OT James Franklin

[BGI User 756]

They play that same osu team every year

Franklin doesn’t play an annual OSU team that contains that level. 2015 was spectacular in that regard, like UF.

And for sure didn’t face that with Mich or MSU his first 9 years

Franklin recruits lights out, has a lot of talent as well. Just can’t put it together.

 

[BGI User 756]

You can't have it both ways as it is not a buy game against TN State. If those NY6 bowl are not big wins then losing the same game would be no big deal.

As for Penn State, they have an identity problem. The Paterno era spanned @3 generations where they won a lot of games but often did lose the big game, moreso after they gave up independence. Franklin has dug them out of the crater where they win a lot of games but are still a clear 3rd fiddle in their own division.

I listed who they played. Memphis doesn’t do it for me, in spite of what the talking heads say or this board says. Lost to Kentucky, list to Arky, lost to USC. Had a great win against Wash. Utah had 3 losses

 

[Golson5]

Franklin doesn’t play an annual OSU team that contains that level. 2015 was spectacular in that regard, like UF.

And for sure didn’t face that with Mich or MSU his first 9 years

Franklin recruits lights out, has a lot of talent as well. Just can’t put it together.

Osu always has talent and that team did not makt the Playoffs or win a Title and they have done both of those things in other years

They play OSU every year, we do not

 

[mbd11]

Osu always has talent and that team did not makt the Playoffs or win a Title and they have done both of those things in other years

They play OSU every year, we do not

That particular OSU team was very talented, though. It was mostly the same team that had won it all the previous year. But they got upset by MSU, and it was a year where one loss kept them out of the Playoff.

 

[BGI User 756]

Osu always has talent and that team did not makt the Playoffs or win a Title and they have done both of those things in other years

They play OSU every year, we do not

Didn’t argue that we don’t play OSU every year. Quite an inflated take on your part. PSU has had 3 games to worry about each year - Mich, OSU, MSU. Pretty much 9 games were gimmes every year.

Franklin is 4-18 against the first two, (and Mich was so-so until the last 2 years as we agree). Franklin is 4-5 against MSU. 0fer against any SEC team. His signature win is against 10-2 Wash. that is not “very good”

That 2015 Buckeye team that was upset by MSU and knocked it out of the playoff ….had 5 first round picks (historically, most first rounders are Miami in 2004 and Bama in 2021 with 6). Edit: Guess who ND played in 2020?

OSU had 7 more chosen in rounds 2,3,4. Three more made teams as FAs. FIFTEEN players getting paid on Sunday from the draft eligible players on that team, in 2016 draft ONLY

The OsUy2017 draft had 3 first rounders and 6 chosen in the first 70 picks. The 2018 draft had 2 first rounders and 6 of the top 100. To summarize, that OSU team that played ND, and of the players that got snaps in that day…had 10 first rounders and 24 chosen in the first 4 rounds over the next three years. Some of the frosh that year included Nick Bosa, Terry McLaurin, Dwayne Haskins. I don’t recall another Buckeye team producing that many in one year.

Compare who ND played since Franklin at PSU

2014 - Mich, top 10 ASU, top 10 Stan, #2 FSU, #24 Ville, then LSU in bowl. SOS ND was 32, PSU was 53. Kelly > Franklin

2015 - Top 10 Stan and Clemson, top 15 GT and Temple. SOS ND = 8, PSU = 54. Kelly > Franklin

2016 - PSU finally has a difficult SOS at 12 to ND’s 28. Good year for Franklin. Franklin > Kelly

2017 - PSU SOS 5 and ND SOS 9. We played top 10 teams UGA, Miami, Stan and then LSU in bowl. PSU beat Mich (who was 5-4 in big 10), lost to OSU, MSU. Kelly > Franklin

2018 - ND beats #14 Mich, #7 Stan, #24 VT away, # 12 Cuse, USC. ND SOS 13, PSU 15. PSU loses to OSU, MICH, MSU and Kentucky
Kelly > Franklin

2019 - PSU loses to Minn and OSU. Beats Mich (ends up with 4 losses) and 7-6 MSU. ND loses to UGA and Mich. give it to Franklin as he beat Mich and we got throttled. Franklin > Kelly

2020 - Covid year, Franklin gets killed. 5 losses. ND SOS = 6, PSU = 26. Kelly > Franklin

2021 - PSU goes 7-6. Kelly > Franklin

Grouping Franklin in same tier as Kelly is a inaccurate. Kelly > Franklin by a bit

 

[BGI User 756]

That particular OSU team was very talented, though. It was mostly the same team that had won it all the previous year. But they got upset by MSU, and it was a year where one loss kept them out of the Playoff.

Exactly. See my post to Golson above

 

[Golson5]

That particular OSU team was very talented, though. It was mostly the same team that had won it all the previous year. But they got upset by MSU, and it was a year where one loss kept them out of the Playoff.

Yeah....They always have talent every year. That team only played 2 ranked teams all year and lost one of them.

They also only beat N Illinois by 7 and Indiana by 7

MSU and Oklahoma had 1 loss but MSU beat OSU and Oklahoma had a better sos

Thats OSU talent every year

 

[Golson5]

Didn’t argue that we don’t play OSU every year. Quite an inflated take on your part. PSU has had 3 games to worry about each year - Mich, OSU, MSU. Pretty much 9 games were gimmes every year.

Franklin is 4-18 against the first two, (and Mich was so-so until the last 2 years as we agree). Franklin is 4-5 against MSU. 0fer against any SEC team. His signature win is against 10-2 Wash. that is not “very good”

That 2015 Buckeye team that was upset by MSU and knocked it out of the playoff ….had 5 first round picks (historically, most first rounders are Miami in 2004 and Bama in 2021 with 6). Edit: Guess who ND played in 2020?

OSU had 7 more chosen in rounds 2,3,4. Three more made teams as FAs. FIFTEEN players getting paid on Sunday from the draft eligible players on that team, in 2016 draft ONLY

The OsUy2017 draft had 3 first rounders and 6 chosen in the first 70 picks. The 2018 draft had 2 first rounders and 6 of the top 100. To summarize, that OSU team that played ND, and of the players that got snaps in that day…had 10 first rounders and 24 chosen in the first 4 rounds over the next three years. Some of the frosh that year included Nick Bosa, Terry McLaurin, Dwayne Haskins. I don’t recall another Buckeye team producing that many in one year.

Compare who ND played since Franklin at PSU

2014 - Mich, top 10 ASU, top 10 Stan, #2 FSU, #24 Ville, then LSU in bowl. SOS ND was 32, PSU was 53. Kelly > Franklin

2015 - Top 10 Stan and Clemson, top 15 GT and Temple. SOS ND = 8, PSU = 54. Kelly > Franklin

2016 - PSU finally has a difficult SOS at 12 to ND’s 28. Good year for Franklin. Franklin > Kelly

2017 - PSU SOS 5 and ND SOS 9. We played top 10 teams UGA, Miami, Stan and then LSU in bowl. PSU beat Mich (who was 5-4 in big 10), lost to OSU, MSU. Kelly > Franklin

2018 - ND beats #14 Mich, #7 Stan, #24 VT away, # 12 Cuse, USC. ND SOS 13, PSU 15. PSU loses to OSU, MICH, MSU and Kentucky
Kelly > Franklin

2019 - PSU loses to Minn and OSU. Beats Mich (ends up with 4 losses) and 7-6 MSU. ND loses to UGA and Mich. give it to Franklin as he beat Mich and we got throttled. Franklin > Kelly

2020 - Covid year, Franklin gets killed. 5 losses. ND SOS = 6, PSU = 26. Kelly > Franklin

2021 - PSU goes 7-6. Kelly > Franklin

Grouping Franklin in same tier as Kelly is a inaccurate. Kelly > Franklin by a bit

By a bit lol...

Exactly very close, same tier. Very good not elite

 

[BGI User 756]

By a bit lol...

Exactly very close, same tier. Very good not elite

Of course you will ignore the data

Kelly very good, not elite

Franklin good, not very good

 

[Golson5]

Of course you will ignore the data

Kelly very good, not elite

Franklin good, not very good

The data says different. 3 NY6 wins to 0. BK made cfp twice and bcs and got smashed each time. Both have 0 playoff or NCs. Both struggle against top 5 and top 10 teams.

Franklin took over a worse situation. Franklin won at Vanderbilt which is harder than at Cincy.

They are pretty much the same. Positives and negative for each person. Franklin is younger. Kelly has more seasons under his belt

 

[tbonesays]

Of course you will ignore the data

Kelly very good, not elite

Franklin good, not very good

Do you posit that Brian Kelly would have better results than Franklin playing the Big2 of the BUG every year? IT seems from your history, Kelly lost to Bama/Clemson/UGA less often because he played them less often.

 

[BGI User 756]

Do you posit that Brian Kelly would have better results than Franklin playing the Big2 of the BUG every year? IT seems from your history, Kelly lost to Bama/Clemson/UGA less often because he played them less often.

Bama (2012 and 2020) /Clemson (2018)/ UGA were better teams when Kelly coached against them, as compared to Franklin coaching against Mich from 2014-2020 and MSU from 2014. He is 3-8 against Mich and 4-5 against MSU.

Comparing OSU is a legit argument. Especially their 2015 team and 2019 teams. The other years, not so much

OSU 2014 lost to VT and almost lost to Navy, they weren’t the powerhouse Bama teams I mentioned above. OSU 2016 was shutout 31-0 by Clemson. 2017 team lost to Okie and Iowa. 2018 lost to Purdue. 2020 team lost to Bama by 30. 2021 team lost to Oregon and Mich, 2022 team lost to Mich and UGA

 

[Pennick4]

Anyone remember when IIO stumped for ND to fire Kelly and hire this guy as Head Coach at ND

What a special moment

View embedded media

IIO was a big Lincoln Riley fan as well. Not surprised he hasn't come around lately. 😜

 

[BGI User 756]

The data says different. 3 NY6 wins to 0. BK made cfp twice and bcs and got smashed each time. Both have 0 playoff or NCs. Both struggle against top 5 and top 10 teams.

Franklin took over a worse situation. Franklin won at Vanderbilt which is harder than at Cincy.

They are pretty much the same. Positives and negative for each person. Franklin is younger. Kelly has more seasons under his belt

Tye data does not say different. It’s a lazy take and you know it.

Franklin took over a worse situation than Kelly, but Bill O’Brien did the heavy lifting at PSU. Bill went 8-4 and 7-5 the first 2 penalized years, and recruited some nice talent, even finishing in top 20 in recruiting rankings. Franklin got all schollies restored before he coached and landed the # 6 class within a year.

When Franklin was at Vandy, in year 1 he beat Elon, UConn, Army, 5-7 UK, 6-7 WF, and 2 win Ole Miss. Nobody worth a crap.

In year 2, he beat Presbyterian, 5-7 Mizzou, 3-9 Auburn who was 0-8 in the SEC, UMass, 2-10 UK, 7-6 Ole Miss, 5-7 UT who was 1-7 in the SEC, 5-7 WF, and 7-6 NC State. Beat one team over .500.

In year 3 it was Austin Peay, UMass, UAB, 8-5 UGA, 4-8 UF, 2-10 UK, 5-7 UT, 4-8 WF, and 8-5 Houston. Two teams above .500.

At PSU he is 4-18 against MICH and OSU and 4-5 against MSU. 1-2 against NW. From SEC in bowl games he lost to UGA, lost to Kentucky, lost to Arky. Didn’t Kelly beat LSU twice?

Also, in bowl games he lost to USC, beat 3 loss Washington and 3 loss Utah, which I agree were solid wins; also beat Memphis (one of your acclaimed NY6 wins) which moves no needles. NO WAY THOSE TEAMA AS GOOD AS 2012/2020 Bama Or 2018 Clemson or 2015 OSU.

Franklin is fools gold.

 

[tbonesays]

Bama (2012 and 2020) /Clemson (2018)/ UGA were better teams when Kelly coached against them, as compared to Franklin coaching against Mich from 2014-2020 and MSU from 2014. He is 3-8 against Mich and 4-5 against MSU.

Comparing OSU is a legit argument. Especially their 2015 team and 2019 teams. The other years, not so much

OSU 2014 lost to VT and almost lost to Navy, they weren’t the powerhouse Bama teams I mentioned above. OSU 2016 was shutout 31-0 by Clemson. 2017 team lost to Okie and Iowa. 2018 lost to Purdue. 2020 team lost to Bama by 30. 2021 team lost to Oregon and Mich, 2022 team lost to Mich and UGA

Yes most of those years the SEC/ACC champion was better than the BUG champion which producted a few boring playoff games. But all were a stone wall in front of the 2nd tier team trying to get into the top 4. My question was, whether Brian Kelly has better results trying to get past the anOSU/UM/MSU? Does he just lose the game by fewer points and still miss the CFP?

 

[Golson5]

Tye data does not say different. It’s a lazy take and you know it.

Franklin took over a worse situation than Kelly, but Bill O’Brien did the heavy lifting at PSU. Bill went 8-4 and 7-5 the first 2 penalized years, and recruited some nice talent, even finishing in top 20 in recruiting rankings. Franklin got all schollies restored before he coached and landed the # 6 class within a year.

When Franklin was at Vandy, in year 1 he beat Elon, UConn, Army, 5-7 UK, 6-7 WF, and 2 win Ole Miss. Nobody worth a crap.

In year 2, he beat Presbyterian, 5-7 Mizzou, 3-9 Auburn who was 0-8 in the SEC, UMass, 2-10 UK, 7-6 Ole Miss, 5-7 UT who was 1-7 in the SEC, 5-7 WF, and 7-6 NC State. Beat one team over .500.

In year 3 it was Austin Peay, UMass, UAB, 8-5 UGA, 4-8 UF, 2-10 UK, 5-7 UT, 4-8 WF, and 8-5 Houston. Two teams above .500.

At PSU he is 4-18 against MICH and OSU and 4-5 against MSU. 1-2 against NW. From SEC in bowl games he lost to UGA, lost to Kentucky, lost to Arky. Didn’t Kelly beat LSU twice?

Also, in bowl games he lost to USC, beat 3 loss Washington and 3 loss Utah, which I agree were solid wins; also beat Memphis (one of your acclaimed NY6 wins) which moves no needles. NO WAY THOSE TEAMA AS GOOD AS 2012/2020 Bama Or 2018 Clemson or 2015 OSU.

Franklin is fools gold.

Yes. Everything you said there was preetty much similar to Kelly

 

[TPirish]

Brian Kelly did a lot better at Notre Dame than James Franklin has done at Penn State.

Wrong. Brian Kelly has NEVER won a NY6 bowl game in his LIFE. And Franklin is a much better recruiter than lazy Brian Kelly. And I don't think much of Franklin. But he's better than Kelly. And LSU thought so too, as Franklin was their first choice to be their head coach. Not their fourth.

 

[TPirish]

Brian Kelly is one of 7 head coaches to play in two 4-team CFB Playoffs in its ten year existence. So I think of Brian Kelly a bit different than James Franklin, who is 0-10.

0-10.

Brian Kelly has NEVER won a major bowl game/playoff game in his life. In fact, he's never come close to winning any of those. Spin away.

 

[notredamerises23]

Wrong. Brian Kelly has NEVER won a NY6 bowl game in his LIFE. And Franklin is a much better recruiter than lazy Brian Kelly. And I don't think much of Franklin. But he's better than Kelly. And LSU thought so too, as Franklin was their first choice to be their head coach. Not their fourth.

Franklin has had undefeated regular seasons? Has made the CFP? BCS championship game? What if we played in a NY6 game in these years?

 

[Golson5]

Franklin has had undefeated regular seasons? Has made the CFP? BCS championship game? What if we played in a NY6 game in these years?

Depends on who we would have played.

 

[TPirish]

Franklin has had undefeated regular seasons? Has made the CFP? BCS championship game? What if we played in a NY6 game in these years?

The fact of the matter is Kelly has never even won a major bowl in his career. And that includes getting absolutely embarrassed in 2012, 2018, and 2020. He also got embarrassed in 2015 against Ohio State.