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Reopening

clearly sacrifice of the elderly, no problem!
but now?
“...15 children in New York were hospitalized from a mysterious inflammatory condition that could be tied to COVID-19, according to The New York Times. Doctors in the U.K. previously warned of a possible connection between COVID-19 and an unusual inflammatory syndrome....”
 
clearly sacrifice of the elderly, no problem!
but now?
“...15 children in New York were hospitalized from a mysterious inflammatory condition that could be tied to COVID-19, according to The New York Times. Doctors in the U.K. previously warned of a possible connection between COVID-19 and an unusual inflammatory syndrome....”
15 out of how many million? How many kids die from the flu a year vs Covid?! Get a life. The flu is waaaaaay worse for kids and nobody talks about that. The concern is all about old people. Old people make up the gov't. Those same people wouldn't give a damn if it was inversely impacting kids and not them. You must subscribe to every overblown and sensationalized news story.
 
since this is a ‘blaming’ country, who will be the target come late June?
because this virus is not done with us! forget the economy, social structure could collapse. The projections out today are dire! I hope the Gov. of Ga. goes in for his tat and a massage before it is too late!

“The faster we reopen, the lower the economic cost but the higher the human cost,” New York Governor Andrew Cuomo said today during his daily briefing. “That my friends, is the decision we are really making.”

And it may be that the world the survivors find themselves living in is a world they do not want to live in!
You are really making crap up you know that. You are part of the problem. Georgia is expecting 4,900 deaths by August. That's a fraction of the people that die in Georgia from heart disease. More people in Georgia will die from strokes this year than Covid.

https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-states-of-america/georgia
 
ah,, even children are an acceptable sacrifice for for you pleasures!
and you are a ND fan? do you think you are a good ND fan? typical of the fan base?

Well, I will say this you deserve what is coming your way!

Unfortunately, others are suffering you!
 
ah,, even children are an acceptable sacrifice for for you pleasures!
and you are a ND fan? do you think you are a good ND fan? typical of the fan base?

Well, I will say this you deserve what is coming your way!

Unfortunately, others are suffering you!
So you think the world should shut down because of 15 kids in NYC? You are assuming nobody cares about those 15 kids because the world considers continuing? Do you have an ounce of understanding of how many unfortunate things happen to people? How many kids died in NYC this year from influenza? Did you give a crap? The answer is no. You didn't care one bit. So that makes you the bad person, not me. I would never wish ill will upon you. Don't throw hate at me or others. You are sick and twisted. I think you need counseling. You are coming off as very emotionally unstable and it's leading you to make predictions that just aren't rational.
 
So you think the world should shut down because of 15 kids in NYC? You are assuming nobody cares about those 15 kids because the world considers continuing? Do you have an ounce of understanding of how many unfortunate things happen to people? How many kids died in NYC this year from influenza? Did you give a crap? The answer is no. You didn't care one bit. So that makes you the bad person, not me. I would never wish ill will upon you. Don't throw hate at me or others. You are sick and twisted. I think you need counseling. You are coming off as very emotionally unstable and it's leading you to make predictions that just aren't rational.
Good news - Auto accidents are way down - stay in lock down forever!
 
ah,, even children are an acceptable sacrifice for for you pleasures!
and you are a ND fan? do you think you are a good ND fan? typical of the fan base?

Well, I will say this you deserve what is coming your way!

Unfortunately, others are suffering you!
The world is an ugly place. I don't know what your stance is on God, but we live in a fallen world full of sin. Thousands of kids die every year for many different causes (including sex trafficking). So while tragic I don't see the world coming to a screeching halt. So to say that someone is taking pleasure of kids dying is just stupid.
 
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The world is an ugly place. I don't know what your stance is on God, but we live in a fallen world full of sin. Thousands of kids die every year for many different causes (including sex trafficking). So while tragic I don't see the world coming to a screeching halt. So to say that someone is taking pleasure of kids dying is just stupid.
Exactly - meanwhile, next time anyone is talking with the "all mighty" you should ask him why he created the Corona - might as well do the same for Ebola while you're at it!
 
Exactly - meanwhile, next time anyone is talking with the "all mighty" you should ask him why he created the Corona - might as well do the same for Ebola while you're at it!
I guess you missed the part we live in a fallen world. That man is sinful, and we have free will. As long as we are in this world there is sin, and evil. You know all the things in the Bible that ND is built on. You know that Catholic school with the football team. But still the Godless believe the Government will save you. Good luck with that, there is only one way to be saved.
 
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Sometimes it is hard to imagine the kind of minds that come up with some of this anti God rhetoric. You better be right because else, you will be wrong for a very long time.

Just like the stock market, every now and then there are warnings and corrections. But if you are not listening or paying attention let alone being a non believer, then you will need to go it on your own! And yep, party till you drop because ‘this it it for you!’. So yea, it is understandable in that context why the elderly and young children are small price to pay for your ‘pleasures’.
 
Michigan is expecting 7,000 deaths. There are 10 million people there. That means the chances of dying there is .07%. In other words, your chance of dying in Michigan is slightly higher than your chance of dying from unintentional injuries (like falling off a ladder). Michigan has 6,000 deaths per year from unintentional injuries.

It’s not that simple.

You have to look at the stats as they impact those at risk.

While the risk to a 30 year old is minimal, the risk that a 30 year old that’s Covid-19 positive will infect a member of the high risk pool is significant.
And, if a member of the high risk pool contracts Covid-19, their mortality stats are sky high, especially with co-morbidities, and what 65+ individual doesn’t have co-morbitities ?
 
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that the 20-50 group fails to grasp the responsible compassion of ^ that fact is a disgrace.
 
that the 20-50 group fails to grasp the responsible compassion of ^ that fact is a disgrace.
If you're over 65 then stay home. Let people who can't retire and still have kids at home to feed work. The fact that people cannot understand the enormous consequences of keeping all of these people locked down while they lose their jobs is sad. There will be more suicides, heart disease, cancer, depression, etc. due to lockdowns than could ever come from coronavirus. The health consequences that people 30-50 will suffer because of this will kill millions over the next decade.
 
Sweden is rethinking the success of it’s ‘herd’ approach. Things are not going so well.
And regardless of the approach, 60,000 deaths each month is not a display of compassion! but of selfishness!

Strategic Companies can get running with skeleton staffs that can effectively be as productive as when fully staffed (an undeniable and unfortunate truth of American businesses).

We can find a way, that can also be protective and compassionate.

But this is not a compassionate caring merciful nation! It is a nation of
“me’s.“

That’s not true.
Population 10.23 million, deaths 2,700, rate .00026.

You don’t seem to realize that the Coronavirus is a deadly disease that’s highly contagious and there’s presently no universal medical cure.

If you look at the stats, a preponderance of deaths are occurring in elder care homes, with the other major pool being the 65+ segment, especially those with co-morbidities.

Also, don’t forget that non-diagnosed “probables” have been included in the death count.

The death toll has nothing to do with compassion !

Companies can’t function as efficiently on a skeleton staff, but, they will operate with less staff when this is over.
 
It’s not that simple.

You have to look at the stats as they impact those at risk.

While the risk to a 30 year old is minimal, the risk that a 30 year old that’s Covid-19 positive will infect a member of the high risk pool is significant.
And, if a member of the high risk pool contracts Covid-19, their mortality stats are sky high, especially with co-morbidities, and what 65+ individual doesn’t have co-morbitities ?
It is that simple. The numbers are what they are regardless of who is or isn't at risk. 30,000 people die a year in Michigan from heart disease alone. 7,000 is terrible, but so is the 1.5 million Americans that die every year for a variety of reasons. What do we do about those 1.5 million people? We try and mitigate. Meaning, we try and make roads safer, get people to stop smoking, get people to eat healthier, give them blood pressure medicine, do surgeries, etc. We do not shut down fast food, ban cigarettes, ban driving, force people to stay home, or make people lose jobs. So, what do we do about Coronavirus? Have old people stay home for a while while others keep their jobs. Let young people build immunity so we don't give it to you. We wear masks so we don't spread it to you. We sat at home for 50 days to keep you safe. Millions of us have lost our jobs for you. Kids aren't learning. Crime is rising. At some point, you need to stay home and let us work.
 
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If you're over 65 then stay home. Let people who can't retire and still have kids at home to feed work. The fact that people cannot understand the enormous consequences of keeping all of these people locked down while they lose their jobs is sad. There will be more suicides, heart disease, cancer, depression, etc. due to lockdowns than could ever come from coronavirus. The health consequences that people 30-50 will suffer because of this will kill millions over the next decade.

Tell us how the jobs performed by individuals 65+ who decide to stay home are automatically filled by individuals who can’t retire and have kids to feed.

If I don’t go to work tomorrow, who has my depth of knowledge and 40 years of experience in my field to just jump into that position ?
 
Tell us how the jobs performed by individuals 65+ who decide to stay home are automatically filled by individuals who can’t retire and have kids to feed.

If I don’t go to work tomorrow, who has my depth of knowledge and 40 years of experience in my field to just jump into that position ?
Right. So punish us all because it impacts you. Makes sense. Sorry man, the nation can't do that. People are restless and need to put food on the table, pay bills, get surgery, save their business, and get other health care besides possible Covid cases that never overwhelm hospitals. If you're 65 you should retire, shelter in place and let the rest of the world live and prevent Great Depression Part 2.
 
It is that simple. The numbers are what they are regardless of who is or isn't at risk. 30,000 people die a year in Michigan from heart disease alone. 7,000 is terrible, but so is the 1.5 million Americans that die every year for a variety of reasons. What do we do about those 1.5 million people? We try and mitigate. Meaning, we try and make roads safer, get people to stop smoking, get people to eat healthier, give them blood pressure medicine, do surgeries, etc. We do not shut down fast food, ban cigarettes, ban driving, force people to stay home, or make people lose jobs. So, what do we do about Coronavirus? Have old people stay home for a while while others keep their jobs. Let young people build immunity so we don't give it to you. We wear masks so we don't spread it to you. We sit at home for 50 days to keep you safe. Millions of us have lost our jobs for you. Kids aren't learning. Crime is rising. At some point, you need to stay home and let us work.

Heart disease isn’t highly contagious.

Heart disease has a familial and an environmental component.

Heart Disease takes years to develop.

Heart disease is in many cases related to elective choices.

None of that applies to Covid-19.

Young people can’t “build” immunity to Covid-19.
The only way to become immune is to contract the disease.
And if you contract it and come into contact with the older population, you’ll kill them, just like someone with aids having unprotected sex with an unknowing partner.

What makes you think you can just step in and fill my shoes ?
 
A
Heart disease isn’t highly contagious.

Heart disease has a familial and an environmental component.

Heart Disease takes years to develop.

Heart disease is in many cases related to elective choices.

None of that applies to Covid-19.

Young people can’t “build” immunity to Covid-19.
The only way to become immune is to contract the disease.
And if you contract it and come into contact with the older population, you’ll kill them, just like someone with aids having unprotected sex with an unknowing partner.

What makes you think you can just step in and fill my shoes ?
All of it applies to Covid. If said people are responsible for their comorbidity as you state. According to your statement, they're at risk of Covid due to their own choices.

Also, yes you build immunity by getting it. In fact, if 70% of young people get it, you won't because the virus will die off as it cannot find a host.

Also, it's your choice to come out of your house and have contact with young people during the pandemic. They aren't coming to attack you. Simple, stay home until there is a vaccine. It's only a few months.
 
Right. So punish us all because it impacts you. Makes sense. Sorry man, the nation can't do that. People are restless and need to put food on the table, pay bills, get surgery, save their business, and get other health care besides possible Covid cases that never overwhelm hospitals. If you're 65 you should retire, shelter in place and let the rest of the world live and prevent Great Depression Part 2.

We’re not talking about the mumps, measles and chicken pox, we’re talking about a deadly disease that results in a horrible death where the patient dies alone, separated from their family for weeks.

Had quarantines not been put in place millions would have died, millions.

I wonder if you’d be so cavalier if your mother and father were at risk or came down with Covid-19.
 
We’re not talking about the mumps, measles and chicken pox, we’re talking about a deadly disease that results in a horrible death where the patient dies alone, separated from their family for weeks.

Had quarantines not been put in place millions would have died, millions.

I wonder if you’d be so cavalier if your mother and father were at risk or came down with Covid-19.
So what do you propose? I take it you'd like everyone to stay at home forever? My parents are staying home. I haven't seen them since March. It sucks, but what the hell else are they supposed to do? And if their kids can't work, we won't be able to afford to drop off groceries to them anymore. Personally, I'd like to get Covid and recover so I can go see them.
 
A

All of it applies to Covid. If said people are responsible for their comorbidity as you state. According to your statement, they're at risk of Covid due to their own choices.

Also, yes you build immunity by getting it. In fact, if 70% of young people get it, you won't because the virus will die off as it cannot find a host.

Also, it's your choice to come out of your house and have contact with young people during the pandemic. They aren't coming to attack you. Simple, stay home until there is a vaccine. It's only a few months.

NONE of it applies to Covid-19.
You can’t inherit it.
The environment doesn’t produce it.
It takes 2 seconds to contract.
Lifestyle choices don’t produce it.

Only one thing causes it, CONTACT, and droplet entry through the eyes, nose and mouth.

As to co-morbidities, many are beyond your control.
You can’t pick your grandparents.
Heredity predisposes us to illnesses beyond our control

After decades, there’s no vaccine for HIV, and there’s no vaccine for SARS, so don’t be so sure that there will be a vaccine for Covid-19.

You can’t “build” immunity !

You want to kill people by being irresponsible.

I wonder how you’d feel about this if older people could contract Covid-19 absent any consequences, but it would kill or seriously damage everyone under 65 if they contracted it.
 
nobody really understands the full nature of this virus. everything said is ‘today’s knowledge! the one consistency is that it is very dangerous and often lethal.
Those that want to play Russian roulette with it are truly irresponsible meatheads!
 
So what do you propose? I take it you'd like everyone to stay at home forever? My parents are staying home. I haven't seen them since March. It sucks, but what the hell else are they supposed to do? And if their kids can't work, we won't be able to afford to drop off groceries to them anymore. Personally, I'd like to get Covid and recover so I can go see them.
So what do you propose? I take it you'd like everyone to stay at home forever? My parents are staying home. I haven't seen them since March. It sucks, but what the hell else are they supposed to do? And if their kids can't work, we won't be able to afford to drop off groceries to them anymore. Personally, I'd like to get Covid and recover so I can go see them.

That’s the same position my son has adopted.

What do I propose ?

Since 80 % of those with Covid-19 are symptomatic, I propose the following.

1. LabCorp and other Labs will test for Covid-19, including the antibody test. With an RX the test is free.
2. Those who test positive should immediately return to work. (Lab
confirmation required)
3. Once the “infected” population has been identified and quantified and
they are back to work, physically identify them and provide an ID card
such that those who haven’t been tested who come into contact with
them know that they can’t get Covid-19 from them.
4. Require masks and gloves for all of those not tested and for those
who have been tested who don’t have the antibody.
5. Continue to practice social distancing for those who don’t have the
antibody.

Absent a vaccine, there is no way to escape an ongoing death toll.

Herd Immunity can only be achieved by exposure to Covid-19.

Hope that helps
 
nobody really understands the full nature of this virus. everything said is ‘today’s knowledge! the one consistency is that it is very dangerous and often lethal.
Those that want to play Russian roulette with it are truly irresponsible meatheads!
Actually not often
 
nobody really understands the full nature of this virus. everything said is ‘today’s knowledge! the one consistency is that it is very dangerous and often lethal.
Those that want to play Russian roulette with it are truly irresponsible meatheads!
Researchers from Sydney University’s Brain and Mind Centre forecast a 50 percent rise in the national suicide rate because of the economic and social impact of government responses to the virus, which would drive deaths to as much as ten times higher than those causes by the coronavirus itself.

Already this year global deaths by suicide are significantly higher than those attributed to the coronavirus. According to the respected Worldometers running tallies, there have already been 374,225 suicides since the start of 2020, whereas the Wuhan coronavirus has claimed 251,898 lives, Johns Hopkins University reveals.
 
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It’s not that simple.

You have to look at the stats as they impact those at risk.

While the risk to a 30 year old is minimal, the risk that a 30 year old that’s Covid-19 positive will infect a member of the high risk pool is significant.
And, if a member of the high risk pool contracts Covid-19, their mortality stats are sky high, especially with co-morbidities, and what 65+ individual doesn’t have co-morbitities ?
It is simple, you protect those at high risk and let those at lower risk start be able to get back to work and feed their families. The government cannot take care of us forever.
 
nobody really understands the full nature of this virus. everything said is ‘today’s knowledge! the one consistency is that it is very dangerous and often lethal.
Those that want to play Russian roulette with it are truly irresponsible meatheads!
Considering I have worked in IT support of public health preparedness for 20 years and have been through several pandemics before and would be included in your definition of a meathead let me assure you that you are not only woefully uniformed but border paranoid.
 
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  • Consider the human cost of the last three pandemics. These are the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s figures:
  • 1957-1958 – the Asian Flu (H2N2) led to 116,000 American dead and 1.1 million dead worldwide.
  • 1968 – during the Avian or Hong Kong Flu (H3N2) about 100,000 Americans died and about 1 million people died worldwide. (In the same year, there were 16,899 “incidents or deaths” in the Vietnam War.)
  • Today’s society is weak, influenced by outrage culture and liberal media. Keep in mind that our population was about 40 percent smaller in the late 1950s and '60s, so the numbers from those pandemics look smaller than they are relative to what we are experiencing today. In fact, their impacts were felt widely. Yet, these three pandemics were dealt with as medical events, and economic and social life proceeded with minimal disruption.
  • The combination of news media desperation for something about which to be hysterical, the Chinese Communist Party’s role in hiding and then lying about the new virus, and absurdly overstated claims of supposedly scientific modelers has led to the greatest self-inflicted economic disaster in history.
 
  • Consider the human cost of the last three pandemics. These are the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s figures:
  • 1957-1958 – the Asian Flu (H2N2) led to 116,000 American dead and 1.1 million dead worldwide.
  • 1968 – during the Avian or Hong Kong Flu (H3N2) about 100,000 Americans died and about 1 million people died worldwide. (In the same year, there were 16,899 “incidents or deaths” in the Vietnam War.)
  • Today’s society is weak, influenced by outrage culture and liberal media. Keep in mind that our population was about 40 percent smaller in the late 1950s and '60s, so the numbers from those pandemics look smaller than they are relative to what we are experiencing today. In fact, their impacts were felt widely. Yet, these three pandemics were dealt with as medical events, and economic and social life proceeded with minimal disruption.
  • The combination of news media desperation for something about which to be hysterical, the Chinese Communist Party’s role in hiding and then lying about the new virus, and absurdly overstated claims of supposedly scientific modelers has led to the greatest self-inflicted economic disaster in history.
Drop the mic and take a bow sir. Fact is we have had worse pandemics and never in history have we shut down the economy. How many will die if we go into a deep depression for many years?
 
It is simple, you protect those at high risk and let those at lower risk start be able to get back to work and feed their families. The government cannot take care of us forever.

What few seem to understand, from a practical perspective, without a vaccine and/or a newly discovered cure, almost everyone will get Covid-19 until herd immunity is at 100 %.

As cautious as the high risk pool will be, eventually they’ll get Covid-19.

You just can’t isolate or quarantine yourself from the entire world forever.

Until herd immunity is achieved deaths from Covid-19 will continue to be a fact of life.
 
The number of Covid-19 deaths has been greatly and artificially inflated !
 
The number of Covid-19 deaths has been greatly and artificially inflated !
Are you on something? You are an alarmist about how bad this is and now you're on here saying deaths have been inflated? You do realize that statement undermines most of your previous posts, right?
 
Dr. Scott Atlas, Hoover Institution senior fellow, recently wrote an opinion piece bashing the latest coronavirus model.

On Good Morning San Diego, Atlas explained that the lockdown and closures were done to “flatten the curve,” which has been done, but those decisions were also made before we had scientific evidence about the coronavirus. The situation we are in now, is not the same as it was when we made these decisions, he explained.

In his opinion piece, Atlas laid out five facts that he detailed.

Fact 1: The overwhelming majority of people do not have any significant risk of dying from COVID-19.

Fact 2: Protecting older, at-risk people eliminates hospital overcrowding.

Fact 3: Vital population immunity is prevented by total isolation policies, prolonging the problem.

Fact 4: People are dying because other medical care is not getting done due to hypothetical projections.

Fact 5: We have a clearly defined population at risk who can be protected with targeted measures.

Atlas explained, “The overwhelming evidence all over the world consistently shows that a clearly defined group — older people and others with underlying conditions — is more likely to have a serious illness requiring hospitalization and more likely to die from COVID-19. Knowing that, it is a commonsense, achievable goal to target isolation policy to that group, including strictly monitoring those who interact with them. Nursing home residents, the highest risk, should be the most straightforward to systematically protect from infected people, given that they already live in confined places with highly restricted entry.”

Dr. Scott Atlas discussed why he believes we need to reevaluate our decision making process when it comes to coronavirus.
 
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What few seem to understand, from a practical perspective, without a vaccine and/or a newly discovered cure, almost everyone will get Covid-19 until herd immunity is at 100 %.

As cautious as the high risk pool will be, eventually they’ll get Covid-19.

You just can’t isolate or quarantine yourself from the entire world forever.

Until herd immunity is achieved deaths from Covid-19 will continue to be a fact of life.
Just like deaths from the flu, or heart disease, driving a car, or taking selfies too close to a cliff and slipping are facts of life.
 
Are you on something? You are an alarmist about how bad this is and now you're on here saying deaths have been inflated? You do realize that statement undermines most of your previous posts, right?

Not at all, it’s a fact.

In New York State hospitals were told to reclassify death certificates for those not specifically diagnosed with Covid-19. That process changed “probables” into hard Covid-19 deaths, thus skewing the statistics..

You should also know that Medicare pays hospitals $ 13,000 for those deemed Covid-19 patients. Ergo, there’s an incentive to reclassify patients who die of COPD or Pneumonia as Covid-19 patients. Hospitals also get $ 39,000 from Medicare if the patient is put on a ventilator.

Do you think that this practice was confined to New York ?

My “alarm” relates to how deadly the Coronavirus is to the elderly.
 
Dr. Scott Atlas, Hoover Institution senior fellow, recently wrote an opinion piece bashing the latest coronavirus model.

On Good Morning San Diego, Atlas explained that the lockdown and closures were done to “flatten the curve,” which has been done, but those decisions were also made before we had scientific evidence about the coronavirus. The situation we are in now, is not the same as it was when we made these decisions, he explained.

In his opinion piece, Atlas laid out five facts that he detailed.

Fact 1: The overwhelming majority of people do not have any significant risk of dying from COVID-19.

Fact 2: Protecting older, at-risk people eliminates hospital overcrowding.

Fact 3: Vital population immunity is prevented by total isolation policies, prolonging the problem.

Fact 4: People are dying because other medical care is not getting done due to hypothetical projections.

Fact 5: We have a clearly defined population at risk who can be protected with targeted measures.

Atlas explained, “The overwhelming evidence all over the world consistently shows that a clearly defined group — older people and others with underlying conditions — is more likely to have a serious illness requiring hospitalization and more likely to die from COVID-19. Knowing that, it is a commonsense, achievable goal to target isolation policy to that group, including strictly monitoring those who interact with them. Nursing home residents, the highest risk, should be the most straightforward to systematically protect from infected people, given that they already live in confined places with highly restricted entry.”

Dr. Scott Atlas discussed why he believes we need to reevaluate our decision making process when it comes to coronavirus.

While all 5 points are valid, how do you protect an elderly couple whose daughter and 3 grandchildren live with them ?
 
It is that simple. The numbers are what they are regardless of who is or isn't at risk. 30,000 people die a year in Michigan from heart disease alone. 7,000 is terrible, but so is the 1.5 million Americans that die every year for a variety of reasons. What do we do about those 1.5 million people? We try and mitigate. Meaning, we try and make roads safer, get people to stop smoking, get people to eat healthier, give them blood pressure medicine, do surgeries, etc. We do not shut down fast food, ban cigarettes, ban driving, force people to stay home, or make people lose jobs. So, what do we do about Coronavirus? Have old people stay home for a while while others keep their jobs. Let young people build immunity so we don't give it to you. We wear masks so we don't spread it to you. We sat at home for 50 days to keep you safe. Millions of us have lost our jobs for you. Kids aren't learning. Crime is rising. At some point, you need to stay home and let us work.
You are one callous and selfish person.
 
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