense feasted on weak opponents and flopped against decent ones.

When facing Top25 competition, Michigan allowed an average of 27.5 points/game.
(and that's despite effectively only playing 1/2 a game against Michigan State)

Good opponents, especially good opponents with qual-threat QBs, carved up Michigan's defense like a perfectly cooked turkey dinner.

Maybe the 2018 version will be better, but the 2017 version was definitely OVERRATED
 
ey constantly sabotage the offense by running stupid plays and throwing low percentage passes.

They're only low % when Kelly' qbs throw them. Hundreds of small town unrecruited high schools have Qbs that canhandle a quick pass into the flats
 
Michigan's 2017 defense feasted on weak opponents and flopped against decent ones.

When facing Top25 competition, Michigan allowed an average of 27.5 points/game.
(and that's despite effectively only playing 1/2 a game against Michigan State)

Good opponents, especially good opponents with qual-threat QBs, carved up Michigan's defense like a perfectly cooked turkey dinner.

Maybe the 2018 version will be better, but the 2017 version was definitely OVERRATED

The Michigan defense gave up 42 pts to Penn State and 38 pts to Ohio State, teams that were ranked 19th and 7th in total offense respectively (ncaa.com).

Similarly, the Notre Dame defense gave up 37 pts to Wake Forrest, 41 pts to Miami, and 38 pts to Stanford, teams that were ranked 17th, 60th and 79th in total offense respectively (ncaa.com).

As you can see, we can transitive property eachother to death. I truly suspect we will see two top 10 defenses on Saturday. In my humble and non-analytical opinion, the game will come down to which offense shows up. If using last year as an indicator, I think it's safe to say just about everyone would give that edge to the Fighting Irish.

That's why they play the game, though. No such thing as a sure win anymore (unless you're Bama playing Citadel on 11/17....). Michigan was certainly the favorite on paper on 9/1/2007.. Unfortunately, I still remember how that game went.
 
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The Michigan defense gave up 42 pts to Penn State and 38 pts to Ohio State, teams that were ranked 19th and 7th in total offense respectively (ncaa.com).

Similarly, the Notre Dame defense gave up 37 pts to Wake Forrest, 41 pts to Miami, and 38 pts to Stanford, teams that were ranked 17th, 60th and 79th in total offense respectively (ncaa.com).

As you can see, we can transitive property eachother to death. I truly suspect we will see two top 10 defenses on Saturday. In my humble and non-analytical opinion, the game will come down to which offense shows up. If using last year as an indicator, I think it's safe to say just about everyone would give that edge to the Fighting Irish.

That's why they play the game, though. No such thing as a sure win anymore (unless you're Bama playing Citadel on 11/17....). Michigan was certainly the favorite on paper on 9/1/2007.. Unfortunately, I still remember how that game went.


The issue is that you're now cherry picking games instead of looking at all quality opponents.

Michigan didn't just fail 1-2 times against quality opponents, Michigan was 0/5 against quality opponents......resulting in 27.5 points/game.

Simply put, Michigan's "elite" defense got abused and embarrassed against every quality opponent it faced. It never stepped.

On the other hand, Notre Dame had several strong performances against quality opponents. They succeeded against USC, Michigan State, and NC State ... while flopping against Miami, Stanford and LSU.
(pointing to garbage points in a blowout win against Wake Forest is just stupid)







Look the 2018 version of Michigan's defense may be better.........but the 2017 version was OVERRATED.

It flopped against every single top opponent it faced.
 
The issue is that you're now cherry picking games instead of looking at all quality opponents.

Michigan didn't just fail 1-2 times against quality opponents, Michigan was 0/5 against quality opponents......resulting in 27.5 points/game.

Simply put, Michigan's "elite" defense got abused and embarrassed against every quality opponent it faced. It never stepped.

On the other hand, Notre Dame had several strong performances against quality opponents. They succeeded against USC, Michigan State, and NC State ... while flopping against Miami, Stanford and LSU.
(pointing to garbage points in a blowout win against Wake Forest is just stupid)







Look the 2018 version of Michigan's defense may be better.........but the 2017 version was OVERRATED.

It flopped against every single top opponent it faced.

I suspect we will find out soon enough whether or not this is the case :D

Edit: easier to follow now?
 
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I suspect we will find out soon enough whether or not this is the case :D

We already found out that this was the case in 2017.
We found it out:
v. Michigan State
v. Penn State
v. Wisconsin
v. Ohio State
v. South Carolina

We'll find out whether that OVERRATED defense has improved or not on 9/1/18.

There is simply no debating that a defense like Michigan '17, which got abused and humiliated against EVERY decent opponent it faced....was OVERRATED.






Btw, if this defense doesn't improve, and thus Michigan loses 5-6 games, it will be the start of Harbaugh's swansong
 
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We already found out that this was the case in 2017.
We found it out:
v. Michigan State
v. Penn State
v. Wisconsin
v. Ohio State
v. South Carolina

We'll find out whether that OVERRATED defense has improved or not on 9/1/18.

There is simply no debating that a defense like Michigan '17, which got abused and humiliated against EVERY decent opponent it faced....was OVERRATED.






Btw, if this defense doesn't improve, and thus Michigan loses 5-6 games, it will be the start of Harbaugh's swansong

Whoa..

Reading comprehension, big guy. When a point is bolded in a quoted OP, the subsequent reply directly correlates to said bolding. That's Message Board: 101 (MB101), bud.
 
Whoa..

Reading comprehension, big guy. When a point is bolded in a quoted OP, the subsequent reply directly correlates to said bolding. That's Message Board: 101 (MB101), bud.

Message board 101:
Quoted posts only show the first few lines. If you're highlighting later lines, edit the post so they're shown.

Otherwise, how pathetically OVERRATED the 2017 Michigan defense was will keep being repeated
 
Message board 101:
Quoted posts only show the first few lines. If you're highlighting later lines, edit the post so they're shown.

Otherwise, how pathetically OVERRATED the 2017 Michigan defense was will keep being repeated

I love it! I may even be inclined to believe you if you keep up the intensity. You've really got heart, but I believe MORE CAPS ARE NEEDED!!!!
 
Totally disagree. ALL good defenses make their bones off feasting on bad offenses and teams in general. What was Michigan’s time of possession? They had a pudrid offense which led to them being on the field constantly. Also I believe they had a very high number of offensive turnovers which led to scores of that play, not scoring drives.

The fact is they return 9 starters and I respect that defense. I would take this years D over last years UGA any day of the week. They are very athletic and just flat out damn good everywhere but safety.

Oh yeah having the 2nd best d coord in the country doesn’t hurt either.
 
Totally disagree. ALL good defenses make their bones off feasting on bad offenses and teams in general. What was Michigan’s time of possession? They had a pudrid offense which led to them being on the field constantly. Also I believe they had a very high number of offensive turnovers which led to scores of that play, not scoring drives.

The fact is they return 9 starters and I respect that defense. I would take this years D over last years UGA any day of the week. They are very athletic and just flat out damn good everywhere but safety.

Oh yeah having the 2nd best d coord in the country doesn’t hurt either.

Michigan was equal (approximately) or ahead in Time of Possession in every single loss. So that's a non-starter.

Furthermore, ALL good defenses have at least some success against quality opponents. 2017 Michigan had none. Heck, allowing 27.5 points/game against Top25 competition was significantly worse than ND's 2017 defense.

As a result, I wouldn't put 2018 Michigan on the same level as 2017 Georgia, at all. They could earn their way up there, but they're not their now and it seems unlikely they get there.

However, I do agree that 2018 Michigan Defense should be better than the incredibly OVERRATED 2017 version. Maybe even improved into a legitimately good defense. Maybe.

They may end up being good everywhere in 2018, but they were VERY vulnerable against decent teams in 2017.
 
I think Michigan is getting a ton of hype on defense for not only their production last year but also because they had a big time class in 2017 on the defensive side of the ball. I think they expect a lot of those guys to be making a big impact, especially under a well coached defensive staff.
The staff is well coached? I hope so. :p
 
Michigan was equal (approximately) or ahead in Time of Possession in every single loss. So that's a non-starter.

Furthermore, ALL good defenses have at least some success against quality opponents. 2017 Michigan had none. Heck, allowing 27.5 points/game against Top25 competition was significantly worse than ND's 2017 defense.

As a result, I wouldn't put 2018 Michigan on the same level as 2017 Georgia, at all. They could earn their way up there, but they're not their now and it seems unlikely they get there.

However, I do agree that 2018 Michigan Defense should be better than the incredibly OVERRATED 2017 version. Maybe even improved into a legitimately good defense. Maybe.

They may end up being good everywhere in 2018, but they were VERY vulnerable against decent teams in 2017.
18 Michigan vs 17 UGA
DLine- UM and not really even close
LB- wash, UM has 2 all American types at LB, but UGA had the best defensive player in CFB last year. Wouldn’t fight you if you told me UGA’s was better
Corner- UM and not even a discussion
Safety- UGA
Coordinator- UM not even close
 
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