Painful ND losses
- Thread starter shooter1977
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I'm not making excuses. I said someone screwed up. It happens. You've said the mistake was inexcusable, which means you think Freeman should be fired. I can't get that exercised over it.
Yo Freeman is the H/C of a big time D1 program. The buck lies with his stupid a$$ with not having 11 players on Defense. The RB came onto to the field late in the clock, ND by rule allowed to late substitute. Two plays in a row. Yo stupid fvcken Freeman, you couldn't hold Ohio St at 3rd and 19 with 11 players. You think you can hold Ohio St with 10 at 1st & Goal from the one. Jesus Christ
Hartman is very good. But check out the Pac 12 QBs. Looks to me like at least 6 future All Pros there. Predict at least 3 will be Heisman finalists. Maybe all of them.
Which experienced, successful coach?
Kelly walked out and told the world that the school wouldn't commit to winning -- his perception, not reality, but it carries weight -- so you already have a bias on the part of those experienced, successful coaches against coming here since you can't win (according to the most recent job incumbent)...
And what so many conveniently forget is that we were in PERFECT position to hire the hottest coach available in 2005...a guy that coached here; that apparently respected and revered the kind of school we are; that talked about us as his dream job...and when that job materialized, he ran as far and as fast in another direction as he could, believing he couldn't be successful here. Now, whether you love or loath Urban Meyer, whether you think it was good or bad that he stayed away, the fact that even he, who believes in this place, wouldn't take the job tells me it's a tough sell. I'd prefer a young up-and-comer that wants to be here and believes in what the school is and represents than some guy who sees it as a job.
Urban Meyer was never coming to ND. His agent concocted a way sucker ND's leaders into believing they had a shot to hire him. It was just a ploy to get another million a year tacked onto his Florida contract.
There is no question that Kelly fooked us !
Which coach ?
The experienced head coach you search for after naming MF as your interim coach for 2022
I don’t know the details of the Meyer/ND courtship and subsequent negotiations, I wish I did, and I wish that they had tied the knot, but they didn’t so we had to pursue plan B
Definitely tough, if not impossible, to defend. But I'm not going to lose any sleep over it. Maybe a worse mistake was the decision to try the screen pass on our last possession. If we ran the ball, OSU would have probably had to call a timeout, which would have meant they wouldn't have had one after the grounding call and the game would have ended. But, if not for a great play by the OSU defender, that screen gets caught and goes for a first down or TD.
3rd and 19 never happens if we don’t throw an incomplete pass on our last possession.
When you look at it there were a dozen opportunities lost, but having only 10 players on the field at THE critical point in the game, not once, but twice and after a timeout is coaching malpractice at several levels
Are you questioning Jack Swarbrick? Do you know more than him? Whats your qualifications to be the AD?
The question still remains for you to answer, and answer these while you are at it: How much "experience" makes him experienced? I think we agree that we don't shop down the high-school aisle again, but how many years as a HC? What level? (MAC? Group of Five? Power Five?) How successful? What is your minimum W/L percentage to define as a successful coach?
Who would be the hire? Who would be willing to come to Notre Dame and fight the fights necessary? Again, you had the ideal (???) in Meyer, and he wouldn't come...who would?
I realize that everyone wants to point to the 10 man problem but to me it was the whole series. They were allowed to drive 65 yards with a young QB in around 1:30 including a 3rd and 19 conversion - just pure BS. Did they even have any timeouts left? That young QB they have is really, really good and actually outplayed Hartmann
He didn't outplay Hartman, GTFO with that. What they asked of Hartman, he was spot on. In the 2nd half ND was mixing up the run and the pass just perfectly.
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I read that the OSU QB was 10 out of 12 for 155 yards on 3rd down plays. That's pretty damn good for a kid making his first real start in an extremely hostile atmosphere. He's going to turn out to be a bigtime QB before the year is over
Give more credit to Egbuka for finding the right spots in zones; other times his speed made a difference. Thought he made a bigger difference than QB or Harrison.
Previous, successful HC experience !
You don't know until you declare that the position is open and then you vet the responders.
For you to take the position that no one was or would be available is beyond foolish.
You don’t know enough about the details to draw you questioning conclusion.
Kelly came here and resurrecting the program
”Notre Dame“ plus $ remains a very attractive destination !
Can't argue with you with this one. I read that both Egbuka and Harrison could both go in the 1st round in next year's NFL draft. They're going to be a nightmare going forward for Big Ten teams
YOU responded to me first. When YOU are wetting your pants over me responding to you, when YOU started this, YES, I am going to point out who responded first. You dope.
The topic of this thread is painful losses. I think my nomination qualified for most on this board.
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I may have missed it but I don't see the Michigan State fake field goal loss mentioned.
YOU responded to me first.
The topic of this thread is painful losses. I think my nomination qualified for most on this board.
You quoted me first, but either way, you’re onto the “he did it first” crybaby crap? Jesus dude, you’re a juvenile excuse mess at this point.
The Urban Meyer details are well known...go back through these forums (I suggest you search postings by Oldbender) if you want to learn them...
I have REPEATEDLY given Kelly his due, nothing more...he did bring the program back to life but decided be couldn't be good enough a coach to win here, so he went someplace easier...if you do your research on Meyer, you'll find the same thing happened there...
It's a VERY attractive destination for many coaches...but for the long-term successful and experienced ones, not so much I think...I know you see and define yourself as the tip of the spear in the defense of Notre Dame football, but you have to accept that other programs have advantages because of the things Notre Dame WON'T do in pursuit of a national championship. a fact that Chaseball and the Indysomething# can't or won't acknowledge.
Again, we have recent evidence of the perception that it is too hard to win at Notre Dame -- BK. We couldn't hold onto a coach that fit your description of desirable criteria...you suggest my conclusion that it would be difficult to hire an experienced successful coach is unreasonable, but no more so than your belief that one would come because of the opportunity and money...those exist elsewhere, AND in places where degrees and on-line courses are optional...
No one knows the details on why ND and Meyer didn’t tie the knot.
All of the accounts are pure speculation
I was critical of Kelly in 2012 as amongst other things I felt that he was inflexible, stubborn and committed to running his system irrespective of the abilities contained within his talent pool.
Kelly didn’t fit my description, but he was a significant step up from his predecessors
And yes, I refute your conclusion because ND hasn’t made an attempt to embark upon the path I referenced.
The losses hit harder when you have a good team. 2010 was Kelly's first season and the talent level just wasn't there yet. It still stings, but when you have a 7-5, 8-4 type team you move on quickly.
As I say, refer to older posts by Oldbender to get most informative and knowledgeable fact-based take on the Meyer hire (again, not rhyming on purpose)
As to your refuting my conclusion that Notre Dame has not embarked on the path you reference, I would suggest that no one knows whether it was considered and found unfeasible. For example, did Jack offer it to Freeman and have him reject taking a temporary job, only to, what, step back in a defensive coordinator position when an experienced, successful coach was named? Perhaps the calculus was based on keeping Freeman.
And again, I ask, give me two or three names that fit your description of successful and experienced,,,if this does not include other coaches who won national championships at lower levels of college football, conference championships at higher levels, including taking Group of Five teams to a Big Six bowl and then becoming the all-time leader in wins at, arguably, the greatest of all college football programs (btw, that's BK), who does fit your mold?
You have no more insight into Freeman's hiring than you suggest we had into Meyer's...fact is, there was considerably more reporting, therefore, publically known, on what went into the Meyer's pursuit than what went into the decision to hire Freeman...you just need to do your homework.
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Disappointments are going to happen when you make cheap inexperienced coaching hires. To some of us, this was obviously destined to happen the moment Freeman was hired over Fickell, Elko, and the plethora of better resume’d coaches. It became more obvious when lack of experience Parker and Ohio State’s pink slip (Al) were hired. Throw in I don’t recruit Golden, We don’t coach kids to catch balls O’Leary, and Bag of trash Biagi and you have to expect it.
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Elko? Compare and contrast resumes with Freeman's, please...
Let’s start with the fact that the timing of Kelly’s jumping ship put us in a very difficult position.
An interim coach was considered and rejected.
How would it have been unfeasible ?
Teams embark upon the path of naming interim coaches all of the time.
in fact Notre Dame had previously named an interim coach
Let’s start with the fact that dozens of assistant coaches and co-ordinators would have jumped at the opportunity to become the interim HC.
In terms of “who” would be interested in becoming the HC at ND, Wisconsin and other high profile programs seemed to have figured that out and I venture to say that a good number of coaches would have thrown their hats into the ring given ample time..
The dynamic between the two coaching hires is light years apart.
We know that Meyer was already a successful HC and that other schools were courting him, whereas MF wasn’t a successful HC and he wasn’t being courted to be a HC by other schools.
ND was forced into a corner with time constraints, but they could have named MF or some other candidate as interim HC, and then taken their time to search for a HC, just like Wisconsin and other schools did.
Not really, ND could have hired an interim HC for 2022 and then embarked on an extensive search for a permanent HC for 2023 and beyond.
It’s not that complicated, dozens and dozens of schools have successfully followed that protocol
