It's just haters hating Kelly. Anything they think that will make Kelly look bad they will post. Weather they truly believe what they post does not matter.
Phil Jurkovec Transferring
- Thread starter IrishInOntario
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Wait, I thought I was a Kelly apologist?
I am also called a Book-apologist.
I’m also called a ND homer.
Most people on here think I’m 100% brainwashed to be pro everything BK & ND.
But even I’m saying I’m hearing from everywhere....as in 4 different sites, families of players, people from inside the Gug...that there was a problem between Rees/Long & Phil & they weren’t willing to work with him.
The problem isn’t the past, it’s the future. Phil didn’t expect to start this year. But he knew that moving forward Rees isn’t going to spend time on him. And this is evident now that it’s being reported everywhere that Rees doesn’t want Phil back.
They don’t like him in their system. He’s an athlete first with a big arm. They want a pocket passer.
You keep quoting that passer rating as if it's valid. He didn't play a single meaningful snap in his abbreviated career. It's just ridiculous!
I'm the last guy to defend BK but if he thought PJ gave him the best chance to win, he'd be playing and staying.
At best, we (including you) still don't know what he can be.
At worst, he can't play at an elite level.
The other QB's that left ND under BK never did much which is telling (they just weren't that good.)
We'll find out soon.
End of story.
I don’t know.... that’s not Buchner.... he’s better at passing than Phil by a long ways but he’s not a typical pocket passer
No way he was elite. If he was Trevor Lawrence or Joe Burrough he’d be on the field.
Buchner is pass first though. Buchner runs well on design plays & when he has to. But he doesn’t look to run first. He is a legit pocket passer. Phil is an athlete first.
Are you telling me you can’t find the other sites? You seriously can’t find podcasts, articles, forums from the other major ND sites?
In the past when I posted links to competitors I got in trouble. And I can’t give you links to pay sites.
So I will try to lead you to one that’s free, without naming it. Okay? It’s a newer site ran by a huge sports organization. There is a free podcast/article/discussion on it that goes through the past few months. Hopefully that is enough for you to find it.
From what I’ve heard kelly say about him I do not believe they have any faith in him. Granted if phil was lighting up practice they would have more confidence. I think he was not as good as he was thought to be and the coaches mishandled him
I just don’t understand the whaling and gnashing of teeth over a player who has hardly played. If you turns into the next Joe Burrow you can pin this thread to top forever than.
You’re not missing much with the site he’s trying to point you to. You can get the gist of everything said there by reading most of the talking points on these forums.
If he turns into the next joe burrow I will buy a Phil J nfl jersey and I think guys buying other guys jerseys is the dumbest thing ever
“Backup on a title contender to be exact. There is a ton of nuance between those two.”
Nice revisionist history. You said “backup at best” when I said that he was the better passer than wimbush in the spring game two years ago. Ragged on anyone that thought he’d be anything more than that.
”Yes, Ian Book has proven to be better than I thought he could be. No Ian Book has shown a shred of ability that would lead anyone to believe that ND could beat an Ohio State, Clemson or LSU program in 2020. There are about 5 teams that are gatekeepers for the Championship right now.
1. Clemson
2. Alabama
3. Ohio State
4. LSU
5. Georgia”
Nonsense. He played plenty well enough to beat one of the teams on your list this past season.
I don't see Ian Book as some transcendent talent that can be the difference in overcoming the talent gap possessed by those programs. It's not fault of the kid. He's really solid. A top 4 QB at ND over the past 15 years (along with Quinn, Clausen and Kizer), but in the national landscape he hasn't yet proven to be near the capability of a Lawrence, Burrow, Tu'a, or Fields... And he doesn't have the supporting cast that Fromm does.
The kid is good, but does anybody actually think he's good enough to play for a title? JMO.”
That is just your opinion. He’s already made it to a playoffs, so saying he’s incapable of doing anything ”significant” has already been proven wrong, similar to your initial evaluation of him, when you ridiculed anyone that thought he was better than a backup. You’ve had an agenda against the kid since day one. You may know your stuff in general but I don’t take a thing you about book seriously.
Nice revisionist history. You said “backup at best” when I said that he was the better passer than wimbush in the spring game two years ago. Ragged on anyone that thought he’d be anything more than that.
”Yes, Ian Book has proven to be better than I thought he could be. No Ian Book has shown a shred of ability that would lead anyone to believe that ND could beat an Ohio State, Clemson or LSU program in 2020. There are about 5 teams that are gatekeepers for the Championship right now.
1. Clemson
2. Alabama
3. Ohio State
4. LSU
5. Georgia”
Nonsense. He played plenty well enough to beat one of the teams on your list this past season.
I don't see Ian Book as some transcendent talent that can be the difference in overcoming the talent gap possessed by those programs. It's not fault of the kid. He's really solid. A top 4 QB at ND over the past 15 years (along with Quinn, Clausen and Kizer), but in the national landscape he hasn't yet proven to be near the capability of a Lawrence, Burrow, Tu'a, or Fields... And he doesn't have the supporting cast that Fromm does.
The kid is good, but does anybody actually think he's good enough to play for a title? JMO.”
That is just your opinion. He’s already made it to a playoffs, so saying he’s incapable of doing anything ”significant” has already been proven wrong, similar to your initial evaluation of him, when you ridiculed anyone that thought he was better than a backup. You’ve had an agenda against the kid since day one. You may know your stuff in general but I don’t take a thing you about book seriously.
I just found this article on SBT about Brandon Clark. I got excited as I read it. Maybe we should spend less time moaning and groaning over losing a QB we hardly saw play and look at the new #2 QB... I liked what I saw in his brief appearance last fall.
https://www.ndinsider.com/football/...cle_a0b3fd53-6409-5bb1-9bfc-bbba35712ace.html
https://www.ndinsider.com/football/...cle_a0b3fd53-6409-5bb1-9bfc-bbba35712ace.html
I think what doomed the 2015 team more than either strength and conditioning or defensive coaching was the sheer number of major injuries that robbed us of many key starters for multiple games.
“Ha, no. Kelly and everyone know now why they game planned wimbush as QB vs UM. The pressure Wimbush was under, book would have looked worse than clemson.
I didn't say it, you didn't say it, kelly said it. The only way ND was winning the game was with wimbush at QB, he had the characteristics needed to beat UM, and he did.”
I could care less that Kelly said it (which I highly doubt he said it the way your are spinning it btw) but as I said, I could care less. Our offense needed to be able to open up our running game w/ some semblance of a passing game, wimbush couldn’t do that, book could. You could see the difference and all you have to do is listen to what the wrs/tes were saying when the change was made. They knew he made our offense better. So you can speculate all you want about book not being able to beat Michigan, but I believe we scored 36 points a game in the regular season under book and and scored 23 points w/ wimbush against Michigan, ball st and vandy, so yes, I think it’s reasonable to think that we would’ve won w/ book and probably would’ve scored more points w/ him.
I didn't say it, you didn't say it, kelly said it. The only way ND was winning the game was with wimbush at QB, he had the characteristics needed to beat UM, and he did.”
I could care less that Kelly said it (which I highly doubt he said it the way your are spinning it btw) but as I said, I could care less. Our offense needed to be able to open up our running game w/ some semblance of a passing game, wimbush couldn’t do that, book could. You could see the difference and all you have to do is listen to what the wrs/tes were saying when the change was made. They knew he made our offense better. So you can speculate all you want about book not being able to beat Michigan, but I believe we scored 36 points a game in the regular season under book and and scored 23 points w/ wimbush against Michigan, ball st and vandy, so yes, I think it’s reasonable to think that we would’ve won w/ book and probably would’ve scored more points w/ him.
I don’t get this notion of the team not being willing to run an offense that suits his talents. The last time I really remember that was when Holtz tried to make Steve Beurlein (sp?) and later Ron Powlus, who were better suited as drop back passers, run the option.
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“You don't know that at all. Brian Kelly specifically said that ND felt they needed Brandon's elite running ability and escapabilty to beat Michigan in 2018, when asked about Ian Book and what changed between Brandon's time as a starter and their decision to make the switch to Ian.
You don't know that Ian Book would have beat Michigan badly any more than I would know if I was trying to convince you that he would have play as horrible as he did on the road in Ann Arbor this year. That's wild speculation on your behalf, that goes directly against what Brian Kelly speficially said about why they favored Brandon in that game.”
“wild speculation” to think that we could’ve won more convincingly w/ book? Lol. A bit dramatic, Ontario? No, it’s not “wild speculation” to think our offense would’ve fared better against Michigan since our offense was better overall w/ book than it was w/ wimbush. You’re acting as though book is some statue that can’t run too. Where this comes from I haven’t a clue. He’s an excellent runner so this notion that wimbush made plays in that game that book couldn’t have can be easily turned around and posed that book could’ve made some plays in the passing game that wimbush couldn’t have, no? And you can continue to bring up his horrible play in Ann Arbor, but no one was going to be able to throw as many times as we needed to and succeed that night, so you can continue to beat that game to death, but the weather was way more of a factor than anything that night whether you wanna admit it or not.
You don't know that Ian Book would have beat Michigan badly any more than I would know if I was trying to convince you that he would have play as horrible as he did on the road in Ann Arbor this year. That's wild speculation on your behalf, that goes directly against what Brian Kelly speficially said about why they favored Brandon in that game.”
“wild speculation” to think that we could’ve won more convincingly w/ book? Lol. A bit dramatic, Ontario? No, it’s not “wild speculation” to think our offense would’ve fared better against Michigan since our offense was better overall w/ book than it was w/ wimbush. You’re acting as though book is some statue that can’t run too. Where this comes from I haven’t a clue. He’s an excellent runner so this notion that wimbush made plays in that game that book couldn’t have can be easily turned around and posed that book could’ve made some plays in the passing game that wimbush couldn’t have, no? And you can continue to bring up his horrible play in Ann Arbor, but no one was going to be able to throw as many times as we needed to and succeed that night, so you can continue to beat that game to death, but the weather was way more of a factor than anything that night whether you wanna admit it or not.
Ron should have played at FL in the Fun N Gun. Pawlus was talented, just not an option QB. Just a matter of a kid picking in school and not a program. Not a bad pick, just what happened.
“We've seen Ian Book vs top defenses. Clemson, Georgia and Michigan set QB play vs top defenses back 50 years.”
More overblown nonsense from you. He played well enough to win against Georgia, played in a monsoon against Michigan and would’ve fared a lot better had it not been for at least 5 drops (key plays on at least three of them) against Clemson. You’ve had it in for him since he was inserted in the lineup.
More overblown nonsense from you. He played well enough to win against Georgia, played in a monsoon against Michigan and would’ve fared a lot better had it not been for at least 5 drops (key plays on at least three of them) against Clemson. You’ve had it in for him since he was inserted in the lineup.
Ummmm... Joe Burrow had to transfer because he was beat out at Ohio State. He thrived later. Justin Fields wasn't awarded the starting job over Jake Fromm, when it's obvious that he's a hell of a lot better. He just doesn't happen to fit into the Georgia offense.
Brian Kelly has a way he wants the offense ran. Ian Book facilitates that. Phil would be much more comfortable in an offense like what Ohio State runs. A lot of true read option progressions and deep down field play action off of it. Kelly routinely had Phil running the quick passing game offense that Ian ran in practice. That's not his game. Hence why I said "square peg in a round hole". Thensame thing happened with Burrow. Now I'm not saying Jurkovec will become Burrow, I'm just drawing the transfer comparison.
What's with this "well enough" crap? He touches the ball on every offensive snap and he led his offense to 17 points, while throwing 2 interceptions. If your suggestion is that the defense is somehow at fault for surrendering 23 points on the road at Georgia, I don't know what to say. It's modern football. The QB is BY FAR the most important player in the field. He has to play like it.
Shea Patterson made plays when asked to in that monsoon. Hung in for a nice TD throw and took a hit. Scrambled for key first downs. Why does Ian need you to excuse him for 8-25 in that game?
Was Ian's fumble at midfield against Clemson the fault of his receivers? Was his brutal overthrow to a wide open Boykin for a touchdown the fault of his receivers? Was his terrible miss to a wide open Boykin on a 4th down slant route route the fault of his receivers. Was his bad downfield miss to Finke on the option route deep in the Clemson red zone the fault of his receivers?.. Yeah, his receivers could have played better. The Claypool and Mack drops were not good. But none of that excuses how poorly and skittish Ian played in that game. Particularly in the first half when the game was still tightly contested.
I've been extremely fair to Ian Book this year. I've praised him when he's played well, but I'm not going to blow smoke up people's asses who try to tell me that he played well when he didn't.
Newsflash... He got a "go back to school" grade by the NFL as a senior. He doesn't impress anybody when the lights get bright and the competition gets tough. He had a legitimate NFL WR and a legitimate NFL tight end to pass to.this year as well. They made all kinds of plays for him. I don't want to hear any crap about the talent surrounding him.
Flat out, if Ian wants to be one of the best QB's in the country he has to play at the level he does vs Duke and Navy when he plays Clemson, Wisconsin and USC next year.. Nobody expects the exact same numbers in those game, because they understand the rise in level of competition but we (I at least) want a QB who we can define as better than "fine" and having played "well enough" in those games. How about "he was a star vs Wisconsin" and "he was the catalyst in beating Clemson"...? That would be a nice change.
This I don't understand. I figured ND had Ian Book throwing quick passes because he wasn't accurate enough with the long ball. I'd assume the ND coaching staff would work in plays that catered to the individual's strengths.
It's not about designing a couple plays. Did you see how Justin Fields looked last year at Georgia? They were incapable and unwilling to use his skill set. He went to Ohio State, in a better offensive fit and looked like a future #1 NFL Draft Pick. Phil ran for thousands of yards in high school. He was a gazelle. His strength is his ability to run the read option, make you pay with his legs and throw the ball, accurately, over your head when you commit extra defenders to the box and play cover 1 Simple, decisive passing schemes... It's the same recipe that they use at Ohio State. Kelly tried to make him into a pocket passer who would run Kelly's complex passing scheme. It wasn't a good fit. Much like it wasn't a good fit for Brandon Wimbush. You can't turn an athlete into a passer... Imagine National Championship Winning, ND great, Tony Rice trying to run ND's "dink and dunk", precision passing attack. He would have looked terrible. Because that's not his game. Kelly's offense is not "QB friendly". It requires a cerebral guy to run it. It's effectiveness is in its complexity, not in the athletes running it. That was the genius of Urban Meyer. He did simple things, at a high level, with exceptional athletes. It was extremely effective... Which is why he could win as long as he recruited. His Ohio State QB's were plug and play.
It's easier to do less with more than it is to do more with less..
Versus 10-2 repeatedly playing a QB who wets the bed under pressure and or against a great opponent?
The fact that all backups have been better than the starters under Brian Kelly tells me Phil just by that fact alone is better than Book.
But that dink and dunk has been modified to its current state from what used to be down field passing.
Kizer threw the ball downfield. Golson when not turning the ball over threw the ball down field.
Rees. Yep.
Wimbush......he tried.
Book can't make those throws. So in comes the 3 yard curl and sit down route.
Brian Kelly has no idea what the hell he's doing with the QB position but he thinks he does. That makes him twice as ignorant.
Why this is such a self inflicted wound is because it just happens to be the most important position on the field. In 2020 is more important than ever to the team's success...especially against the very best.
It's no mystery the biggest thing lacking under BK against top teams is the lack of offense.
It's playing offense terrified to fail. Explosive plays? No thanks. We'll safely nickel and dime the ball down the field throwing a bunch of 3 yard passes then an occasional back shoulder sideline throw.
The fact BK is all intertwined with the offense and is totally terrible at it will continue being more of the same.
Beat the weak and barely sniff the endzone against the great.
Hell even Oklahoma who played terribly against LSU scored points.
That's a huge problem. Sometimes even with a good defense you need to score tit for tat with the opponent.
We are NOT REMOTELY CLOSE TO PLAYING OFFENSE LIKE THAT.
As long as Brian Kelly is there our timid and tentative offense will continue.
Bottom line. People focus on is Book better than Phil. Well yeah, because Phil gets zero game chances. But Phil has much more potential than Ian. And you will see it once he lands far away from Kelly
1. sometimes it’s all about the fit or the situation. 2. And sometimes it’s all about getting game experience as some QBs are not practice players
Montana fit both of these and prospered when Devine has to put him in. “Had to”
he really prospered in the right situation. The west coast offense
And if he fails at his next spot like Crist, Golson, Zaire and Wimbush did, what will you say?
PJ didn't look very fast to me the limited times that we saw him but it ould have been the situation.
10 yards per carry in very limited attempts. I don't think he's a burner. I think like Trevor Lawrence, he's a 6'5 kid, whose stride chews up a lot of yardage in a hurry. Not comparing him to Lawrence in terms of skill, just size and stride.... My experience has been that guys like that don't always seem fast, but 10-15 yards later they leave you wondering how they gained so much ground.
