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OT: Death, Taxes and Lebron James

“So lets take your metric:
Combined winning Lebron has most playoff wins, most playoff series wins, 4 titles 4 Finals MVPs (should really have 5.) Has 2 game 7 Finals masterpieces,
Overall bball skill: Lebron #1 all time scorer never ave below 25 ppg. Only player to be top 5 in both ast and points and the next closest isnt even in top 30. Has an outside chance of finishing top 20 in rebs. 4 regular season MVPs 20 All NBA's
So by your own criteria Lebron is the GOAT.”

All you did was list stats that have been accumulated over 20 years. I said that if you talk about longevity, there’s no one that has played at that level for so long, but there have been players, imo, that have been better overall players during their primes. So no, going by my criteria, Lebron is top 10.
Winning a Title, Finals MVPs, regular season MVPs is not an accumulation stat. That's in his prime. He should have about 8 MVPs during his prime

If you look at longevity, only Kareem is in his category. If you're looking at prime, there's maybe 5 guys in his category. Put them both together and its almost impossible to rank him outside of the top 3
 
That's why I place LeBron top 5. After MJ, Magic Johnson, and Kareem. You are correct.
I have Magic 4th on my all time list but when you are talking just peak, I guess you don't include defense in the peak of their careers. Because Lebron was one of the best and most versatile defenders in the League while being obviously great on Offense while Magic was just average on Defense. I think both sides of the court should matter but that's just me
 
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“its almost impossible to rank him outside of the top 3”

For you maybe.
 
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I have Magic 4th on my all time list but when you are talking just peak, I guess you don't include defense in the peak of their careers. Because Lebron was one of the best and most versatile defenders in the League while being obviously great on Offense while Magic was just average on Defense. I think both sides of the court should matter but that's just me
Magic Johnson gets the nod for me over Lebron because of his skill set and who he is.
 
As for Kareem, he was a shell of himself towards the very end, Lebron is still great now. I’d say maybe Stockton and Malone both had long elite careers but no one has done it longer than lebrenda.
 
Magic was incredible, sjb. He’s top three for me, no doubt. Hated him as a Celtic fan, btw.
 
As for Kareem, he was a shell of himself towards the very end, Lebron is still great now. I’d say maybe Stockton and Malone both had long elite careers but no one has done it longer than lebrenda.
Yeah it's Lebron and Kareem 1, 2 for longevity. Karl probably right up there in the top 5
 
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Magic Johnson gets the nod for me over Lebron because of his skill set and who he is.
His skill set lacked the defense of Lebron and he couldn't shoot like Lebron. Like I said, he's number 4 for me but you said skill set and those are 2 important part of a players skill set and hes not at Lebrons level in either. Or scoring.

Who he is is irrelevant. That's an odd statement
 
& Stockton too. He led the 90s in cumulative fg%, ft%, 3pt%. He led the jazz to 5 western conf finals, 2 finals and they ever got near missing the playoffs in a deep west. He’s also the all time assists and steals leader. He’s underrated.
 
His skill set lacked the defense of Lebron and he couldn't shoot like Lebron. Like I said, he's number 4 for me but you said skill set and those are 2 important part of a players skill set and hes not at Lebrons level in either. Or scoring.

Who he is is irrelevant. That's an odd statement
Nothing odd about it. I watched Magic play his entire career. Same with LeBron.

IMO, Magic Johnson is the better basketball player.
 
Nothing odd about it. I watched Magic play his entire career. Same with LeBron.

IMO, Magic Johnson is the better basketball player.
Thats fine. But you said who he is, like that means something. Thats an odd statement. Who he is doesnt mean anything when comparing the players.
 
Thats fine. But you said who he is, like that means something. Thats an odd statement. Who he is doesnt mean anything when comparing the players.
You ignored skill set. That was mentioned first.
 
You ignored skill set. That was mentioned first.
Yeah remember I brought it up first and directly. You didn't respond. I said Lebron was the much better defender, shooter and scorer.

You said skill set and who he is. Which means nothing and was an odd statement.
 
Anthony Edwards is the real deal. He should be fun to watch the next decade. Man is he good
 
Lebron played the soon to be 3 time MVP to a draw at 39 and as great as Ant Edwards was tonight (btw looks like a carbon copy of MJ) it was Naz Reid won that game in the 4th. In the new NBA you better have more than a big 2/3. Teammates matter
 
Lebron played the soon to be 3 time MVP to a draw at 39 and as great as Ant Edwards was tonight (btw looks like a carbon copy of MJ) it was Naz Reid won that game in the 4th. In the new NBA you better have more than a big 2/3. Teammates matter
They wouldn't have been in the game if it wasn't for Edwards. That was his game. He got it done. Both sides of the court

Ant has a lot of MJ, Kobe and Dwade in him
 
I knew that Minnesota would give Denver all they could handle. I also said that edwards was the closest I've seen to Jordan. But, I don’t see a game from Reid like that again & they needed every bit of it to win. They have the lead so they’re probably gonna win the series but it’s gonna be a dogfight. Best series of the playoffs maybe including finals, but probably very similar to wolves/nuggets Celtics finals. Am I not giving Okla city enough credit? We shall see. The wc finals will be great. Those four are the best in the nba right now. Too bad one of them will be gone after this series.
 
They wouldn't have been in the game if it wasn't for Edwards. That was his game. He got it done. Both sides of the court

Ant has a lot of MJ, Kobe and Dwade in him
Not taking anything away from Ant he was awesome, but Naz scored 10 straight & had 14 in the 4th. He was clutch when Minnesota needed a player to step up. Without Naz much like Porter & Gordon last series Minnesota loses game 1. So much of a superstars legacy is determine by role players.
 
I knew that Minnesota would give Denver all they could handle. I also said that edwards was the closest I've seen to Jordan. But, I don’t see a game from Reid like that again & they needed every bit of it to win. They have the lead so they’re probably gonna win the series but it’s gonna be a dogfight. Best series of the playoffs maybe including finals, but probably very similar to wolves/nuggets Celtics finals. Am I not giving Okla city enough credit? We shall see. The wc finals will be great. Those four are the best in the nba right now. Too bad one of them will be gone after this series.
Denver is really missing Brown & even J Green off the bench. They were so important to their success last year. Jackson is way to inconsistant and a Defensive liability. Their starters are logging to many minutes. The biggest question is can the Twolves handle success now that they have control of the series.
 
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They wouldn't have been in the game if it wasn't for Edwards. That was his game. He got it done. Both sides of the court

Ant has a lot of MJ, Kobe and Dwade in him
He’s an elite offensive talent, but I was equally impressed with his defensive effort and effectiveness. He literally took Murray out of the game early on, which seemed to rattle Denver. His jumper reminds me of Kobe, but his overall play reminds me more of Wade. Regardless, heady company and an evolving annual all star.
 
He’s an elite offensive talent, but I was equally impressed with his defensive effort and effectiveness. He literally took Murray out of the game early on, which seemed to rattle Denver. His jumper reminds me of Kobe, but his overall play reminds me more of Wade. Regardless, heady company and an evolving annual all star.
Yeah he loves defense. He takes it personally and tries to sit down whoever gets it rolling.
 
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The flopper
 
Yeah he loves defense. He takes it personally and tries to sit down whoever gets it rolling.
Only saw Minn play twice this season, both loses to my Sacramento Kings who scored 124 each game. There’s no way I would have thought Minn capable of playing this kind of defense. And Denver’s failings in this series are not limited to lack of depth this year; Their starters are getting their collective asses kicked.
 
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Only saw Minn play twice this season, both loses to my Sacramento Kings who scored 124 each game. There’s no way I would have thought Minn capable of playing this kind of defense. And Denver’s failings in this series are not limited to lack of depth this year; Their starters are getting their collective asses kicked.
Somewhere the LA Lakers are scratching their heads.
 
Somewhere the LA Lakers are scratching their heads.
You mean what if they were quicker, more athletic, and fully committed to playing a swarming defense for four full quarters? Not to mention lack of bench, three point shooting, etc…. I think any team with Davis and James can be dangerous in a best of three series or play in game, but I don’t think they have the right pieces to compete with the upper echelon teams in the West over a 7 game series.
 
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In Denver’s defense, Minnesota is hacking the shit of the nuggets and is getting away w/ murder at times. But Denver is playing soft. They need to match their physicality if they wanna try and make this a series. Edwards is a handful, it won’t be easy.
 
He wins the longevity award and the dominance in peak with anyone as well.

4 regular season MVPs but probably should be about 8. That has nothing to do with longevity
Mike had more in much less time and shoulda coulda woulda. Lebron gets the Emmit Smith award. NOBODY thinks MJ is outside the Top 2, many have Lebron outside the Top 5.

This isn’t an argument, MJ is the GOAT. Or is Cam still going round 2/3 and better than Morrison? Or is Brandon Joseph running a Sub 4.5 or is Estime elite.

You might gain some credibility if you could own up.
 
Mike had more in much less time and shoulda coulda woulda. Lebron gets the Emmit Smith award. NOBODY thinks MJ is outside the Top 2, many have Lebron outside the Top 5.

This isn’t an argument, MJ is the GOAT. Or is Cam still going round 2/3 and better than Morrison? Or is Brandon Joseph running a Sub 4.5 or is Estime elite.

You might gain some credibility if you could own up.
Only haters have him outside of the top 5. No one who really knows basketball says that. Only trolls

Yes Estime was elite in college, no question

Cam was better than Ben last year. Never said he would get drafted higher
 
Definitely in the conversation for sure. He was not an abject failure. What he accomplished in baseball was actually very impressive. He hadnt played in over 13 years

How would those guys do if they took off 13 years in one of those sports? My guess is pretty terrible.

So not a fair argument at all

Absolutely one of the greater athletes of all time
Well stated.
 
He shouldnt have been an NFL all star though. He got their on reputation and because his name was Bo Jackson
I agree. He had a better case for pro bowl in 89 where he almost had a 1000 yard season & ave 5.5 yards per carry in 11 games. 1990 when he actually was named to the pro bowl he only had 650 yard on just 125 carries.
 
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