Positives

[stu4don]

I know people are jumping ship faster than the 1%s on the titanic but I for one see things I like:

• Justin Yoon. Is back and hitting big field goals.
• The Defense. Playing like it is 2012 (without five/high four stars like Manti, Tuitt, Nix, et al.) Nick Coleman played the best game of career. Crawford is one game stronger. The younger guys played well. The tackling was solid.
• Newsome. The real deal who will play on Sundays.
• Hate to say it but I was screaming at the tv -- "Kelly take the clipboard" for those last drives. The guy is a solid OC and always has us competitive in the end.
• In the end we were two bad plays (JO push out of bounds and MQ's whiff) from a win in a hostile (shame on the ND fans who banked out on their tix, shame!) crowd.

That said, Wimbush is definitely a work in progress and none of us expected that given that he is a junior/high recruit who has been here for two years. Kizer spoiled us with his immediate grasp of the offense. BW has thrown four ints that were dropped and he hung EQ up to dry on two across the middle routes. (Great catches, gutsy.) Other than EQ the receivers have been... eh. This team is definitely missing MIKE DEMBROCK -- he was the one minus in the season of plus hires.

But shoot me guys -- but I'm not ready to do the fan "just drop the rest of the games so we can can Kelly" thing. The recruiting class is too good, the current team has worked damn hard. Who do we hire to take over - Elko? I think this team could win the next four and play a #2 ranked USC team. Then things get interesting.

The o-line didn't show it this week vs. one of the best front sevens in the country, but we should dominate the teams running without GA front seven talent. But we will need Wimbush to improve and some money receivers to step up.

If we lose one of the next four I will be prepared to jump the can Kelly train.

 

[iwish]

Agree with 99.5% of this. BK let Elko and Long do their thing as far as I could tell. That probably killed him at the end, as you stated - I'm sure he would have loved to take over the play calling. UGA's D got the better of us and BW needs more reps. As Tranquill stated, I too believe the Irish are going to just get better as they go this year. The D, with confidence, will surprise a lot of teams. BC will be just what they need to get back on track.

 

[twalsh]

You have to like how the defense has looked so far. They have been very respectable in both games, and that's not been a description we've heard much over the past couple of years. We are pretty much doing everything better, and the line has been a pleasant surprise.

 

[IrishMike409]

I know people are jumping ship faster than the 1%s on the titanic but I for one see things I like:

• Justin Yoon. Is back and hitting big field goals.
• The Defense. Playing like it is 2012 (without five/high four stars like Manti, Tuitt, Nix, et al.) Nick Coleman played the best game of career. Crawford is one game stronger. The younger guys played well. The tackling was solid.
• Newsome. The real deal who will play on Sundays.
• Hate to say it but I was screaming at the tv -- "Kelly take the clipboard" for those last drives. The guy is a solid OC and always has us competitive in the end.
• In the end we were two bad plays (JO push out of bounds and MQ's whiff) from a win in a hostile (shame on the ND fans who banked out on their tix, shame!) crowd.

That said, Wimbush is definitely a work in progress and none of us expected that given that he is a junior/high recruit who has been here for two years. Kizer spoiled us with his immediate grasp of the offense. BW has thrown four ints that were dropped and he hung EQ up to dry on two across the middle routes. (Great catches, gutsy.) Other than EQ the receivers have been... eh. This team is definitely missing MIKE DEMBROCK -- he was the one minus in the season of plus hires.

But shoot me guys -- but I'm not ready to do the fan "just drop the rest of the games so we can can Kelly" thing. The recruiting class is too good, the current team has worked damn hard. Who do we hire to take over - Elko? I think this team could win the next four and play a #2 ranked USC team. Then things get interesting.

The o-line didn't show it this week vs. one of the best front sevens in the country, but we should dominate the teams running without GA front seven talent. But we will need Wimbush to improve and some money receivers to step up.

If we lose one of the next four I will be prepared to jump the can Kelly train.

Perfectly said.

 

[Telx1]

At one of the post practice conferences a week or so before the season, Kelly stated that the defense was ahead of the offense. At the time, I thought this was just Kelly talking up the defense for confidence building, etc... Now I see where he was being absolutely candid. We all assumed Wimbush was more than ready to step in as QB, and that our receivers were going to be lethal, and the OL would just dominate, and our three headed running attack would rack up the yards and the td's. Temple lulled us into thinking our expectations were realized, and Georgia exposed us, even if we had squeezed out a win. I think the pieces are there, and I think the next four games are perfect for this offense and key individuals to improve to the level we expected at the onset.

 

[john0gaunt]

Kelly stated that the defense was ahead of the offense

Is there a CFB team, or any team anywhere really, who wouldn't say the defense was ahead of the offense for the first couple weeks of a season?

 

[Telx1]

Is there a CFB team, or any team anywhere really, who wouldn't say the defense was ahead of the offense for the first couple weeks of a season?

Yea, ND last year comes to mind!

 

[Bodizephax]

At one of the post practice conferences a week or so before the season, Kelly stated that the defense was ahead of the offense. At the time, I thought this was just Kelly talking up the defense for confidence building, etc... Now I see where he was being absolutely candid. We all assumed Wimbush was more than ready to step in as QB, and that our receivers were going to be lethal, and the OL would just dominate, and our three headed running attack would rack up the yards and the td's. Temple lulled us into thinking our expectations were realized, and Georgia exposed us, even if we had squeezed out a win. I think the pieces are there, and I think the next four games are perfect for this offense and key individuals to improve to the level we expected at the onset.

Telx, maybe it is the head coach that turns to jelly when the game is on the line I blame Kelly for trying to run the clock out with three straight runs with over 8 minutes to go when the running game was not working. He should have at least passed on third down.

 

[NIN Irish]

No doubt the team looks better than last year in many areas than a 4-8 team, the problem is, it's another loss to question the coaching. Where was Dexter?

Maybe the Irish win out, and win a major bowl, that's the hope, but an 8-5 season is more likely. Then what?

 

[Telx1]

Telx, maybe it is the head coach that turns to jelly when the game is on the line I blame Kelly for trying to run the clock out with three straight runs with over 8 minutes to go when the running game was not working. He should have at least passed on third down.

Bodi, the whole offense never had any rhythm. Wimbush was under constant pressure, and Georgia was licking their chops every obvious passing situation. I wish we had tried some quick hitting runs instead of our slow developing runs where the rb waits for an opening, as the openings never developed. Not sure why our screen plays looked so pathetic, and they did against a Temple as well. Also not sure why we didn't roll Wimbush out to give more time, etc... I think we played conservative when leading in the fourth because Wimbush has made a lot of passing mistakes, four of which were easy interceptions that were dropped in two games, and our OL wasn't able to provide decent protection. At this point, the offense needs a ton of work. Not nearly as good as we looked against Temple, nor as inadequate as we looked against Georgia.

 

[Bodizephax]

Bodi, the whole offense never had any rhythm. Wimbush was under constant pressure, and Georgia was licking their chops every obvious passing situation. I wish we had tried some quick hitting runs instead of our slow developing runs where the rb waits for an opening, as the openings never developed. Not sure why our screen plays looked so pathetic, and they did against a Temple as well. Also not sure why we didn't roll Wimbush out to give more time, etc... I think we played conservative when leading in the fourth because Wimbush has made a lot of passing mistakes, four of which were easy interceptions that were dropped in two games, and our OL wasn't able to provide decent protection. At this point, the offense needs a ton of work. Not nearly as good as we looked against Temple, nor as inadequate as we looked against Georgia.

Telx, you have a good understanding of the game. Did you ever coach.?

 

[stu4don]

New QB (our one from last year started in the NFL on Sunday and had a pretty good game.) Feels like Chip Long played into their hands. Their front seven were better than our O-line. I thought our chance on O was to challenge their secondary down field. We didn't. Telx -- seems they schemed to keep BW in the box, no roll outs, no scrambles, even on his runs they dared him to dart inside and take three or four yards. He didn't.

Big question for me is -- will he learn from this? When will that coin drop for BW.

Hope soon, because watching USC on Saturday, we will need the offense to score points. USC's offense is what Georgia's defense was this weekend.

That said, we're playing BC on Sat. One game at at time. Win the next one.

 

[Bodizephax]

New QB (our one from last year started in the NFL on Sunday and had a pretty good game.) Feels like Chip Long played into their hands. Their front seven were better than our O-line. I thought our chance on O was to challenge their secondary down field. We didn't. Telx -- seems they schemed to keep BW in the box, no roll outs, no scrambles, even on his runs they dared him to dart inside and take three or four yards. He didn't.

Big question for me is -- will he learn from this? When will that coin drop for BW.

Hope soon, because watching USC on Saturday, we will need the offense to score points. USC's offense is what Georgia's defense was this weekend.

That said, we're playing BC on Sat. One game at at time. Win the next one.

You sound happy we lost.

 

[Telx1]

Telx, you have a good understanding of the game. Did you ever coach.?

No, never.

 

[Telx1]

New QB (our one from last year started in the NFL on Sunday and had a pretty good game.) Feels like Chip Long played into their hands. Their front seven were better than our O-line. I thought our chance on O was to challenge their secondary down field. We didn't. Telx -- seems they schemed to keep BW in the box, no roll outs, no scrambles, even on his runs they dared him to dart inside and take three or four yards. He didn't.

Big question for me is -- will he learn from this? When will that coin drop for BW.

Hope soon, because watching USC on Saturday, we will need the offense to score points. USC's offense is what Georgia's defense was this weekend.

That said, we're playing BC on Sat. One game at at time. Win the next one.

Actually, I thought Stanford was a hell of a lot better than the score would suggest. The USC receivers made several incredible catches, each better than anything we've seen out of any of our receivers this year. I think USC will be undefeated when we meet, and I won't be surprised if Stanford has only the one defeat when we play them. But, as Stu says, one game at a time and Boston College is that game, and my hope and expectation is we will improve significantly each week and enter the USC game 5-1.

 

[Pennick44]

Is there a CFB team, or any team anywhere really, who wouldn't say the defense was ahead of the offense for the first couple weeks of a season?

Yes

 

[justified1]

Maybe I am getting the Bodi mindset but the positive I see from the Georgia game is it
is 1 game closer to the expiration of the Kelly contract.

 

[IrishMike409]

Maybe I am getting the Bodi mindset but the positive I see from the Georgia game is it
is 1 game closer to the expiration of the Kelly contract.

Ok. Fair enough, but you can't just say "get rid of the coach". What's YOUR plan? And don't say Gruden or Kyle Shanahan.

 

[NDSMC78]

Maybe I am getting the Bodi mindset but the positive I see from the Georgia game is it
is 1 game closer to the expiration of the Kelly contract.

Kelly's contract extends through 2021. It is not going to expire for quite a while. It is conceivable, however, that he could be fired.

 

[stu4don]

No Bodi, not happy at all. Still stings.

Telx-- Stanford gave up 304 yards on the ground vs. USC! USC scored at will and Sammy D threw the ball all over the field (21-26) with abandon. It wasn't only the receivers. And this was vs. a team that struggled mightily the fist week vs. W. Michigan.

As you said, one week at a time. But if we continue to play this kind of defense, run the ball on teams not named Georgia and limit turnovers -- I see this Kelly team beating the lesser opponents on the schedule. But to beat the good ones like USC, Miami, okay Stanford -- Wimbush is going to have to be better.

Funny a lot of guys on this site were screaming for Kelly to give up calling plays. He does just that. Chip underperforms vs. one of the best 3 defenses in the country, and people are calling for Kelly's head. What's a guy to do?

 

[Kelso86]

Kelly's contract extends through 2021. It is not going to expire for quite a while. It is conceivable, however, that he could be fired.

It is conceivable, but highly unlikely -- unless the Irish crash land to another 4-8 season (then all bets are off).

The massive overhaul to the staff was not done for a 1 year experiment (from the mouth of Jack S)-- This is also Kelly's 1st year as a CEO type coach -- I believe ND fans will see tangible improvement throughout the year -- and the recruiting will continue to yield better results.

 

[justified1]

Kelly's contract extends through 2021. It is not going to expire for quite a while. It is conceivable, however, that he could be fired.

My opinion is that Mr. Swarbrick would not fire Kelly for football coaching failures. It would take some egregious behavior or happening for Kelly to be fired. So 2021 you say? then just 58 more regular season games to go.

 

[john0gaunt]

If Kelly were to lose a couple games early this year, ie BC, the fan reaction to him at home games would cause him to leave voluntary. He wouldn't be able to stand the heat in the kitchen.

 

[NDSMC78]

Kelso/justified, I agree that there is a very good chance that Kelly will be back in 2018 and beyond. I also agree that he is gone with another 4-8 season. I think there is a good chance he is gone with a 6-6 season, maybe even 7-5. If we go 8-4 or better, he is back.

 

[Telx1]

It is conceivable, but highly unlikely -- unless the Irish crash land to another 4-8 season (then all bets are off).

The massive overhaul to the staff was not done for a 1 year experiment (from the mouth of Jack S)-- This is also Kelly's 1st year as a CEO type coach -- I believe ND fans will see tangible improvement throughout the year -- and the recruiting will continue to yield better results.

Frankly, it's inconceivable to me that Kelly would stay through 2021. Assuming he survives this season, my guess is he coaches next season, declares he has set the foundation for the program's future success, and then retires after next year. And I think JS and Kelly have probably already discussed this and it will be done publicly in a way that allows for the timely hiring of a new head coach.

 

[Kelso86]

Kelly's contract extends through 2021. It is not going to expire for quite a while. It is conceivable, however, that he could be fired.

It is conceivable, but highly unlikely -- unless the Irish crash land to another 4-8 season (then all bets are off).

The massive overhaul to the staff was not done for a 1 year experiment (from the mouth of Jack S)-- This is also Kelly's 1st year as a CEO type coach -- I believe ND fans will see tangible improvement throughout the year -- and the recruiting will continue to yield better results.

 

[Kelso86]

Kelso/justified, I agree that there is a very good chance that Kelly will be back in 2018 and beyond. I also agree that he is gone with another 4-8 season. I think there is a good chance he is gone with a 6-6 season, maybe even 7-5. If we go 8-4 or better, he is back.

78 -- I am with ya -- anything 6-6 and less and I believe he has to be gone.

 

[Telx1]

No Bodi, not happy at all. Still stings.

Telx-- Stanford gave up 304 yards on the ground vs. USC! USC scored at will and Sammy D threw the ball all over the field (21-26) with abandon. It wasn't only the receivers. And this was vs. a team that struggled mightily the fist week vs. W. Michigan.

As you said, one week at a time. But if we continue to play this kind of defense, run the ball on teams not named Georgia and limit turnovers -- I see this Kelly team beating the lesser opponents on the schedule. But to beat the good ones like USC, Miami, okay Stanford -- Wimbush is going to have to be better.

Funny a lot of guys on this site were screaming for Kelly to give up calling plays. He does just that. Chip underperforms vs. one of the best 3 defenses in the country, and people are calling for Kelly's head. What's a guy to do?[/QUOTE
Stu, The USC running attack was incredible and the yards gained after initial hit was impressive by the two backs they were rotating. I thought Stanford defensive backs played pretty damn good defense, and yet Sammy D as you reference, was throwing the ball in places where only the receiver could make the play. He also extended plays under pressure and the receivers invariably got open, and he found them. It was one hell of an impressive offensive display by a team that looked mediocre the prior week, against a team that looked like a top five candidate the prior week.

Agree that Wimbush has to improve a lot and we need to see this improvement each and every week if we are to beat the likes of the three teams you mentioned. Our offensive line needs to vastly improve its pass blocking and our tight ends as well, if Wimbush is to be given a decent amount of time to go through his progressions, and stay in the pocket long enough to do so. And we need to significantly improve our execution of screen plays, as OL is telegraphing these and we're getting stuffed, in both the Temple and Georgia games.

Your comments about Kelly and Long are exactly on point, and it's almost comical the flip flopping going on here. Essentially, if the offense plays great and we win then Long is credited with sticking with his commitment to the run, and his brilliant patient play calling; and if we lose, then Kelly is blamed for too many running plays and poor play calling, etc... the life of a head coach at Norte Dame!

 

[IrishBlessings]

Kelso/justified, I agree that there is a very good chance that Kelly will be back in 2018 and beyond. I also agree that he is gone with another 4-8 season. I think there is a good chance he is gone with a 6-6 season, maybe even 7-5. If we go 8-4 or better, he is back.

8-4 is now an acceptable record for ND football - Wow ! - mediocrity and a low level bowl game has officially set in among a good number of ND fans.

 

[justified1]

8-4 is now an acceptable record for ND football - Wow ! - mediocrity and a low level bowl game has officially set in among a good number of ND fans.

Just us, getting used to it.

 

[NDSMC78]

8-4 is now an acceptable record for ND football - Wow ! - mediocrity and a low level bowl game has officially set in among a good number of ND fans.

Where did I say that?

 

[IrishBlessings]

Where did I say that?

You state if he goes 8-4 or better - he is back, You are accepting 8-4 as an acceptable record for the ND head coach who has a career ND coaching average of 8-4 seasons to get another season as the head coach.

 

[twalsh]

You state if he goes 8-4 or better - he is back, You are accepting 8-4 as an acceptable record for the ND head coach who has a career ND coaching average of 8-4 seasons to get another season as the head coach.

Do YOU think he will be fired if we go 8-4?

 

[IrishBlessings]

Do YOU think he will be fired if we go 8-4?

I wish he had been fired last year. DO I think he will be fired after a 8-4 season this year - hell no - if he didn't get fired after a 4-8 season where he blames his players and others for losses - then how in the hell would he be fired for his ND standard of 8-4 ? 8-4 and a low level bowl for the AD and some will be seen as a great rebuilding year.

THE AD screwed up w/ his crazy extension to BK - it's all about $$$.

 

[twalsh]

I wish he had been fired last year. DO I think he will be fired after a 8-4 season this year - hell no - if he didn't get fired after a 4-8 season where he blames his players and others for losses - then how in the hell would he be fired for his ND standard of 8-4 ? 8-4 and a low level bowl for the AD and some will be seen as a great rebuilding year.

THE AD screwed up w/ his crazy extension to BK - it's all about $$$.

Well, based on your previous email response to 78, that means you accept 8-4 seasons at ND.

 

[IrishBlessings]

Well, based on your previous email response to 78, that means you accept 8-4 seasons at ND.

No I do not accept 8-4 - Did you read my post - I said if the AD did not fire him after an 4-8 season then the AD won't fire him after a 8-4 season since the AD will see that as a great rebuilding year. Hope you did not attend ND - your reading comprehension is not very good.

 

[twalsh]

No I do not accept 8-4 - Did you read my post - I said if the AD did not fire him after an 4-8 season then the AD won't fire him after a 8-4 season since the AD will see that as a great rebuilding year. Hope you did not attend ND - your reading comprehension is not very good.

Sorry sport, this was your answer to 78:

"You state if he goes 8-4 or better - he is back, You are accepting 8-4 as an acceptable record for the ND head coach who has a career ND coaching average of 8-4 seasons to get another season as the head coach."

Your insinuation is that being of the opinion that he will be back at 8-4 means you accept 8-4. My reading comprehension is just fine.

 

[IrishBlessings]

You, 78, the AD can enjoy watching "Kelly Ball". He may get 8 or 9 wins this year. ND has more or as good of talent than almost every team we play - based off recruiting rankings.

 

[twalsh]

You, 78, the AD can enjoy watching "Kelly Ball". He may get 8 or 9 wins this year. ND has more or as good of talent than almost every team we play - based off recruiting rankings.

I'll take that as a surrender.

 

[IrishBlessings]

Sorry sport, this was your answer to 78:

"You state if he goes 8-4 or better - he is back, You are accepting 8-4 as an acceptable record for the ND head coach who has a career ND coaching average of 8-4 seasons to get another season as the head coach."

Your insinuation is that being of the opinion that he will be back at 8-4 means you accept 8-4. My reading comprehension is just fine.

NO - my first two words of my statement is "YOU STATE..." and I also say "YOU ARE ACCEPTING...." - not sure where you took English classes or went to school. God bless you w/ your the level of education.