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Riley Leonard is Irish

chaseball said:
Apparently Golson5 knows better than the team at 247 who do transfer player rankings who say Riley Leonard and Sam Hartman are identical transfer portal players (mid to low 4 star types)
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Sam was a prolific cfb player at WF. Riley is coming off an injury riddled season where he threw 3 tds yet they are ranked the same by 247. Just think about it for a second

And dont forget about what the NFL evaluators think of each

One guy the for 100 TDs, the other guy threw for like 23 and they are ranked the same by 247.

That should be the light turning on in your head right there
 
Golson5 said:
Sam was a prolific cfb player at WF. Riley is coming off an injury riddled season where he threw 3 tds yet they are ranked the same by 247. Just think about it for a second

And dont forget about what the NFL evaluators think of each

One guy the for 100 TDs, the other guy threw for like 23 and they are ranked the same by 247.

That should be the light turning on in your head right there
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If Riley Leonard had any NFL future, or was even an impact college player, he would be going pro this season instead of returning to a new team with a bad WR room to try to raise his draft stock.

He's a high floor low ceiling college QB like Sam Hartman was and ND will definitely be happy to have him because the QB recruiting and development at ND have been a trainwreck for several years now and he adds a warm body to the position as ND tries to remedy their QB room on the recruiting trail going forward.
 
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chaseball said:
If Riley Leonard had any NFL future, or was even an impact college player, he would be going pro this season instead of returning to a new team with a bad WR room to try to raise his draft stock.

He's a high floor low ceiling college QB like Sam Hartman was and ND will definitely be happy to have him because the QB recruiting and development at ND have been a trainwreck for several years now and he adds a warm body to the position as ND tries to remedy their QB room on the recruiting trail going forward.
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This is incorrect. Hes only going int his 4th year. Players only leave after 3 if they are crazy elite prospect. And they don't leave following an injury and only 20 starts. That's a low amount.

Hes a mid floor. Sam had a higher floor than him. He still needs a lot of decelopment and he only has 20 starts as a QB. His ceiling is much higher than Sams

I think you were wrong on all points here. You dont know the 2 players coming into ND
 
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Get Nasty said:
Golson and I disagreed on hartman, and I think we utilized him extremely poor this year. Despite that, hartman had his best rating as a QB, and NDs best rating for a QB since clausen. Just think of what could have been if we had a better OC and a little less injuries at WR

With that said, i'm not predicting riley to be better than hartman statistically throwing, but he's definitely more talented. I think we're going to have a much better WR room ( I was not high on a few of our wrs getting major PT this year), so I expect our passing game to definitely have more big plays.

But I don't think there's a comparison in talent of riley vs hartman. At this stage in the game, riley is close to Josh Allen. Big dude, tough, good arm (not quite allens insane arm), but still very raw. Can he develop a bunch at ND with good coaching and great skilled players. I sure hope so, we could be awesome.
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The gap between Riley and the rest of the QB room will be more narrow than was the case with Hartman and the QB room. And it isn't because of those two. That is one upside. ND didn't sit Hartman when opportunites to play others was there. That needs to change next season.
 
Golson5 said:
We all know that. No one disputes that. Some people like you try to push everything on them and others though and look past Sams weakness and his shortcomings. They all get blame including Sam. He wasn't good enough
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The 9-3 season is ALL Sams fault, your BFF Riley will make it all better.
 
Harpo Marxist said:
The gap between Riley and the rest of the QB room will be more narrow than was the case with Hartman and the QB room. And it isn't because of those two. That is one upside. ND didn't sit Hartman when opportunites to play others was there. That needs to change next season.
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Agree they need to get others more opportunities, but no one on the roster at qb is similar to Riley, size and athleticism. Physical abilities huge difference. The question is can he develop mentally on reads, pocket presence, and consistency. If he does he’ll be an early draft, if he doesn’t he could be late draft.
 
chaseball said:
If Riley Leonard had any NFL future, or was even an impact college player, he would be going pro this season instead of returning to a new team with a bad WR room to try to raise his draft stock.

He's a high floor low ceiling college QB like Sam Hartman was and ND will definitely be happy to have him because the QB recruiting and development at ND have been a trainwreck for several years now and he adds a warm body to the position as ND tries to remedy their QB room on the recruiting trail going forward.
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QB class is loaded this year why would he go to the draft? Williams, Maye, Daniels, Nix, Pennix would all go before him. Next years class is a lot weaker. He will have a better chance being one of the 1st QB's taken next year if he lights it up at ND.
 
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Chitown11 said:
The 9-3 season is ALL Sams fault, your BFF Riley will make it all better.
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Golson and I go at it pretty good but I'm going to defend him here. He's not saying nor has he ever said Riley is going to have the best season guaranteed, he's stating how talented he is. I agree 100% that he's extremely talented, significantly more than hartman.

Hartman didn't play as good as he could of vs Louisville/Clemson but he was given absolutely no help from Parker and our WR room. Riley will still have parker, hopefully improved, but should have a significantly better WR room.

Rico - extremely over rated IMO - Slot player that played outside and struggled as bad as i've seen in awhile vs man due to his lack of athleticism with speed ,quickness, and jumping
Tobias - Couldn't get open, struggled with hands, and minimal effort
Tyree made some great plays but at times played like a first year converted RB

Overall, Riley very talented, could have huge year, but is no where near as polished or as accurate as Hartman is coming in as a passer. Rileys legs will be huge with a young oline especially at tackle.
 
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chaseball said:
I was speaking metaphorically "grizzed journeyman vet" just means he's a veteran JAG and whether leonard is 4th or 5th year it doesn't change any of the general point i was making.
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Another one of your nuances here?

Definition of your ‘Nuances’ = you are wrong again
 
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Get Nasty said:
Golson and I go at it pretty good but I'm going to defend him here. He's not saying nor has he ever said Riley is going to have the best season guaranteed, he's stating how talented he is. I agree 100% that he's extremely talented, significantly more than hartman.

Hartman didn't play as good as he could of vs Louisville/Clemson but he was given absolutely no help from Parker and our WR room. Riley will still have parker, hopefully improved, but should have a significantly better WR room.

Rico - extremely over rated IMO - Slot player that played outside and struggled as bad as i've seen in awhile vs man due to his lack of athleticism with speed ,quickness, and jumping
Tobias - Couldn't get open, struggled with hands, and minimal effort
Tyree made some great plays but at times played like a first year converted RB

Overall, Riley very talented, could have huge year, but is no where near as polished or as accurate as Hartman is coming in as a passer. Rileys legs will be huge with a young oline especially at tackle.
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Golson hated Hartman and there isn't much difference between the two. He's talking him up like hes his BFF and Im getting tired of hearing about "all this talent and potential". Lets see some results besides a bad ankle and a sore toe.
 
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chaseball said:
Riley Leonard and Sam Hartman both had a .9200 4-star transfer portal rating as per 247Sports.

Like Sam Hartman, Riley Leonard is a grizzled vet (journeyman) who can fill a spot for a season. When you use these rental players at QB, instead of developing your own player, the rest of your roster better be great if you have any national championship aspirations, and unfortunately NDs roster is good, not great. Anybody counting on Leonard being some major impact player or something is setting themselves up for a world of disappointment.

That's the problem with these stop gap 5th year QBs: yea you can find a QB in the TP to fill a hole on the roster in a pinch, but the portal-rental-qb is always going to be a limited upside guy who would otherwise be heading to the NFL if he was good enough instead of sticking around for another year to play QB again in college.

If this was baseball, the Sam Hartman's and Riley Leonards of the world would be AAAA guys (graduated the farm system, but not good enough for the major leagues). These guys are great organization depth/and can patch up holes on the roster, but if your other players arent superstars to offset the lack of upside, you'll essentially go nowhere with these guys.
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I actually agree with chaseball... And malik
 
Chitown11 said:
Golson hated Hartman and there isn't much difference between the two. He's talking him up like hes his BFF and Im getting tired of hearing about "all this talent and potential". Lets see some results besides a bad ankle and a sore toe.
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Exactly right.
 
chaseball said:
Apparently Golson5 knows better than the team at 247 who do transfer player rankings who say Riley Leonard and Sam Hartman are identical transfer portal players (mid to low 4 star types)
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Facts are hard when he substitutes his opinion for reality.
 
Chitown11 said:
Golson hated Hartman and there isn't much difference between the two. He's talking him up like hes his BFF and Im getting tired of hearing about "all this talent and potential". Lets see some results besides a bad ankle and a sore toe.
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What are you even talking about not much difference?

They are completely different qbs, like no similarities at all.
 
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Golson5 said:
Leonard is not a grizzled vet nor is he a 5th year senior

He's in his 4th year and only has 20 starts I believe

So you got pretty much everything wrong there like usual
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All his talent... Manufactured very few accomplishments.
 
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sjb75 said:
Golson---How do you keep telling us how disappointing Sam Hartman was, without even mentioning the WR room and the OC? Those two areas were woefully lacking.
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Because he ignores reality and replaces it with his opinions
 
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mirer03 said:
Exactly right.
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You are doubling down and agreeing no difference between Hartman and Riley?

What the heck is going on here

It’s like saying Josh Allen and Brock Purdy are the same qb with no differences
 
Get Nasty said:
You are doubling down and agreeing no difference between Hartman and Riley?

What the heck is going on here

It’s like saying Josh Allen and Brock Purdy are the same qb with no differences
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From a production standpoint.

They do things differently, but at the end of the day, their value to the team is about equal.

Leonards next 3000 yd passing year will be his first. He makes up with that with being more nimble. But also more injury prone. Notre dame doesn't need him to run, our rb room is stacked, but the threat is important.

Freeman has stacked skill positions. We need a winner with winner intangibles not "talent" or previous accomplishments.

Interesting that the same polarizing debate took place on lucky lefty the other day.
 
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mirer03 said:
From a production standpoint.

They do things differently, but at the end of the day, their value to the team is about equal.

Leonards next 3000 yd passing year will be his first. He makes up with that with being more nimble. But also more injury prone. Notre dame doesn't need him to run, our rb room is stacked, but the threat is important.

Freeman has stacked skill positions. We need a winner with winner intangibles not "talent" or previous accomplishments.

Interesting that the same polarizing debate took place on lucky lefty the other day.
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We can't win with a game manager or just a game with winning intangibles

For us to win big, we need an elite talent to produce to his ability

Leonard is the most talented QB we've had since Kizer

Will he develop, i dont know. Will he be better than Hartman, i dont know. Will he stay healthy, I don't know

The only thing I know is we now have a really talented QB and it's something to be excited about. Will he play to his level, i dont know

But I'm glad the staff took the chance
 
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Chitown11 said:
Golson hated Hartman and there isn't much difference between the two. He's talking him up like hes his BFF and Im getting tired of hearing about "all this talent and potential". Lets see some results besides a bad ankle and a sore toe.
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Except everything about them
 
Get Nasty said:
You are doubling down and agreeing no difference between Hartman and Riley?

What the heck is going on here

It’s like saying Josh Allen and Brock Purdy are the same qb with no differences
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They didn't let Sam Hartman check plays at the line of scrimmage last year.

It's very unlikely Leonard will be allowed to either with just the off-season in the offense. That means his production opportunities are going to be about the same as hartmans. Add in better wr situation and hopefully he does marginally better, but that's going to be offset by the young line and the fact he's not as accurate as Hartman.

At the end of the day I'd rather have a young guy play through the pain and have complete control of the offense than a rental contained by guard rails.

What both Hartman and Leonard are being asked to do, is maximize possessions and let the defense hold teams down.

Moreover if parker changes the offense to more rpo and horizontal, everyone will be adjusting to a new offense.

I like Leonard, but I expect him to have similar numbers to Hartman, likely a little better due to easier schedule and better skill players (wr). But this isnt Jordan Travis or bo nix.
 
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mirer03 said:
They didn't let Sam Hartman check plays at the line of scrimmage last year.

It's very unlikely Leonard will be allowed to either with just the off-season in the offense. That means his production opportunities are going to be about the same as hartmans. Add in better wr situation and hopefully he does marginally better, but that's going to be offset by the young line and the fact he's not as accurate as Hartman.

At the end of the day I'd rather have a young guy play through the pain and have complete control of the offense than a rental contained by guard rails.

What both Hartman and Leonard are being asked to do, is maximize possessions and let the defense hold teams down.
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I think you'll see a very different offense and different offensive attack with Leonard. They asked Hartman to do that. I think this is Parker's style of QB.

The offense will be different

We'll see who is right
 
mirer03 said:
They didn't let Sam Hartman check plays at the line of scrimmage last year.

It's very unlikely Leonard will be allowed to either with just the off-season in the offense. That means his production opportunities are going to be about the same as hartmans. Add in better wr situation and hopefully he does marginally better, but that's going to be offset by the young line and the fact he's not as accurate as Hartman.

At the end of the day I'd rather have a young guy play through the pain and have complete control of the offense than a rental contained by guard rails.

What both Hartman and Leonard are being asked to do, is maximize possessions and let the defense hold teams down.

Moreover if parker changes the offense to more rpo and horizontal, everyone will be adjusting to a new offense.

I like Leonard, but I expect him to have similar numbers to Hartman, likely a little better due to easier schedule and better skill players (wr). But this isnt Jordan Travis or bo nix.
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....what both Hartman and Leonard are being asked to do, is maximize possessions and let the defense hold teams down......

Manage the game?
 
Golson5 said:
We can't win with a game manager or just a game with winning intangibles

For us to win big, we need an elite talent to produce to his ability

Leonard is the most talented QB we've had since Kizer

Will he develop, i dont know. Will he be better than Hartman, i dont know. Will he stay healthy, I don't know

The only thing I know is we now have a really talented QB and it's something to be excited about. Will he play to his level, i dont know

But I'm glad the staff took the chance
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Hes hardly elite. Im happy to read that you finally admit you don't know everything
 
Golson5 said:
We can't win with a game manager or just a game with winning intangibles

For us to win big, we need an elite talent to produce to his ability

Leonard is the most talented QB we've had since Kizer

Will he develop, i dont know. Will he be better than Hartman, i dont know. Will he stay healthy, I don't know

The only thing I know is we now have a really talented QB and it's something to be excited about. Will he play to his level, i dont know

But I'm glad the staff took the chance
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The most talent since kizer is the dumbest thing you've ever said.
 
Golson5 said:
Except everything about them
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Stats wise very similar. Riley more athletic but he is far far far from an elite passer( average at best). Both were overhyped and Im afraid we will have a very average QB similar to Hartman
 
deadirishpoet said:
If that was Leonard making that run against tOSU he would of got the first down
Leonard seems to be more of a gamer for the lack skills others have.
At least that's the difference I see between the two
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More athletic yes, however he won't last long if he runs a bunch.
 
Chitown11 said:
More athletic yes, however he won't last long if he runs a bunch.
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Run first and run prevalent QB's are an injury waiting to happen.

Say what you will about Sam Hartman, dude played every meaningful snap.
 
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