OT Clemson Fan Here / Notre Dame / Clemson / ACC

[95Beaufain]

Lifelong Clemson fan here. I am happy to have joined the premium Notre Dame rivals site. After the past few seasons I have found myself naturally more interested in Notre Dame athletics. This year especially, the ACC was truly privileged to have the Irish in the conference. We played a remarkable game in November and despite what you heard from national media, the win should not be diminished. Our QB threw for 400 yards, so that’s about all you can expect from a starter.

I am truly enjoying my new found interest in the Irish. While I have attended one game in South Bend before - Nevada -(2009?) it would have truly been special to see my tigers in South Bend this past year. Clemson people were really looking forward.
I know this question gets batted around a lot with ND membership status in the ACC. I wanted to know what the fans truly think. Would you like to play in the ACC? Or, do you like the independent status with NBC and some traditional, permanent rivals (USC, Navy, etc) mixed in with the home and home variable opponents? Would you prefer a conference, but not ours?

curious to hear your thoughts. Thanks again and I hope I am not stepping on any toes. I will be respectful while posting on this forum.

 

[Ara64]

My preference would be for ND football to become truly independent; that's not possible with all the other sports programs needing a conference. Therefore I like the current agreement with the ACC. I could care less about winning a conference championship. I enjoyed our games against Clemson this season. I'm sorry the Clemson fans didn't get the chance to attend the game last year. See ya down the road and thanks for stopping by.

 

[Juniper_Run]

Thanks for stopping by!

The preference among the Irish fans I know is strongly toward staying independent. There are some exceptions, though, and I'm sure you'll here from them in this thread! I personally think that our current 5-game agreement with the ACC is great. It allows us to have decent opponents late in the season when most programs aren't open to playing OOC games. It's a good fit for our University as well, even if we aren't in the traditional ACC geographic footprint.

The main sticking point for me is scheduling. We love our USC rivalry. We're kind of stuck with our Navy rivalry. If we can maintain those 2 rivalries, play Clemson/FSU/Miami on a regular basis, and keep the flexibility to also schedule other great programs, why wouldn't we?

Others believe that a conference schedule would provide a better path to the playoffs, but I don't see it.

 

[95Beaufain]

Thanks for stopping by!

The preference among the Irish fans I know is strongly toward staying independent. There are some exceptions, though, and I'm sure you'll here from them in this thread! I personally think that our current 5-game agreement with the ACC is great. It allows us to have decent opponents late in the season when most programs aren't open to playing OOC games. It's a good fit for our University as well, even if we aren't in the traditional ACC geographic footprint.

The main sticking point for me is scheduling. We love our USC rivalry. We're kind of stuck with our Navy rivalry. If we can maintain those 2 rivalries, play Clemson/FSU/Miami on a regular basis, and keep the flexibility to also schedule other great programs, why wouldn't we?

Others believe that a conference schedule would provide a better path to the playoffs, but I don't see it.

It makes sense. Financially, where are you with the NBC deal and how does it compare to the conference TV packages?

 

[Juniper_Run]

From what I understand, we would make more TV money with a conference contract than with our NBC deal. I don't know the numbers, though.

 

[NDSMC78]

I think you will find that most ND alums and fans want to remain independent. I certainly think that ND is better served by remaining independent. While there are some that think we should join the ACC for all sports, that group generally thinks that winning the ACC championship is some sort of goal worth pursuing, a vision that I don't share. By remaining independent, ND can continue to play a national schedule. In recent years, we have played home and homes with Oklahoma, Texas, Georgia, Michigan, not to mention Clemson. It would be significantly more difficult to schedule games like these if we were to join the ACC.
In the event that ND were to join a conference, it would be the ACC for sure. ND has much more in common with the ACC schools than, say, the Big 10. The Big 10 is full of large land grant schools which focus on graduate education. The ACC, on the other hand, is comprised mostly of smaller schools which focus on undergraduate studies.

 

[twalsh]

It makes sense. Financially, where are you with the NBC deal and how does it compare to the conference TV packages?

We would make more money as part of a conference TV package than we do with NBC. The decision to stay independent is not an economic one.

 

[burmafrd1943]

We would make significantly more of course with a conference deal.

However we do not need to make more.

I want to remain independent and play a national schedule. Yet at the same time I loved playing the ACC this year.

A conference championship is nice but that is all. At ND we have only ever been satisfied with a NC.

I fear we might get complacent in a conference.

There are certainly pros and cons. Now if we could have say 5 national games and then 7 ACC games I would be fine with that.

 

[burmafrd1943]

By the way, Clemson and virtually all their fans have shown to be a class act.

Of course a troll or two will always show up but then we have several permanent trolls here anyway.

 

[Drinking The Green Koolaid]

As several of the previous posts indicate, most ND fans would probably like to see ND retain its independence in football, because that independence is firmly rooted in ND's football history. To understand that sentiment and appreciate where it comes from, a brief recitation of some Notre Dame football history might be helpful. Back in the 1920s, a few years after Knute Rockne became ND's head coach, ND attempted to join the Big 10 conference, but was essentially blackballed by Fielding Yost, the AD at the University of Michigan, and to a lesser extent by Amos Alonzo Stagg, the AD at the University of Chicago. Yost's objections to ND becoming a member of the Big 10 were fueled in part by some bad blood resulting from the first major football upset that ND had pulled off a few years earlier, the defeat of UM in 1909, and by Yost's virulent anti-Catholic bigotry. It sounds like a ridiculous notion in modern times to hear talk of anti-Catholic bigotry, but it was very real back in those times. The Ku Klux Klan was flourishing in those days (especially in Indiana, where Notre Dame is located), spreading its anti-Catholic bigotry far and wide. The KKK considered the Pope to be worse than Kaiser Wilhelm of Germany, and Yost apparently considered ND to be nothing but a bunch of "fish mongers." Not only did Yost lead the charge against ND being able to join the Big 10 conference, he was successful in persuading the ADs at other Big 10 schools to avoid scheduling ND as a non-conference opponent. After being blackballed by Yost from joining the Big 10, Rockne looked east and west and decided ND would take on all comers, and Notre Dame's barnstorming history rose from the disappointment of being denied admission to the Big 10. The ND/USC intersectional rivalry, for example, was born from this history. ND has played USC in football every year since 1926, save for 3 years during WWII and the cancellation of the 2020 game due to the pandemic.
,
Because of that history, most ardent ND fans would like to see ND remain independent in football. The ACC has been very good for ND's basketball programs, and probably its other sport programs as well, but I am not sure it moves the needle for us in football (for recruiting, strength of schedule, finances, or otherwise). I enjoyed the pre-2020 arrangement, where we scheduled 5 ACC games each year in football. That gave us room to schedule some of our other traditional rivals. Though others here have expressed a different opinion, I can see some benefits to participating in a conference championship game, but obviously ND will need to join a conference in order for that to happen. That said, if Notre Dame finds itself in a position someday where it has no choice but to join a conference, I think the ACC is a good fit for us.

Thanks for stopping by 95Beaufain. Always nice to get a different perspective on things from fans of other programs, so long as the discussion is respectful. I have enjoyed our games with Clemson, painful as most of the games have been for the Irish. I have a lot of respect for Dabo, and his "bring your own guts" speech is a personal favorite of mine.

 

[NDSMC78]

As several of the previous posts indicate, most ND fans would probably like to see ND retain its independence in football, because that independence is firmly rooted in ND's football history. To understand that sentiment and appreciate where it comes from, a brief recitation of some Notre Dame football history might be helpful. Back in the 1920s, a few years after Knute Rockne became ND's head coach, ND attempted to join the Big 10 conference, but was essentially blackballed by Fielding Yost, the AD at the University of Michigan, and to a lesser extent by Amos Alonzo Stagg, the AD at the University of Chicago. Yost's objections to ND becoming a member of the Big 10 were fueled in part by some bad blood resulting from the first major football upset that ND had pulled off a few years earlier, the defeat of UM in 1909, and by Yost's virulent anti-Catholic bigotry. It sounds crazy in this day and age to hear talk of anti-Catholic bigotry, but it was very real back in those times. The Ku Klux Klan was flourishing in those days (especially in Indiana, where Notre Dame is located), spreading its anti-Catholic bigotry far and wide. The KKK considered the Pope to be worse than Kaiser Wilhelm of Germany, and Yost apparently considered ND to be nothing but a bunch of "fish mongers." Not only did Yost lead the charge against ND being able to join the Big 10 conference, he was successful in persuading the ADs at other Big 10 schools to avoid scheduling ND as a non-conference opponent. After being blackballed by Yost from joining the Big 10, Rockne looked east and west and decided ND would take on all comers, and Notre Dame's barnstorming history was born. The ND/USC intersectional rivalry, for example, was born from this history. ND has played USC in football every year since 1926, save for 3 years during WWII and the cancellation of the 2020 game due to the pandemic.
,
Because of that history, most ardent ND fans would like ND to remain independent in football. The ACC has been very good for ND's basketball programs, and probably its other sport programs as well, but I am not sure it moves the needle for us in football (for recruiting, strength of schedule, finances, or otherwise). I enjoyed the pre-2020 arrangement, where we scheduled 5 ACC games each year in football. That gave us room to schedule some of our other traditional rivals. Though others here have expressed a different opinion, I can see some benefits to participating in a conference championship game, but obviously ND will need to join a conference in order for that to happen. That said, if Notre Dame finds itself in a position someday where it has no choice but to join a conference, I think the ACC is a good fit for us.

Thanks for stopping by Beaufain. Always nice to get a different perspective on things from fans of other programs, so long as the discussion is respectful. I have enjoyed our games with Clemson, painful as most of the games have been for the Irish. I have a lot of respect for Dabo, and his "bring your own guts" speech is a personal favorite of mine.

Really an excellent post. Lays out the history in sufficient detail, and succinctly explains the rationale why most prefer to remain independent.

 

[Ara64]

The figures show that a normal year ND brings in 7 million as a partial member of the ACC, 15 million from NBC, and 3.19 million from the Conference Playoff. Also any game carried on another network that doesn't involve an ACC opponent ND gets paid for that too. In the 2019 season ND played Ga (CBS), Michigan (ABC), and Stanford (FOX) and that's another 3 or so million dollars. ND's not doing too bad as an independent these days. It appears in 2019 the ACC teams brought in 29 million a piece and ND roughly brought in 28 million and kept control of 58% (7of 12 games ND got to chose their opponent) of their schedule.

You forgot that Ohio State joined with Michigan to keep ND out of the conference in 1925.

BlueAndGold - Why The Agreement To Split ACC And NBC TV Revenue Could Help Notre Dame

The league’s money-sharing model is a win for the Irish even if overall amount is down due to pandemic complications.

notredame.rivals.com

.

 

[Drinking The Green Koolaid]

The figures show that a normal year ND brings in 7 million as a partial member of the ACC, 15 million from NBC, and 3.19 million from the Conference Playoff. Also any game carried on another network that doesn't involve an ACC opponent ND gets paid for that too. In the 2019 season ND played Ga (CBS), Michigan (ABC), and Stanford (FOX) and that's another 3 or so million dollars. ND's not doing too bad as an independent these days. It appears in 2019 the ACC teams brought in 29 million a piece and ND roughly brought in 28 million and kept control of 58% (7of 12 games ND got to chose their opponent) of their schedule.

You forgot that Ohio State joined with Michigan to keep ND out of the conference in 1925.

BlueAndGold - Why The Agreement To Split ACC And NBC TV Revenue Could Help Notre Dame

The league’s money-sharing model is a win for the Irish even if overall amount is down due to pandemic complications.

notredame.rivals.com

.

I have read in multiple sources that Fielding Yost led the charge against ND, but it is certainly possible that OSU was standing shoulder to shoulder with him. I recall reading somewhere that the final vote came down 6-4 against ND being allowed to join the Big 10. Not sure who all the "nays" might have been, except I know that UM and the University of Chicago were the most outspoken opponents.

 

[irish4life767]

From what I understand, we would make more TV money with a conference contract than with our NBC deal. I don't know the numbers, though.

Actually, ND loses out on money by being independent. As far as playing on national TV every weekend that's not as big a deal as it was with streaming and so many stations broadcasting games. The reason ND has been so adamant staying independent was our history. At one time ND was blocked from joining a conference. Specifically the B10. ND was forced to barnstorm the country looking for opponents. It's how ND became a national team. I"m sure ND will be forced sooner or later to join a conference, and I'm sure it will be the ACC.

 

[TDIrish27]

Agreed

It will happen after Jack retires

 

[mmboys07]

Lifelong Clemson fan here. I am happy to have joined the premium Notre Dame rivals site. After the past few seasons I have found myself naturally more interested in Notre Dame athletics. This year especially, the ACC was truly privileged to have the Irish in the conference. We played a remarkable game in November and despite what you heard from national media, the win should not be diminished. Our QB threw for 400 yards, so that’s about all you can expect from a starter.

I am truly enjoying my new found interest in the Irish. While I have attended one game in South Bend before - Nevada -(2009?) it would have truly been special to see my tigers in South Bend this past year. Clemson people were really looking forward.
I know this question gets batted around a lot with ND membership status in the ACC. I wanted to know what the fans truly think. Would you like to play in the ACC? Or, do you like the independent status with NBC and some traditional, permanent rivals (USC, Navy, etc) mixed in with the home and home variable opponents? Would you prefer a conference, but not ours?

curious to hear your thoughts. Thanks again and I hope I am not stepping on any toes. I will be respectful while posting on this forum.

Good question. As a Notre Dame Fan since 1964, my answer is no. This year has removed any doubt. Playing the same teams every year would be boring as hell, no matter what conference. No, I want ND to play as many teams, from as many different conferences as possible; while maintaing traditional rivalries with SC and a few others.

 

[95Beaufain]

As several of the previous posts indicate, most ND fans would probably like to see ND retain its independence in football, because that independence is firmly rooted in ND's football history. To understand that sentiment and appreciate where it comes from, a brief recitation of some Notre Dame football history might be helpful. Back in the 1920s, a few years after Knute Rockne became ND's head coach, ND attempted to join the Big 10 conference, but was essentially blackballed by Fielding Yost, the AD at the University of Michigan, and to a lesser extent by Amos Alonzo Stagg, the AD at the University of Chicago. Yost's objections to ND becoming a member of the Big 10 were fueled in part by some bad blood resulting from the first major football upset that ND had pulled off a few years earlier, the defeat of UM in 1909, and by Yost's virulent anti-Catholic bigotry. It sounds like a ridiculous notion in modern times to hear talk of anti-Catholic bigotry, but it was very real back in those times. The Ku Klux Klan was flourishing in those days (especially in Indiana, where Notre Dame is located), spreading its anti-Catholic bigotry far and wide. The KKK considered the Pope to be worse than Kaiser Wilhelm of Germany, and Yost apparently considered ND to be nothing but a bunch of "fish mongers." Not only did Yost lead the charge against ND being able to join the Big 10 conference, he was successful in persuading the ADs at other Big 10 schools to avoid scheduling ND as a non-conference opponent. After being blackballed by Yost from joining the Big 10, Rockne looked east and west and decided ND would take on all comers, and Notre Dame's barnstorming history rose from the disappointment of being denied admission to the Big 10. The ND/USC intersectional rivalry, for example, was born from this history. ND has played USC in football every year since 1926, save for 3 years during WWII and the cancellation of the 2020 game due to the pandemic.
,
Because of that history, most ardent ND fans would like to see ND remain independent in football. The ACC has been very good for ND's basketball programs, and probably its other sport programs as well, but I am not sure it moves the needle for us in football (for recruiting, strength of schedule, finances, or otherwise). I enjoyed the pre-2020 arrangement, where we scheduled 5 ACC games each year in football. That gave us room to schedule some of our other traditional rivals. Though others here have expressed a different opinion, I can see some benefits to participating in a conference championship game, but obviously ND will need to join a conference in order for that to happen. That said, if Notre Dame finds itself in a position someday where it has no choice but to join a conference, I think the ACC is a good fit for us.

Thanks for stopping by 95Beaufain. Always nice to get a different perspective on things from fans of other programs, so long as the discussion is respectful. I have enjoyed our games with Clemson, painful as most of the games have been for the Irish. I have a lot of respect for Dabo, and his "bring your own guts" speech is a personal favorite of mine.

I love this, by the way. I can’t believe I never knew about this, although it explains so much. Notre Dame and its “barnstorming” past. I printed this.
At Clemson, the consensus would welcome Notre Dame with open arms. It might be 95%. It may be 100%. I am glad to understand this incredible history. Thanks to all for the responses.

 

[NDSMC78]

I love this, by the way. I can’t believe I never knew about this, although it explains so much. Notre Dame and its “barnstorming” past. I printed this.
At Clemson, the consensus would welcome Notre Dame with open arms. It might be 95%. It may be 100%. I am glad to understand this incredible history. Thanks to all for the responses.

Thanks for stopping by. Posters who are fans of other schools who are interested in legitimate discussions of ND and CFB are always welcome here.

 

[Drinking The Green Koolaid]

It is truly an amazing and rich history. Fans of the Irish love that history. (But of course, loving and respecting that history is one of the reasons Irish fans get accused of "living in the past.") Football was very much a regional game back in its early days. While today it is commonplace, it was very unusual back in those days for a college team to play a school from another region of the country. A big part of that was simple logistics--for example, when Notre Dame played USC out on the West coast, the team had to board a train and travel for a couple of days just to get there.

It also helped that Knute Rockne was not only a great football coach (finishing with a career record of 105-12-5, still the highest winning percentage of any head football coach), but he was also a consummate salesman. Rockne was only 30 years old when he became the head coach at Notre Dame. Perhaps owing to his youth, he quickly understood and recognized that playing big games back east meant playing in front of the best sports writers in the country, and that meant national exposure for Notre Dame's football team. Think of some of ND's big games against Army, then a national power in football, that were played in New York. That is how it came to pass that Grantland Rice, then probably the preeminent sports writer in the country, came to watch Notre Dame play Army in the Polo Grounds in 1924, providing the inspiration for his iconic "Four Horsemen" story. America in the 1920s and 30s was then very much a country of immigrants, many of them going through tough times in the middle of the Depression, and Rockne was able to tap into that as well, starting up a legion of faithful fans that came to be known as the "subway alumni." Sadly, in 1931, at the age of just 43, Rockne died in a plane crash. Perhaps not coincidentally, he was flying to LA to take part in the production of a film called The Spirit of Notre Dame. In those days flying was still a somewhat dangerous activity, and Rockne's plane broke apart in flight shortly after it departed Kansas City, crashing into a field in the middle of farm country. I remember my grandfather telling me stories of how Rockne's death saddened the entire nation. I believe Rockne's funeral (attended by more than 100,000 people) was the first event ever broadcast live on national radio. That is the impact his death had on the country. Rockne is buried in a cemetery in South Bend, under a simple headstone, and many Irish fans (myself included) have made a pilgrimage there at some point in their lives to pay respect to the man that played such an important role in making Notre Dame football what it is today.

If you are really interested in learning more about Notre Dame football, there are many good books on the subject. Several years ago ESPN produced an excellent documentary on the history of Notre Dame football, called The American Game -- Notre Dame. (I find it almost funny to say that, because ESPN does not have a good reputation with many posters on this board.) The ESPN documentary still airs occasionally, but you can also stream it from their pay site.

Hopefully once this pandemic is over you can visit South Bend someday for a game with your beloved Tigers. Win or lose, I know you will enjoy the experience.

 

[NDSMC78]

It is truly an amazing and rich history. Fans of the Irish love that history. (But of course, loving and respecting that history is one of the reasons Irish fans get accused of "living in the past.") Football was very much a regional game back in its early days. While today it is commonplace, it was very unusual back in those days for a college team to play a school from another region of the country. A big part of that was simple logistics--for example, when Notre Dame played USC out on the West coast, the team had to board a train and travel for a couple of days just to get there.

It also helped that Knute Rockne was not only a great football coach (finishing with a career record of 105-12-5, still the highest winning percentage of any head football coach), but he was also a consummate salesman. Rockne was only 30 years old when he became the head coach at Notre Dame. Perhaps owing to his youth, he quickly understood and recognized that playing big games back east meant playing in front of the best sports writers in the country, and that meant national exposure for Notre Dame's football team. Think of some of ND's big games against Army, then a national power in football, that were played in New York. That is how it came to pass that Grantland Rice, then probably the preeminent sports writer in the country, came to watch Notre Dame play Army in the Polo Grounds in 1924, providing the inspiration for his iconic "Four Horsemen" story. America in the 1920s and 30s was then very much a country of immigrants, many of them going through tough times in the middle of the Depression, and Rockne was able to tap into that as well, starting up a legion of faithful fans that came to be known as the "subway alumni." Sadly, in 1931, at the age of just 43, Rockne died in a plane crash. Perhaps not coincidentally, he was flying to LA to take part in the production of a film called The Spirit of Notre Dame. In those days flying was still a somewhat dangerous activity, and Rockne's plane broke apart in flight shortly after it departed Kansas City, crashing into a field in the middle of farm country. I remember my grandfather telling me stories of how Rockne's death saddened the entire nation. I believe Rockne's funeral (attended by more than 100,000 people) was the first event ever broadcast live on national radio. That is the impact his death had on the country. Rockne is buried in a cemetery in South Bend, under a simple headstone, and many Irish fans (myself included) have made a pilgrimage there at some point in their lives to pay respect to the man that played such an important role in making Notre Dame football what it is today.

If you are really interested in learning more about Notre Dame football, there are many good books on the subject. Several years ago ESPN produced an excellent documentary on the history of Notre Dame football, called The American Game -- Notre Dame. (I find it almost funny to say that, because ESPN does not have a good reputation with many posters on this board.) The ESPN documentary still airs occasionally, but you can also stream it from their pay site.

Hopefully once this pandemic is over you can visit South Bend someday for a game with your beloved Tigers. Win or lose, I know you will enjoy the experience.

Another excellent post. As for books on ND football, the best, IMO, is Shake Down the Thunder by Murray Sperber. It is a marvelous telling of the history of ND football, and takes a pretty even handed approach. Well worth reading.

 

[Drinking The Green Koolaid]

Another excellent post. As for books on ND football, the best, IMO, is Shake Down the Thunder by Murray Sperber. It is a marvelous telling of the history of ND football, and takes a pretty even handed approach. Well worth reading.

Thanks. I don't recall if I have read that one. I'll check it out on Amazon. I am sure it will beat out Under the Tarnished Dome.

 

[REMND]

We Domers just love the variety in the schedule. If you include a bowl game, we typically play 4 of the power 5 conferences every year. We have a national schedule. It would be tough for us to limit that.

 

[Classic Irish]

It is truly an amazing and rich history. Fans of the Irish love that history. (But of course, loving and respecting that history is one of the reasons Irish fans get accused of "living in the past.") Football was very much a regional game back in its early days. While today it is commonplace, it was very unusual back in those days for a college team to play a school from another region of the country. A big part of that was simple logistics--for example, when Notre Dame played USC out on the West coast, the team had to board a train and travel for a couple of days just to get there.

It also helped that Knute Rockne was not only a great football coach (finishing with a career record of 105-12-5, still the highest winning percentage of any head football coach), but he was also a consummate salesman. Rockne was only 30 years old when he became the head coach at Notre Dame. Perhaps owing to his youth, he quickly understood and recognized that playing big games back east meant playing in front of the best sports writers in the country, and that meant national exposure for Notre Dame's football team. Think of some of ND's big games against Army, then a national power in football, that were played in New York. That is how it came to pass that Grantland Rice, then probably the preeminent sports writer in the country, came to watch Notre Dame play Army in the Polo Grounds in 1924, providing the inspiration for his iconic "Four Horsemen" story. America in the 1920s and 30s was then very much a country of immigrants, many of them going through tough times in the middle of the Depression, and Rockne was able to tap into that as well, starting up a legion of faithful fans that came to be known as the "subway alumni." Sadly, in 1931, at the age of just 43, Rockne died in a plane crash. Perhaps not coincidentally, he was flying to LA to take part in the production of a film called The Spirit of Notre Dame. In those days flying was still a somewhat dangerous activity, and Rockne's plane broke apart in flight shortly after it departed Kansas City, crashing into a field in the middle of farm country. I remember my grandfather telling me stories of how Rockne's death saddened the entire nation. I believe Rockne's funeral (attended by more than 100,000 people) was the first event ever broadcast live on national radio. That is the impact his death had on the country. Rockne is buried in a cemetery in South Bend, under a simple headstone, and many Irish fans (myself included) have made a pilgrimage there at some point in their lives to pay respect to the man that played such an important role in making Notre Dame football what it is today.

If you are really interested in learning more about Notre Dame football, there are many good books on the subject. Several years ago ESPN produced an excellent documentary on the history of Notre Dame football, called The American Game -- Notre Dame. (I find it almost funny to say that, because ESPN does not have a good reputation with many posters on this board.) The ESPN documentary still airs occasionally, but you can also stream it from their pay site.

Hopefully once this pandemic is over you can visit South Bend someday for a game with your beloved Tigers. Win or lose, I know you will enjoy the experience.

Although it was made in the mid-1980s, the film “Wake Up the Echoes” narrated by John Facenda is also a good history.

 

[tbonesays]

Lifelong Clemson fan here. I am happy to have joined the premium Notre Dame rivals site. After the past few seasons I have found myself naturally more interested in Notre Dame athletics. This year especially, the ACC was truly privileged to have the Irish in the conference. We played a remarkable game in November and despite what you heard from national media, the win should not be diminished. Our QB threw for 400 yards, so that’s about all you can expect from a starter.

I am truly enjoying my new found interest in the Irish. While I have attended one game in South Bend before - Nevada -(2009?) it would have truly been special to see my tigers in South Bend this past year. Clemson people were really looking forward.
I know this question gets batted around a lot with ND membership status in the ACC. I wanted to know what the fans truly think. Would you like to play in the ACC? Or, do you like the independent status with NBC and some traditional, permanent rivals (USC, Navy, etc) mixed in with the home and home variable opponents? Would you prefer a conference, but not ours?

curious to hear your thoughts. Thanks again and I hope I am not stepping on any toes. I will be respectful while posting on this forum.

Thank for stopping by our humble abode. We hope you enjoy your stay.

I pretty much agree (feels odd) with everything said above about the ND-ACC relationship, it is a good contractual relationship but I don't want it to be a marriage. I'll add:

- 'Exposure' in crucial regions such as Atlanta, Miami, and Virginia is vital for our future recruiting as the midwest does not produce the talent it did back in our golden age. In return those programs get another big game often the featured night game.

- But I am quite concerned that Disney-ESPN owns too much and controls too much of college football. Moreso now that they have chosen to become a political platform.

- There are a lot of core ACC members who are basketball first schools. The 2020 season showed how the week to week with them pales in comparison to playing football schools ND has a lot of history with (Navy, Stanford, Michigan State and others).

I am very interested in Clemson's ascendancy about 6 years ago. Do you dwell on the Rivals Clemson board on the regular or an independent site?

 

[Drinking The Green Koolaid]

Although it was made in the mid-1980s, the film “Wake Up the Echoes” narrated by John Facenda is also a good history.

Ah, John Facenda, aka "The Voice of God." I'll have to listen to it again, if for no other reason than to listen to John Facenda.

 

[burmafrd1943]

Ah, John Facenda, aka "The Voice of God." I'll have to listen to it again, if for no other reason than to listen to John Facenda.

His voice was incredible; and just as important he knew how to use it.

 

[BodiTheGreat]

Lifelong Clemson fan here. I am happy to have joined the premium Notre Dame rivals site. After the past few seasons I have found myself naturally more interested in Notre Dame athletics. This year especially, the ACC was truly privileged to have the Irish in the conference. We played a remarkable game in November and despite what you heard from national media, the win should not be diminished. Our QB threw for 400 yards, so that’s about all you can expect from a starter.

I am truly enjoying my new found interest in the Irish. While I have attended one game in South Bend before - Nevada -(2009?) it would have truly been special to see my tigers in South Bend this past year. Clemson people were really looking forward.
I know this question gets batted around a lot with ND membership status in the ACC. I wanted to know what the fans truly think. Would you like to play in the ACC? Or, do you like the independent status with NBC and some traditional, permanent rivals (USC, Navy, etc) mixed in with the home and home variable opponents? Would you prefer a conference, but not ours?

curious to hear your thoughts. Thanks again and I hope I am not stepping on any toes. I will be respectful while posting on this forum.

I would rather play in a conference. Playing an extra game could be very helpfull some years.

*** My first pick would be for the Irish to play in the SEC and play the best. The South.

*** My second choice is the ACC--- Again the south.

*** I am tired of playing USC and Stanford and Navy every year. The West coast high school players are leaving California to play in the South where Men are Men and don't manicure their nails like they do in Cali.

*** Give me Clemson as a rival instead of USC.

 

[BodiTheGreat]

As several of the previous posts indicate, most ND fans would probably like to see ND retain its independence in football, because that independence is firmly rooted in ND's football history. To understand that sentiment and appreciate where it comes from, a brief recitation of some Notre Dame football history might be helpful. Back in the 1920s, a few years after Knute Rockne became ND's head coach, ND attempted to join the Big 10 conference, but was essentially blackballed by Fielding Yost, the AD at the University of Michigan, and to a lesser extent by Amos Alonzo Stagg, the AD at the University of Chicago. Yost's objections to ND becoming a member of the Big 10 were fueled in part by some bad blood resulting from the first major football upset that ND had pulled off a few years earlier, the defeat of UM in 1909, and by Yost's virulent anti-Catholic bigotry. It sounds like a ridiculous notion in modern times to hear talk of anti-Catholic bigotry, but it was very real back in those times. The Ku Klux Klan was flourishing in those days (especially in Indiana, where Notre Dame is located), spreading its anti-Catholic bigotry far and wide. The KKK considered the Pope to be worse than Kaiser Wilhelm of Germany, and Yost apparently considered ND to be nothing but a bunch of "fish mongers." Not only did Yost lead the charge against ND being able to join the Big 10 conference, he was successful in persuading the ADs at other Big 10 schools to avoid scheduling ND as a non-conference opponent. After being blackballed by Yost from joining the Big 10, Rockne looked east and west and decided ND would take on all comers, and Notre Dame's barnstorming history rose from the disappointment of being denied admission to the Big 10. The ND/USC intersectional rivalry, for example, was born from this history. ND has played USC in football every year since 1926, save for 3 years during WWII and the cancellation of the 2020 game due to the pandemic.
,
Because of that history, most ardent ND fans would like to see ND remain independent in football. The ACC has been very good for ND's basketball programs, and probably its other sport programs as well, but I am not sure it moves the needle for us in football (for recruiting, strength of schedule, finances, or otherwise). I enjoyed the pre-2020 arrangement, where we scheduled 5 ACC games each year in football. That gave us room to schedule some of our other traditional rivals. Though others here have expressed a different opinion, I can see some benefits to participating in a conference championship game, but obviously ND will need to join a conference in order for that to happen. That said, if Notre Dame finds itself in a position someday where it has no choice but to join a conference, I think the ACC is a good fit for us.

Thanks for stopping by 95Beaufain. Always nice to get a different perspective on things from fans of other programs, so long as the discussion is respectful. I have enjoyed our games with Clemson, painful as most of the games have been for the Irish. I have a lot of respect for Dabo, and his "bring your own guts" speech is a personal favorite of mine.

Good post. But I have been a huge ND fan since I was in my mothers womb--I was born in the spring of 1962 and my first memory was as an embryo (1961) when Duke beat us 37 to 13 to finish 5 and 5 under Joe Kuharich. My mother told me when I was a boy she remembered me twitching about in her womb alot during that game while she was watching the game with my Dad.
But the Irish need to stop being independent and join a southern conference where real football is played..
I would actually like the Irish to join the SEC and become a football powerhouse.

 

[Irishjohn68]

I would rather play in a conference. Playing an extra game could be very helpfull some years.

*** My first pick would be for the Irish to play in the SEC and play the best. The South.

*** My second choice is the ACC--- Again the south.

*** I am tired of playing USC and Stanford and Navy every year. The West coast high school players are leaving California to play in the South where Men are Men and don't manicure their nails like they do in Cali.

*** Give me Clemson as a rival instead of USC.

Wow!

 

[95Beaufain]

It is truly an amazing and rich history. Fans of the Irish love that history. (But of course, loving and respecting that history is one of the reasons Irish fans get accused of "living in the past.") Football was very much a regional game back in its early days. While today it is commonplace, it was very unusual back in those days for a college team to play a school from another region of the country. A big part of that was simple logistics--for example, when Notre Dame played USC out on the West coast, the team had to board a train and travel for a couple of days just to get there.

It also helped that Knute Rockne was not only a great football coach (finishing with a career record of 105-12-5, still the highest winning percentage of any head football coach), but he was also a consummate salesman. Rockne was only 30 years old when he became the head coach at Notre Dame. Perhaps owing to his youth, he quickly understood and recognized that playing big games back east meant playing in front of the best sports writers in the country, and that meant national exposure for Notre Dame's football team. Think of some of ND's big games against Army, then a national power in football, that were played in New York. That is how it came to pass that Grantland Rice, then probably the preeminent sports writer in the country, came to watch Notre Dame play Army in the Polo Grounds in 1924, providing the inspiration for his iconic "Four Horsemen" story. America in the 1920s and 30s was then very much a country of immigrants, many of them going through tough times in the middle of the Depression, and Rockne was able to tap into that as well, starting up a legion of faithful fans that came to be known as the "subway alumni." Sadly, in 1931, at the age of just 43, Rockne died in a plane crash. Perhaps not coincidentally, he was flying to LA to take part in the production of a film called The Spirit of Notre Dame. In those days flying was still a somewhat dangerous activity, and Rockne's plane broke apart in flight shortly after it departed Kansas City, crashing into a field in the middle of farm country. I remember my grandfather telling me stories of how Rockne's death saddened the entire nation. I believe Rockne's funeral (attended by more than 100,000 people) was the first event ever broadcast live on national radio. That is the impact his death had on the country. Rockne is buried in a cemetery in South Bend, under a simple headstone, and many Irish fans (myself included) have made a pilgrimage there at some point in their lives to pay respect to the man that played such an important role in making Notre Dame football what it is today.

If you are really interested in learning more about Notre Dame football, there are many good books on the subject. Several years ago ESPN produced an excellent documentary on the history of Notre Dame football, called The American Game -- Notre Dame. (I find it almost funny to say that, because ESPN does not have a good reputation with many posters on this board.) The ESPN documentary still airs occasionally, but you can also stream it from their pay site.

Hopefully once this pandemic is over you can visit South Bend someday for a game with your beloved Tigers. Win or lose, I know you will enjoy the experience.

This post is incredible. I’m interested to learn more about the era of Rockne and all those greats. I think all of us Clemson fans and graduates selfishly want ND football in the ACC. At the same time, I hope you always honor your past.

 

[95Beaufain]

Thank for stopping by our humble abode. We hope you enjoy your stay.

I pretty much agree (feels odd) with everything said above about the ND-ACC relationship, it is a good contractual relationship but I don't want it to be a marriage. I'll add:

- 'Exposure' in crucial regions such as Atlanta, Miami, and Virginia is vital for our future recruiting as the midwest does not produce the talent it did back in our golden age. In return those programs get another big game often the featured night game.

- But I am quite concerned that Disney-ESPN owns too much and controls too much of college football. Moreso now that they have chosen to become a political platform.

- There are a lot of core ACC members who are basketball first schools. The 2020 season showed how the week to week with them pales in comparison to playing football schools ND has a lot of history with (Navy, Stanford, Michigan State and others).

I am very interested in Clemson's ascendancy about 6 years ago. Do you dwell on the Rivals Clemson board on the regular or an independent site?

I read a good bit on our Rivals site but have recently found The Athletic has a great Clemson beat writer. Their coverage is great.

 

[burmafrd1943]

Good post. But I have been a huge ND fan since I was in my mothers womb--I was born in the spring of 1962 and my first memory was as an embryo (1961) when Duke beat us 37 to 13 to finish 5 and 5 under Joe Kuharich. My mother told me when I was a boy she remembered me twitching about in her womb alot during that game while she was watching the game with my Dad.
But the Irish need to stop being independent and join a southern conference where real football is played..
I would actually like the Irish to join the SEC and become a football powerhouse.

You claim to be such a great fan but you understand NOTHING about Notre Dame.

not going to waste my time on someone who is so completely blind.

 

[BodiTheGreat]

You claim to be such a great fan but you understand NOTHING about Notre Dame.

not going to waste my time on someone who is so completely blind.

Chill dude. It is just a football message board. Oh, and you did just waste your time on me.

 

[burmafrd1943]

Chill dude. It is just a football message board. Oh, and you did just waste your time on me.

Why don't you go to a place better suited for your kind of 'Fan'

Say Michigan....

Or since you have the ability to not notice important things and so on

Penn State.

You would fit right in with the eternal JoePa fans...

 

[Irishjohn68]

Why don't you go to a place better suited for your kind of 'Fan'

Say Michigan....

Or since you have the ability to not notice important things and so on

Penn State.

You would fit right in with the eternal JoePa fans...

Michigan didn’t want him either.

 

[95Beaufain]

To all of you who took the time to respond, I truly appreciate it. I also got a bit of a kick out of the back and forth between Irish supporters. We all have disagreements. It’s what makes this a forum for independent thought and expression, so long as restricted to the topic of Notre Dame athletics.
We at Clemson have always respected Notre Dame. We had great games in 1977 and 1977, both of which I was an infant during. It was nice to get the chance to play in 2015, despite the weather and the tragedy that Friday before involving the four fans who perished in the airplane crash. At our seats in the West Zone this was a big topic as several Tiger boosters were flying into the airport minutes before the tragedy.
I was glad to finally get clarification that the NBC deal does not pay as well as a conference package. You guys would be shocked at how many people outside of Irish nation who get this wrong.
I had a blast with some guys I met in Dallas before and after the 2018 playoff game. Really cool folks that were good sports and great fans. Good luck to the Irish

 

[BodiTheGreat]

Why don't you go to a place better suited for your kind of 'Fan'

Say Michigan....

Or since you have the ability to not notice important things and so on

Penn State.

You would fit right in with the eternal JoePa fans...

Ha, there you go wasting your time on me again.
I am the GREATEST Notre Dame fan who ever graced this fantastic planet ! Deal with it !

 

[Ara64]

Fun reading your toying with those guys Bodster. Stay cool and safe.

 

[burmafrd1943]

Fun reading your toying with those guys Bodster. Stay cool and safe.

go crawl back under your rock with the other troll.

 

[burmafrd1943]

Ha, there you go wasting your time on me again.
I am the GREATEST Notre Dame fan who ever graced this fantastic planet ! Deal with it !

wow you really think your **** doesn't stink?

so arrogant that you don't realize 95% of us are laughing AT YOU.